Warhippy Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 7 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: Guess which party leader said he wouldn't reduce immigration? He also in 2013/2014 was behind the push to break 250k a year only to then a few short years later claim that immigration was bad while also doing nothing about it. Love me some political double speak 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 3 hours ago, 4petesake said: OK let’s forget all the deflecting for a minute. For arguments sake let’s take the average OAS payment before supplements of approximately $700 per month over 2 years. That’s $16,800 that the Conservatives want to lift from a senior’s wallet that Trudeau stopped from happening and you’re not sure how it actually helps seniors? You’re just pissing on a senior’s back and telling him it’s a warm tropical mist if you keep pretending that’s not a big deal while people are claiming that seniors are eating cat food under Trudeau. I don’t think a senior who makes $140,000 per year is going to miss that extra $714 per month. Also, it was only for a 2 year period. These people are not the ones eating the catfood. I’m pretty sure you can afford fine dining and sushi if you are making upwards of $12,000 per month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 5 hours ago, RupertKBD said: But haven't you been saying all along that he's as good as elected already? Maybe he should make it his job.... I would be totally in to Trudeau resigning tomorrow and the Liberals calling an election next week. That would make my entire year really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 23 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: I was in Canada. Some meatheads in a car drove past me, threw half a cup of Tim's (wasn't hot) and yelled "Hong Kong go fuck your mom". I could see the ladies in the car laughing at me when I turned around. I think I was 12. I shouldn't take that personally, right? @The Arrogant Worms is telling me it's not racism, it's called fun. Right? That was out and out racism and I'm sorry to hear of it. T.A.W. was making a different point while talking about boys wearing blackface years ago. I do not agree with him (in that particular case anyway - I most often do agree with him) but I can see what he was aiming at. Times change. Practices change. Maybe not fast enough, but they do change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 30 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: Guess which party leader said he wouldn't reduce immigration? Nice hair though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I don’t think a senior who makes $140,000 per year is going to miss that extra $714 per month. Also, it was only for a 2 year period. These people are not the ones eating the catfood. I’m pretty sure you can afford fine dining and sushi if you are making upwards of $12,000 per month. How many people over 65 are making $140k a year? Not many. As for me that $700 pays my grocery bill and yes I would miss that. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 7 minutes ago, Satchmo said: That was out and out racism and I'm sorry to hear of it. T.A.W. was making a different point while talking about boys wearing blackface years ago. I do not agree with him (in that particular case anyway - I most often do agree with him) but I can see what he was aiming at. Times change. Practices change. Maybe not fast enough, but they do change. I don't think he understands this part. What was okay fifty years ago might not be okay today. What's okay today might not be okay tomorrow. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 3 hours ago, Optimist Prime said: As you pointed out, and I like to think it is because of pressure to do more, like a 30k guaranteed income by 2030, this government has increased the OAS and supplement to seniors in every year, recently 10% increases, which as you said has pushed more and more seniors towards that 30k mark by 2030. There are some seniors who are still facing incredible poverty however and those builders of Canada, housewives, widows and widowers, the people who did what now call 'gig work' for most of their lives, those seniors are literally eating catfood because they can't afford a full pantry. You are not alone though, Conservatives from coast to coast don't mind if anyone's gramma starves, and will point to completely unrelated things as a justification: they should have invested better with the ten cents they had left over paycheck to paycheck. They should have taken steven harper up on it when he pointed out the incredible opportunity to invest when the market crashed. But most importantly is the unspoken part: that old broke bitch should have stayed with her abusive hubby like the good lord intended, rather than leave the security of his income bubble. We talk about historic systemic racism, and by and large MOST Canadians get it, even Pierre Poilievre, I would imagine agrees, but when you talk about historic mysogeny and sexist policies mostly introduced by religious interference in the lives of Canadians, there is a staggering silence from the right. When I know I have a conservative audience and i need an opening joke, I can always go back again and again to the trough of generally what I call 'a womans place'. Gets the old white dudes smiling and leaves them unprepared for a serious chat about equality. I am going off topic now, but yeah, this government has moved most seniors closer to the 30k minimum income suggestion over the past while which is quite literally the least we can do for the predominantly old women who suffer in poverty at advanced age. As for Trudeau's plans for things not related to this, or his future plans for this: my policy paper was just barely voted down on the convention floor, but it made some headway, who knows, maybe it will gain traction from the grave, or someone else with a slightly better model will push further. By your admission, there aren't very many seniors who will be below the 30k mark by 2030: why not just help gramma out with a top up? I also want to say the obvious: I am not coming at you, in fact I respect your opinions and thoughts here on the forums quite a bit, just where we disagree, I see a chance to reply to you and speak to a wider audience. No offense is ever intended. Cheers to you. Cheers my friend. I appreciate your response and I know you come from a good place. Unlike some other posters who simply want to one up me and get in a gotcha to pad their egos, you actually spend the time to post a well thought out response that at least answers the questions asked. My parents aren’t around anymore. But when they were they had real estate that kept them going into retirement. That was the way to go in the 1970’s and 1980’s. If you simply had bought a couple of properties back then your retirement was set for life. I know alot of seniors today didn’t follow this strategy so they don’t have that same net worth. They indeed need to eat catfood in order to survive. I believe I already mentioned that I did vote for Trudeau in 2015. So when you tell me that I’m a typical conservative that’s not actually true. I have voted Liberal most of my adult life. Voted for Chretien, Paul Martin, etc. So you have me pegged all wrong. The country today is broken and needs to be fixed. People can say what they want, that it’s not Trudeau’s fault. That PP is the boogeyman and will destroy this country. It all falls on deaf ears. The majority of Canadians want a change. CFF is not the majority. They are a very small minority with a loud voice. Most everyone I know in Vancouver wants a change in government. Even my brother in law who’s favourite politician ever was Trudeau’s father wants a change. If Trudeau steps down tomorrow and gets someone else who is competent to run the party then things might change. The Liberals might have a chance. But Trudeau’s ego is too big for him to step down. So unfortunately he will be taking his party down with the ship. Edited January 11 by Elias Pettersson 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 i dont want to get into the racism part of the conversation today. Though, i dont think AW deserves the level chastisement. MK experience sounds like a lot of what my wife and fam had to deal with when they emigrated to Canada, Toronto. It's awful and i am sorry that happened and still does. However, can we drop the ageism stuff? Sharpshooter pointed it out a little bit ago. It happens a lot on this site and its not cool. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 20 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I would be totally in to Trudeau resigning tomorrow and the Liberals calling an election next week. That would make my entire year really. Fair enough. But that has nothing to do with what I posted.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 15 minutes ago, Spur1 said: How many people over 65 are making $140k a year? Not many. As for me that $700 pays my grocery bill and yes I would miss that. Shhh... you're letting the facts get in the way of his carefully crafted narrative... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Spur1 said: How many people over 65 are making $140k a year? Not many. As for me that $700 pays my grocery bill and yes I would miss that. So if you are not making $140,000 per year then the change in OAS from age 65 to age 67 doesn’t help you at all. You are still collecting your full OAS payment. Which was my whole point. Edited January 11 by Elias Pettersson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 59 minutes ago, Spur1 said: The housing crisis has been in the making for over 40 years. Mostly caused by local governments. First they zoned out trailer parks because they didn’t want trailer trash in their neighbourhoods. Then they started putting minimum house sizes on developments. Lastly they added more restrictions and regulations to discourage people building their own homes. 40 years ago a 1000 sq ft house was considered big. Now it is considered small. Now tiny houses are making a comeback. Remembering my builder at our site in Sooke in 2009. he had to build a 300 thousand dollar bridge over a tiny creek in order to get permission to build his first 8 strata houses on the other side of the creek. I am not opposed to making him contribute but the entire cost of that bridge was on his back: he built 8 units that year. This of course was a year after the housing crash of 2008. He started trying to get the project going in 2006 and took the red tape three years to get to the point he could start. Those of us who were the first 8 buyers got kind of lucky in that we made out well in the last two years after the prices skyrocketed, but initially we were paying for a 300k bridge on a city street, on top of our cost of homes and land. There is now almost 100 units from various builders and on various lots on that side of the bridge but only the first couple dozen covered the entire cost of that bridge. Edit: thinking back on it, it took that guy 12 years to finish his entire strata build of 28 units, citing never fully recovering from the housing crisis of 2008, along with the high costs of government imposed 'extras' for each phase he wanted to build. Most of the roads on that side of the bridge, all the street lights, the bridge itself, and a conservation minded half km's of city walking trails were all on his dime as city imposed conditions to his build site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Cheers my friend. I appreciate your response and I know you come from a good place. Unlike some other posters who simply want to one up me and get in a gotcha to pad their egos, you actually spend the time to post a well thought out response that at least answers the questions asked. My parents aren’t around anymore. But when they were they had real estate that kept them going into retirement. That was the way to go in the 1970’s and 1980’s. If you simply had bought a couple of properties back then your retirement was set for life. I know alot of seniors today didn’t follow this strategy so they don’t have that same net worth. They indeed need to eat catfood in order to survive. I believe I already mentioned that I did vote for Trudeau in 2015. So when you tell me that I’m a typical conservative that’s not actually true. I have voted Liberal most of my adult life. Voted for Chretien, Paul Martin, etc. So you have me pegged all wrong. The country today is broken and needs to be fixed. People can say what they want, that it’s not Trudeau’s fault. That PP is the boogeyman and will destroy this country. It all falls on deaf ears. The majority of Canadians want a change. CFF is not the majority. They are a very small minority with a loud voice. Most everyone I know in Vancouver wants a change in government. Even my brother in law who’s favourite politician ever was Trudeau’s father wants a change. If Trudeau steps down tomorrow and gets someone else who is competent to run the party then things might change. The Liberals might have a chance. But Trudeau’s ego is too big for him to step down. So unfortunately he will be taking his party down with the ship. Now that was a thoughtful post. More thoughtful than a few I've seen. I have to point out though that I don't always reply to your posts in an attempt to boost my ego. I'm just attempting to deflate yours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 3 hours ago, Optimist Prime said: To be clear, the exact instance of an old lady buying catfood because it was cheaper than meat was in the late 2000's. I can't speak to any modern era folks, but I am absolutely sure it happens. I know an old dude who has very little CPP as he was self employed his whole life, which blew up on him in the 90's. In his 80s now he has less than 18k a year income with no life savings and he has sold everything he can spare at this point. He isn't eating catfood because folks who know him help him out. There are seniors with less than 2k a month to live on in Canada in 2024. That is shameful. That was my point about the catfood thing. TBH OP, I remember hearing this same story back in the 80's. My mom was on the HEU bargaining committee and she came back from a meeting with that same story. It was either told by Ken Georgetti, or Jim Sinclair. (Can't remember which. My mom was fond of quoting both) I was skeptical at the time and I'm skeptical now for one simple reason: There's nothing cheap about cat food, or dog food. I'd argue that if the old lady wanted meat that badly, she could have found something like Spam, or even tuna, for less than a can of 9 Lives.... All of that being said, most pensioners aren't "rich". My parents both had decent paying, union jobs with pensions that when added to their CPP allowed them to live more or less comfortably.....but they weren't jetting off to the Caribbean every winter, nor were they at the cottage in the summer. They spent both seasons, as well as (Spring and Autumn) in their Condo in PG.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 minute ago, RupertKBD said: TBH OP, I remember hearing this same story back in the 80's. My mom was on the HEU bargaining committee and she came back from a meeting with that same story. It was either told by Ken Georgetti, or Jim Sinclair. (Can't remember which. My mom was fond of quoting both) I was skeptical at the time and I'm skeptical now for one simple reason: There's nothing cheap about cat food, or dog food. I'd argue that if the old lady wanted meat that badly, she could have found something like Spam, or even tuna, for less than a can of 9 Lives.... All of that being said, most pensioners aren't "rich". My parents both had decent paying, union jobs with pensions that when added to their CPP allowed them to live more or less comfortably.....but they weren't jetting off to the Caribbean every winter, nor were they at the cottage in the summer. They spent both seasons, as well as (Spring and Autumn) in their Condo in PG.... I am not asking for seniors to live RICH. I am asking that Seniors living below the poverty line be topped up to be NOT POOR. All the rest is rhetorical window dressing. Should an old widow or divorcee live on 18k a year? I say no. that is my only point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: I am not asking for seniors to live RICH. I am asking that Seniors living below the poverty line be topped up to be NOT POOR. All the rest is rhetorical window dressing. Should an old widow or divorcee live on 18k a year? I say no. that is my only point. I agree. My point was more about what others ITT have been saying about seniors making all this money. It's certainly not the case for the majority, AFAIK. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Yeah, I am very fortunate to be looked after by veterans affairs now that this government changed the policy from a low one time cash out to a lifetime medical pension. Remember when Trudeau said we were asking for more than the government could give? Everyone was mad at him..but once they got the Harper era laws changed they could then give more and they did. Anyways, even i will take a dip as the lifetime pension cuts by 20% when I am age 65. I have to plan for it and prepare, but also at that time I will apply for CPP which could add back maybe 10%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 hour ago, Miss Korea said: I was in Canada. Some meatheads in a car drove past me, threw half a cup of Tim's (wasn't hot) and yelled "Hong Kong go fuck your mom". I could see the ladies in the car laughing at me when I turned around. I think I was 12. I shouldn't take that personally, right? @The Arrogant Worms is telling me it's not racism, it's called fun. Right? Are you stupid? I have never said anything like that. I grew up when racism was horrible in Cowichan. Luckily I had parents that raised me right and taught me not to judge people on the colour of their skin or their ethnic background or what job they did for a living. The same values I have taught my son. It's terrible was you went thru but trying to age shame me not know anything about me is beyond comprehension. I could tell you far worse stories that I have heard about my wife's Grandmother. Are you drunk or do you just hate everything? Holy fuck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 35 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Cheers my friend. I appreciate your response and I know you come from a good place. Unlike some other posters who simply want to one up me and get in a gotcha to pad their egos, you actually spend the time to post a well thought out response that at least answers the questions asked. My parents aren’t around anymore. But when they were they had real estate that kept them going into retirement. That was the way to go in the 1970’s and 1980’s. If you simply had bought a couple of properties back then your retirement was set for life. I know alot of seniors today didn’t follow this strategy so they don’t have that same net worth. They indeed need to eat catfood in order to survive. I believe I already mentioned that I did vote for Trudeau in 2015. So when you tell me that I’m a typical conservative that’s not actually true. I have voted Liberal most of my adult life. Voted for Chretien, Paul Martin, etc. So you have me pegged all wrong. The country today is broken and needs to be fixed. People can say what they want, that it’s not Trudeau’s fault. That PP is the boogeyman and will destroy this country. It all falls on deaf ears. The majority of Canadians want a change. CFF is not the majority. They are a very small minority with a loud voice. Most everyone I know in Vancouver wants a change in government. Even my brother in law who’s favourite politician ever was Trudeau’s father wants a change. If Trudeau steps down tomorrow and gets someone else who is competent to run the party then things might change. The Liberals might have a chance. But Trudeau’s ego is too big for him to step down. So unfortunately he will be taking his party down with the ship. Step 1: be born on third base... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 9 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: Yeah, I am very fortunate to be looked after by veterans affairs now that this government changed the policy from a low one time cash out to a lifetime medical pension. Remember when Trudeau said we were asking for more than the government could give? Everyone was mad at him..but once they got the Harper era laws changed they could then give more and they did. Anyways, even i will take a dip as the lifetime pension cuts by 20% when I am age 65. I have to plan for it and prepare, but also at that time I will apply for CPP which could add back maybe 10%. Veterans affairs really looked after my Dad in his old age. I talked to them a lot as my Dad could barely here in his 90's He still had shrapnel in his leg from being wounded in Korea. Even South Korea sent masks to all the Korean vets in Canada who were still living during Covid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said: Step 1: be born on third base... Funny how these same people mock Justin for being a "silver spooner".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: I don’t think a senior who makes $140,000 per year is going to miss that extra $714 per month. Also, it was only for a 2 year period. These people are not the ones eating the catfood. I’m pretty sure you can afford fine dining and sushi if you are making upwards of $12,000 per month. Sorry, have no idea what you’re talking about. What does a senior making $140k/yr have to do with Conservatives taking away $16,800 over two years from every senior? Of course 140k guy isn’t affected but the average senior who needs it most surely is. I don’t know why you are arguing this - one party tried to take from seniors while the other gave it back. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 We interrupt your partisan wrangling with this breaking news: Quote Former federal NDP leader Ed Broadbent dead at 87 Former NDP leader Ed Broadbent delivers remarks at the start of the Progress summit in Ottawa, Friday April 1, 2016. Broadbent has died at age 87, says the institute he founded. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Adrian Wyld By The Canadian Press Posted January 11, 2024 12:04 pm. Last Updated January 11, 2024 1:26 pm. Ed Broadbent, the former leader of the federal New Democrats, has died. He was 87. In sharing the news of his passing on Thursday, the Ottawa think tank he founded and which bears his name, called him a “fierce champion for ordinary Canadians.” “Ed devoted decades of his life to fighting for justice and equality in Canada and around the world,” reads the written statement from the Broadbent Institute. Current NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh said Broadbent “was a lifelong champion of our movement and our party.” “He dedicated his considerable gifts to the project of social democracy, never wavering in his belief that we must build a Canada that serves everyone — not just the rich and powerful.” Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said in a statement that “Canada is better off” due to Broadbent’s “selfless service.” “An advocate for equality and champion for justice, his commitment to helping others never wavered. He leaves behind an incredible legacy — one that will, no doubt, continue to inspire people across the country,” he said. Broadbent served as a member of Parliament for a riding in his hometown of Oshawa, Ont., 21 years, and was the leader of the federal NDP for 14 years, from 1975 to 1989. He briefly returned to the House of Commons as the MP for Ottawa Centre from 2004 to 2006. His leadership era saw him debate four different prime ministers: Pierre Trudeau, Joe Clark, John Turner and Brian Mulroney. The party had 16 MPs in the 1974 election. Under his leadership, the NDP increased that number to 26 in 1979 and 32 in 1980. Singh said in his statement it’s impossible to travel across Canada and “not meet people who were touched by Ed’s compassion, commitment, and fierce intelligence.” “He never lost sight of who we fight for. He was connected in a deep way to the values of working-class Canadians and their struggles.” Singh also praised Broadbent for his generosity, saying his advice and encouragement helped him “tremendously” when he was first elected to lead the NDP. “I have often said that Ed was who I wanted to be when I grew up. He taught me about leadership and how to turn political principle into actions that helped improve the lives of Canadians,” Singh said. The Broadbent Institute’s statement quoted from his 2023 book, “Seeking Social Democracy,” which the institute said leaves “an enduring vision and his hopes for what is to be done to build the good society for today and the future.” “To be humane, societies must be democratic — and, to be democratic, every person must be afforded the economic and social rights necessary for their individual flourishing,” Broadbent wrote. https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/01/11/former-federal-ndp-leader-ed-broadbent-dead-at-87/ 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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