Popular Post Bob Long Posted January 12 Popular Post Share Posted January 12 So @Wiggums just to begin, not trying to 'attack' you or call you out, just want to provide some info we can discuss. This is a good quick overview of where this "parents rights" movement comes from. If you don't like CBC let me know and I can find you others: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/parental-rights-movement-in-canada-1.6976230 This all comes out of evangelical homeschooling movement in the US, and its evolved into its current form that Polievere and Scott Moe (among others) are using as a political wedge issue: https://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/responses/evangelical-homeschooling-and-the-development-of-family-values Its a scare tactic. No teacher has the power to change your kids sex, or provide pills, etc. That would be a criminal act. Where the harm is in all this is kids that don't have a safe home life. Many gay kids do not have a safe home environment. If they come out to an unsafe parent, they may be headed for verbal and physical abuse, all the way to the really destructive 'pray the gay away' type of abuse. Its a really unfortunate, quite destructive, cheap political stunt. No one is, or can, take away your rights as a parent under our Charter. Its not something Trudeau or anyone else could do without changing our constitution. 1 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: "Minor child"? What?....as opposed to a "Major child"? Yes a child is a minor not a major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I don’t have a camp. I have a home. Child safety is a completely different situation. That’s when the government steps in. That has nothing to do with teachers teaching math and science. Kids don’t need teachers to protect them from their parents. If a child needs to speak to someone because they are too afraid to speak to their parents, then the school principal needs to inform the parents of the situation so things can be fixed at home. Teachers aren’t paid to be counselors nor do they have the expertise for that. The principal of that school along with the parents can figure out how to get the child the appropriate counseling they need. this is an obtuse and unrealistic view. You really don't seem to be aware of the good that gay-straight alliances do in schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I don’t have a camp. I have a home. Child safety is a completely different situation. That’s when the government steps in. That has nothing to do with teachers teaching math and science. Kids don’t need teachers to protect them from their parents. If a child needs to speak to someone because they are too afraid to speak to their parents, then the school principal needs to inform the parents of the situation so things can be fixed at home. Teachers aren’t paid to be counselors nor do they have the expertise for that. The principal of that school along with the parents can figure out how to get the child the appropriate counseling they need. A lot of times its teachers and school officials that are the ones who find out about children who are/have been abused and neglected by their parents. Where are kids supposed to go f their parents are deeply in the anti-LGBTQ camp? There are a lot of kids who essentially become dead to their parents when they come out. We all know which camp those parents are in, and the tend to be C and C. Christian and CONservative. Exactly the folks who are bitching about this the loudest. Who are these kids supposed to go to for help? Edited January 12 by the destroyer of worlds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 9 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: "Minor child"? What?....as opposed to a "Major child"? @Bob Long has a 25 year old one... I joke Jimmy, just thought I do a call back of the cell phone ribbing i gave ya 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, King Heffy said: What happens when the child has good reason to be afraid of their parents and that conversation between principal and child endangers the child? If there is child abuse involved in the home then the school can inform the RCMP who can get child services involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 14 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: It’s not about principle. It’s about common sense. If kids don’t have a safe home then the government can step in. It’s not the schools or teachers responsibility to keep kids safe from their parents. Their job is to teach math and science. You couldn't be more wrong. Schools are required to report suspected parental abuse. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: If there is child abuse involved in the home then the school can inform the RCMP who can get child services involved. except the gay kids will no longer trust the teachers not to tell the parents. Is it clear for you now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: this is an obtuse and unrealistic view. You really don't seem to be aware of the good that gay-straight alliances do in schools. Schools are for learning math and science. If a child is being abused then child services needs to be involved. The school can certainly make the referral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yes a child is a minor not a major. Thanks for clearing that up, Captain.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Wiggums said: Of course I can Alfie. The court even tells the parents what to call their child. Fun https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5269512 https://genderreport.ca/bc-father-in-prison-for-speaking-out-about-daughters-medical-transition/ 6 months in jail to boot Again, facts are important. Father was not legal guardian or full time parent. Medical professionals involved from the beginning. Seems ya left that part out Bowden also ordered the father to acknowledge and refer to his son using only male pronouns throughout the course of the court proceedings. Bowden was in violation of a publication ban on the court case in which the names of the professionals treating his child were protected from being disclosed and he was not authorized to speak about the case or circumstances surrounding the case. Edited January 12 by Warhippy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, RupertKBD said: You couldn't be more wrong. Schools are required to report suspected parental abuse. Sure. A referral to the RCMP or child services is completely different than actually getting involved in the child’s life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 One of the most apt quotes when it comes to this thread. Just change anti-Semite to conservative. Or don't, idk? Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. Jean-Paul Sartre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Wiggums said: Of course I can Alfie. The court even tells the parents what to call their child. Fun https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5269512 https://genderreport.ca/bc-father-in-prison-for-speaking-out-about-daughters-medical-transition/ 6 months in jail to boot You will never convince me to see that story in the same way you do. Nor will I never convince you to see it the same way I do. If you read between the lines of the CBC story though does it not seem that the mother was on the child's side? Does her opinion not count? If you read the actual lines of the second story he was charged with contravening a publication ban; not for his beliefs. Edited January 12 by Satchmo typos never end 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 16 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: It’s not about principle. It’s about common sense. If kids don’t have a safe home then the government can step in. It’s not the schools or teachers responsibility to keep kids safe from their parents. Their job is to teach math and science. 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: If there is child abuse involved in the home then the school can inform the RCMP who can get child services involved. I'm not sure what your views are here. Is it or is it not necessary for schools to assist with keeping kids safe from their parents in your world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 12 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I don’t have a camp. I have a home. Child safety is a completely different situation. That’s when the government steps in. That has nothing to do with teachers teaching math and science. Kids don’t need teachers to protect them from their parents. If a child needs to speak to someone because they are too afraid to speak to their parents, then the school principal needs to inform the parents of the situation so things can be fixed at home. Teachers aren’t paid to be counselors nor do they have the expertise for that. The principal of that school along with the parents can figure out how to get the child the appropriate counseling they need. Doesn't address what happens when a child doesn't feel safe in their own home or speaking to their parents which was the exact question and statement I asked but ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: Sure. A referral to the RCMP or child services is completely different than actually getting involved in the child’s life. Get involved in the child's life, how? I have no idea what you're referring to..... ....or are you still promoting that bullshit narrative that kids can get hormone blockers from their teachers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggums Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Warhippy said: Again, facts are important was in violation of a publication ban on the court case in which the names of the professionals treating his child were protected from being disclosed and he was not authorized to speak about the case or circumstances surrounding the case. Yep. So you gonna apologize for calling me a liar? Probably not Carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Schools are for learning math and science. If a child is being abused then child services needs to be involved. The school can certainly make the referral. says you. In fact its much more than that for many kids. You don't seem to understand that kids won't trust schools anymore. Or maybe you do understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: except the gay kids will no longer trust the teachers not to tell the parents. Is it clear for you now? No it’s not clear actually. What you are insinuating is that the child needs to secretly converse with the teacher and keep the parents from knowing what is going on. Not sure how that is going to fix the problem long term. If anything it would make things worse for the child. If the abusive parents found out that the child was secretly talking to the teachers behind their backs then the abuse at home could get even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Just now, RupertKBD said: Get involved in the child's life, how? I have no idea what you're referring to..... ....or are you still promoting that bullshit narrative that kids can get hormone blockers from their teachers? I had a pretty great teacher in high school who I definitely considered a mentor and could ask things that definitely didn't fit in his job description. Without him, I probably wouldn't have graduated. Nothing wrong with a teacher positively influencing a child. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said: One of the most apt quotes when it comes to this thread. Just change anti-Semite to conservative. Or don't, idk? Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. Jean-Paul Sartre So Conservatives are now the equivalent of an anti-Semite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Doesn't address what happens when a child doesn't feel safe in their own home or speaking to their parents which was the exact question and statement I asked but ok this is what they either don't understand, or just don't care about. This approach breaks the trust a kid has with a school. They won't say anything. But maybe thats what certain religious types are hoping for? their kid should stay in the closet, maybe thats what this is? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: No it’s not clear actually. What you are insinuating is that the child needs to secretly converse with the teacher and keep the parents from knowing what is going on. Not sure how that is going to fix the problem long term. If anything it would make things worse for the child. If the abusive parents found out that the child was secretly talking to the teachers behind their backs then the abuse at home could get even worse. Imagine You are LGBTQ You have parents who are HARD CORE anti-LGBTQ Who do you turn to? Go 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Maybe we should all just stop and do some research into how often all this stuff we are talking about actually happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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