Elias Pettersson Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 2 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: I was also under the impression that you were pro parents' rights, which is just a buzzword for being anti-trans. I thought you mentioned it somewhere in that flurry of posts. No? No, what I said was that teachers should teach and parents should parent, and that parents have a right to know what their children are up to in school. I have several relatives that are teachers so I know exactly what they go through. I am literally having dinner with my teacher cousin tomorrow so I am definitely going to bring this up at dinner and throw all these questions at him that have been thrown at me tonight. I will report back on Sunday in regard to what he says. He's been a teacher for almost 25 years. Also, I beg to differ that a parent who wants to know what is going on with their kids at school is anti-trans. Like what the fuck does anti-trans have to do with that? What if the kid is a straight white boy? Like seriously man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Like what the fuck does anti-trans have to do with that? Literally the entire point of the ignorant "parental rights" movement. It's not about how your kid is doing in math. No teachers are "hiding" math scores from parents. The only person who should be informing their parents of how someone identifies, is the kid themselves. If they don't feel safe doing that, in NO WAY should a teacher inform the parents on their own. That you can't see how twisted and harmful that could be...I don't know what to tell you. 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 12 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: No, what I said was that teachers should teach and parents should parent, and that parents have a right to know what their children are up to in school. I have several relatives that are teachers so I know exactly what they go through. I am literally having dinner with my teacher cousin tomorrow so I am definitely going to bring this up at dinner and throw all these questions at him that have been thrown at me tonight. I will report back on Sunday in regard to what he says. He's been a teacher for almost 25 years. Also, I beg to differ that a parent who wants to know what is going on with their kids at school is anti-trans. Like what the fuck does anti-trans have to do with that? What if the kid is a straight white boy? Like seriously man... You had me going for a second. Thought maybe I really did confuse you with one of the other ones. Nope. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 1 minute ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said: You had me going for a second. Thought maybe I really did confuse you with one of the other ones. Nope. You also had me fooled. I thought I was dealing with someone on my level. Nope... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 13 minutes ago, aGENT said: Literally the entire point of the ignorant "parental rights" movement. It's not about how your kid is doing in math. No teachers are "hiding" math scores from parents. The only person who should be informing their parents of how someone identifies, is the kid themselves. If they don't feel safe doing that, in NO WAY should a teacher inform the parents on their own. That you can't see how twisted and harmful that could be...I don't know what to tell you. So the kid tells the teacher. The kid doesn't feel "safe" telling the parent. Okay, what is next? Also, when does the parent find out there is a problem? Do they get a phone call from a stranger telling them the kid isn't ever coming back home? Is the issue hidden from the parents indefinitely? Keep this going. I'm going to have a great conversation with my cousin tomorrow. I might be there all night... Edited January 13 by Elias Pettersson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: So the kid tells the teacher. The kid doesn't feel "safe" telling the parent. Okay, what is next? Also, when does the parent find out there is a problem? Do they get a phone call from a stranger telling them the kid isn't ever coming back home? Is the issue hidden from the parents indefinitely? Keep this going. I'm going to have a great conversation with my cousin tomorrow. I might be there all night... What's next? The teacher supports the kid and makes them feel safe at school. WTF are you going on about? What "problem"...Jesus. Edited January 13 by aGENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 6 minutes ago, aGENT said: What's next? The teacher supports the kid and makes them feel safe at school. WTF are you going on about? Okay, so I am assuming the kid goes back home at some point? If so, this conversation between the kid and teacher is totally confidential and the parent has no clue what is happening? Correct? So, the kid tells the teacher that they are trans. The kid feels safe at school because the teacher supports the kid while the parents would obviously have a hissy fit and do something stupid. I just want to get my facts straight for tomorrow night as I have to explain this exact scenario to my cousin who is literally in charge of over 500 kids. Let me get back to you on this on Sunday. Should be fun... Oh shoot, I just remembered, my cousin's wife is also a teacher. I had a brain fart and forgot. So I'll get two sides tomorrow. Thanks... Edited January 13 by Elias Pettersson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Okay, so I am assuming the kid goes back home at some point? If so, this conversation between the kid and teacher is totally confidential and the parent has no clue what is happening? Correct? So, the kid tells the teacher that they are trans. The kid feels safe at school because the teacher supports the kid while the parents would obviously have a hissy fit and do something stupid. I just want to get my facts straight for tomorrow night as I have to explain this exact scenario to my cousin who is literally in charge of over 500 kids. Let me get back to you on this on Sunday. Should be fun... Oh shoot, I just remembered, my cousin's wife is also a teacher. I had a brain fart and forgot. So I'll get two sides tomorrow. Thanks... While you're at it, why don't ask some of your gay friends if they think confidentiality in school is necessary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 31 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: No, what I said was that teachers should teach and parents should parent, and that parents have a right to know what their children are up to in school. I have several relatives that are teachers so I know exactly what they go through. I am literally having dinner with my teacher cousin tomorrow so I am definitely going to bring this up at dinner and throw all these questions at him that have been thrown at me tonight. I will report back on Sunday in regard to what he says. He's been a teacher for almost 25 years. Also, I beg to differ that a parent who wants to know what is going on with their kids at school is anti-trans. Like what the fuck does anti-trans have to do with that? What if the kid is a straight white boy? Like seriously man... 9 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: So the kid tells the teacher. The kid doesn't feel "safe" telling the parent. Okay, what is next? Also, when does the parent find out there is a problem? Do they get a phone call from a stranger telling them the kid isn't ever coming back home? Is the issue hidden from the parents indefinitely? Keep this going. I'm going to have a great conversation with my cousin tomorrow. I might be there all night... What a heavy discussion to have over dinner. These talks are for after dinner. I'm not sure where you are going with this hypothetical. The parent' rights march/movement is completely geared against any type of sexual/gender diversity in school. The school system in Canada does a lot more than just teach geometry and physics. And these angry parents don't care about that. They're drawing the line at sex/gender. That's what makes them anti-trans. Honestly if you want to know how your straight white boy is doing at school, teachers will tell you. But if he wants to use different pronouns, why is a teacher compelled to disclose that info? "Because our rights as parents are being violated"? 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: Okay, so I am assuming the kid goes back home at some point? If so, this conversation between the kid and teacher is totally confidential and the parent has no clue what is happening? Correct? So, the kid tells the teacher that they are trans. The kid feels safe at school because the teacher supports the kid while the parents would obviously have a hissy fit and do something stupid. I just want to get my facts straight for tomorrow night as I have to explain this exact scenario to my cousin who is literally in charge of over 500 kids. Let me get back to you on this on Sunday. Should be fun... I hope you and your cousin have a great dinner and a great conversation. I think though you'd have to expand your sample size to get a handle on this, unless of course you're confident your cousin knows what all teachers think and how all schools function. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 2 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: What a heavy discussion to have over dinner. These talks are for after dinner. I'm not sure where you are going with this hypothetical. The parent' rights march/movement is completely geared against any type of sexual/gender diversity in school. The school system in Canada does a lot more than just teach geometry and physics. And these angry parents don't care about that. They're drawing the line at sex/gender. That's what makes them anti-trans. Honestly if you want to know how your straight white boy is doing at school, teachers will tell you. But if he wants to use different pronouns, why is a teacher compelled to disclose that info? "Because our rights as parents are being violated"? Haha, he's making pizza. Don't worry, we won't be in heavy discussion until after I've eaten his homemade pizza... I just want to know what I need to ask him. I am sure he has already dealt with this, so I probably won't be the one doing the talking. I am sure he will tell me exactly what his school policy is and what he does personally to his students if he is ever put in this position. His wife likes to talk, all teachers do, so I am sure she will also give some great feedback. I am now genuinely curious about this whole process. I want answers directly from the source. It's nice to go back and forth in this thread but I get the feeling none of you really know what is going on in a school, so I'd rather speak to a couple teachers myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 5 minutes ago, Satchmo said: I hope you and your cousin have a great dinner and a great conversation. I think though you'd have to expand your sample size to get a handle on this, unless of course you're confident your cousin knows what all teachers think and how all schools function. Yes. I just called my buddy. He wife is the principal at one of the largest public high schools on the Westside. Not gonna disclose the name as a quick google search will dox her. He didn't answer. I'm gonna call him again tomorrow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 11 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said: While you're at it, why don't ask some of your gay friends if they think confidentiality in school is necessary. Sure, I can do that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 And for the record, I will be reporting back everything. Even if I don't agree with it. I just want to know the truth. This issue is a hot button for me now... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: Yes. I just called my buddy. He wife is the principal at one of the largest public high schools on the Westside. Not gonna disclose the name as a quick google search will dox her. He didn't answer. I'm gonna call him again tomorrow... Load up. Let me know when you get to an acceptable sample size. I just wouldn't want anyone to accuse you of that 'I know a guy' stuff again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: And for the record, I will be reporting back everything. Even if I don't agree with it. I just want to know the truth. This issue is a hot button for me now... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 49 minutes ago, aGENT said: What's next? The teacher supports the kid and makes them feel safe at school. WTF are you going on about? What "problem"...Jesus. He's trying the little con trick of out talking you. That's a win for him I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 2 hours ago, Bob Long said: He's trying the little con trick of out talking you. That's a win for him I guess. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I don’t think anyone can out talk little Jimmy. He has opinions… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maninthebox Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Humanity is doomed. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Optimist Prime Posted January 13 Popular Post Share Posted January 13 Just an anecdote: When we were posted to Kingston, and I was bout to head overseas again we happened to run into a lady from Vancouver Island who I was acquainted with growing up as her dad was friends with my dad. I didn't really know her and she was gone out of my sight and life in our early teens. After catching up with her, it turned out that she came out of the closet at 13 to her family, and was immediately beaten up by her dad and literally physically kicked out of the house forever. Age 13!! She lived in and out of shelters and mostly on the street with all the ills and criminal records that might inflict on a young lady living rough. She had picked herself up by this point in life and had a truck, a full time job and decent enough sociability, however her girlfriend had just broken up with her and she was once again about to be homeless. We decided she should take the spare bedroom in our PMQ while I was gone, both to keep my wife company and to help her out. Things worked great for all, and she was in her own apartment just two months after we helped her out. She is a chef now with a long working history and a decent enough life situation. What strikes me in this argument that parents need to be informed by the school is that the teenager themselves best interests are quite literally best championed by the person themselves. If she didn't want to be outed to her parents, it would not be, in my opinion, up to her school to out her to her folks. The school would have no idea that her dad might put her in the hospital for not liking penis. For that reason I am on the side of the person who is in the care of the school. Their best interests trump a parents. I learned that from just that one friends life experience. 2 4 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 4petesake Posted January 13 Popular Post Share Posted January 13 5 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: Just an anecdote: When we were posted to Kingston, and I was bout to head overseas again we happened to run into a lady from Vancouver Island who I was acquainted with growing up as her dad was friends with my dad. I didn't really know her and she was gone out of my sight and life in our early teens. After catching up with her, it turned out that she came out of the closet at 13 to her family, and was immediately beaten up by her dad and literally physically kicked out of the house forever. Age 13!! She lived in and out of shelters and mostly on the street with all the ills and criminal records that might inflict on a young lady living rough. She had picked herself up by this point in life and had a truck, a full time job and decent enough sociability, however her girlfriend had just broken up with her and she was once again about to be homeless. We decided she should take the spare bedroom in our PMQ while I was gone, both to keep my wife company and to help her out. Things worked great for all, and she was in her own apartment just two months after we helped her out. She is a chef now with a long working history and a decent enough life situation. What strikes me in this argument that parents need to be informed by the school is that the teenager themselves best interests are quite literally best championed by the person themselves. If she didn't want to be outed to her parents, it would not be, in my opinion, up to her school to out her to her folks. The school would have no idea that her dad might put her in the hospital for not liking penis. For that reason I am on the side of the person who is in the care of the school. Their best interests trump a parents. I learned that from just that one friends life experience. The question parents should be asking themselves is why their child feels that there is not enough trust, supportr and unconditional love in the home and yet feel safe enough to share their deepest, scariest secret with their teacher. Maybe rather than attacking the school system for being supportive a touch of introspection about parenting might be in order. But hey I’m not a parent so what do I know. 2 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RupertKBD Posted January 13 Popular Post Share Posted January 13 1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said: Just an anecdote: When we were posted to Kingston, and I was bout to head overseas again we happened to run into a lady from Vancouver Island who I was acquainted with growing up as her dad was friends with my dad. I didn't really know her and she was gone out of my sight and life in our early teens. After catching up with her, it turned out that she came out of the closet at 13 to her family, and was immediately beaten up by her dad and literally physically kicked out of the house forever. Age 13!! She lived in and out of shelters and mostly on the street with all the ills and criminal records that might inflict on a young lady living rough. She had picked herself up by this point in life and had a truck, a full time job and decent enough sociability, however her girlfriend had just broken up with her and she was once again about to be homeless. We decided she should take the spare bedroom in our PMQ while I was gone, both to keep my wife company and to help her out. Things worked great for all, and she was in her own apartment just two months after we helped her out. She is a chef now with a long working history and a decent enough life situation. What strikes me in this argument that parents need to be informed by the school is that the teenager themselves best interests are quite literally best championed by the person themselves. If she didn't want to be outed to her parents, it would not be, in my opinion, up to her school to out her to her folks. The school would have no idea that her dad might put her in the hospital for not liking penis. For that reason I am on the side of the person who is in the care of the school. Their best interests trump a parents. I learned that from just that one friends life experience. The penultimate paragraph in this post reflects my feelings as well. Whether we like to admit it or not, there are parents out there who react violently to things like their kids coming out. When the schools are faced with the choice of considering the minor child's safety and "parent's rights, IMO, they should always err on the side of preserving the safety of the minor child.... 2 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 2 hours ago, 4petesake said: The question parents should be asking themselves is why their child feels that there is not enough trust, supportr and unconditional love in the home and yet feel safe enough to share their deepest, scariest secret with their teacher. Because the parents don't want to be shamed for dereliction of duty. Trust is hard to build and easily destroyed, but instead of addressing the core issue (trust), they're attacking the thing that would make them look bad (child's trust in others ahead of their parents). Plus I guess they also don't like the feeling of having their control "usurped", even though it was their own fault for absconding on their responsibility as parents. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenay Gold Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 3 hours ago, 4petesake said: The question parents should be asking themselves is why their child feels that there is not enough trust, supportr and unconditional love in the home and yet feel safe enough to share their deepest, scariest secret with their teacher. Maybe rather than attacking the school system for being supportive a touch of introspection about parenting might be in order. But hey I’m not a parent so what do I know. I am guessing that there are a lot of children these days that trust no one including teachers and parents and are just lost to drugs, despair and suicide. A very sad state of the world they live in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Eh Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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