Miss Korea Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Another quote from Dhejne criticizing people like 5: "No, the study does not show that medical transition results in suicide or suicidal ideation. The study explicitly states that such is not the case and those using this study to make that claim are using fallacious logic. No, the study does not prove that trans women are rapists or likely to be rapists. The “male pattern of criminality” found in the 1973 to 1988 cohort group was not a euphemism for rape. No, the study does not prove that trans women exhibit male socialization. The “male pattern of criminality” found in the 1973 to 1988 cohort group was not a claim that trans women were convicted of the same types of crime as cis men. The tldr for this article is this: SRS is undeniably effective at treating gender dysphoria but we also need to address social issues that trans people face, like social oppression, bullying, abuse, rape, etc as these things contribute to higher rates of mental health issues for trans people even after surgery. For example, misrepresenting this study and pretending that it shows that SRS isn't effective would be an example of the kind of stigma and negative attitudes that leads to worse mental health outcomes for trans people." https://www.transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: Another quote from Dhejne criticizing people like 5: "No, the study does not show that medical transition results in suicide or suicidal ideation. The study explicitly states that such is not the case and those using this study to make that claim are using fallacious logic. No, the study does not prove that trans women are rapists or likely to be rapists. The “male pattern of criminality” found in the 1973 to 1988 cohort group was not a euphemism for rape. No, the study does not prove that trans women exhibit male socialization. The “male pattern of criminality” found in the 1973 to 1988 cohort group was not a claim that trans women were convicted of the same types of crime as cis men. The tldr for this article is this: SRS is undeniably effective at treating gender dysphoria but we also need to address social issues that trans people face, like social oppression, bullying, abuse, rape, etc as these things contribute to higher rates of mental health issues for trans people even after surgery. For example, misrepresenting this study and pretending that it shows that SRS isn't effective would be an example of the kind of stigma and negative attitudes that leads to worse mental health outcomes for trans people." https://www.transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm And there in lies why what the NB, Sask, and Alberta governments have done is reprehensible beyond belief. Just cruelty, ignorance and hatred. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 5 minutes ago, Spur1 said: And there in lies why what the NB, Sask, and Alberta governments have done is reprehensible beyond belief. Just cruelty, ignorance and hatred. Misinformation and lies. Something we've seen a lot of in this thread lately. Of course the one time we see articles get thrown around it gets completely twisted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5forFighting Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 28 minutes ago, Spur1 said: Are really that dense or are you just trolling? Did you listen to Cross Country Checkup today on the subject? Oh wait you and DB probably think CBC stands for Communist Broadcasting Corporation. Body parts are only cut off children in extreme situations if at all. If you don’t already live in Alberta you should move there as you would probably fit right in. Body and parts and chemicals. Non starters. Leave the kids alone sickos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, 5forFighting said: Body and parts and chemicals. Non starters. Leave the kids alone sickos. Sure ok…let’s see…for starters no vaccines, no antibiotics, no casts, no masks, no Tylenol, no operations for anything. We will just give them thoughts and prayers. Give your head a good shake. Go for a long walk and actually think about what you’re saying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 52 minutes ago, 5forFighting said: So don't let them cut off their body parts as children, agreed? Is that what you think the study that you linked says? 13 minutes ago, 5forFighting said: Body and parts and chemicals. Non starters. Leave the kids alone sickos. Who are these sickos you refer to? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Satchmo said: PLOS is a well respected publication and should be expected to provide as good or better information as Scientific American. On this subject though they do have a history of bias. On August 27, 2018, the editors of PLOS One initiated a reevaluation of an article they published two weeks earlier submitted by Brown University School of Public Health assistant professor Lisa Littman.[54] The study described a phenomenon of social contagion, or "cluster outbreaks" in gender dysphoria among young people, which Littman called "rapid-onset gender dysphoria".[54] Data was obtained from a survey placed on three websites for concerned parents of children with gender dysphoria, asking for responses from parents whose children had experienced "sudden or rapid development of gender dysphoria beginning between the ages of 10 and 21".[55] The study was criticized by transgender activists like Julia Serano and medical professionals like developmental and clinical psychologist Diane Ehrensaft, as being politicized and having self-selected samples, as well as lacking clinical data or responses from the adolescents themselves.[56][57] On March 19, 2019, PLOS One completed its review. PLOS One psychology academic editor Angelo Brandelli Costa acted as a reviewer criticizing the methods and conclusion of the study in a formal comment, saying, "The level of evidence produced by the Dr. Littman's study cannot generate a new diagnostic criterion relative to the time of presentation of the demands of medical and social gender affirmation."[58] In a separate letter apologizing for the failure of peer review to address the issues with the article, PLOS One Editor-in-chief Joerg Heber said, "we have reached the conclusion that the study and resultant data reported in the article represent a valid contribution to the scientific literature. However, we have also determined that the study, including its goals, methodology, and conclusions, were not adequately framed in the published version, and that these needed to be corrected."[59] The paper was republished with updated Title, Abstract, Introduction, Methodology, Discussion, and Conclusion sections, but the Results section was mostly unchanged. In her correction, Littman emphasized that the article was "a study of parental observations which serves to develop hypotheses", saying "Rapid-onset gender dysphoria (ROGD) is not a formal mental health diagnosis at this time. This report did not collect data from the adolescents and young adults (AYAs) or clinicians and therefore does not validate the phenomenon. Additional research that includes AYAs, along with consensus among experts in the field, will be needed to determine if what is described here as rapid-onset gender dysphoria (ROGD) will become a formal diagnosis."[54] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLOS_One#History If some of these cluster outbreaks aren't the result of social contagion, what would you think it is? Going by a personal example in my child's class, where more than half a dozen girls who were all friends before the pandemic, are suddenly forced home and put online for a significant amount of time, to then start using male pronouns when allowed back to school. Given that there is messaging online that if you aren't happy with your body, you should change it, and young girls very often have issues with their self image... that seems like too big of a coincidence that they didn't influence each other. I don't think people should be ignoring/writing off the social aspect, which many people like to do (not saying you do though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Call me weird. But people change a lot from 12-19, even from 20-30. I'm ok at age 21 you want to change yourself, that's totally fair, and your body has done most but not all of it's maturing. I just feel children should feel love. And get lots of support from the parents. If the final piece is to change yourself, you're an adult. And your parent should love you still. I just don't think there should be any surgeries until you've matured a bit. I don't want kids to feel depressed, suicidal, or anything to hurt themselves. I just want them in a position that they know what they want, and are fine with the decision. Raging hormones cause a lot of wild thoughts. In the end society should be supportive. Like I said once you're an adult you should be free to make the choices that make you happy. Just my 2 cents. I don't think that's stepping on anyone's toes for 6-7 years. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Call me weird. But people change a lot from 12-19, even from 20-30. I'm ok at age 21 you want to change yourself, that's totally fair, and your body has done most but not all of it's maturing. I just feel children should feel love. And get lots of support from the parents. If the final piece is to change yourself, you're an adult. And your parent should love you still. I just don't think there should be any surgeries until you've matured a bit. I don't want kids to feel depressed, suicidal, or anything to hurt themselves. I just want them in a position that they know what they want, and are fine with the decision. Raging hormones cause a lot of wild thoughts. In the end society should be supportive. Like I said once you're an adult you should be free to make the choices that make you happy. Just my 2 cents. I don't think that's stepping on anyone's toes for 6-7 years. Only speaking to your comment about being ‘ok with 21.’ Since a person is an adult at 18 or 19 (depending on the province) are you suggesting that an adult should be prevented from making their own decisions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5forFighting Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 17 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Call me weird. But people change a lot from 12-19, even from 20-30. I'm ok at age 21 you want to change yourself, that's totally fair, and your body has done most but not all of it's maturing. I just feel children should feel love. And get lots of support from the parents. If the final piece is to change yourself, you're an adult. And your parent should love you still. I just don't think there should be any surgeries until you've matured a bit. I don't want kids to feel depressed, suicidal, or anything to hurt themselves. I just want them in a position that they know what they want, and are fine with the decision. Raging hormones cause a lot of wild thoughts. In the end society should be supportive. Like I said once you're an adult you should be free to make the choices that make you happy. Just my 2 cents. I don't think that's stepping on anyone's toes for 6-7 years. Uh oh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5forFighting Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 6 minutes ago, 4petesake said: Only speaking to your comment about being ‘ok with 21.’ Since a person is an adult at 18 or 19 (depending on the province) are you suggesting that an adult should be prevented from making their own decisions? Let's make it 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 23 minutes ago, Master Mind said: If some of these cluster outbreaks aren't the result of social contagion, what would you think it is? Going by a personal example in my child's class, where more than half a dozen girls who were all friends before the pandemic, are suddenly forced home and put online for a significant amount of time, to then start using male pronouns when allowed back to school. Given that there is messaging online that if you aren't happy with your body, you should change it, and young girls very often have issues with their self image... that seems like too big of a coincidence that they didn't influence each other. I don't think people should be ignoring/writing off the social aspect, which many people like to do (not saying you do though). And that is why they are assessed by mental health as well as doctors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
112 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Call me weird. But people change a lot from 12-19, even from 20-30. I'm ok at age 21 you want to change yourself, that's totally fair, and your body has done most but not all of it's maturing. I just feel children should feel love. And get lots of support from the parents. If the final piece is to change yourself, you're an adult. And your parent should love you still. I just don't think there should be any surgeries until you've matured a bit. I don't want kids to feel depressed, suicidal, or anything to hurt themselves. I just want them in a position that they know what they want, and are fine with the decision. Raging hormones cause a lot of wild thoughts. In the end society should be supportive. Like I said once you're an adult you should be free to make the choices that make you happy. Just my 2 cents. I don't think that's stepping on anyone's toes for 6-7 years. And that's part of the problem. Persons with gender dysphoria do not want their bodies to mature as their biological sex. It's quite a cruelty to prevent people capable of providing informed consent (including mature minors) from starting treatments because their bodies just develop more and more incongruities with their true gender the longer they wait. Edited February 5 by 112 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 6 minutes ago, 5forFighting said: Let's make it 18 How about the government stays to heck out it instead of pushing religious dogma b.s. This is exactly why we need separation of religion and state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 15 minutes ago, 4petesake said: Only speaking to your comment about being ‘ok with 21.’ Since a person is an adult at 18 or 19 (depending on the province) are you suggesting that an adult should be prevented from making their own decisions? I'm not saying carve it in stone. If the doctors and psychologists and other experts are ok with 18-19. I'm fine with that too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 23 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: I'm not saying carve it in stone. If the doctors and psychologists and other experts are ok with 18-19. I'm fine with that too. I haven’t been able to find anything definitive but as far as surgeries go it may be a moot point in BC, at least for lower surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 hours ago, 5forFighting said: If you think that the pronouns are polling in Smith's favour but sex and gender discussions etc aren't going to. I think you should post sources for what you allege are facts, rather than pulling them out of your ass.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5forFighting Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 54 minutes ago, Spur1 said: How about the government stays to heck out it instead of pushing religious dogma b.s. This is exactly why we need separation of religion and state. Religion? That's weird. Is no drinking, voting, driving etc until a certain age religious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5forFighting Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 43 minutes ago, 4petesake said: I haven’t been able to find anything definitive but as far as surgeries go it may be a moot point in BC, at least for lower surgery. Not moot, put it on the books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Yes, lets ignore the medical professionals who have spent years in studying this issue and pull an arbitrary number out of our asses, because we all know so much better..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5forFighting Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 5 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: Yes, lets ignore the medical professionals who have spent years in studying this issue and pull an arbitrary number out of our asses, because we all know so much better..... Weird you want to let kids take chemical castration or have their parts lopped off. You may want to think about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, 5forFighting said: Weird you want to let kids take chemical castration or have their parts lopped off. You may want to think about that. Weird that you keep promoting this line of bullshit after being fact checked on it multiple time.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 8 minutes ago, 5forFighting said: Weird you want to let kids take chemical castration or have their parts lopped off. You may want to think about that. Have you done any research to find out just how often what you are so opposed to actually happens? And at what age it happens? And what happens before and after? Edited February 5 by Satchmo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5forFighting Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 minutes ago, Satchmo said: Have you actually done any research to find out just how often what you are so opposed to actually happens? And at what age it happens? And what happens before and after? Anything more than 1 under the age of 18 or 19 or 21, whichever is too many. Pretty sick that some in this group want to allow it. If you don't think there are sicko doctors pushing for or allowing it to happen, your kids could be next, but you're cool with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, 5forFighting said: Anything more than 1 under the age of 18 or 19 or 21, whichever is too many. Pretty sick that some in this group want to allow it. If you don't think there are sicko doctors pushing for or allowing it to happen, your kids could be next, but you're cool with that. So your answer is no, you have not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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