King Heffy Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 4 minutes ago, 4petesake said: Actually hate speech is equating a trans person to a pervert in a washroom whipping out his pecker in front of a little girl. I tried to have a reasonable conversation with you but this is where it winds up. Nobody anywhere wants perverts around kids full stop. You and I agree on something. The problem with your argument is you are labelling an entire group of people with that and if we’re being honest, the wrong group. The perverts are most likely to be adult males, probably a relative or trusted family friend but I would never slap that tag on those groups because it would be an ugly generalization. Hate speech. You do you but if you want to have a real conversation maybe take a cue from @Master Mind. I may disagree with some of his points but it’s good discussion. It's no different than accusing someone coaching junior hockey of trying to molest kids. Edited February 5 by King Heffy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggums Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, 4petesake said: Actually hate speech is equating a trans person to a pervert in a washroom whipping out his pecker in front of a little girl. I tried to have a reasonable conversation with you but this is where it winds up. Nobody anywhere wants perverts around kids full stop. You and I agree on something. The problem with your argument is you are labelling an entire group of people with that and if we’re being honest, the wrong group. The perverts are most likely to be adult males, probably a relative or trusted family friend but I would never slap that tag on those groups because it would be an ugly generalization. Hate speech. You do you but if you want to have a real conversation maybe take a cue from @Master Mind. I may disagree with some of his points but it’s good discussion. No no, people took what I said and twisted it. Yes I used the term "whip it out" but you're trying to make it sound like I said they go in there just whip it out in front of kids... You can twist it all you want, that's what the left does. Twists things, claim bigotry etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, Wiggums said: No no, people took what I said and twisted it. Yes I used the term "whip it out" but you're trying to make it sound like I said they go in there just whip it out in front of kids... You can twist it all you want, that's what the left does. Twists things, claim bigotry etc. There we go again with a blanket and dismissive description of the left. Despite how easily it could be countered with a blanket and dismissive description of the right, could it not also just be counted as one of the many exaggerations people are attributing to you?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 39 minutes ago, Wiggums said: I am learning that I need to not hurt your feelings or you'll report me Like I said earlier, I never even reported you. This is merely your twist on what you think happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggums Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, Satchmo said: There we go again with a blanket and dismissive description of the left. Despite how easily it could be countered with a blanket and dismissive description of the right, could it not also just be counted as one of the many exaggerations people are attributing to you?. There's blanket statements about the right literally all day in here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggums Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, The Lock said: Like I said earlier, I never even reported you. This is merely your twist on what you think happened. Yes but in the future if I hurt your feelings, you may report me. It's not a twist, it's what I've learned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Wiggums said: So worrying about children having this type of surgery, especially without parental consent is bigoted? Have me or him ever actually said we don't support trans people? Where is the actual hate speech? Speech you are.hurt by doesn't count as hate speech You are making stuff up and pretending to be mad about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, Wiggums said: There's blanket statements about the right literally all day in here... Despite what they say fighting fire with fire is not likely to put the fire out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, The Lock said: Like I said earlier, I never even reported you. This is merely your twist on what you think happened. He's just hoping to hear that he upset you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, Wiggums said: Yes but in the future if I hurt your feelings, you may report me. It's not a twist, it's what I've learned It takes a lot for me to report someone, but if it makes you feel better to think my fweeling are sooooo pwecious then go for it. Whatever allows you to sleep at night. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: He's just hoping to hear that he upset you. Don't worry, he's not upsetting me. I find it more funny than anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, The Lock said: Don't worry, he's not upsetting me. I find it more funny than anything. Yea it's kind of sad tbh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Spur1 said: I didn’t vote for JT last election but I sure as heck didn’t vote for the Conservatives. Not really too many other options, can vote NDP which is just a vote for JT when they just cave to the Liberal party, or throw away vote to the green party ect. Many people in this country want to be Liberal but based on the horses available, I think I'm leaning conservative. Liberal party needs a kick in the pants as they have grown stale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: It has very little to do with the Liberals, but it will also have very little to do with the Conservatives as well, so nothing will change. If the government wants to actually pay down the debt, then yes they will need to cut spending, that is not a foreign concept and was done successfully under the Chretien government. In fact, Chretien was even able to balance the budget by cutting spending. This is a foreign concept to Trudeau's government. We haven't had a balanced budget since the last days of Harper. And before you start throwing out the usual COVID, world wars and all of the other reasons, Trudeau has been in power since 2016 and promised a balanced budget in 2019, well before COVID. As a matter of fact, that's what he campaigned on and that is one of the reasons people like me voted for him and why he got elected... I think Covid very much explains it, yes Trudeau ran some deficits in 2016-2019 but relative to Harper he seemed to be trending well. The hole dug by COVID pretty much explains everything. I do agree though, boy do I miss the Chrietien years. https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/services/publications/annual-financial-report/2022.html Judging by post history, I think we'll have some disagreements here. I agree Trudeau's gone stale and it's time for a change. I would normally swap my vote to conservative from liberal/ndp in any other situation (I used to think of the political parties as t-shirts the country wears, when the party is in power too long it gets dirty, and the opposition cleans up from the last scandal and assumes power.) The conservatives however, have adopted the culture war MAGA schtick to drive division and win power in the most cynical fashion. It's a huge turn off and frankly makes me concerned what long settled hot button issue they are going to go after next (Gay marriage? Abortion?). As a person that used to vote Conservative and had voted for Stephen Harper, It's just alarming how quickly the party now is so quick to jump on those tactics. I'd probably identify as a Progressive Conservative if the parties split today, but frankly there is no home for me in this current iteration of the CPC. Not to mention the whole dismantling of the provincial healthcare systems to sneak in privatized healthcare. How many more structural changes will the Conservatives sneak in while distracting the populace with this culture war stuff. What is the Conservative party going to do for Canada? Aside from giving a platform to yell at Trudeau and emotional satisfaction from owning the libs? Edited February 5 by DSVII 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, The Lock said: See, in my opinion, it's better for the kids to open up when they feel it's time. Sometimes, that time could be early on, other times it could be never. No legislation can interpret nor can it account for these factors and not all parents have the kids' best interests in mind. It's also why I think any legislation towards it is just not going to work in the end. That being said, legislation never completely solves problems either. Agreed the legislation won't benefit everyone in the end, and I can't think of a solution that will be beneficial for everyone. I think that's an important aspect for both sides to consider. You briefly mentioned athletics, and without changing the conversation too much, I think that faces a similar situation where we haven't yet thought of a solution that will benefit everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, Master Mind said: Agreed the legislation won't benefit everyone in the end, and I can't think of a solution that will be beneficial for everyone. I think that's an important aspect for both sides to consider. You briefly mentioned athletics, and without changing the conversation too much, I think that faces a similar situation where we haven't yet thought of a solution that will benefit everyone. So you think it's ok to introduce legislation that you admit is harmful to some children? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 25 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said: Not really too many other options, can vote NDP which is just a vote for JT when they just cave to the Liberal party, or throw away vote to the green party ect. Many people in this country want to be Liberal but based on the horses available, I think I'm leaning conservative. Liberal party needs a kick in the pants as they have grown stale. I understand the sentiment, but be careful what you wish for. "we need a change" is diaper politics, and you often end up in a messy situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 3 hours ago, Satchmo said: I appreciate your considered response. In retrospect I think mine might have been a bit harsh. I too have wondered if some aspects of all this might be because of trend following, teen age rebellion, and a wish to be in vogue. If so, I would suspect it would be on the part of a minority. A pronoun changing club still has a ways to go before they decide to take any further actions. I would suspect that anyone truly considering to do so has more on their mind. I have seen some people on other platforms consider the points you mention as intolerant, hateful, and transphobic, but I think those are valid points to make, and worth consideration. I don't like how this type of discussion is prohibited on some other platforms. Every person's experience is different, and we should be open to possibilities. I think it's important to be able to ask these types of questions, to better understand what someone is experiencing, and how to best proceed. Edited February 5 by Master Mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, Optimist Prime said: or what is best for 'their family name"? Just a query, i don't really know. For me it is in similar territory to honour killings among other religions than christianity. Same vibe, very different level of issue. Some people value their family name/legacy very highly, and that will be the case for some. Again I don't think that is the case for most though. I'm not understanding how this is similar to your example though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 8 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I understand the sentiment, but be careful what you wish for. "we need a change" is diaper politics, and you often end up in a messy situation. Change is always hard I think the two party system works a lot better when control alternates every now and then, as it creates incentive for parties to improve and not be complacent. Turnover also helps limit corruption a little bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, 4petesake said: You do you but if you want to have a real conversation maybe take a cue from @Master Mind. I may disagree with some of his points but it’s good discussion. Hey thanks for the shout out. While we may disagree on things, I'm glad you and I can discuss things civilly. Cheers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 14 minutes ago, King Heffy said: So you think it's ok to introduce legislation that you admit is harmful to some children? I think it can be harmful to some, and helpful to some. I have mixed feelings on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 10 minutes ago, Master Mind said: Agreed the legislation won't benefit everyone in the end, and I can't think of a solution that will be beneficial for everyone. I think that's an important aspect for both sides to consider. You briefly mentioned athletics, and without changing the conversation too much, I think that faces a similar situation where we haven't yet thought of a solution that will benefit everyone. Yeah, and I want to point out that the solutions don't always have to be from legislation. Sometimes solutions just happen over time in a more societal sense. For example, it wasn't that long ago where just being gay was being questioned. Now it feels more like a norm more and more people are getting used to. Is it perfect? No, but it does show that society can figure it out. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, Master Mind said: I have seen some people consider the points you mention as intolerant, hateful, and transphobic, but I think those are valid points to make, and worth consideration. I don't like how this type of discussion is prohibited on some other platforms. Every person's experience is different, and we should be open to possibilities. I think it's important to be able to ask these types of questions, to better understand what someone is experiencing, and how to best proceed. Are you saying you have seen that here? If so, I have to disagree. I won't comment on other platforms without knowing the who/what/when/where of it all. I will say I support open discussion, as free from bias and agendas as humans can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Bure_Pavel said: Change is always hard I think the two party system works a lot better when control alternates every now and then, as it creates incentive for parties to improve and not be complacent. Turnover also helps limit corruption a little bit. for sure, I agree 100% in principle. Its why I like having 4 parties fighting it out, you don't get the kind of polarization of actual legislation that we see elsewhere. The political chatter is shit up here, but the actual law making is still OK, imo. If the CPC had selected Rona Ambrose or someone like her, I could be with you on this. I just find that Poilievre brings out the worst in everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.