the destroyer of worlds Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 37 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: A lack of inventory isn’t a free market. If you have a limited supply of anything prices will ultimately go up. This is economics 101. A free market is when there are enough goods and services for all and there is fair competition. If 100 people go to a Safeway for apples and there are only 4 apples available, is that considered a free market for apples? Or would that lead to a bidding war on those apples and thus raise the price considerably on those 4 apples, leaving 96 people high and dry and looking for an apple somewhere else. You don’t need to impose regulations or price controls in a free market where there is abundance for all. The market takes care of itself as long as there is fair competition. So if the market will fix itself, then why all the hate directed towards big government? If price controls and no new regulation are not needed, then I guess we just twiddle our thumbs and the problem will magically solve itself then?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 18 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: No circle jerking going on in this thread at all First thing that came to mind, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 17 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: No circle jerking going on in this thread at all I know boxes are off limits but are you putting us all in a circle now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Just now, Satchmo said: I know boxes are off limits but are you putting us all in a circle now? Seems to probably fit better for the theme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 4 minutes ago, Bob Long said: First thing that came to mind, huh? I call it as I see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 32 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said: So if the market will fix itself, then why all the hate directed towards big government? If price controls and no new regulation are not needed, then I guess we just twiddle our thumbs and the problem will magically solve itself then?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? The market will only fix itself if there is abundance for all and fair competition. Government at all levels are responsible for our current situation. We don’t need communism to fix the problem. We need more competent people in government who are able to provide solutions to the worst housing crisis in Canadian history. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem anyone currently in government on either side is capable enough to fix the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 26 minutes ago, Satchmo said: I know boxes are off limits but are you putting us all in a circle now? I used to spend a lot of time trying to get into a box. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 So here's an exercise for everyone: Let's say for sake of argument, that you are appointed PM, Premier, Minister or Mayor.....What's your solution to the housing problem? I'm not asking anyone for a detailed budget, or anything like that....just a plan of action. I freely admit that this sort of thing is not my bailiwick, so I don't have an answer. I'm asking those folks who have experience or knowledge of this sort of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 32 minutes ago, Satchmo said: I know boxes are off limits but are you putting us all in a circle now? Apparently boxers are off limits too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 4 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: So here's an exercise for everyone: Let's say for sake of argument, that you are appointed PM, Premier, Minister or Mayor.....What's your solution to the housing problem? I'm not asking anyone for a detailed budget, or anything like that....just a plan of action. I freely admit that this sort of thing is not my bailiwick, so I don't have an answer. I'm asking those folks who have experience or knowledge of this sort of thing. Whatever it takes to get building again. If there is anything that can be done to bring down building costs, I'd start there but I'm fairly ignorant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 17 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Whatever it takes to get building again. If there is anything that can be done to bring down building costs, I'd start there but I'm fairly ignorant Yeah, I agree with the general idea, but it's easy to say something like that. I was hoping for something a bit more specific. Not directed at you Ricky, but there seems to be a few people here with a background in Finance, so I was hoping they'd weigh in.....especially since some of them seem to be doing the most criticizing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 I'd suggest, that if Canada goes on a huge 'build houses/homes/condos binge; maybe we try out different types of buildings and different materials. If we are talking about 100's of thousands of buildings, lets get them built with tomorrow's standards and materials. Energy efficient. Gardens on the roofs of all new Apartments. Underground housing. So many possibilities. Project this big could make huge changes in building industry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 40 minutes ago, Spur1 said: I used to spend a lot of time trying to get into a box. The older you get the more time you spend trying to stay out of one… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 55 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: So here's an exercise for everyone: Let's say for sake of argument, that you are appointed PM, Premier, Minister or Mayor.....What's your solution to the housing problem? I'm not asking anyone for a detailed budget, or anything like that....just a plan of action. I freely admit that this sort of thing is not my bailiwick, so I don't have an answer. I'm asking those folks who have experience or knowledge of this sort of thing. I saw Eby on the news the other day talking about the BC government getting into building and managing it's own housing. Something similar to what Singapore and South Korea have done. I don't know the in's and outs, but I do like the idea of looking at other countries that have had success in areas we struggle to help come up with a solution. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 26 minutes ago, Gurn said: I'd suggest, that if Canada goes on a huge 'build houses/homes/condos binge; maybe we try out different types of buildings and different materials. If we are talking about 100's of thousands of buildings, lets get them built with tomorrow's standards and materials. Energy efficient. Gardens on the roofs of all new Apartments. Underground housing. So many possibilities. Project this big could make huge changes in building industry. That’s already taking place. The BC building code was changed and all new developments have to follow a green criteria. Even commercial property. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, RupertKBD said: So here's an exercise for everyone: Let's say for sake of argument, that you are appointed PM, Premier, Minister or Mayor.....What's your solution to the housing problem? I'm not asking anyone for a detailed budget, or anything like that....just a plan of action. I freely admit that this sort of thing is not my bailiwick, so I don't have an answer. I'm asking those folks who have experience or knowledge of this sort of thing. IMO municipalities need to cut all the red tape. It takes upwards of 2 years to build a house from the purchase of a lot, to rezoning, to getting permits, to actually building the home. Mayor Ken Sim of Vancouver is doing this right now in Vancouver. All the other municipalities need to follow in his footsteps. They need to cut that building time by 50% to less than a year. For condo developments, the timeframe from the purchase of the land to the completion of the project is upwards of 8 years. Same thing here. Cut the building time in half to 4 years, maybe 3. Once the red tape is cut then building needs to accelerate at a much greater pace. We are talking hundreds of thousands of homes that need to be built to offset demand. That isn’t going to happen overnight. Bill 44 and Bill 47 will greatly help the acceleration of new homes in BC. But it’s gonna be a decade or more before supply catches up to demand. If I was the Prime Minister I would slow down the immigration until supply catches up to demand. Of course the flip to that is that we need all those immigrants to cover for the jobs needed to keep the economy going. Perhaps there is balance that can take place. As Prime Minister I would order the Minister of Housing and the Minister of Immigration to conduct a joint study and complete a report on this in the first year of my new government to assess the current situation and come up with a plan to balance the levels of new immigration and tie it to the construction of new homes in Canada. Edited February 17 by Elias Pettersson 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Just gonna leave this here. Seems....that maybe just maybe. Things were just as bad regarding household income to debt and spending in 2014/2015 as they are now. But....how is everything so much worse now than it was before because this obviously only became an issue in the last 7 ish years or so right? Guys? Right? 2014 Canada’s household debt-to-disposable income ratio rose to new high of 163.3 per cent in fourth quarter of 2014. Put another way, households held roughly $1.63 of credit market debt for every dollar of disposable income as of the end of last year, StatsCan said. Canadians are taking on more and more debt, despite an uncertain economy, a report from credit monitoring firm Equifax says. The company says total consumer debt including mortgages rose to $1.529 trillion at the end of 2014. That was up 7.7 per cent from $1.42 trillion at the end of 2013, including a 1.1 per cent increase in the latest quarter alone. 2016 The ratio of household debt to disposable income hit a new record in the fourth quarter of last year. Statistics Canada says the ratio rose to 165.4 per cent in the fourth quarter, up from 164.5 per cent in the third quarter. That means Canadian households on average held $1.65 in debt for every dollar of disposable income 2023 A report from Statistics Canada says that the ratio of Canadian household debt to income narrowed in the third quarter. The agency says household credit market debt as a proportion of household disposable income in the third quarter fell to 181.6 per cent, on a seasonally adjusted basis, down from 181.9 per cent in the second quarter. In other words, it says Canadians owed $1.82 in credit market debt for every dollar of household disposable income in the third quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Eh Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 8 hours ago, King Heffy said: Ok, what are they doing to help themselves instead of blaming the government? Probably working two jobs, that's why they aren't here to defend themselves. People that work two jobs don't have time for social media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: A lack of inventory isn’t a free market. If you have a limited supply of anything prices will ultimately go up. This is economics 101. A free market is when there are enough goods and services for all and there is fair competition. If 100 people go to a Safeway for apples and there are only 4 apples available, is that considered a free market for apples? Or would that lead to a bidding war on those apples and thus raise the price considerably on those 4 apples, leaving 96 people high and dry and looking for an apple somewhere else. You don’t need to impose regulations or price controls in a free market where there is abundance for all. The market takes care of itself as long as there is fair competition. Uhh several things I want to go over this. you basically just summed up supply and demand. your missing the key thing here and that is population growth. As it stands, we are bringing in more immigrants which exacerbates housing shortage. As long as there’s more people coming in, there’s going to be increased demand which negates any type of sustainable growth in affordability. there’s also needs to be an equilibrium of demand in infrastructure and services such as more transportation, schools, healthcare facilities, and utilities that must also accompany increased supply of homes. people want homes but they also need convenience. This is where capitalism comes into play. Someone with increased wealth can just buy all the apples in the store and bid up the prices. Capitalism revolves around incentives. In this instance, capitalist driven markets prioritize profiting and personal economic growth over social welfare. I can build 5 more stores for these 100 people, but what would stop me from further jacking up the prices of apples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Eh Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 8 hours ago, RupertKBD said: I dunno.....seems like a bit of gaslighting going on ITT.....A lot of, "This country is broken" and "people are living in poverty"...... .....yet, from some o those same people.... "How dare you suggest I like the other guys!" It sure doesn't take a whole lot to label someone these days, doesn't it? I guess you're a conservative then? I mean you and Heffy sure sounded like the neo-cons of the 80's. "Our government didn't make you poor, you did it because you didn't pull yourself up by your bootstraps." Doesn't sound like they'd get much more from anyone with that attitude than they would from the cons. Either side doesn't give two shits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Eh Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 8 hours ago, RupertKBD said: Well then I have to wonder what you're doing here.... If you don't think the Conservatives will be an improvement, are you just here to complain about the current state of things? That's fine if you are, but most of the people doing so are hoping for a change in government.....and there really only is one alternative to the current one. Almost Anyone will be better than the absolute clown show we have now. Our government is corrupt but likes to act like its Barney the purple gender dinosaur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Eh Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 8 hours ago, King Heffy said: And I'm all for helping those people more. It's important to differentiate between people who can't help themselves and people who won't help themselves though, and the 1/3 statistic doesn't take that into account. I just don't want people who genuinely can cut expenses and make more money to cry wolf and make it harder to help those who genuinely need assistance. You just described our shitty government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 2 hours ago, Warhippy said: Just gonna leave this here. Seems....that maybe just maybe. Things were just as bad regarding household income to debt and spending in 2014/2015 as they are now. But....how is everything so much worse now than it was before because this obviously only became an issue in the last 7 ish years or so right? Guys? Right? 2014 Canada’s household debt-to-disposable income ratio rose to new high of 163.3 per cent in fourth quarter of 2014. Put another way, households held roughly $1.63 of credit market debt for every dollar of disposable income as of the end of last year, StatsCan said. Canadians are taking on more and more debt, despite an uncertain economy, a report from credit monitoring firm Equifax says. The company says total consumer debt including mortgages rose to $1.529 trillion at the end of 2014. That was up 7.7 per cent from $1.42 trillion at the end of 2013, including a 1.1 per cent increase in the latest quarter alone. 2016 The ratio of household debt to disposable income hit a new record in the fourth quarter of last year. Statistics Canada says the ratio rose to 165.4 per cent in the fourth quarter, up from 164.5 per cent in the third quarter. That means Canadian households on average held $1.65 in debt for every dollar of disposable income 2023 A report from Statistics Canada says that the ratio of Canadian household debt to income narrowed in the third quarter. The agency says household credit market debt as a proportion of household disposable income in the third quarter fell to 181.6 per cent, on a seasonally adjusted basis, down from 181.9 per cent in the second quarter. In other words, it says Canadians owed $1.82 in credit market debt for every dollar of household disposable income in the third quarter. In January of 2014, the median price of a house in East Vancouver was $920,000. In January of 2024, the median price of a house in East Vancouver was $1,872,500. So house prices more than doubled during the last 10 years. Do you think people are better off when house prices are double what they were 10 years ago? Also, the average person's mortgage would also be double what it was from 2014 in order to purchase the home today, which means their mortgage payment would be double what it was in 2014. Have incomes doubled since 2014 to match house prices? The fact of the matter is because of the massive increase in property values over the last 10 years, people were able to re-finance their homes and live off of their equity. Equity takeouts have risen dramatically over the last 5 years. Problem now is with all of the rate increases those equity takeouts are coming back to bite people in the ass, as their mortgage payments have doubled on that debt. Plus, all of the properties that have been bought over the last 5+ years now have mortgage payments that have also doubled in value. Meanwhile, people's incomes have been pretty stable over the last 5 years with minimal growth only due to inflation. Edited February 17 by Elias Pettersson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 5 hours ago, 4petesake said: The older you get the more time you spend trying to stay out of one… Black holes indeed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Eh Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 8 hours ago, the destroyer of worlds said: This is your retort. Ad hominem. Based on the track record, accusations turn out to be confessions. You need a friend there keyboard warrior. Now i have become dumb, the destroyer of words. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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