Canadian Politics Thread

[The Duke]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Embarrassing, but what of it?  
 

Sure, apologize, give your head a shake and rip into some intern that was supposed to fact check this kind of stuff.  Politicians can be dumb and caught up in posturing.  No surprise there.
 

This is just meaningless culture war fodder beyond that.  
 

Unless of course people like to believe the federal liberals are, in fact, secret nazis.  

[Elias Pettersson]

10 minutes ago, The Duke said:

Embarrassing, but what of it?  
 

Sure, apologize, give your head a shake and rip into some intern that was supposed to fact check this kind of stuff.  Politicians can be dumb and caught up in posturing.  No surprise there.
 

This is just meaningless culture war fodder beyond that.  
 

Unless of course people like to believe the federal liberals are, in fact, secret nazis.  

 

Apparently alot of Jewish people are upset about this.  I'm assuming there is more to fact checking than having an intern pick someone to go in front of the House of Commons and receive a standing ovation from 338 members of Parliament, all while another leader from another country is in attendance...

[The Duke]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Apparently alot of Jewish people are upset about this.  I'm assuming there is more to fact checking than having an intern pick someone to go in front of the House of Commons and receive a standing ovation from 338 members of Parliament, all while another leader from another country is in attendance...

So, you think they intentionally applauded a nazi?  Trying to whittle away at the conservative base? (  kidding)
 

I wasn’t actually coming at you for sharing, just a general comment on what the Twitter culture war enthusiasts were running with after I clicked the link.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Apparently alot of Jewish people are upset about this.  I'm assuming there is more to fact checking than having an intern pick someone to go in front of the House of Commons and receive a standing ovation from 338 members of Parliament, all while another leader from another country is in attendance...

Was the 98 year old war veteran a NAZI or a Ukrainian who did what he had to do to fight the Communist Russians? This attempt to connect Zalinsky and our MPs to being NAZIs is incredibly stupid. 
Zalinsky’s visit is what is most important. We need to continue to support the Ukrainian people in their fight against the Russian occupation and brutality. 
Or do you believe that’s not what’s most important? 

[Alflives]

Just now, The Duke said:

So, you think they intentionally applauded a nazi?  Trying to whittle away at the conservative base? (  kidding)
 

I wasn’t actually coming at you for sharing, just a general comment on what the Twitter culture war enthusiasts were running with after I clicked the link.

There are A LOT (notice the correct spelling) of people out there who don’t realize they are supporting z Pootin’s Russia with their foolishness. 

[The Duke]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

There are A LOT (notice the correct spelling) of people out there who don’t realize they are supporting z Pootin’s Russia with their foolishness. 

I agree Alf that the big idea here is that Putin needs to be checked.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, The Duke said:

I agree Alf that the big idea here is that Putin needs to be checked.

Yup. Got to put things into perspective. And that’s very likely what that Ukrainian war veteran was doing when he fought in WWII. Fight Communist Russians was for sure paramount to him. Just like today. Except today it’s Pootin and his sick, evil ways. 

[aGENT]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:54 PM, LaBamba said:

everyone is acting like the CPC is going to convert Canada  into a libertarian society. The cycle roughly goes. Left, spend on social programs, Right, tighten the budget and so on. It’s time to tighten it up. You’re most likely not going to see a CPC government big enough to outvote the liberal and NDP so I don’t understand why everyone is so worried. 

 

But again... They don't actually "tighten the budget". Historically they actually INCREASE deficit spending while slashing social programs, military spending etc which actually erode the average Canadians quality of life.

 

Sure, they'll lower taxes, which will "help" a very small percentage of wealthy Canadians (at the expense of everyone else, higher poverty and hence crime, drugs and mental health etc issues). But this sentiment that it's "better for Canada" is flat out false. 

 

We need to get out of the exact yo yo economic cycle you are calling for. The only way you do that is by creating a prosperous lower and middle class populace of sufficient size and quality, that is too big and healthy for investors to ignore. The conservative platform is the exact opposite of that. A race to the bottom where the rich get richer, the resources are all sold off, and they suck the country dry. Only to move on to greener pastures, rinse and repeat.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by aGENT

[Elias Pettersson]

41 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Was the 98 year old war veteran a NAZI or a Ukrainian who did what he had to do to fight the Communist Russians? This attempt to connect Zalinsky and our MPs to being NAZIs is incredibly stupid. 
Zalinsky’s visit is what is most important. We need to continue to support the Ukrainian people in their fight against the Russian occupation and brutality. 
Or do you believe that’s not what’s most important? 

Seems like the error was enough to supposedly get the House Speaker to make an apology today. I haven’t seen any apology though. 
 

It doesn’t matter what’s most important. What matters is some people supposedly were offended and now the House Speaker needs to make an apology. 
 

Also, who exactly is connecting Zelenskyy to this guy?  Zelenskyy was simply a guest in the House of Commons. It was the Canadian politicians who picked this guy to show up. 

[LaBamba]

6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

But again... They don't actually "tighten the budget". Historically they actually INCREASE deficit spending while slashing social programs, military spending etc which actually erode the average Canadians quality of life.

 

Sure, they'll lower taxes, which will "help" a very small percentage of wealthy Canadians (at the expense of everyone else, higher poverty and hence crime, drugs and mental health etc issues). But this sentiment that it's "better for Canada" is flat out false. 

 

We need to get out of the exact yo yo economic cycle you are calling for. The only way you do that is by creating a prosperous lower and middle class populace of sufficient size and quality, that is too big and healthy for investors to ignore. The conservative platform is the exact opposite of that. A race to the bottom where the rich get richer, the resources are all sold off, and they suck the country dry. Only to move on to greener pastures, rinse and repeat.

 

 

You’ve missed a lot and I’m not going to repeat myself. If you read some posts I made earlier, it will answer this. 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Seems like the error was enough to supposedly get the House Speaker to make an apology today. I haven’t seen any apology though. 
 

It doesn’t matter what’s most important. What matters is some people supposedly were offended and now the House Speaker needs to make an apology. 
 

Also, who exactly is connecting Zelenskyy to this guy?  Zelenskyy was simply a guest in the House of Commons. It was the Canadian politicians who picked this guy to show up. 

If Supporting the Ukrainian people in the fight against z Pootin is what’s most important then don’t bring up the 98 year old Ukrainian who fought against the Communist Russians all those years ago. 

[aGENT]

13 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

You’ve missed a lot and I’m not going to repeat myself. If you read some posts I made earlier, it will answer this. 

Just read the entire thread. No it doesn't.

[Sabrefan1]

.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Sabrefan1

[Miss Korea]

37 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Seems like the error was enough to supposedly get the House Speaker to make an apology today. I haven’t seen any apology though. 
 

It doesn’t matter what’s most important. What matters is some people supposedly were offended and now the House Speaker needs to make an apology. 
 

Also, who exactly is connecting Zelenskyy to this guy?  Zelenskyy was simply a guest in the House of Commons. It was the Canadian politicians who picked this guy to show up. 

 

29 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If Supporting the Ukrainian people in the fight against z Pootin is what’s most important then don’t bring up the 98 year old Ukrainian who fought against the Communist Russians all those years ago. 

 

Welcome to the world of Ukrainian politics and Ukrainian history, where the greatest war heroes and resisters against Russia have almost always come from the extreme right wing, from Lenin to Stalin all the way to Putin.  With such a large Ukrainian immigrant population from decades back, it's no surprise that Nazi collaborators have been memorialized here.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorials_in_Canada_to_Nazis_and_Nazi_collaborators

 

Zelenskyy was part of the standing ovation.  It is part of a complicated legacy of collaboration in Eastern Europe, and of their descendants who made their way across the Atlantic.  The intentions of Ukrainian collaborators was pretty obvious: revenge against the Soviets who imposed a brutal bread famine.  The actions of the 14th Waffen SS (1st Galician) are heavily disputed.  Timothy Snyder, a notable Eastern Holocaust historian who I've referenced earlier, does not believe the volunteers of the 14th SS took part in the mass genocide of Poles in Eastern Galicia.  

 

There is no doubt the optics are bad, and I think Hunka should not have been applauded in the House of Commons.  Here's my previous post about it:

5 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

I'll say this, though.  There are more collaborator descendents living here than Holocaust descendents.  Part of that is because there were only so many Holocaust survivors... but you get my point.

 

I can't pass blanket judgment on Eastern Europeans who collaborated with the Nazis during WWII.  They were literally getting squeezed to death from each side.  The most likely outcome for any of us was death.  Sometimes the Nazi/Soviet regimes worked together to exterminate people, especially Poles.

 

If you're legitimately intrigued by this topic, take a look at Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder.  Depressing read obviously but a true eye-opener.

 

 

 

[Miss Korea]

@Sabrefan1 refer to above post.  An extremely complicated topic that requires a deeper understanding of not only Ukrainian history and Ukrainian politics, but also the massive Ukrainian-Canadian population of which many descended from collaborators.

 

I am not here to pass judgment.  I'm simply here to try and inform.  What's obvious here is that Trudeau just stepped on a landmine and it'll take some skill to defuse it.

[Sabrefan1]

Just now, Miss Korea said:

@Sabrefan1 refer to above post.  An extremely complicated topic that requires a deeper understanding of not only Ukrainian history and Ukrainian politics, but also the massive Ukrainian-Canadian population of which many descended from collaborators.

 

I am not here to pass judgment.  I'm simply here to try and inform.  What's obvious here is that Trudeau just stepped on a landmine and it'll take some skill to defuse it.

 

Just noticed it.  Parliament screwed the pooch.  I'll grant that some, maybe half, were just lemmings following the herd, but plenty of people there knew exactly that they were giving an actual Nazi, and tacitly the party he once belonged to, a standing ovation.

 

Shame on parliament.

[LaBamba]

34 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Just read the entire thread. No it doesn't.

Then you don’t prioritize economics. I’m not making this up. The current government created the conditions for this perfect storm. They have no way out. 
Like I said, CPC majority sentiment alone would strengthen the currency and immediately help with inflation. We have 3 years to get inflation down to the point where the BOC can start quantitative easing. If this doesn’t happen we will watch an economic catastrophe that will forever be tied to JT’s legacy. 
 

Harper had a global financial crisis and an oil crash tied to our then petro dollar. He needed to increase spending to continue growth. He had a completely different set of issues that he handled well. JT handled Covid well. It’s just the conditions created with his policy set him up for failure. 
 

I personally never compare economic policy from a completely different landscape. There are so many variables. Harper had $100 oil for a large portion of his term. It was good for currency, but a strong currency is detrimental long term. Our industry losses its competitiveness, and jobs move elsewhere. We do have more consumer power though. Oil crashed near the end of his tenure which flipped everything upside down. Spending was needed to support that loss. 
 

JT came in with a lower currency and low energy prices. Most economists agree that low oil prices are the biggest stimulus an economy can experience. At that time Canada began to divest from oil and that capital left Canada. He successfully supported some of that loss with legalizing cannabis but the divestment from commodities and unfavourable policy was planting a seed for the conditions we have today. Covid came, the economy shut down and the BOC dropped interest rates historically low to soften the blow. That set us up for a low inventory of houses with low interest rates and disrupted supply chain. The housing market exploded along with inflation. Oil prices recovered but our dollar diverged from oil prices because we no longer had that capital in that industry. So now we are left with dollar/GDP growth from the housing market. The BOC rose interest rates to calm inflation. with mortgages from an explosion in a low interest period. When those mortgages come up for renewal there will be a generational correction. 
 

[Miss Korea]

1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Just noticed it.  Parliament screwed the pooch.  I'll grant that some, maybe half, were just lemmings following the herd, but plenty of people there knew exactly that they were giving an actual Nazi, and tacitly the party he once belonged to, a standing ovation.

 

Shame on parliament.

You are oversimplifying the very long and complex legacy of neo-fascism in Ukraine, and the massive immigrant population here in Canada.  Ukrainian nationalism is almost inherently fascist.  It's an incredibly hard pill to swallow.

 

If anyone here has a legitimate interest in this subject and Hunka's actual volunteer division, read this article by Per Anders Rudling.  He references Snyder quite often, and serves as a solid primer: https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/progressalberta/pages/2706/attachments/original/1595543144/They_Defended_Ukraine.pdf?1595543144

 

[Sabrefan1]

Just now, Miss Korea said:

You are oversimplifying the very long and complex legacy of neo-fascism in Ukraine, and the massive immigrant population here in Canada.  Ukrainian nationalism is almost inherently fascist.  It's an incredibly hard pill to swallow.

 

If anyone here has a legitimate interest in this subject and Hunka's actual volunteer division, read this article by Per Anders Rudling.  He references Snyder quite often, and serves as a solid primer: https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/progressalberta/pages/2706/attachments/original/1595543144/They_Defended_Ukraine.pdf?1595543144

 

 

You are over-complicating it.  There's no acceptable excuse.  So many Canadians died in WW2 at the hands of the Nazi party.  There's no way, that if they were alive today, they'd accept any explanation for the Nazi party to be celebrated in Canada.

[Warhippy]

Trudeau divested Canada from oilsands and thus lost revenue.  Companies wouldn't develop in Canada because of Trudeau's policies and.

Wait hold up.  Was it trudeau's policies?  Or banks and insurers and hedge funds refusing to outright invest in or insure oilsands projects that helped tank the development in the oilsands?

 

Here is a look at some of the institutions with commitments and policies targeting oil sands.

** ING Groep in June 2017 updated its policy barring transactions directly linked to mining, exploration and transportation and processing of oil sands to include Canada’s government-owned Trans Mountain expansion, TC Energy’s Keystone XL and Enbridge’s Line 3.

** BNP Paribas in October 2017 said it would not finance Arctic, tar sands, shale oil or shale gas projects.

 

** Societe Generale SA in December 2017 said it would no longer finance the production of oil from tar sands.

** Insurer Axa SA in December 2017 said it would phase out coverage of oil sands businesses.

** HSBC in April 2018 said it would no longer provide project finance for new oil sands projects, including pipelines.

** Royal Bank of Scotland in May 2018 said it would not finance oil sands projects.

** Sweden’s central bank in November 2019 sold bonds issued by the Canadian province of Alberta.

 

** UBS in March said it would not finance new oil sands projects.

** Norges Bank in May said in would exclude several Canadian oil sands producers from the country’s $1 trillion wealth fund.

** Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group in May put oil sands extraction on its “restricted transaction” list.

** Deutsche Bank in July said it would no longer finance new oil sands projects, including exploration, production, transport or processing.

** Insurer Zurich decided not renew coverage for the Canadian government’s Trans Mountain oil pipeline, a spokeswoman for the project said in July.

** Dutch asset manager Robeco in September said it would exclude Suncor, Canadian Natural Resources and others from sustainability funds.

 

Barclays, Europe’s largest financier of tar sands companies, announced its commitment to end financing of tar sands producers, as well as ban further financing of new oil sands pipelines. This particularly impacts Canadian companies like Canadian Natural Resources, Cenovus, MEG Energy, TC Energy amongst others. Barclays pumped more than $4.3 billion into tar sands companies since the Paris Climate Agreement was signed in 2016, making it the seventh largest financier of the sector.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/climate/blackrock-oil-sands-alberta-financing.html

 

the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec has stated it will unload its oil-producing holdings by the end of 2022 and Harvard University — and other academic institutions — has agreed to divest its holdings in fossil fuels. Norway’s US$1.3-trillion state pension fund has also sold off oilsands holdings.

 

 

 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

If Supporting the Ukrainian people in the fight against z Pootin is what’s most important then don’t bring up the 98 year old Ukrainian who fought against the Communist Russians all those years ago. 

This is the Canadian politics thread. I brought up something in regards to Canadian politics. If you want to talk about Ukraine and the war then you need to go to the other thread. 

[Warhippy]

Just for reference regarding the Hunka issue

 

In a statement, the Prime Minister's Office said the decision to invite and honour Hunka was made by the Speaker's office alone.

"The independent Speaker of the House has apologized and accepted full responsibility for issuing the invitation and for the recognition in Parliament. This was the right thing to do," said a PMO spokesperson.

 

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

This is the Canadian politics thread. I brought up something in regards to Canadian politics. If you want to talk about Ukraine and the war then you need to go to the other thread. 

When Canadian politicians do something that has consequences not only to Canadians but also to the worldwide diaspora, it’s ok to discuss it here. 
 

I understand your point though of keeping Ukraine’s war efforts against Russia to that thread. 
 

Cheers. 

[Sabrefan1]

Just now, Warhippy said:

Just for reference regarding the Hunka issue

 

In a statement, the Prime Minister's Office said the decision to invite and honour Hunka was made by the Speaker's office alone.

"The independent Speaker of the House has apologized and accepted full responsibility for issuing the invitation and for the recognition in Parliament. This was the right thing to do," said a PMO spokesperson.

 

 

Heads need to roll.  That is a blunder not even the dumbest in the US Congress would make.  And that's saying something......

[Miss Korea]

Just now, Sabrefan1 said:

You are over-complicating it.  There's no acceptable excuse.  So many Canadians died in WW2 at the hands of the Nazi party.  There's no way, that if they were alive today, they'd accept any explanation for the Nazi party to be celebrated in Canada.

 

There are literally giant books written about this subject, especially since the Russian invasion.  There are statues all over Canadian cities commemorating various war heroes who collaborated with the Nazi regime.  They are often vandalized with stuff like "Nazi collaborator" etc.  It's COMPLICATED.