Ricky Ravioli Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 7 minutes ago, Satchmo said: Who is Michael Rupcich? Is he someone to listen to? You can't always trust Wikipedia but it's usually pretty safe: Canada Unity is a group that campaigned against COVID-19 mask mandates and vaccine passports during the Canada convoy protest.[1] Co-lead by James Bauder, the group attempted to have the federal government of Canada brought down by the Governor General during the 2022 Canada Convoy Protest. One of the lead organizers of the convoy, James Bauder, has previously stated support for QAnon, endorsed conspiracy theories about the COVID-19 pandemic and the 2020 US presidential election, and called for the arrest of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau for alleged treason. It states in the article "One of the groups organizing people to join the convoy headed to Ottawa wants more than just an end to vaccine mandates, they want an end to the current government." Doesn't say anything about them actually being apart of the original group organizing the whole thing. I never saw anyone talking about actually trying to overthrow a government. This all just sounds like fear mongering to me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Just now, Ricky Ravioli said: It states in the article "One of the groups organizing people to join the convoy headed to Ottawa wants more than just an end to vaccine mandates, they want an end to the current government." Doesn't say anything about them actually being apart of the original group organizing the whole thing. I never saw anyone talking about actually trying to overthrow a government. This all just sounds like fear mongering to me Nobody is saying they were more than one of the leadership group. They just heard about and joined up. I think that's the only argument you can make Ricky, and the only one that would be agreed to. It can't be argued that when they did join they brought their agenda with them and were readily accepted by the other organizers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 4 minutes ago, Satchmo said: Nobody is saying they were more than one of the leadership group. They just heard about and joined up. I think that's the only argument you can make Ricky, and the only one that would be agreed to. It can't be argued that when they did join they brought their agenda with them and were readily accepted by the other organizers. They are trying to say the whole convoy wanted to overthrow the government when that's clearly not true though as I see no evidence saying otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: They are trying to say the whole convoy wanted to overthrow the government when that's clearly not true though as I see no evidence saying otherwise So how many "F Trudeau" signs does it take then in order for there to be enough evidence that they wanted a new government? I saw the Prince George version of the convoy 1st hand and they absolutely wanted to overthrow the government. They were even chanting it. Edited February 22 by The Lock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Ricky Ravioli said: They are trying to say the whole convoy wanted to overthrow the government when that's clearly not true though as I see no evidence saying otherwise I'm not sure they were, but if so I can see what you are getting at. I still think it relevant that when Canada Unity joined the convoy Bauder became a co-leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 10 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: They are trying to say the whole convoy wanted to overthrow the government when that's clearly not true though as I see no evidence saying otherwise thats true, some were just there to poop on lawns or hassle churches. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 6 minutes ago, The Lock said: So how many "F Trudeau" signs does it take then in order for there to be enough evidence that they wanted a new government? I saw the Prince George version of the convoy 1st hand and they absolutely wanted to overthrow the government. They were even chanting it. So how many of those people actually tried to overthrow the government? Because what is being said is the convoy tried to overthrow the government. Lame chants in Prince George mean nothing to me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 3 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: So how many of those people actually tried to overthrow the government? Because what is being said is the convoy tried to overthrow the government. Lame chants in Prince George mean nothing to me how about you tell us one policy that makes sense that the convoy dumb dumbs wanted. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 52 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: "Michael Rupcich FEBRUARY 8, 2022 Did a little research on my own, here is what the Sun got wrong: This group appears to have 5 members, 3 comments on their page and 165 friends. This group is not part of the leadership of the Freedom convoy, they are just joining it (it is unclear if only one member is going to Ottawa or all of them, but should all fit in the cab) They started an online petition asking the governor general to demand the government repeal their mandates because (in their opinion) they violate the U.N. charter of human rights, and failing that to demand the governments resignation. So , they actually were only interested in removing the mandates, replacing the government would only be considered if they did not comply. The petition is dated 2021, predating, and therefor not related to the current protest. CTV also mentioned this group, and while lncorrectly linking it directly to the convoy, actually reported their aims correctly (I know, I was amazed as well) This misreporting is apparently the source of the ridiculous claims that the aim of the convoy is to overthrow the government. Somebody started an online petition last year, has that somehow been spun to a need to call in the army." That comment came from the first article you linked. Sounds like the people "talking" about it weren't even apart of the original organizers. So again, no one tried to overthrow the government. Some random loser's just talked about it. I see The MoU literally stated the removal of the current government and governor general as a main goal. It's inarguable. Just because they changed it doesn't mean it didn't exist 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 6 minutes ago, Bob Long said: thats true, some were just there to poop on lawns or hassle churches. So just another walk down Pandora street in Victoria. Nothing I haven't seen in the past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Just now, Ricky Ravioli said: So just another walk down Pandora street in Victoria. Nothing I haven't seen in the past heck of a comp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Just now, Warhippy said: The MoU literally stated the removal of the current government and governor general as a main goal. It's inarguable. Just because they changed it doesn't mean it didn't exist Cool, so they never did try to overthrow the government. Thanks for playing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: So how many of those people actually tried to overthrow the government? Because what is being said is the convoy tried to overthrow the government. Lame chants in Prince George mean nothing to me Ricky - was there or was there not a group associated with the leadership of the convoy that had the overthrow of the government as part of their published manifesto? Edited February 22 by Satchmo sp 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: So how many of those people actually tried to overthrow the government? Because what is being said is the convoy tried to overthrow the government. Lame chants in Prince George mean nothing to me Don't know as I wasn't in Ottawa. I do know however that these kinds of events tend to bring out a mob mentality not dissimilar to what we saw with movements such as Black Lives Matter or what happened Jan 6. Remember that BLM was supposed to be peaceful too until it wasn't and that Jan 6 was peaceful until Trump rallied his base to storm the capitol. If we are to take the numerous reports at face value that the leaders of the convoy did want to overthrow the government, then the intentions were there regardless of if an attempt was actually made or not. It likely would have just been a matter of time had the government not intervened. Edited February 22 by The Lock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 17 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: They are trying to say the whole convoy wanted to overthrow the government when that's clearly not true though as I see no evidence saying otherwise The leaders, originators and coordinators of the convoy had that as their MoU Not the whole convoy or the entirety of the protestors. Again, there is and was nothing wrong with protesting in Ottawa. The issue came with the threats of violence against rcmp in alberta, the blocking of international crossings costing hundreds of millions of dollars the endless weeks long occupation of the capitol as well as the stated goal of the removal of the duly elected government of Canada 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Cool, so they never did try to overthrow the government. Thanks for playing Shifting goalposts doesn't actually mean you';re winning it means you're ignoring the facts because they don't work for you 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Just now, Warhippy said: Shifting goalposts doesn't actually mean you';re winning it means you're ignoring the facts because they don't work for you Well when people say "the freedom convoy tried to overthrow the government" it's clearly an attempt to paint the entire group and anyone who supports them as people who want to see the same. That's where my problem lies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 4 minutes ago, Satchmo said: Ricky - was there or was there not a group associated with the leadership of the convoy that had the overthrow of the government as part of their published manifesto? Did that group speak for everyone? Or were they just acting on their own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Well when people say "the freedom convoy tried to overthrow the government" it's clearly an attempt to paint the entire group and anyone who supports them as people who want to see the same. That's where my problem lies no your problem lies in disingenuous arguments. But thats the CPC playbook. Oh its not us, its just the leaders who wanted it, and maybe some other guys but we didn't count so, its all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Well when people say "the freedom convoy tried to overthrow the government" it's clearly an attempt to paint the entire group and anyone who supports them as people who want to see the same. That's where my problem lies So then if the article said the convoy leadership wanted to overthrow the government, would that make you happier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Well when people say "the freedom convoy tried to overthrow the government" it's clearly an attempt to paint the entire group and anyone who supports them as people who want to see the same. That's where my problem lies When people say the freedom convoy tried to overthrow the government they literally mean the leaders had a stated goal of removing the elected government of Canada. What the ever loving fuck is the issue in understanding that for you? Nobody is painting ever single man woman and child of the convoy as that. But the people who engaged in and participated in the convoy knowing that was a stated goal and were helping promote it sure are guilty as charged. Your problem lies in the fact that you are backed in to a corner in which you have been proven wrong and are desperately seeking an out by creating some sort of nirvana fallacy that discredits the argument enough that it makes your being wrong less of an issue in comparison 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Just now, Ricky Ravioli said: Well when people say "the freedom convoy tried to overthrow the government" it's clearly an attempt to paint the entire group and anyone who supports them as people who want to see the same. That's where my problem lies I guess it could be said that there were good people on both sides. Just now, Ricky Ravioli said: Did that group speak for everyone? Or were they just acting on their own? Why does it matter and how would I know? They joined, they were accepted, and they led. The whole convoy was a confederacy of dunces with many agendas in my view. Their agenda was just one of the many but certainly one of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 4 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Did that group speak for everyone? Or were they just acting on their own? And here we have the entirety of the Poilivere campaign Argue long and hard, shift the argument and attentioin enough that people forget the actual meat and issue of the original act and argument. The deflection will ensure that those guilty are in fact now free of scrutiny because the attention is elsewhere Shifting goalposts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Warhippy said: When people say the freedom convoy tried to overthrow the government they literally mean the leaders had a stated goal of removing the elected government of Canada. What the ever loving fuck is the issue in understanding that for you? Nobody is painting ever single man woman and child of the convoy as that. But the people who engaged in and participated in the convoy knowing that was a stated goal and were helping promote it sure are guilty as charged. Your problem lies in the fact that you are backed in to a corner in which you have been proven wrong and are desperately seeking an out by creating some sort of nirvana fallacy that discredits the argument enough that it makes your being wrong less of an issue in comparison Ahhh yes, Mr assumptions is on the case again. Nobody tried to overthrow the government. Get that through your head. Mission statements by a couple of losers do not classify as trying to overthrow the government. What is the ever loving fucking issue in understanding that for you? Your problem lies in the fact you do nothing but try to talk people into corners and make assumptions and labels when you really don't know shit Edited February 22 by Ricky Ravioli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Ahhh yes, Mr assumptions is on the case again. Nobody tried to overthrow the government. Get that through your head. Mission statements by a couple of losers do not classify as trying to overthrow the government. What is the ever loving fucking issue in understanding that for you? Your problem lies in the fact you do nothing but try to talk people into corners and make assumptions and labels when you really don't know shit So you think its legal to put out a manifesto saying you're going to overthrow the government Thats a stretch even for you, Ricky. But look over there, I think someone from BLM said something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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