Canadian Politics Thread

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Heads need to roll.  That is a blunder not even the dumbest in the US Congress would make.  And that's saying something......

Someone certainly needs to be held accountable, and also apologize, and step down. 
 

That sword doesn’t necessarily need to fall on the head of the PM, his Cabinet members or MPs. 
 

It was an oversight. That rightfully needs to be addressed and condemned. However, one doesn’t bring down an entire government for attempting, in good faith, to work with a foreign government in attempts to diplomatically honour someone they thought was ‘cool’. 
 

Libs fucked up. 
 

Plain and simple. 
 

 

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Then you don’t prioritize economics. I’m not making this up. The current government created the conditions for this perfect storm. They have no way out. 
Like I said, CPC majority sentiment alone would strengthen the currency and immediately help with inflation. We have 3 years to get inflation down to the point where the BOC can start quantitative easing. If this doesn’t happen we will watch an economic catastrophe that will forever be tied to JT’s legacy. 
 

Harper had a global financial crisis and an oil crash tied to our then petro dollar. He needed to increase spending to continue growth. He had a completely different set of issues that he handled well. JT handled Covid well. It’s just the conditions created with his policy set him up for failure. 
 

I personally never compare economic policy from a completely different landscape. There are so many variables. Harper had $100 oil for a large portion of his term. It was good for currency, but a strong currency is detrimental long term. Our industry losses its competitiveness, and jobs move elsewhere. We do have more consumer power though. Oil crashed near the end of his tenure which flipped everything upside down. Spending was needed to support that loss. 
 

JT came in with a lower currency and low energy prices. Most economists agree that low oil prices are the biggest stimulus an economy can experience. At that time Canada began to divest from oil and that capital left Canada. He successfully supported some of that loss with legalizing cannabis but the divestment from commodities and unfavourable policy was planting a seed for the conditions we have today. Covid came, the economy shut down and the BOC dropped interest rates historically low to soften the blow. That set us up for a low inventory of houses with low interest rates and disrupted supply chain. The housing market exploded along with inflation. Oil prices recovered but our dollar diverged from oil prices because we no longer had that capital in that industry. So now we are left with dollar/GDP growth from the housing market. The BOC rose interest rates to calm inflation. with mortgages from an explosion in a low interest period. When those mortgages come up for renewal there will be a generational correction. 
 

 

I do prioritize economics. What you're suggesting is a short term "fix" though. One that simply contributes the yo-yo left-right economics ride we've been on for decades. It's precisely why conservatives (beyond their archaic social policies) never STAY in power. 

 

People see the crumbling infrastructure and social support, short term bandaids that overwhelmingly favor the wealthy and realize they're getting screwed sooner or later. As I said to you earlier in the thread, Canadians seem to require a reminder every ten years or so why the current right has no business governing Canada. They don't have any long term vision for economics, and now they've added a hate filled and bigoted agenda and ignorant environmental plan to that. And People want to vote for this...?

 

By all means the Liberals are FAR from perfect, they could certainly improve on their economic plan and improve federal support for investment in to mining, green tech etc. But we're not talking about them, we're talking about you promoting the cons as the alternative "solution". They very much are not, and are in fact far worse than the imperfect Liberals. While a conservative government may give a short term economic boost, long term, they're far more damaging economically, and that's before you take in to consideration the economic damage from the social environmental policies they bring along.

[LaBamba]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Trudeau divested Canada from oilsands and thus lost revenue.  Companies wouldn't develop in Canada because of Trudeau's policies and.

Wait hold up.  Was it trudeau's policies?  Or banks and insurers and hedge funds refusing to outright invest in or insure oilsands projects that helped tank the development in the oilsands?

 

Here is a look at some of the institutions with commitments and policies targeting oil sands.

** ING Groep in June 2017 updated its policy barring transactions directly linked to mining, exploration and transportation and processing of oil sands to include Canada’s government-owned Trans Mountain expansion, TC Energy’s Keystone XL and Enbridge’s Line 3.

** BNP Paribas in October 2017 said it would not finance Arctic, tar sands, shale oil or shale gas projects.

 

** Societe Generale SA in December 2017 said it would no longer finance the production of oil from tar sands.

** Insurer Axa SA in December 2017 said it would phase out coverage of oil sands businesses.

** HSBC in April 2018 said it would no longer provide project finance for new oil sands projects, including pipelines.

** Royal Bank of Scotland in May 2018 said it would not finance oil sands projects.

** Sweden’s central bank in November 2019 sold bonds issued by the Canadian province of Alberta.

 

** UBS in March said it would not finance new oil sands projects.

** Norges Bank in May said in would exclude several Canadian oil sands producers from the country’s $1 trillion wealth fund.

** Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group in May put oil sands extraction on its “restricted transaction” list.

** Deutsche Bank in July said it would no longer finance new oil sands projects, including exploration, production, transport or processing.

** Insurer Zurich decided not renew coverage for the Canadian government’s Trans Mountain oil pipeline, a spokeswoman for the project said in July.

** Dutch asset manager Robeco in September said it would exclude Suncor, Canadian Natural Resources and others from sustainability funds.

 

Barclays, Europe’s largest financier of tar sands companies, announced its commitment to end financing of tar sands producers, as well as ban further financing of new oil sands pipelines. This particularly impacts Canadian companies like Canadian Natural Resources, Cenovus, MEG Energy, TC Energy amongst others. Barclays pumped more than $4.3 billion into tar sands companies since the Paris Climate Agreement was signed in 2016, making it the seventh largest financier of the sector.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/climate/blackrock-oil-sands-alberta-financing.html

 

the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec has stated it will unload its oil-producing holdings by the end of 2022 and Harvard University — and other academic institutions — has agreed to divest its holdings in fossil fuels. Norway’s US$1.3-trillion state pension fund has also sold off oilsands holdings.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, all this happing 2 years after JT took power? That’s odd. It had nothing to do with $30 oil and a $80 break even. How about an unforeseen change in policy from their original investment? This literally proves my point. Thank you. 

[Miss Korea]

If anyone here is actually interested in studying more about Eastern collaboration during WWII, there are some more recent sources you can try browsing: 

 

Unlikely Allies: Nazi German and Ukrainian Nationalist Collaboration in the General Government during World War II , Paweł Markiewicz (2021)

Complicated Complicity: European Collaboration with Nazi Germany during World War II , Martina Bitunjac and Julius B. Schoeps (2021)

[Elias Pettersson]

16 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Then you don’t prioritize economics. I’m not making this up. The current government created the conditions for this perfect storm. They have no way out. 
Like I said, CPC majority sentiment alone would strengthen the currency and immediately help with inflation. We have 3 years to get inflation down to the point where the BOC can start quantitative easing. If this doesn’t happen we will watch an economic catastrophe that will forever be tied to JT’s legacy. 
 

Harper had a global financial crisis and an oil crash tied to our then petro dollar. He needed to increase spending to continue growth. He had a completely different set of issues that he handled well. JT handled Covid well. It’s just the conditions created with his policy set him up for failure. 
 

I personally never compare economic policy from a completely different landscape. There are so many variables. Harper had $100 oil for a large portion of his term. It was good for currency, but a strong currency is detrimental long term. Our industry losses its competitiveness, and jobs move elsewhere. We do have more consumer power though. Oil crashed near the end of his tenure which flipped everything upside down. Spending was needed to support that loss. 
 

JT came in with a lower currency and low energy prices. Most economists agree that low oil prices are the biggest stimulus an economy can experience. At that time Canada began to divest from oil and that capital left Canada. He successfully supported some of that loss with legalizing cannabis but the divestment from commodities and unfavourable policy was planting a seed for the conditions we have today. Covid came, the economy shut down and the BOC dropped interest rates historically low to soften the blow. That set us up for a low inventory of houses with low interest rates and disrupted supply chain. The housing market exploded along with inflation. Oil prices recovered but our dollar diverged from oil prices because we no longer had that capital in that industry. So now we are left with dollar/GDP growth from the housing market. The BOC rose interest rates to calm inflation. with mortgages from an explosion in a low interest period. When those mortgages come up for renewal there will be a generational correction. 
 

Well said my friend. Completely on point and fair to both sides.  And I agree. The housing market is due for a correction the likes of which we have never seen before.  Some are predicting up to a 50% correction. 30% is probably a given. It’s already happening in Ontario and will soon happen in BC as well. 

[Sabrefan1]

1 minute ago, Miss Korea said:

 

There are literally giant books written about this subject, especially since the Russian invasion.  There are statues all over Canadian cities commemorating various war heroes who collaborated with the Nazi regime.  They are often vandalized with stuff like "Nazi collaborator" etc.  It's COMPLICATED.

 

 

 

As far as I'm concerned.  It's still black and white and what you're telling me is a stain on Canada. 

 

As great as Canada was in WW2, it saddens me to read what you just wrote.  I live on the border and have been to Canada many times.  Hopefully I don't see one of those statues the next time I go across to Toronto, Hamilton, or Niagara Falls.

[LaBamba]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

I do prioritize economics. What you're suggesting is a short term "fix" though. One that simply contributes the yo-yo left-right economics ride we've been on for decades. It's precisely why conservatives (beyond their archaic social policies) never STAY in power. 

 

People see the crumbling infrastructure and social support, short term bandaids that overwhelmingly favor the wealthy and realize they're getting screwed sooner or later. As I said to you earlier in the thread, Canadians seem to require a reminder every ten years or so why the current right has no business governing Canada. They don't have any long term vision for economics, and now they've added a hate filled and bigoted agenda and ignorant environmental plan to that. And People want to vote for this...?

 

By all means the Liberals are FAR from perfect, they could certainly improve on their economic plan and improve federal support for investment in to mining, green tech etc. But we're not talking about them, we're talking about you promoting the cons as the alternative "solution". They very much are not, and are in fact far worse than the imperfect Liberals. While a conservative government may give a short term economic boost, long term, they're far more damaging economically, and that's before you take in to consideration the economic damage from the social environmental policies they bring along.

Bro, you’re acting like they haven’t been in power for 8 years. If you’re looking for any answers on crumbling infrastructure or really anything going on in Canada right now. Look in the mirror at the person who voted for it. 

[Sabrefan1]

5 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Someone certainly needs to be held accountable, and also apologize, and step down. 
 

That sword doesn’t necessarily need to fall on the head of the PM, his Cabinet members or MPs. 
 

It was an oversight. That rightfully needs to be addressed and condemned. However, one doesn’t bring down an entire government for attempting, in good faith, to work with a foreign government in attempts to diplomatically honour someone they thought was ‘cool’. 
 

Libs fucked up. 
 

Plain and simple.

 

I'm certainly not a fan at all of Trudeau, but if he and his aides had nothing to do with it, they have zero reasons to step down.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Bro, you’re acting like they haven’t been in power for 8 years. If you’re looking for any answers on crumbling infrastructure or really anything going on in Canada right now. Look in the mirror at the person who voted for it. 

 

No I'm talking about the infrastructure and social supports that crumble when the cons are in power.

 

I didn't vote Liberal FYI.

[Elias Pettersson]

11 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

There are literally giant books written about this subject, especially since the Russian invasion.  There are statues all over Canadian cities commemorating various war heroes who collaborated with the Nazi regime.  They are often vandalized with stuff like "Nazi collaborator" etc.  It's COMPLICATED.

 

 

 

Shouldn’t those statues be taken down like they did in the US?  In the US they took down statues of former Presidents…

[Sabrefan1]

9 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

If anyone here is actually interested in studying more about Eastern collaboration during WWII, there are some more recent sources you can try browsing: 

 

Unlikely Allies: Nazi German and Ukrainian Nationalist Collaboration in the General Government during World War II , Paweł Markiewicz (2021)

Complicated Complicity: European Collaboration with Nazi Germany during World War II , Martina Bitunjac and Julius B. Schoeps (2021)

 

Thanks for the material recommendations.  I love learning about WW2.   I have since I was a kid. This subject, as it pertains to Canada, is apparently a large hole in my knowledge of it.

 

No matter what though, I will never accept tacit approval, one way or the other, of what the Nazi's did.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Sabrefan1

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Well said my friend. Completely on point and fair to both sides.  And I agree. The housing market is due for a correction the likes of which we have never seen before.  Some are predicting up to a 50% correction. 30% is probably a given. It’s already happening in Ontario and will soon happen in BC as well. 

The housing market would be due for a correction in these global circumstances regardless of which party was in power during the pandemic. It was unavoidable.

 

If anything the cons may have hastened and deepened it.

[Miss Korea]

9 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

 

As far as I'm concerned.  It's still black and white and what you're telling me is a stain on Canada. 

 

As great as Canada was in WW2, it saddens me to read what you just wrote.  I live on the border and have been to Canada many times.  Hopefully I don't see one of those statues the next time I go across to Toronto, Hamilton, or Niagara Falls.

 This isn't Western collaboration, where French or Dutch collaborators pretty much knew exactly what they were signing up for, and made a conscious decision to do support the Nazis.  This is Eastern collaboration, where whole countries were literally getting squeezed to death by two equally deadly regimes who treated them like garbage. 

 

I've studied the war and I've studied the Holocaust.  I'm not being an apologist here.  This type of commemoration is what happens when people from those countries move here.  You're a New Yorker, right?  There are some monuments to Ukrainian collaborators in various parts of your state and across America.  Here's a New Jersey monument commemorating the "heroic sacrifices" of the collaborationist government in Belarus:

Edited September 24, 2023 by Miss Korea

[Sharpshooter]

5 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

I'm certainly not a fan at all of Trudeau, but if he and his aides had nothing to do with it, they have zero reasons to step down.

 

Pretty certain an aide did. 

 

Nevertheless, it’s not something that should dissolve this current government. 
 

 

[Alflives]

30 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Just noticed it.  Parliament screwed the pooch.  I'll grant that some, maybe half, were just lemmings following the herd, but plenty of people there knew exactly that they were giving an actual Nazi, and tacitly the party he once belonged to, a standing ovation.

 

Shame on parliament.

How about putting the focus on what’s important right now, which is supporting the Ukrainian people in the fight against the Pootin (Russian) occupation. Anything Elise, like you’re suggesting here, is actually supporting the evil that is Pootin. Don’t you recognize that? 

[Sabrefan1]

Just now, Miss Korea said:

Then shame on you for refusing to read up more on it.  This isn't Western collaboration, where French or Dutch collaborators pretty much knew exactly what they were signing up for, and made a conscious decision to do support the Nazis.  This is Eastern collaboration, where whole countries were literally getting squeezed to death by two equally deadly regimes who treated them like garbage. 

 

I've studied the war and I've studied the Holocaust.  I'm not being an apologist here.  This type of commemoration is what happens when people from those countries move here.  You're a New Yorker, right?  There are some monuments to Ukrainian collaborators in various parts of your state and across America.  Here's a New Jersey monument commemorating the "heroic sacrifices" of the collaborationist government in Belarus:

 

 

Bad timing.  I just thanked you for the reading suggestions.....

 

A bit quick on the trigger there.

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

The housing market would be due for a correction in these global circumstances regardless of which party was in power during the pandemic. It was unavoidable.

 

If anything the cons may have hastened and deepened it.

The cons haven’t been in power in over 8 years. How exactly did they hasten and deepen it?

Edited September 24, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[aGENT]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

The cons haven’t been in power in over 8 years. How exactly did they hasten and deepen it?

If they'd been in power, they may have hastened and deepened it. The correction was coming either way.

[Sabrefan1]

Just now, Alflives said:

How about putting the focus on what’s important right now, which is supporting the Ukrainian people in the fight against the Pootin (Russian) occupation. Anything Elise, like you’re suggesting here, is actually supporting the evil that is Pootin. Don’t you recognize that? 

 

Not sure how much more the US can do.  We've depleted some of our own munitions to a dangerous level. 

 

Not to mention, we've given them so much money that we can't keep track of it all.

 

There's also the fact of finding much of what we've given to Ukraine showing up for sale on the black market.   There are drug kingpins in Mexico who are arming their guards and goons with shoulder fired missile launchers.  Those will absolutely be used against Americans sooner or later.

[LaBamba]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

 

No I'm talking about the infrastructure and social supports that crumble when the cons are in power.

 

I didn't vote Liberal FYI.

We won’t have a future full of social programs if this isn’t dealt with. There is nothing even close to as big as this issue. This will dramatically change the quality of your life. 
all the graphs comparing inflation number to the G20 mean nothing. They don’t have a housing bubble. 
All your claims are baseless. Trust me, I’ve looked many times over the years for quality of life metrics increasing due to increased social spending and it doesn’t exist. It works if you use your oil wealth like Saudi does but we don’t have that. We have housing wealth. 

[Alflives]

What in the heck is going on here? Let’s get our collective arsed back where they belong, and that’s supporting Ukraine in their fight against the Russian occupation. Maybe if you can’t accept that’s what is paramount, then just move on? This other stuff must stop. MY god! Don’t put yourselves ahead of what’s truly important. Seriously Alf doesn’t understand why anyone would make such comments when so many Ukrainian people are suffering. 

[LaBamba]

7 minutes ago, aGENT said:

The housing market would be due for a correction in these global circumstances regardless of which party was in power during the pandemic. It was unavoidable.

 

If anything the cons may have hastened and deepened it.

Wrong, it very much was avoidable. As I’ve explained 20 times. 

[Sabrefan1]

5 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Pretty certain an aide did. 

 

Nevertheless, it’s not something that should dissolve this current government.

 

That would be stupid.  It's a major eff up but governments shouldn't fall over something like this. 

 

I suppose the opposition parties will always shoot blindly and hope for the best.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Not sure how much more the US can do.  We've depleted some of our own munitions to a dangerous level. 

 

Not to mention, we've given them so much money that we can't keep track of it all.

 

There's also the fact of finding much of what we've given to Ukraine showing up for sale on the black market.   There are drug kingpins in Mexico who are arming their guards and goons with shoulder fired missile launchers.  Those will absolutely be used against Americans sooner or later.

How about simply listening to Biden and Pence? These are two leaders, one democrat; one republican, who know what’s right. Don’t support Pootin and his brutal invasion. Support Ukraine and its brave people. 

[moosehead]

37 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

We won’t have a future full of social programs if this isn’t dealt with. There is nothing even close to as big as this issue. This will dramatically change the quality of your life. 
all the graphs comparing inflation number to the G20 mean nothing. They don’t have a housing bubble. 
All your claims are baseless. Trust me, I’ve looked many times over the years for quality of life metrics increasing due to increased social spending and it doesn’t exist. It works if you use your oil wealth like Saudi does but we don’t have that. We have housing wealth. 

 

Incorrect......  but i do love the way you take GLOBAL issues and try to blame  JT for the same issues we have here.

Canada is a member of the global community.... and we have the same issues as pretty much all countries.  

 

 

 

Housing is a basic human need. But a lack of affordable housing to buy or rent is fuelling a global housing crisis.

By 2025, 1.6 billion people are expected to be affected by the global housing shortage, according to the World Bank.

In most countries, the cost of housing has grown faster than incomes, data from the International Monetary Fund shows.

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/06/how-to-fix-global-housing-crisis/

 

 

UN expert urges G20 to tackle global housing crisis

 

ohchr

https://www.ohchr.org › press-releases › 2018/11 › un...

 

 

 

Nov 29, 2018 — In 10 years, the G20 leaders have yet to address the housing crisis that was at the heart of the financial crisis and that has only worsened ...

Edited September 25, 2023 by moosehead