Canadian Politics Thread

[RupertKBD]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'm just going to pull out this bit. 

 

It might be wishful thinking, but I can't shake the idea that PP has anger peaked too early. Prematurely if you will. 

 

Its hard to sustain all that anger for most folks, particularly if they really get used to things like daycare and seeing older relatives benefit from dental and pharma. Maybe people get into more housing, etc. We're still something like 600 days out from the election.

 

I have a feeling there are a few "centrists" in this thread, who will be testing that theory....

[Bob Long]

Just now, RupertKBD said:

 

I have a feeling there are a few "centrists" in this thread, who will be testing that theory....

 

probably. I'm talking about a drop from 40% back down to 32% where they normally are. 

[Optimist Prime]

17 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'm just going to pull out this bit. 

 

It might be wishful thinking, but I can't shake the idea that PP has anger peaked too early. Prematurely if you will. 

 

Its hard to sustain all that anger for most folks, particularly if they really get used to things like daycare and seeing older relatives benefit from dental and pharma. Maybe people get into more housing, etc. We're still something like 600 days out from the election. 

 

 

on the federal notion; it is far too early to count out Trudeau the boxer. I was at a great lecture by Joe Clark back in my college days where he touched upon the Progressive vs Conservative fight. He barely defeated the elder Trudeau after Pierre had held office for 11 years. The fragile minority of Joe "Who" lasted about 6 or 7 months before Pierre Trudeau proved to be "the Comeback Kid" and took the PM job for another four years. 

Justin studied well at his fathers table, despite being painted as a bumbling drama teacher by his opponents: three of them in succession failed to beat him. Hehe, speaks volumes if you can't beat the guy you think is a feeble lightweight, in my books. 

I think Peak Anger is certainly well and past us right this minute, but was probably at a full boil in late 22/ early 23. 

Can P.P. keep it simmering for a longgggggg 20 more months?

Unlikely with the economy in incredibly sound position, low unemployment and the people most likely to vote already being home owners, to tick off a few of the demographics. If my suspicions are right, we will see at least two governments change to the left from the right provincially in the meantime, possibly three. Crazy Lady in Alberta will be easy pickings for the big red machine if they can tie her to P.P. well enough and then when you get right down to it: the debates. What can P.P. possibly have to say live and on the spot that Justin can't dodge and counter punch to great effect through? P.P. will have to pull a trump and refuse to debate if he has any hope in carrying momentum through the eventual 40 day campaign. 

 

My own side thought too is Peter Poutine is only 44 years old and his only job in adult life thus far was to scream at people in the House of Commons. Canada can do better. 

EDIT: Also: failure to reach a Majority position in the house will lead to being defeated in the first handful of confidence motions. If Skippy can't hold the job for 4 or 5 years: he wont hold it for more than 2 or 3 months. 

[Gurn]

33 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

 

 

But yeah, back on topic: I wonder if the more ruralesque suburban ridings have been tipped already beyond recovery into left of center majorities?  We didn't see CONS moving to the cities, we saw progressives move out to the burbs. But in enough numbers to tip the scales? Speaking about provincial politics more than federal at the moment. I suspect we are going to see a small wave of left wing provincial governments sweep in over the next 5 years. Didn't Notley lose the election with 44% voter support? That is HUGE for Alberta. 250k more voters chose the UCP though, a substantial downturn for them from previous 

Prior to a great John Oliver show, last night, HBO was advertising a show they have coming out.

An African American guy is starting a movement to get more dark skinned folk to move back to the south.

He points out that 'they' would then have enough voters to elect the reps they want.- likely Democrat Party leaning.

If the city/urban areas remain mostly Democrat, it could lead to the drastic curtailing of the republican party.

 

Does make a guy wonder. 

And as a bit of a lefty myself, gives hope for a progressive future.

Edited February 27 by Gurn

[Optimist Prime]

Just gonna plop this here: Using the oldest age group eliminates a lot of volatility from the week by week voter intentions, generally speaking and a month ago things were not all that dire for the Liberals after all the bluster and smoke show. a 4% difference or 2% swing between them is a very fine line indeed. the COns are trending obviously and may well win the next election but it is far from decided and 20 months as was aptly pointed out: is a long time to keep the full boil going on the angry issue voter that PP needs in order to win. 

 

January 26th among voters age 60 and higher in a nation wide polling model that is one of the best in Canada:
CON: 37.05%

LIB: 33.06%
NDP: 16.53%

GRN: 3.23%
PPC: 0.41%

[Optimist Prime]

2 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Prior to a great John Oliver show, last night, HBO was advertising a show they have coming out.

An African American guy is starting a movement to get more dark skinned folk to move back to the south.

He points out that 'they' would then have enough voters to elect the reps they want.- likely Democrat Party leaning.

If the city/urban areas remain mostly Democrat, it could lead to the drastic curtailing of the republican party.

 

Does make a guy wonder. 

And as a bit of a lefty myself, gives hope for a progressive future.

I usually check out this week tonight via app later in the week, hehe. Fell asleep watching Oak Island last night. Mums brothers spent a fortune there looking for treasure, the ones that came back from ww2 anyhow, thus my interest in it. I read bits of that concept though over the last few years here and there, mostly thinking about the Red Boot states anti-women laws lately and how frankly if i was a 20 something vagina I would simply move out of the Boot. (A rough looking boot shape of states that compromise the Conservative leaning states traditionally in my opinion is shaped like a witches boot , hehe). My wife thinks the opposite: if every woman without a job even temporarily moved to Texas from New York and California, they can swing Texas BLUE and our friend would finally win an election. She has lost in Texas three times with over 5 million votes each time..I am not gonna get more specific than that though, she is a burning man friend of my wifes and irrelevant to the topic. 

It certainly does make me wonder though. 

[Optimist Prime]

I will double back here tomorrow when the weeklies drop for demographic breakdowns on polling from a sub i have. I am curious to see if the trough gets wider or narrower. 

[Alflives]

41 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Just gonna plop this here: Using the oldest age group eliminates a lot of volatility from the week by week voter intentions, generally speaking and a month ago things were not all that dire for the Liberals after all the bluster and smoke show. a 4% difference or 2% swing between them is a very fine line indeed. the COns are trending obviously and may well win the next election but it is far from decided and 20 months as was aptly pointed out: is a long time to keep the full boil going on the angry issue voter that PP needs in order to win. 

 

January 26th among voters age 60 and higher in a nation wide polling model that is one of the best in Canada:
CON: 37.05%

LIB: 33.06%
NDP: 16.53%

GRN: 3.23%
PPC: 0.41%

Seniors should think twice before voting for a party with Poo Poo for a leader. 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

27 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Seniors should think twice before voting for a party with Poo Poo for a leader. 

Perhaps they are unaware that he stood with the folks who couldn't care less about the health and safety of senior citizens. Though I'm sure they'll be up to speed by the time the next election comes around. I predict that will be sometime in the next 2 years 

[King Heffy]

29 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Perhaps they are unaware that he stood with the folks who couldn't care less about the health and safety of senior citizens. Though I'm sure they'll be up to speed by the time the next election comes around. I predict that will be sometime in the next 2 years 

People are really underestimating just how much ammunition PP is giving for the attack ads with his open bigotry and promotion of domestic terrorism.  He'll be in real trouble once they start exposing that evil piece of garbage and his barbaric social views.  He might have had a chance if he'd stuck to the economy instead of making it clear that he intends to Nazify Canada.  He's got a good chance of ending up in prison for hate speech if he doesn't start conducting himself appropriately.

[Sapper]

Alberta has announced that they will be opting out of the soon to be tabled national pharmacare plan and demanding a per.capita amount be given to them and let them decide how to spend it.

 

So instead of free insulin for diabetics they can pad the profits of their corporate friends with more tax.cuts ?

The whole point behind a national pharmacare plan is the negotiating of a single buyer and then having the government provide it.

Every employer benefit plan in the country will be saving Billions ( thats B for billions ) a year in reduced drug costs. 

 

Retired diabetics in Alberta will instantly save hundreds per month in costs and be able to use those savings to do such luxury things like eating food 

 

But no .... Conservatives love of Hate and hate farming knows no limits. They will see their own suffer for the glory of picking another fight with anyone not a conservative.... 

Conservatives need for hate is so strong they will see their own harmed before acknowledging that sometimes a non conservative government actually does something that helps everyone ... Including conservative leaning people 

 

Can't stand Trudeau but a nation pharmacare plan is going to lift alot of seniors out of poverty and be a massive savings to business as well as a top recruiting tool for large companies to move here 

 

No health or prescription coverage needed for your workers ? Even with a payroll tax increase to help fund it .. it will still.be huge savings in their pockets ... And pockets of Canadians 

[Sharpshooter]

12 minutes ago, Sapper said:

Alberta has announced that they will be opting out of the soon to be tabled national pharmacare plan and demanding a per.capita amount be given to them and let them decide how to spend it.

 

So instead of free insulin for diabetics they can pad the profits of their corporate friends with more tax.cuts ?

The whole point behind a national pharmacare plan is the negotiating of a single buyer and then having the government provide it.

Every employer benefit plan in the country will be saving Billions ( thats B for billions ) a year in reduced drug costs. 

 

Retired diabetics in Alberta will instantly save hundreds per month in costs and be able to use those savings to do such luxury things like eating food 

 

But no .... Conservatives love of Hate and hate farming knows no limits. They will see their own suffer for the glory of picking another fight with anyone not a conservative.... 

Conservatives need for hate is so strong they will see their own harmed before acknowledging that sometimes a non conservative government actually does something that helps everyone ... Including conservative leaning people 

 

Can't stand Trudeau but a nation pharmacare plan is going to lift alot of seniors out of poverty and be a massive savings to business as well as a top recruiting tool for large companies to move here 

 

No health or prescription coverage needed for your workers ? Even with a payroll tax increase to help fund it .. it will still.be huge savings in their pockets ... And pockets of Canadians 

Conservatives divide. You decide. 

[Kootenay Gold]

If they opt out of this Pharmacare Plan then they should have to foot the bill themselves to provide their own version and not expect the federal government to just hand them the cash to spend as they please. The BS politics in Alberta knows no bounds.

Edited February 27 by Kootenay Gold

[Sapper]

25 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

If they opt out of this Pharmacare Plan then they should have to foot the bill themselves to provide their own version and not expect the federal government to just hand them the cash to do spend as they please. The BS politics in Alberta knows no bounds.

They won't get anything because maximum savings can only be achieved if Canada purchases as a single buyer. Alberta and Quebec opting out will increase the drug costs which should off set any monies they'd get .... So zero bucks to them and a bigger bill to the rest of us

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Sapper said:

a nation pharmacare plan is going to lift alot of seniors out of poverty

It will go a long way to helping that for sure. Last election cycle, in the time between them I had drafted a policy paper that made it to the convention floor to guarantee seniors over 65 30k a year minimum income, there it got combined with a similar wider scope paper and then didn't make it to policy. 

My number one issue in the nation is seniors living below the poverty line. Who does that to their elders? Right Wingers do. Seniors in poverty have gotten several back to back 10% increases...slowly getting where I was hoping they would already be: this pharmacare bit and the dental combine to really provide real help for seniors in need. Phaire Pharmacare is there now but it only goes so far for them. After all: everyone will be a senior if they live long enough: it is the best end to work towards eradicating poverty from. We are a wealthy nation, we can do it. 

[Optimist Prime]

Three F35 fighter jets per year with the lifetime maintenance costs would lift every senior out of poverty. We need the jets, but I think we can ALSO do the other thing.

[Sapper]

Today Millhouse and his crew attacked the feds for not lowering the interest rates 

Other than communist countries I'm.not sure what other governments set their countries interest rates 

With a pharma care plan in the horizon it's no surprise the cons are on the attack and Alberta now challenging Trudeau to call the election ... The cons will do anything no matter who gets harmed to keep big Pharma's profits up

 

There has never been and nor will there ever be a pure capitalism run country.

 

Things like the military , police , fire , education, health are socialist based programs.  Without them no country would last.

 

Pharmacare is simply another Item.that is needed so workers can keep building those billions that the corporations want 

 

 

 

[the destroyer of worlds]

9 minutes ago, Sapper said:

Today Millhouse and his crew attacked the feds for not lowering the interest rates 

Other than communist countries I'm.not sure what other governments set their countries interest rates 

With a pharma care plan in the horizon it's no surprise the cons are on the attack and Alberta now challenging Trudeau to call the election ... The cons will do anything no matter who gets harmed to keep big Pharma's profits up

 

There has never been and nor will there ever be a pure capitalism run country.

 

Things like the military , police , fire , education, health are socialist based programs.  Without them no country would last.

 

Pharmacare is simply another Item.that is needed so workers can keep building those billions that the corporations want 

 

 

 

I think they are mad there won't be an election this year.  PP peaked.  A lot can happen between now and 2025.  And they know that the funding for housing JT has been spending around, coupled with this Pharmacare bill won't help PP at the ballot box.

[UnkNuk]

22 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Question for you.  If Trudeau had a majority government and didn’t need Jagmeet to stay in power, do you think he would have agreed to this particular Pharmacare deal?

 

 

Nope.

 

Nor do I believe a majority Liberal government would have introduced the new dental plan.

[UnkNuk]

1 hour ago, Kootenay Gold said:

If they opt out of this Pharmacare Plan then they should have to foot the bill themselves to provide their own version and not expect the federal government to just hand them the cash to do spend as they please. The BS politics in Alberta knows no bounds.

 

The one criticism of the Pharmacare Plan that has some merit IMO is this:  our current health system has a lot of problems.  Waiting lists for surgery, people without family doctor, long wait times in emergency rooms.   Perhaps any extra money devoted to health should go to repairing our current system before bringing in additional services.

 

Personally, I'm okay with either option.

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

 

The one criticism of the Pharmacare Plan that has some merit IMO is this:  our current health system has a lot of problems.  Waiting lists for surgery, people without family doctor, long wait times in emergency rooms.   Perhaps any extra money devoted to health should go to repairing our current system before bringing in additional services.

 

Personally, I'm okay with either option.

 

Not really, access to drugs typically helps keep people out of the rest of the system.

 

Each province also has to develop their own internal solutions for delivery.

[UnkNuk]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

Not really, access to drugs typically helps keep people out of the rest of the system.

 

So does having access to a family doctor who can spot a problem before it gets too bad.  Perhaps the money should be spent on them?

 

7 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

Each province also has to develop their own internal solutions for delivery.

 

Isn't that what Alberta is saying?  That they will decide how health dollars are spent?

[4petesake]

8 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

 

So does having access to a family doctor who can spot a problem before it gets too bad.  Perhaps the money should be spent on them?

 

 

 Last week, B.C. Health Minister Adrian Dix announced that 708 more doctors are practising longitudinal family medicine in the province this year than last year.

 

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-has-gained-708-family-doctors-over-the-last-year-here-s-where-they-re-working-1.6772815?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

[Bob Long]

16 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

 

So does having access to a family doctor who can spot a problem before it gets too bad.  Perhaps the money should be spent on them?

 

 

It's not really an either or situation tho. Why pit these needs against each other?

 

16 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

Isn't that what Alberta is saying?  That they will decide how health dollars are spent?

 

Alberta is being UCP stupid. It's a new federal program, not part of provincial delivery. If it was Poilievre they'd like it.

[UnkNuk]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

It's not really an either or situation tho. Why pit these needs against each other?

 

Because there is a limited amount of money available to spend.  So choices have to be made.

 

Again, I'm okay with spending more money on pharmacare.   Or more family doctors.  Or more surgeries etc.

 

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

Alberta is being UCP stupid. It's a new federal program, not part of provincial delivery. If it was Poilievre they'd like it.

 

If the Alberta government is opposed to this plan simply because it's coming from the federal Liberals/NDP rather than the federal Conservatives then that is, indeed, ridiculous.

 

I was simply trying to point out one argument that I read that I found reasonable.  And,perhaps, that is the reason that the Alberta government has reservations about the plan.