Popular Post Duodenum Posted February 28 Popular Post Share Posted February 28 In my opinion, Liberals in Canada and Democrats in the US have and continue to foster improved relations between groups of racial backgrounds for many decades now. In contrast, Republicans, especially recently, are engaged in a never ending culture war where the focus of politicians lie not in improving their constituents livelihoods, but in whipping up anger against various minority groups (LGBTQ2+ mainly now). Where Democrats cause division is more against Republicans themselves with the Us vs Them attitude and generalizations. I don't know what Wiggums means in regards to Liberals sowing divide due to 'woke-ness'. I don't know what that means or where it comes from . Perhaps he can provide examples. 1 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 7 hours ago, Optimist Prime said: And your theory is that lie would jump the whole shark of police investigation, the crown prosecutor deciding it would likely be a conviction if it goes to trial, then a full trial that needs evidence to convict someone who is presumed innocent until proven beyond a shadow of a doubt GUILTY.... sounds like you would have the same issue with literally any law on the books not just this new one that is proposed. Wouldn't you say? It could be used as a threat to silence critics, including valid ones, even without going the full distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, Master Mind said: It could be used as a threat to silence critics, including valid ones, even without going the full distance. Could you provide a hypothetical example, because I honestly dont follow what your getting at, but historically I agree with most of your thoughts here, so would like to get what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 4 hours ago, Warhippy said: Dude if I say you're bullying me, you're bothering me you're hurting me. That's not subjective. There's nothing subjective about it. It's not for you to decide if your shitty behavior is ok or not if it negatively affects other people By definition, subjective is something that is based on personal opinions and feelings rather than on facts, which would be the case here. It all sounds fine and dandy on the surface to want to eliminate bad behaviour, except when that realization hits that people have differing views on what is acceptable/unacceptable. I've seen countless times people resort to labeling someone as a bully, bigot, hateful, etc. when the evidence is either lacking, or to the contrary. Emotions get involved and skew people's opinions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, Wiggums said: It's what they do. They use extreme terms and call everyone against them racist, bigoted, sexist etc.. knowing that people are easily manipulated and watch the news. "Omg Hunny, according to this news article people on the right are racist!. We can't be involved in that". That's how they took down Trump and that's how they want to take down PP. It's make believe identity politics. The left has set back social relations 50 years by putting it in the forefront like they have. People on the right are sick of the woke bs being shoves up their asses. People want it to go away and it's not because they're bigoted or anti -anything, they want it to go away because it's disgusting that the left uses it as a tool just to stay in power. But yes, there are people on the far right or overly religious types who can be racist and bigoted just like there are people on the far left who can be radical. That's the way it will always be. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 4 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: Could you provide a hypothetical example, because I honestly dont follow what your getting at, but historically I agree with most of your thoughts here, so would like to get what you mean. We've discussed sensitive issues in here, and I think you and I agree that we are capable of discussing things civilly, even when we disagree. However, some people would consider my views as hateful -- despite not actually displaying or holding any hatred in these topics. There is a section of the population that considers anyone not fully on board, or even neutral on a topic, as being hateful. I've even seen critical thinking labeled as hateful, which is ridiculous. I've seen this mentality enforced on other social medias, especially Reddit and pre-Elon Twitter (another nod to what makes CFF so much better) and I fully expect that if I posted the exact same things on other sites, they'd be deleted, or people would threaten I take it down/apologize, claiming that my posts "bully" them or "incite hate" when that is simply not true. I think the mob mentality is already dangerous enough as is, and I'd prefer they don't have another tool at their disposal. This goes for both ways btw, as I think people would abuse this as much as possible in pursuit of pushing their political views. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 38 minutes ago, Master Mind said: Your argument against the porn id is that it won't work/won't be handled well -- can't that same argument be made towards this policy? I very much doubt it would be handled well and without bias. Free VPN services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 13 minutes ago, Master Mind said: We've discussed sensitive issues in here, and I think you and I agree that we are capable of discussing things civilly, even when we disagree. However, some people would consider my views as hateful -- despite not actually displaying or holding any hatred in these topics. There is a section of the population that considers anyone not fully on board, or even neutral on a topic, as being hateful. I've even seen critical thinking labeled as hateful, which is ridiculous. I've seen this mentality enforced on other social medias, especially Reddit and pre-Elon Twitter (another nod to what makes CFF so much better) and I fully expect that if I posted the exact same things on other sites, they'd be deleted, or people would threaten I take it down/apologize, claiming that my posts "bully" them or "incite hate" when that is simply not true. I think the mob mentality is already dangerous enough as is, and I'd prefer they don't have another tool at their disposal. This goes for both ways btw, as I think people would abuse this as much as possible in pursuit of pushing their political views. I do not find your views hateful as much as questionable. I'm sure you feel the same way about my ideas. I'm sure you feel I am biased and have an agenda. You can be sure I feel the same way about you. I think I look at your last paragraph with some agreement apart from my support for the tool being discussed today. Perhaps one day we will be discussing the implementation of porn ids but I sure hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 26 minutes ago, Master Mind said: We've discussed sensitive issues in here, and I think you and I agree that we are capable of discussing things civilly, even when we disagree. However, some people would consider my views as hateful -- despite not actually displaying or holding any hatred in these topics. There is a section of the population that considers anyone not fully on board, or even neutral on a topic, as being hateful. I've even seen critical thinking labeled as hateful, which is ridiculous. I've seen this mentality enforced on other social medias, especially Reddit and pre-Elon Twitter (another nod to what makes CFF so much better) and I fully expect that if I posted the exact same things on other sites, they'd be deleted, or people would threaten I take it down/apologize, claiming that my posts "bully" them or "incite hate" when that is simply not true. I think the mob mentality is already dangerous enough as is, and I'd prefer they don't have another tool at their disposal. This goes for both ways btw, as I think people would abuse this as much as possible in pursuit of pushing their political views. I kinda get you now. When people were chanting defund the p9lice and my wife was echoing them I stuck to my guns. What an absurd slogan. Of course I think there are situations a social worker without a gun can resolve better but I like the police, they keep me and my stuff safer than without the police. She actually got mad at my position thinking I wasn't being progressive, lol. Months later the general trend was that was a stupid slogan. She apologized. Different but similar kind of thing maybe. I will read the bill again tomorrow, only skimm3d it once, maybe there is a dumb part I didn't catch before. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 23 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Free VPN services. Again using your logic, if the porn ids should be avoided because it won't stop all access, then shouldn't this bill be avoided because it won't stop all bullying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 6 minutes ago, Satchmo said: I do not find your views hateful as much as questionable. I'm sure you feel the same way about my ideas. I'm sure you feel I am biased and have an agenda. You can be sure I feel the same way about you. I think I look at your last paragraph with some agreement apart from my support for the tool being discussed today. Perhaps one day we will be discussing the implementation of porn ids but I sure hope not. The feeling is fairly mutual, but I wouldn't say that I think you have an agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Just now, Master Mind said: The feeling is fairly mutual, but I wouldn't say that I think you have an agenda. We all do I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 4 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: I kinda get you now. When people were chanting defund the p9lice and my wife was echoing them I stuck to my guns. What an absurd slogan. Of course I think there are situations a social worker without a gun can resolve better but I like the police, they keep me and my stuff safer than without the police. She actually got mad at my position thinking I wasn't being progressive, lol. Months later the general trend was that was a stupid slogan. She apologized. Different but similar kind of thing maybe. I will read the bill again tomorrow, only skimm3d it once, maybe there is a dumb part I didn't catch before. Agreed, it was an absurd slogan. Sadly, there are still people with this wish, even if it is a smaller amount than before. I think this shares the same mindset as the Kris Rock quote regarding Nazis, and this can be applied elsewhere (fallaciously). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 6 minutes ago, Master Mind said: Again using your logic, if the porn ids should be avoided because it won't stop all access, then shouldn't this bill be avoided because it won't stop all bullying? you guys have spun it into a 'bullying' discussion, apparently in an attempt to discredit the bill for some reason. Its about serious issues like sexual exploitation and other actual crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: you guys have spun it into a 'bullying' discussion, apparently in an attempt to discredit the bill for some reason. Its about serious issues like sexual exploitation and other actual crimes. Not spinning it, it's relevant to the bill. But ok let's apply the same logic to sexual exploitation. Using your logic, if the porn ids should be avoided because it won't stop all access, then shouldn't this bill be avoided because it won't stop all sexual exploitation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 7 minutes ago, Satchmo said: We all do I'd say. Oh shoot you got me, I forgot there's an agenda app on my phone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 10 minutes ago, Master Mind said: Not spinning it, it's relevant to the bill. But ok let's apply the same logic to sexual exploitation. Using your logic, if the porn ids should be avoided because it won't stop all access, then shouldn't this bill be avoided because it won't stop all sexual exploitation? It's also about prosecution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarcore Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 9 hours ago, Alflives said: No problem with keeping porn away from children. IMO that’s the right thing to do. The Internet needs a lot more restrictions. Make it like TV. That is their parents job and not mine. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 31 minutes ago, Gnarcore said: That is their parents job and not mine. It's a bit like the gun argument, law abiding porn users don't need to be punished. Criminals will find workarounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 2 hours ago, Duodenum said: In my opinion, Liberals in Canada and Democrats in the US have and continue to foster improved relations between groups of racial backgrounds for many decades now. In contrast, Republicans, especially recently, are engaged in a never ending culture war where the focus of politicians lie not in improving their constituents livelihoods, but in whipping up anger against various minority groups (LGBTQ2+ mainly now). Where Democrats cause division is more against Republicans themselves with the Us vs Them attitude and generalizations. I don't know what Wiggums means in regards to Liberals sowing divide due to 'woke-ness'. I don't know what that means or where it comes from . Perhaps he can provide examples. It's more borrowed US right wing politics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bob Long said: you guys have spun it into a 'bullying' discussion, apparently in an attempt to discredit the bill for some reason. Its about serious issues like sexual exploitation and other actual crimes. actual crimes?, like the current crimes where criminals get limited sentences. If the bill was truly about preventing "actual crime" then why did it take them over 8 years to come up with this? Crime is out of control in Canada and why is it so much worse with Trudeau at the helm? Edited February 28 by bolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, bolt said: actual crimes?, like the current crimes where criminals get limited sentences. If the bill was truly about preventing "actual crime" then why did it take them over 8 years to come up with this? Crime is out of control in Canada and why is it so much worse with Trudeau at the helm? Ok where are the stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggums Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 15 hours ago, Bob Long said: Is there a particular woke thing up your ass that we should discuss? . Edited February 28 by Wiggums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggums Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 7 hours ago, Master Mind said: By definition, subjective is something that is based on personal opinions and feelings rather than on facts, which would be the case here. It all sounds fine and dandy on the surface to want to eliminate bad behaviour, except when that realization hits that people have differing views on what is acceptable/unacceptable. I've seen countless times people resort to labeling someone as a bully, bigot, hateful, etc. when the evidence is either lacking, or to the contrary. Emotions get involved and skew people's opinions. You are good with your words. Koodos. Take care 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 11 hours ago, Gnarcore said: That is their parents job and not mine. Nope. It’s an easy fix. CRTC rules for TV apply to the Internet. No porn. Zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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