Canadian Politics Thread

[Satchmo]

3 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

 

Why are Christians always subject to ridicule here based on their faith but no other groups ever are? And why are people here labelled hateful or intolerant when they express concerns over parental rights?

 

 

I still don't know if you read the article....

 

Christians are not ridiculed.   Certain evangelical groups have been I suppose.    I do not ridicule the stance of the Muslim people described in the article though I question it and believe it to be wrong.

 

Define parental rights.  It sounds like a catch phrase - like family values or woke - that likely means different things to you and me.

[RupertKBD]

1 minute ago, Satchmo said:

I still don't know if you read the article....

 

Christians are not ridiculed.   Certain evangelical groups have been I suppose.    I do not ridicule the stance of the Muslim people described in the article though I question it and believe it to be wrong.

 

Define parental rights.  It sounds like a catch phrase - like family values or woke - that likely means different things to you and me.

 

This is something that I hear all the time....

 

What the whingers seem to be missing is that nobody has an issue with religious people per se, they have an issue with religious bigots who want to force their morals on the rest of us.....

 

My parents were Catholics, but they never tried to live anyone else's life for them. The current generation could probably learn a thing or two....

[King Heffy]

9 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

This is something that I hear all the time....

 

What the whingers seem to be missing is that nobody has an issue with religious people per se, they have an issue with religious bigots who want to force their morals on the rest of us.....

 

My parents were Catholics, but they never tried to live anyone else's life for them. The current generation could probably learn a thing or two....

Exactly.  I believe in freedom to practice religion, but I also believe in the freedom of others to not have someone else's religious beliefs from being inflicted on them.

[Wiggums]

3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Exactly.  I believe in freedom to practice religion, but I also believe in the freedom of others to not have someone else's religious beliefs from being inflicted on them.

 

So to be clear..  it is not bigoted or intolerant/hateful to protest something like parental rights?

[Satchmo]

23 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

 

So to be clear..  it is not bigoted or intolerant/hateful to protest something like parental rights?

I know I am opening myself up to yet another attack on my reading ability but I don't find that statement clear at all.    Are you discussing a protest for parental right or against parental rights?  (All the while still wondering what 'parental rights' actually are.)

[Wiggums]

13 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

I know I am opening myself up to yet another attack on my reading ability but I don't find that statement clear at all.    Are you discussing a protest for parental right or against parental rights?  (All the while still wondering what 'parental rights' actually are.)

 

This is why I try to ignore responding to you Satchy. 

 

You just shared a link with "parental rights" in the headline, told me to read it, now you're asking me if I read it and what it means.

 

Did you read it?

 

Edited March 8 by Wiggums

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Wiggums said:

 

Why are Christians always subject to ridicule here based on their faith but no other groups ever are? And why are people here labelled hateful or intolerant when they express concerns over parental rights?

 

 

Seems to me that christians are the power behind the potential PM and the US presidency and are the purveyors of some incredibly disgusting and regressive laws.

 

Lemme know when Muslims, Buddhists or those of the Jewish faith start stripping women of basic human rights or worshipping an orange man like a god and we'll address it.

[Warhippy]

41 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

 

So to be clear..  it is not bigoted or intolerant/hateful to protest something like parental rights?

And there is the sudden turn back towards trans issues in kids.

 

Knew it was coming, still not shocked

[Wiggums]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Seems to me that christians are the power behind the potential PM and the US presidency and are the purveyors of some incredibly disgusting and regressive laws.

 

Lemme know when Muslims, Buddhists or those of the Jewish faith start stripping women of basic human rights or worshipping an orange man like a god and we'll address it.

 

"Disgusting and regressive laws" that are supported by people of all different faiths.

 

Do you want to answer? Are all people who protest for parental rights bigoted?

[112]

1 hour ago, Wiggums said:

 

Why are Christians always subject to ridicule here based on their faith but no other groups ever are? And why are people here labelled hateful or intolerant when they express concerns over parental rights?

 

 

i'm not sure about christian ridicule, but "parental rights" is a dog whistle. children have rights, too, and they have a right to be treated in accord with their identified gender regardless of what their parents think.

 

if people have a problem with the public school system, they're welcome to homeschool their kids. the school system should reflect the values of the country, not bend over backwards for people who believe in, e.g., religious dogma.

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Wiggums said:

 

Why are Christians always subject to ridicule here based on their faith but no other groups ever are? And why are people here labelled hateful or intolerant when they express concerns over parental rights?

 

 

 

Because they try to force their beliefs on others.

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, Wiggums said:

 

So to be clear..  it is not bigoted or intolerant/hateful to protest something like parental rights?

It depends what kind of parental rights they expect.  The BS that's happening with the mandatory trans disclosure is absolutely bigoted.  That would qualify as forcing their beliefs on others.

[Satchmo]

38 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

 

This is why I try to ignore responding to you Satchy. 

 

You just shared a link with "parental rights" in the headline, told me to read it, now you're asking me if I read it and what it means.

 

Did you read it?

 

Satchy?

 

I still don't know what "parental rights" are being defined as these days despite the article we both read.  I just wanted to make sure you had read these lines in the article:

 

While MAC warned that Muslim children are at risk of bullying due to their parents' opposition to LGBTQ education, several queer Muslims and allies warn that by advocating for students to be able to opt out of an LGBTQ curriculum, Muslim support of the "parental rights" movement is harming queer Muslims, because it ignores their existence.

"For me, as a gay Muslim … they don't represent me," said one Ontario man, who CBC News is not naming out of concern for backlash against his family. "I find it really disgusting to see such a statement and their support of hatred. I believe this goes against the message of Islam."

 

Resistance to LGBTQ education and gender identity in Canadian schools comes from people from a variety of faiths and socially conservative groups, and it's growing, said Momin Rahman, a sociology professor at Trent University in Peterborough, Ont.

 

He said MAC's stance ignores queer Muslim children who, like other LGBTQ minors, might experience discrimination and bullying if not for education in schools."But it's striking to me that [MAC are] also not considering the fact that there's lots of research [and] evidence showing that children who start to question their gender identity or their sexuality also suffer from discrimination and harassment and bullying in schools. That's been the motivation for a lot of educational policy ... to make schools [an] inclusive environment for everybody."

[Wiggums]

32 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Satchy?

 

I still don't know what "parental rights" are being defined as these days despite the article we both read.  I just wanted to make sure you had read these lines in the article:

 

While MAC warned that Muslim children are at risk of bullying due to their parents' opposition to LGBTQ education, several queer Muslims and allies warn that by advocating for students to be able to opt out of an LGBTQ curriculum, Muslim support of the "parental rights" movement is harming queer Muslims, because it ignores their existence.

"For me, as a gay Muslim … they don't represent me," said one Ontario man, who CBC News is not naming out of concern for backlash against his family. "I find it really disgusting to see such a statement and their support of hatred. I believe this goes against the message of Islam."

 

Resistance to LGBTQ education and gender identity in Canadian schools comes from people from a variety of faiths and socially conservative groups, and it's growing, said Momin Rahman, a sociology professor at Trent University in Peterborough, Ont.

 

He said MAC's stance ignores queer Muslim children who, like other LGBTQ minors, might experience discrimination and bullying if not for education in schools."But it's striking to me that [MAC are] also not considering the fact that there's lots of research [and] evidence showing that children who start to question their gender identity or their sexuality also suffer from discrimination and harassment and bullying in schools. That's been the motivation for a lot of educational policy ... to make schools [an] inclusive environment for everybody."

 

The article describes exactly what the group was protesting

 

Yes I read those lines, they are completely irrelevant to the discussion and questions at hand.  

Edited March 8 by Wiggums

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Wiggums said:

 

The article describes exactly what the group's were protesting

 

Yes I read those lines, they are completely irrelevant to the discussion and questions at hand.  

Yes, it does.

 

I disagree on the relevance of those lines and consider them valid arguments to be made..

 

You may be pleased to hear that I have done my own research.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_rights_movement

 

https://canadians.org/analysis/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-parental-rights-protests/

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/parental-rights-movement-us-canada-1.6796070

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-what-are-parents-rights-groups-actually-fighting-for-in-schools-and-do/

 

It seems to me to be a group of people loudly, and sometimes rudely,  voicing their views.  That's a facet of democracy I suppose but so is opposing it.

 

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

35 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

 

"Disgusting and regressive laws" that are supported by people of all different faiths.

 

Do you want to answer? Are all people who protest for parental rights bigoted?

Bigoted or ignorant. Either way there is no excuse. Protocol for schools handling situations like this have evolved over many years, and are based on past experiences, evidence, and research, to keep kids safe. If a school deems a situation not to be safe for a parent to know,  trust me when I tell you, they have the childs best interests in mind. Is the system perfect, no, but it's the best we got, and it won't change until evidence is presented proving otherwise. A book that was pieced together by a king over 400 years ago has no bearing on the matter. 

[Wiggums]

34 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Bigoted or ignorant. Either way there is no excuse. Protocol for schools handling situations like this have evolved over many years, and are based on past experiences, evidence, and research, to keep kids safe. If a school deems a situation not to be safe for a parent to know,  trust me when I tell you, they have the childs best interests in mind. Is the system perfect, no, but it's the best we got, and it won't change until evidence is presented proving otherwise. A book that was pieced together by a king over 400 years ago has no bearing on the matter. 

 

Well religious people aren't protesting out of ignorance, they're protesting out of faith, so they're either bigoted or they're not.  Which is it?

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Wiggums said:

 

Well religious people aren't protesting out of ignorance, they're protesting out of faith, so they're either bigoted or they're not.  Which is it?

Why rule out ignorance?    That sounds understandably rude but I stand by the question.  

[Wiggums]

1 minute ago, Satchmo said:

Why rule out ignorance?    That sounds understandably rude but I stand by the question.  

 

You'd rule out ignorance if it is a religious protest, because despite how knowledgeable or understanding of the subject they may be, they are strong within their religious beliefs and will protest regardless.

[Bob Long]

17 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

 

Well religious people aren't protesting out of ignorance, they're protesting out of faith, so they're either bigoted or they're not.  Which is it?

 

To hell with their faith. That's not law and shouldn't be.

[Wiggums]

9 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

To hell with their faith. That's not law and shouldn't be.

 

So they're bigoted?

[4petesake]

4 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

 

So they're bigoted?

 

You’ve really got the hots for someone to use the word bigot. I prefer misinformed.

 

Yes it is out of ignorance and a generous dose of fear thrown in for good measure. Lack of understanding what SOGI is, how the school system works or Canadian law regarding rights of a mature minor. Parental rights are limited in scope and to your own children not everyone else’s.

 

If a parent wants their child taught only curriculum supported by their own faith and beliefs they are free to send them to private schools, religious schools of their choosing or to home school them. Public schools teach a wider range of ideas that are open to accepting people of different faiths, different backgrounds, and different gender identities.  Different is not better or worse. Which oddly enough is what SOGI is about, contrary to what ‘parental rights’ protestors believe.

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, Wiggums said:

 

Well religious people aren't protesting out of ignorance, they're protesting out of faith, so they're either bigoted or they're not.  Which is it?

 

Being bigoted means to strongly and unfairly dislike other people or ideas, etc. Protesting doesn't have to mean disliking another group. It could just mean to dislike another group's recent actions while still respecting that group and their ideals.

 

I know you mean to use the term bigot to make things seem more extreme when really it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it.

[Wiggums]

1 minute ago, The Lock said:

 

Being bigoted means to strongly and unfairly dislike other people or ideas, etc. Protesting doesn't have to mean disliking another group. It could just mean to dislike another group's recent actions while still respecting that group and their ideals.

 

I know you mean to use the term bigot to make things seem more extreme when really it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it.

 

People protesting something like parental rights obviously means they have a strong dislike for the idea.  So your answer is yes? 

[Warhippy]

3 hours ago, Wiggums said:

 

"Disgusting and regressive laws" that are supported by people of all different faiths.

 

Do you want to answer? Are all people who protest for parental rights bigoted?

Define parental rights in YOUR words mate.  In YOUR opinion and I'll give you an answer.  Because as a parent I have kids that are subject to the laws of my house.  But as a parent I also know that my kids spend an awful lot of time in school and as such are also subject to those as well to an extent.

 

So why don't you define PARENTAL RIGHTS imn YOUR words and I'll answer that

 

Edit*  Just because they are laws supported by people of faith does not mean the majority support them or are of any faith.  The vocal minority is vocal.

Edited March 8 by Warhippy