Bob Long Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Just now, PeteyBOI said: its a start... getting more funding away from hospitals and keeping the addicts not clogging up the system. more beds and help/staff/counselling away from the ER so others can get the emergency help/care they need I know what you're saying, and I agree in principle. What I don't see is how we deal with the bouncing ball of political motivations. Maybe this happens a bit more under one government, and the next one takes it away. How do we get everyone on the same page? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyBOI Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 of course Edmonton/Alberta is leading the way here, ground work has already being done. Now they just need satellite housing for short term care until rehabilitaion or a setback happens... creating specialized work/help/care for these people should happen. everyone can do their part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyBOI Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I know what you're saying, and I agree in principle. What I don't see is how we deal with the bouncing ball of political motivations. Maybe this happens a bit more under one government, and the next one takes it away. How do we get everyone on the same page? i dont see that happening... unfortunately SIngh is the PM we need... not trudeau or PP... i hate them both. hate is a strong word... what i mean is i hate their smugness Edited March 15 by PeteyBOI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 4 minutes ago, PeteyBOI said: i dont see that happening... unfortunately SIngh is the PM we need... not trudeau or PP... i hate them both. hate is a strong word... what i mean is i hate their smugness I think Singh has good intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 51 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I think Singh has good intentions. I think that being the junior partner in a coalition government is exactly the amount of power that I'm comfortable with. Getting the birth control, pharmacare, and dental programs through has been great, but I don't want the NDP to be controlling the military or foreign policy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, PeteyBOI said: LOL... this will not end well for NDP or the liberals. somehow conservatives just bundelt them all in a group... anyways safe supply is a temporary solution and NDP and the LIberals are playing with our children's lives by feeding them free drugs Children don't get drugs from the government. Safe supply is almost universally at the point of injection sites and does not leave the site. Unsure how or why this claim is gaining traction when the truth is there's almost no gd way this is happening. Kelowna is Alberta's 3rd biggest city and has been the columbian marching powder capital of the west for about 2 decades, every single break up season floods Alberta bars with rig hands shoving more snow up their nose than they enjoy on their overpriced ski do's The fundamental issue with Smith's claims is that it doesn't hold water. Kids don't get drugs from these programs and these programs are universally never leaving the point of distribution 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 minute ago, King Heffy said: I think that being the junior partner in a coalition government is exactly the amount of power that I'm comfortable with. Getting the birth control, pharmacare, and dental programs through has been great, but I don't want the NDP to be controlling the military or foreign policy. agreed on this for sure. So how do we elevate something like drug addiction above politics? because thats whats needed, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, PeteyBOI said: IMOpeople do drugs because they dont feel they fit into society... help them fit into society So...stop forcing people to the fringes by shitting on who they are, how they look, how they identify and what they believe in or who they love and instead embrace and accept them and their lifestyles as just being part of the overall human condition? What a novel idea 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, PeteyBOI said: of course Edmonton/Alberta is leading the way here, ground work has already being done. Now they just need satellite housing for short term care until rehabilitaion or a setback happens... creating specialized work/help/care for these people should happen. everyone can do their part Edmonton is an NDP hot bed of leftist ideas. They're doing ok. but the housing issue etc, Medicine Hat did an incredible job over the last 2 decades. Worth looking at. More so, note in the article where it reminds people the mayors of Canada's largest cities declared homelessness a national disaster issue back in 1998 https://nextcity.org/urbanist-news/medicine-hat-alberta-canada-city-chronic-homelessness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, PeteyBOI said: i dont see that happening... unfortunately SIngh is the PM we need... not trudeau or PP... i hate them both. hate is a strong word... what i mean is i hate their smugness 1 hour ago, Bob Long said: I think Singh has good intentions. I think Singh showed his hand by refusing to campaign and leaving the actual NDP without a voice in parliament for almost 18 months until an absolutely safe riding turned up. He has also spent the entirety of the now almost 5-6 year Liberal/NDP coalition crapping on the Liberals talking tough but doing very little to anything in order to get major parts of the NDP platform accomplished. Drugs, Dental and Daycare are great but the actual laws have not been enshrined as untouchable yet, and the other essential and major parts have not been addressed in environmental protection, first nations water, eliminating childhood hunger and electoral reform. Singh talks a good game, but by virtue of his actions, or lack of actions; his double speak and posturing about the Liberals under Trudeau and unfortunately his religion and the colour of his skin; he will never be PM. Alberta, Sask, Quebec and the Maritimes are not ready for a south east asian leader. They'd never allow it to happen. For the rest of the nation that can happily overlook that; his lack of a backbone and entrenched Con/Lib candidates for decades will not allow for an NDP breakthrough. Layton WAS the only hope the NDP had and he had an expiration date that never allowed them the chance. To be honest, IMO only; the NDP are doing far better now accomplishing what they can in the same manner and fashion as Tommy Douglas did as a minority king maker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Bob Long said: agreed on this for sure. So how do we elevate something like drug addiction above politics? because thats whats needed, imo. You can't. Canada's provinces are run by Conservative governments that are all slowly starting to lean towards social Conservatism as opposed to traditional Conservatism. Drugs and crime have always been a top 5 issue for traditional Conservatives to speak of, but now it's hyper charged and spoken of like somehow someway it's a new thing and all the fault of the Liberals and NDP and that anyone with a moderate addiction or past history of drug use is suspect. IMO it SHOULD absolutely be tied to mental health and the government needs to get tough as hell on repeat offenders and lifetime users in the same way Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland etc have. Mandatory sentences with an eye towards full rehab via medication, mental health assistance, education and capital work gangs for major infrastructure projects. Edited March 15 by Warhippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Free drug programs are a glorified maintenance program. Makes the progressives feel like they are doing something. Why don’t they bring people from Oregon and Washington up and have an open discussion of how their drug programs worked? I think Jimmy’s suggestion that drug use has far deeper roots in society’s effort to cope with change. Many people cannot meet the challenges. I hope I am not misleading his line of thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 24 minutes ago, Warhippy said: The fundamental issue with Smith's claims is that it doesn't hold water. Kids don't get drugs from these programs and these programs are universally never leaving the point of distribution Sadly, those in Alberta who know this but seem to have an irrational fear of Alberta NDP being the equivalent of the Communist Party of Canada won't speak up to dispute Smith's false claims; those who don't know better (or ignorantly and blindly choose to follow Smith regardless of falsehoods she utters) will assume this to be fact, because a person of authority (the Premier) said ti was true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 9 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Free drug programs are a glorified maintenance program. Makes the progressives feel like they are doing something. Why don’t they bring people from Oregon and Washington up and have an open discussion of how their drug programs worked? I think Jimmy’s suggestion that drug use has far deeper roots in society’s effort to cope with change. Many people cannot meet the challenges. I hope I am not misleading his line of thought. I prefer to emulate programs that work like in Portugal. The US medical system can pound sand too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 2 hours ago, PeteyBOI said: LOL... this will not end well for NDP or the liberals. somehow conservatives just bundelt them all in a group... anyways safe supply is a temporary solution and NDP and the LIberals are playing with our children's lives by feeding them free drugs What exactly is "safe" about heroin and cocaine? There is no such thing as "safe heroin" or "safe cocaine". All heroin and all cocaine can kill you. Even the "safe" supply. The government is taking the easy way out by just giving the addicts their "safe" supply. At the end of the day, it doesn't solve any problems other than giving the addict their guaranteed fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: What exactly is "safe" about heroin and cocaine? There is no such thing as "safe heroin" or "safe cocaine". All heroin and all cocaine can kill you. Even the "safe" supply. The government is taking the easy way out by just giving the addicts their "safe" supply. At the end of the day, it doesn't solve any problems other than giving the addict their guaranteed fix. Alcohol can also kill you in the wrong dosage, which is why it's nice to have people knowing whether their drink was made with Absolut vodka or Everclear. It's even better for them to know there's no antifreeze in the cocktail. Same applies for cocaine and heroin; it's much safer if people know what they're taking. Prohibition doesn't work. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyBOI Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: What exactly is "safe" about heroin and cocaine? There is no such thing as "safe heroin" or "safe cocaine". All heroin and all cocaine can kill you. Even the "safe" supply. The government is taking the easy way out by just giving the addicts their "safe" supply. At the end of the day, it doesn't solve any problems other than giving the addict their guaranteed fix. if they continue with the plan of building the safe housing and support houses along with it the plan will work... but we must use the 100M properly before all that money goes up in smoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
112 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 42 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: What exactly is "safe" about heroin and cocaine? There is no such thing as "safe heroin" or "safe cocaine". All heroin and all cocaine can kill you. Even the "safe" supply. The government is taking the easy way out by just giving the addicts their "safe" supply. At the end of the day, it doesn't solve any problems other than giving the addict their guaranteed fix. Most people who use know what their tolerance is and how much they can safely use. It's when things are cut with fentanyl and carfentanyl that overdoses are more common. That's what safe supply means. Are you sure the program doesn't reduce deaths and property crimes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 This weekend, there are people who are going to get hammered. Including teenagers. This weekend there are people who are going to get high. Including teenagers. The people who are getting hammered are going to do so (almost all) with legally produced, taxed, and regulated alcohol. When that person, who may be a teenager, opens that can of Kokanee, they know it isn't laced with stuff. They know the strength of it (5%) The only people getting high who are in the same boat as the people drinking are those consuming legal weed products. This dynamic has been going on for DECADES. Yet, we still have people who think more prohibition, more drug wars, is going to work. It isn't. Legalize, tax, regulate is the only realistic way forward. Safe supply isn't the problem. People like Alberta Premier Moron are the problem. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 2 hours ago, Warhippy said: You can't. Canada's provinces are run by Conservative governments that are all slowly starting to lean towards social Conservatism as opposed to traditional Conservatism. Drugs and crime have always been a top 5 issue for traditional Conservatives to speak of, but now it's hyper charged and spoken of like somehow someway it's a new thing and all the fault of the Liberals and NDP and that anyone with a moderate addiction or past history of drug use is suspect. IMO it SHOULD absolutely be tied to mental health and the government needs to get tough as hell on repeat offenders and lifetime users in the same way Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland etc have. Mandatory sentences with an eye towards full rehab via medication, mental health assistance, education and capital work gangs for major infrastructure projects. but we have to. We have to find a way to take addiction treatment out of the political cycle. Its ridiculous to me to put some kind of morality spin on one type of chemical addiction vs another. How do we get people to agree on that? Edited March 15 by Bob Long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 2 hours ago, Boudrias said: Free drug programs are a glorified maintenance program. Makes the progressives feel like they are doing something. Why don’t they bring people from Oregon and Washington up and have an open discussion of how their drug programs worked? I think Jimmy’s suggestion that drug use has far deeper roots in society’s effort to cope with change. Many people cannot meet the challenges. I hope I am not misleading his line of thought. you're not. But what I'm asking is how do we de-politicize it? until that happens I don't think we reach a conclusion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Just now, Bob Long said: you're not. But what I'm asking is how do we de-politicize it? until that happens I don't think we reach a conclusion. It's going to be hard when you have a significant percentage of people whose political identity is "owning the Libtards". I don't really see how you can get political parties that have these people in the base to agree to progressive ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 58 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Alcohol can also kill you in the wrong dosage, which is why it's nice to have people knowing whether their drink was made with Absolut vodka or Everclear. It's even better for them to know there's no antifreeze in the cocktail. Same applies for cocaine and heroin; it's much safer if people know what they're taking. Prohibition doesn't work. Sleeping pills can also kill you, even Tylenol, if taken in excess. Even water can kill you if you drink too much of it. I read about a person drinking 2 litres of water in 10 minutes and it killed him due to very low sodium levels in the body after the water flushed all the sodium out. At the end of the day, we are talking about hard drugs that were illegal for a very long time for a reason. I never said anything about prohibition per say, but just giving an addict freebies all day long isn't a long term solution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, PeteyBOI said: if they continue with the plan of building the safe housing and support houses along with it the plan will work... but we must use the 100M properly before all that money goes up in smoke I agree. If there is safe housing with support where people can live and be monitored then that is different. Just allowing people to get a free supply of hard drugs to get their "fix" isn't a permanent solution IMO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: Sleeping pills can also kill you, even Tylenol, if taken in excess. Even water can kill you if you drink too much of it. I read about a person drinking 2 litres of water in 10 minutes and it killed him due to very low sodium levels in the body after the water flushed all the sodium out. At the end of the day, we are talking about hard drugs that were illegal for a very long time for a reason. I never said anything about prohibition per say, but just giving an addict freebies all day long isn't a long term solution... That addict is going to all kinds of stuff, including the very horrific variety, to get their fix. And addicts existed for as long as there have been drugs. So prohibition hasn't been a solution either. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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