Bob Long Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 7 minutes ago, Master Mind said: There is definitely room for neutrality. Some will try to make people believe otherwise, which I find to be culty and dangerous. there is room for it, but there are also backbenchers who would love to bring in laws in the name of things like "religious freedom" that have nothing to do with freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: I know you blame Trudeau for rising grocery prices. I know you blame him for not doing enough to tackle corporate greed in that industry. And I know for that specific reason (among many others) you are declaring your allegiance to a party leader with known ties to the Loblaws lobbying group. Which part of that was a lie? Again, you want to show me where I explicitly said I support Pierre Pollieve? Or even the conservative party even? I have said multiple times I will vote for them if need be. If the roles were reversed and it was the conservatives currently in power, I'd still be saying the same thing. This is the difference between me and you. This is a convenient deflection as these are none of the things I was originally accusing you of lieing about Edited March 22 by Ricky Ravioli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 15 minutes ago, The Lock said: I think the problem's more we're at a point where the right wing has taken an unprecedented shift to the right. This leaves a larger gap between the left and the right than there was before which is what makes everything seem so polarizing. In order to get out of this, what has to happen is we have to see the right wing fail so that it can shift back to what it was in the days before Trump, a little closer to the center. I actually think this will happen, because if you go too far to the right, you abandon a large majority of voters including conservatives, which is why we're seeing the Republicans in the US divided. It's why we've seen the PPC gain traction, taking away from the Conservatives. And, to any right wingers out there who think I'm saying these things just to be against the right wing: I'm not. All I'm doing is identifying the problem the right wing has at the moment and showing my want for them to fix their problems. Do you think this hasn't happened on the left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 16 minutes ago, Bob Long said: so, tell me, which group wants to bring in laws that control your rights. Who wants to bring in laws that restrict women's health choices? only one party has tabled that. I'd argue both sides want to do that. The left wants to restrict speech, the right wants to restrict porn. Just a couple examples off the top of my head. 12 minutes ago, Bob Long said: there is room for it, but there are also backbenchers who would love to bring in laws in the name of things like "religious freedom" that have nothing to do with freedom. Assuming this ties into the second half of the first quote, I'm not invested enough on that topic. Perfect example of being neutral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 18 minutes ago, The Lock said: I think the problem's more we're at a point where the right wing has taken an unprecedented shift to the right. This leaves a larger gap between the left and the right than there was before which is what makes everything seem so polarizing. In order to get out of this, what has to happen is we have to see the right wing fail so that it can shift back to what it was in the days before Trump, a little closer to the center. I actually think this will happen, because if you go too far to the right, you abandon a large majority of voters including conservatives, which is why we're seeing the Republicans in the US divided. It's why we've seen the PPC gain traction, taking away from the Conservatives. And, to any right wingers out there who think I'm saying these things just to be against the right wing: I'm not. All I'm doing is identifying the problem the right wing has at the moment and showing my want for them to fix their problems. I'm not disagreeing with your post, but I've seen many progressives say they feel the same way about the left wing. The divide is quite large, it's a shame. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 minutes ago, Master Mind said: I'm not disagreeing with your post, but I've seen many progressives say they feel the same way about the left wing. The divide is quite large, it's a shame. Both sides are pushing the divide even further and it's sooooo frustrating more people don't realize this... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 33 minutes ago, Master Mind said: There is definitely room for neutrality. Some will try to make people believe otherwise, which I find to be culty and dangerous. Are you really asking for civility here? I do not think I have seen any completely neutral posts ITT. Ever. I have seen many posts more civil than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 15 minutes ago, Master Mind said: I'd argue both sides want to do that. The left wants to restrict speech, the right wants to restrict porn. Just a couple examples off the top of my head. dunno, I would think most reasonable people would be OK with making sure hate speech online is controlled better. 15 minutes ago, Master Mind said: Assuming this ties into the second half of the first quote, I'm not invested enough on that topic. Perfect example of being neutral You may not be invested, but I bet your wife or daughter is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 19 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Again, you want to show me where I explicitly said I support Pierre Pollieve? Or even the conservative party even? I have said multiple times I will vote for them if need be. If the roles were reversed and it was the conservatives currently in power, I'd still be saying the same thing. This is the difference between me and you. This is a convenient deflection as these are none of the things I was originally accusing you of lieing about Brother, listen to me. You have already stated that you’d be voting for the Conservatives, and that’s fine. You do you. You have stated that you will not vote for the Liberals or the NDP if they prop up the Liberals. Who is the Party Leader of the Federal Conservatives? Stop feigning where your vote and allegiances lay. Just own it and discuss your likely vote choice, going forward. This is a nonsense discussion. I’m getting tired of the discussions being stalled because you won’t/can’t defend the policies or positions of the likely Party you’ve already intimated that you’re voting for. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 12 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Both sides are pushing the divide even further and it's sooooo frustrating more people don't realize this... what is the "divide" in your view? whats at the root of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 11 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: Brother, listen to me. You have already stated that you’d be voting for the Conservatives, and that’s fine. You do you. You have stated that you will not vote for the Liberals or the NDP if they prop up the Liberals. Who is the Party Leader of the Federal Conservatives? Stop feigning where your vote and allegiances lay. Just own it and discuss your likely vote choice, going forward. This is a nonsense discussion. I’m getting tired of the discussions being stalled because you won’t/can’t defend the policies or positions of the likely Party you’ve already intimated that you’re voting for. The problem is I couldn't care less who the leader is. I'm not choosing my vote solely based on who leads a party? I'm choosing based on how this country has been run the last 8 years. This isn't America and I'm not some wannabe Maga Trump lover who is only voting because he's running. Give me better options and I'll vote for them I have literally been getting in full blown arguments trying to defend my positions as I get quoted by like 3 different people at once, so I like to think I'm doing alright defending positions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 33 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Do you think this hasn't happened on the left? Oh it has ... You can find a few on the left that want a very unrealistic complete socialist rebuild The issue is a few extreme left is a mere drop compared to the massive number of conservatives going to the far extreme right Signs saying stop Harper pale in comparison to the f trudeau z take Trudeau to the train station ( kill him ) , charge him and jail him for life rants from a large number of conservatives Although there is extremes.on both sides thats as far as the similarities go. The right by mountains is more extreme and vocal in its numbers and acts of violence they call.for 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 Just now, Ricky Ravioli said: The problem is I couldn't care less who the leader is. I'm not choosing my vote solely based on who leads a party? I'm choosing based on how this country has been run the last 8 years. This isn't America and I'm not some wannabe Maga Trump lover who is only voting because he's running. Give me better options and I'll vote for them I have literally been getting in full blown arguments trying to defend my positions as I get quoted by like 3 different people at once, so I like to think I'm doing alright defending positions That’s fine. I hear you. Who is the Leader of the Conservative Party? Recall which Party you said, directly or indirectly, you were likely to vote for. You’re starting to be a vexatious poster. Much of your arguments are because you seem to be trying to waffle and speak out of both sides of your mouth. I’m sure you know what this means. I’m getting tired as a Moderator dealing with this back and forth between you and other Members. You are as valued as other Members, of course. I will always defend your right to speak and make an opinion known. All I’m asking is, make your position known, so that the rest of the Members can debate your opinions. Any attacks on you will be dealt with. I assure you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 5 minutes ago, Sapper said: Oh it has ... You can find a few on the left that want a very unrealistic complete socialist rebuild The issue is a few extreme left is a mere drop compared to the massive number of conservatives going to the far extreme right Signs saying stop Harper pale in comparison to the f trudeau z take Trudeau to the train station ( kill him ) , charge him and jail him for life rants from a large number of conservatives Although there is extremes.on both sides thats as far as the similarities go. The right by mountains is more extreme and vocal in its numbers and acts of violence they call.for The moderate right doesn't like to acknowledge how bat shit crazy the fringe on the right really is. CSIS isn't kidding around or playing politics when they warn us about these guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 36 minutes ago, Satchmo said: Are you really asking for civility here? I do not think I have seen any completely neutral posts ITT. Ever. I have seen many posts more civil than others. It's a tall ask, I know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Master Mind said: It's a tall ask, I know. True neutrality would be allowing people to make their own choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said: That’s fine. I hear you. Who is the Leader of the Conservative Party? Recall which Party you said, directly or indirectly, you were likely to vote for. You’re starting to be a vexatious poster. Much of your arguments are because you seem to be trying to waffle and speak out of both sides of your mouth. I’m sure you know what this means. I’m getting tired as a Moderator dealing with this back and forth between you and other Members. You are as valued as other Members, of course. I will always defend your right to speak and make an opinion known. All I’m asking is, make your position known, so that the rest of the Members can debate your opinions. Any attacks on you will be dealt with. I assure you. Yea, I'm very likely to vote conservative. And if Pierre Pollieve sucks too, then when it's time to vote, I'll vote against him too. I don't care who's in power as long as my life isn't being affected. Currently mine is. It's that simple. I just want to see change. If the change sucks, so be it. Then we start again. Well unfortunately I always seem to have like 3 people quoting me and then if I don't respond they claim I'm dodging them. So I'm kinda in a lose/lose situation here. I'm not a troll and as long as I don't insult people I don't see how I would be causing any problems. People don't agree with me quite clearly but is that not why we have these discussions? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 31 minutes ago, Bob Long said: dunno, I would think most reasonable people would be OK with making sure hate speech online is controlled better. I'd have thought that way regarding porn. We've discussed both these topics before and I think we'd just be repeating ourselves if we continue. 31 minutes ago, Bob Long said: You may not be invested, but I bet your wife or daughter is. My wife seems to have the same stance as me. Daughter thinks it's ok in some scenarios, while not others. She's a teenager though, so her opinions surely change day by day. If there's something being proposed that you feel is worth knowing, I'm all ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: The moderate right doesn't like to acknowledge how bat shit crazy the fringe on the right really is. CSIS isn't kidding around or playing politics when they warn us about these guys. Trumps.comments kinda explain the far right mindset when after Charlottetown he said "there is good people on both sides" It legitimized in the far right their belief that their hate.must be accepted as free speech and acknowledged The true old style conservatives we once knew do not exist any more. Canadian conservatism is a nationalist Maga movement We saw O'Toole , Kenny and Mulroney all.speak out about the dangers flames of hate being used .... With the right wing politics is farther to the right than Jason Kenney .... It's no longer conservative In my view 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, Bob Long said: True neutrality would be allowing people to make their own choices. I think this is straying from what I was initially saying. I'm meaning on any given topic, I think it's silly to be labelled as the opposition for not having a strong belief one way or the other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarcore Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Sapper said: Trumps.comments kinda explain the far right mindset when after Charlottetown he said "there is good people on both sides" It legitimized in the far right their belief that their hate.must be accepted as free speech and acknowledged The true old style conservatives we once knew do not exist any more. Canadian conservatism is a nationalist Maga movement We saw O'Toole , Kenny and Mulroney all.speak out about the dangers flames of hate being used .... With the right wing politics is farther to the right than Jason Kenney .... It's no longer conservative In my view When people formerly considered very conservative are being forced out for not being on board you know things are fucked. It's happening down south more and more and examples such as Kenny calling out should be a sign that things aren't business as usual on the right up here. And they had some real whackados to begin with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 10 minutes ago, Master Mind said: There is definitely room for neutrality. Some will try to make people believe otherwise, which I find to be culty and dangerous. Where? Where is this space for neutrality? We're not even gonna have election debates in the USA, and maybe none here either. PP has built his entire campaign AGAINST the mainstream media. So where is that space? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, Master Mind said: I think this is straying from what I was initially saying. I'm meaning on any given topic, I think it's silly to be labelled as the opposition for not having a strong belief one way or the other. It might be silly, or just a mistake, or just a human foible, but no one has jumped to any conclusions about anybody unless they are questioning a point of view. Points of view, topic by topic, are far more important than getting somebody's voting history correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 13 minutes ago, Master Mind said: I think this is straying from what I was initially saying. I'm meaning on any given topic, I think it's silly to be labelled as the opposition for not having a strong belief one way or the other. Maybe. But if someone chooses to ignore eg CSIS warnings, is that neutral or denial? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 38 minutes ago, Master Mind said: I'd have thought that way regarding porn. We've discussed both these topics before and I think we'd just be repeating ourselves if we continue. Listen, just show me a well thought out piece of legislation. What the cpc senator did was political theatre. 38 minutes ago, Master Mind said: My wife seems to have the same stance as me. Daughter thinks it's ok in some scenarios, while not others. She's a teenager though, so her opinions surely change day by day. If there's something being proposed that you feel is worth knowing, I'm all ears. Poilievre will allow backbenchers to put forward laws that chip away at women's rights, you can take that to the bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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