Bob Long Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 3 minutes ago, Gnarcore said: And such a party right now would crush it come election day. Sadly, we don't have that. If someone like Ambrose were leading the CPC I would be far less concerned about them taking over again. PP has shown he'll side with extremists, be needlessly abrasive and not bother to present anything close to a well thought out plan on key issues. He'll avoid knowledge in order to keep the YouTube machine going. Thats not a leader. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 9 hours ago, Miss Korea said: Well it's not about abortion per se, it's about the assertion that there's room for "neutrality". The only people who can maintain neutrality on any issue is someone who has simply not thought about the issue enough. If you want to specifically focus on abortion... know that abortion is a constitutionally protected right in Canada. A woman in Canada can have an abortion for whatever reason they want, whenever they want. No exceptions. Their choice, not mine or the government's or anyone else's. And I think that's how it should be. I guess I'd like to know how @Master Mind justifies being neutral on important issues? take the CSIS warnings about the alt-right growth in Canada, how can one be neutral on that topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 10 hours ago, Miss Korea said: Well it's not about abortion per se, it's about the assertion that there's room for "neutrality". The only people who can maintain neutrality on any issue is someone who has simply not thought about the issue enough. If you want to specifically focus on abortion... know that abortion is a constitutionally protected right in Canada. A woman in Canada can have an abortion for whatever reason they want, whenever they want. No exceptions. Their choice, not mine or the government's or anyone else's. And I think that's how it should be. Actually that’s not true. No medical providers in Canada will perform an abortion after 24 weeks and some provinces won’t even do it after 18 weeks. So a woman cannot have an abortion “whenever she wants”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 8 hours ago, RWMc1 said: What is the status quo and what does little pp plan to do to change it? What is his platform and what is his plan? Presenting himself as an alternative is just bullcrap until he shows us how he will change things. I noticed falcon doing the same thing. "We have a plan." We're just not going to tell anyone what that plan is. So far it's still truedough bad therefore us good. Global recession and wars driving up costs is a ridiculous reason to support what, to me, is religion infiltrating politics. The status-quo is unaffordability, and its seemingly only going to get worse. I know hes talked about some things in regards to housing, and im sure there will be more as we get closer, but ultimately i disagree with the bolded from an analytical standpoint, its not how politics works imo. PP doesnt need utopian solutions when people are broke & tired of the current govt, he just needs to be an alternative to win. Thats democracy for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Smashian Kassian said: The status-quo is unaffordability, and its seemingly only going to get worse. Why? Why are you so certain of this? 1 minute ago, Smashian Kassian said: I know hes talked about some things in regards to housing, and im sure there will be more as we get closer, but ultimately i disagree with the bolded from an analytical standpoint, its not how politics works imo. PP doesnt need utopian solutions when people are broke & tired of the current govt, he just needs to be an alternative to win. Thats democracy for you. So any alternative is better? Vote mystery box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 10 hours ago, Miss Korea said: Well it's not about abortion per se, it's about the assertion that there's room for "neutrality". The only people who can maintain neutrality on any issue is someone who has simply not thought about the issue enough. If you want to specifically focus on abortion... know that abortion is a constitutionally protected right in Canada. A woman in Canada can have an abortion for whatever reason they want, whenever they want. No exceptions. Their choice, not mine or the government's or anyone else's. And I think that's how it should be. 47 minutes ago, Bob Long said: good morning. OK so here's the concern with the CPC, its backbenchers, and Poilievere on this particular issue. The CPC, and PP in particular, has shown a tolerance to allow backbenchers to put forward motions and bills on this issue that would erode women's rights (see: https://www.arcc-cdac.ca/presentations-anti-bills/). I have no doubt whatsoever that PP will continue to allow people like Wagantall to keep doing this. If the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour, you can expect this to happen. Whats really interesting about PP is how he really tries to play each side of the issue when it suits him, see: https://rabble.ca/politics/canadian-politics/the-inconvenient-anti-choice-record-of-poilievre/. But at the end of the day, we know he will allow votes on it. And of course thats his right to do so in a parliamentary democracy. But we just have to look at his history to have a very good idea of what to expect. Good morning. You can also be neutral in the sense that I'm not concerned with what the law currently is, nor would be concerned if it were changed. I'm not advocating to change it from what it currently is. If it were changed, I wouldn't advocate to change it back. Based on that link, it looks like exceptions would still be made if the mother's health is at risk, so I'm just not seeing anything that would make me lose sleep at night. If you guys are more concerned, you do you. Not everyone shares the same level of investment on every topic, and shouldn't be seen as the opposition for not getting involved. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 40 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I guess I'd like to know how @Master Mind justifies being neutral on important issues? take the CSIS warnings about the alt-right growth in Canada, how can one be neutral on that topic? This would be a similar sentiment to my recent reply, but for this example, I think it boils down to individual experiences. For me, it's far-left activists causing more trouble. Slashing tires to prevent driving due to their climate change concerns, or vandalizing street signs with "genocide". Just two recent examples. Not that their concerns aren't valid, but their methods are destructive (at least where I am). I don't doubt that others have have bad experiences with the far-right, but I haven't experienced it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 14 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Actually that’s not true. No medical providers in Canada will perform an abortion after 24 weeks and some provinces won’t even do it after 18 weeks. So a woman cannot have an abortion “whenever she wants”. Fair enough. I did some digging and I found some lady in Montreal who aborted after 36 weeks (health issues). That's crazy late. Seems like late-term abortions are blocked on medical grounds, not legal ones per se. 7 minutes ago, Master Mind said: Good morning. You can also be neutral in the sense that I'm not concerned with what the law currently is, nor would be concerned if it were changed. I'm not advocating to change it from what it currently is. If it were changed, I wouldn't advocate to change it back. Based on that link, it looks like exceptions would still be made if the mother's health is at risk, so I'm just not seeing anything that would make me lose sleep at night. If you guys are more concerned, you do you. Not everyone shares the same level of investment on every topic, and shouldn't be seen as the opposition for not getting involved. "Not concerned" is quite literally a polite why of saying "don't care". My best friend couldn't give a shit about politics. He lives in Edmonton and whenever I tell him about something Danielle Smith said/did, he responds "why do you think I care?" That's what a "space for neutral discussion" looks like with someone who is apathetic. You don't care about abortion either way, legal or illegal. And that's it. That's the end of our debate. Ironically, my friend got two different girls to abort during his early years. He was young and stupid. Still doesn't care about politics though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Why? Why are you so certain of this? Well I just linked the special RCMP report that says as much. Anecdotally you see the price of things, gas, groceries, plus the annual carbon tax increase that'll exasperate that. Nvm the housing market & how unattainable homeownership is for an entire generation. 22 minutes ago, Bob Long said: So any alternative is better? Vote mystery box? A viable alternative yes, correct. The Cons are the only other party to hold office, we arent talking about voting in the communist party or something. Edited March 22 by Smashian Kassian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 The smugness from 2 folks here is just wild. Hahahah Lots of guff going on 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 16 minutes ago, Master Mind said: This would be a similar sentiment to my recent reply, but for this example, I think it boils down to individual experiences. For me, it's far-left activists causing more trouble. Slashing tires to prevent driving due to their climate change concerns, or vandalizing street signs with "genocide". Just two recent examples. Not that their concerns aren't valid, but their methods are destructive (at least where I am). I don't doubt that others have have bad experiences with the far-right, but I haven't experienced it. It boils down to numbers. What you feel or have experienced goes completely against actual statistics. I'm in dark mode so you might have to squint a bit here: Out of the racial hate crimes reported to police, black people were most targeted, followed by brown (Arab/Indian) people. And as you can see, hate crimes based upon sexual orientation have skyrocketed. A white guy on my baseball team once told me he's never experienced racism in Canada during his entire life. My reaction was basically this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 12 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: A viable alternative yes, correct. The Cons are the only other party to hold office, we arent talking about voting in the communist party or something. Just like any alternative to another year of LE was better, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 25 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: Fair enough. I did some digging and I found some lady in Montreal who aborted after 36 weeks (health issues). That's crazy late. Seems like late-term abortions are blocked on medical grounds, not legal ones per se. "Not concerned" is quite literally a polite why of saying "don't care". My best friend couldn't give a shit about politics. He lives in Edmonton and whenever I tell him about something Danielle Smith said/did, he responds "why do you think I care?" That's what a "space for neutral discussion" looks like with someone who is apathetic. You don't care about abortion either way, legal or illegal. And that's it. That's the end of our debate. Ironically, my friend got two different girls to abort during his early years. He was young and stupid. Still doesn't care about politics though. Why is not caring a bad thing, or why would it make someone the opposition? Seems better than a person taking a side for the sake of it, or actively fighting against you. My friends and I rarely talk politics. Nothing good comes from it, same with discussing religion and sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 17 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: Well I just linked the special RCMP report that says as much. Anecdotally you see the price of things, gas, groceries, plus the annual carbon tax increase that'll exasperate that. Nvm the housing market & how unattainable homeownership is for an entire generation. A viable alternative yes, correct. The Cons are the only other party to hold office, we arent talking about voting in the communist party or something. So Alberta just announced a hike to their fuel tax the other day - an extra ¢4/L of gas. Government policy was to remove the tax as a relief initiative whenever the price of WTI went above $80/barrel. Well, the price has been above $80 for a couple weeks now, and they announced the hike anyways. And when does the hike take place? April 1st - the same day the carbon tax hike kicks in (¢3/L increase). Do you think that was a mere coincidence? Who do you think the average Albertan is going to blame when their gas prices go up 7 cents in April? You want to talk about grocery prices again? Sure. Who dictates the price of groceries in this country? The government or the market? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 34 minutes ago, Master Mind said: This would be a similar sentiment to my recent reply, but for this example, I think it boils down to individual experiences. For me, it's far-left activists causing more trouble. Slashing tires to prevent driving due to their climate change concerns, or vandalizing street signs with "genocide". Just two recent examples. Not that their concerns aren't valid, but their methods are destructive (at least where I am). I don't doubt that others have have bad experiences with the far-right, but I haven't experienced it. Slashing tires to prevent climate change? That sound so odd that it likely made the press. Did it? I'd be interested in reading about it. Was the word 'genocide' related to the situation in Gaza? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 11 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: It boils down to numbers. What you feel or have experienced goes completely against actual statistics. I'm in dark mode so you might have to squint a bit here: Out of the racial hate crimes reported to police, black people were most targeted, followed by brown (Arab/Indian) people. And as you can see, hate crimes based upon sexual orientation have skyrocketed. A white guy on my baseball team once told me he's never experienced racism in Canada during his entire life. My reaction was basically this: I mentioned in my post that I'm aware others have different experiences. I was answering the question of how I personally could not be concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 16 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said: The smugness from 2 folks here is just wild. Hahahah Lots of guff going on Well, that comment was a little smug DB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: So Alberta just announced a hike to their fuel tax the other day - an extra ¢4/L of gas. Government policy was to remove the tax as a relief initiative whenever the price of WTI went above $80/barrel. Well, the price has been above $80 for a couple weeks now, and they announced the hike anyways. And when does the hike take place? April 1st - the same day the carbon tax hike kicks in (¢3/L increase). Do you think that was a mere coincidence? Who do you think the average Albertan is going to blame when their gas prices go up 7 cents in April? You want to talk about grocery prices again? Sure. Who dictates the price of groceries in this country? The government or the market? I wouldn't mind the government setting up grocery stores to be honest. Keep profit to a minimum and force the corporations to keep prices reasonable to compete. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Just want to give everyone a suggestion. Watch gas prices right now and for the next 9 days leading up to the april 1st increase. I will be dollars to donuts that companies jack the prices 10 cents or so in the days leading to the 1st and then an additional 10 cents or more after it. Then claim it's the tax knowing people will be pissed off enough to blame the government for it all 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Satchmo said: Slashing tires to prevent climate change? That sound so odd that it likely made the press. Did it? I'd be interested in reading about it. Was the word 'genocide' related to the situation in Gaza? They apparently target vehicles most damaging to the environment, such as trucks, suvs, etc. Guess that's why I was spared since I have a couple of smaller cars. Not sure if it made the press, our local news doesn't even cover when someone is shot in our neighbourhood, so I don't check. I can't see it being anything other than Gaza. Edited March 22 by Master Mind 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Just now, Master Mind said: They apparently target vehicles most damaging to the environment, such as trucks, suvs, etc. Guess that's why I was spared since I have a couple of smaller cars. Not sure if it made the press, our local news doesn't even cover when someone is shot in our neighbourhood, so I don't check. I assume it's regarding Gaza. Then both things really could have been apolitical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 16 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Just like any alternative to another year of LE was better, right? Yes, this is democracy afterall. 4 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: So Alberta just announced a hike to their fuel tax the other day - an extra ¢4/L of gas. Government policy was to remove the tax as a relief initiative whenever the price of WTI went above $80/barrel. Well, the price has been above $80 for a couple weeks now, and they announced the hike anyways. And when does the hike take place? April 1st - the same day the carbon tax hike kicks in (¢3/L increase). Do you think that was a mere coincidence? Who do you think the average Albertan is going to blame when their gas prices go up 7 cents in April? You want to talk about grocery prices again? Sure. Who dictates the price of groceries in this country? The government or the market? Of course not, and frankly its an unsurprising disregard for integrity but pretty smart politicking, thats the game it is. The government controls many factors that influence the market, they are the managers of our economy after-all. Obviously some things on a global scale are out of there control, but some things on a national level are. Ultimately any cost that's put on grocery chains logically gets passed on to us - and they do have some level of influence. (They are all we got) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, Master Mind said: Why is not caring a bad thing, or why would it make someone the opposition? Seems better than a person taking a side for the sake of it, or actively fighting against you. My friends and I rarely talk politics. Nothing good comes from it, same with discussing religion and sex. Not caring... is neither good nor is it bad. It's just nothing. It's the end of that conversation. I don't care about... quantum physics. I don't care about avant-garde art. I don't care about volleyball. So when someone tells me they're neutral on volleyball, who's gonna keep talking about volleyball? But that's exactly what you've done here. You just said you rarely talk politics because you think nothing good comes from it. You're probably right... but then what are you doing here? If you don't care about something (ie. abortion), what are you expecting us to say in response? 1 minute ago, Master Mind said: I mentioned in my post that I'm aware others have different experiences. I was answering the question of how I personally could not be concerned. Right, and I'm telling you that the country as a whole has experienced a spike in hate crimes. As someone who is not white, I can partly attest to that - no hate crimes but certainly racism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duodenum Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I think we can all agree this is unsustainable and will bring more homelessness, more crime, etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 9 minutes ago, Duodenum said: I think we can all agree this is unsustainable and will bring more homelessness, more crime, etc. Only in the sense that more people will mean more crime, not in that immigrants commit more crimes than non immigrants. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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