Canadian Politics Thread

[Master Mind]

8 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Not caring... is neither good nor is it bad.  It's just nothing.  It's the end of that conversation.  I don't care about... quantum physics.  I don't care about avant-garde art.  I don't care about volleyball.  So when someone tells me they're neutral on volleyball, who's gonna keep talking about volleyball?  But that's exactly what you've done here.  You just said you rarely talk politics because you think nothing good comes from it.  You're probably right... but then what are you doing here?  If you don't care about something (ie. abortion), what are you expecting us to say in response?

 

 

Right, and I'm telling you that the country as a whole has experienced a spike in hate crimes.  As someone who is not white, I can partly attest to that - no hate crimes but certainly racism.

 

I said I rarely talk politics with my friends, not in general such as here. I don't expect you to say anything in response, that's the point. If someone doesn't care, that's all there is to it, they're not the opposition. Some people claim that if you're neutral, you're against them. That's what I was arguing against. It sounds like we agree.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your last point.

[Satchmo]

8 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

 

I think we can all agree this is unsustainable and will bring more homelessness, more crime, etc. 

 

 

I think we can all agree this is unsustainable.

[Miss Korea]

3 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

 

I think we can all agree this is unsustainable and will bring more homelessness, more crime, etc. 

 

Well, you're just not thinking very hard then if you think we're all in agreement here.

 

Put some thought into what you're saying here.  What immigration number are you looking for?  And what do you think will be the ramifications of that number?

[112]

1 minute ago, Satchmo said:

I think we can all agree this is unsustainable.

Absolutely. Of all the things people try to pin on the Liberal government, immigration is one that actually holds water imo. Immigration is typically a good thing for a country like Canada (our population would be shrinking without it), but these numbers are far too high, especially with the housing crisis.

[Master Mind]

19 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Then both things really could have been apolitical.

 

Pretty obvious that it was political.

 

I'm not sure why it's so common for people to assume they might know more than me about my personal life, my kid's life, or my neighbourhood.

 

If you don't believe me, or if you think I have anything to gain by lying, then feel free to not engage with me.

[Miss Korea]

16 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Yes, this is democracy afterall.

 

Of course not, and frankly its an unsurprising disregard for integrity but pretty smart politicking, thats the game it is. 

 

The government controls many factors that influence the market, they are the managers of our economy after-all. Obviously some things on a global scale are out of there control, but some things on a national level are. Ultimately any cost that's put on grocery chains logically gets passed on to us - and they do have some level of influence. (They are all we got)

 

Yes, the federal government does have an assortment of policy tools they can implement to try and influence grocery prices.

 

Strictly talking about this subject, which policies are you dissatisfied with the Liberals over?

 

2 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

 

I said I rarely talk politics with my friends, not in general such as here. I don't expect you to say anything in response, that's the point. If someone doesn't care, that's all there is to it, they're not the opposition. Some people claim that if you're neutral, you're against them. That's what I was arguing against. It sounds like we agree.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your last point.

 

My point isn't counter to yours - it's a different point I'm trying to make here.  Neutrality... is simply not a political stance in society.  You came into this thread and announced, "Hey world - I'm neutral on abortion!"  Alright, well thanks for coming, I guess.  Without a real stance, there is no discussion or contribution to be made.

 

I will say this, however.  A textbook Conservative/Republican strategy is to invoke voter apathy.  Getting a Liberal voter to not vote next election is almost as effective as getting them to switch sides.

[Satchmo]

Just now, Master Mind said:

 

Pretty obvious that it was political.

 

I'm not sure why it's so common for people to assume they might know more than me about my personal life, my kid's life, or my neighbourhood.

 

If you don't believe me, or if you think I have anything to gain by lying, then feel free to not engage with me.

I am most definitely not saying you are lying.   I am saying that it is possible you have come to the wrong conclusion.

 

I see no concrete proof that either action you described were political in nature.   It is often impossible to know the motives of people who do stupid things.

 

Certainly, as far as acts regarding the crisis in Gaza are concerned, ethnicity and or religion can play a greater role than politics.

 

Can you truly say anything more than you think these actions were performed by left wing extremists?

[Ricky Ravioli]

5 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

I am most definitely not saying you are lying.   I am saying that it is possible you have come to the wrong conclusion.

 

I see no concrete proof that either action you described were political in nature.   It is often impossible to know the motives of people who do stupid things.

 

Certainly, as far as acts regarding the crisis in Gaza are concerned, ethnicity and or religion can play a greater role than politics.

 

Can you truly say anything more than you think these actions were performed by left wing extremists?

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/targeting-the-wrong-people-frustration-as-activist-group-deflates-tires-on-dozens-of-vancouver-island-suvs-

 

1.6010470https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/climate-activists-deflate-tires-of-43-suvs-on-beacon-hill/

 

Climate activists typically lean pretty left

[Master Mind]

3 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

My point isn't counter to yours - it's a different point I'm trying to make here.  Neutrality... is simply not a political stance in society.  You came into this thread and announced, "Hey world - I'm neutral on abortion!"  Alright, well thanks for coming, I guess.  Without a real stance, there is no discussion or contribution to be made.

 

I will say this, however.  A textbook Conservative/Republican strategy is to invoke voter apathy.  Getting a Liberal voter to not vote next election is almost as effective as getting them to switch sides.

 

I said that in response to being asked an example of something I'm neutral towards. I wouldn't have said it otherwise. Point being that I'm not against you if I'm not with you, so I do think it's a valid stance to have. People considering me as being against them on that topic are creating more opposition in their minds than there is in reality.

 

I'm not encouraging voter apathy. It's good for people to vote.

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Ricky Ravioli said:

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/targeting-the-wrong-people-frustration-as-activist-group-deflates-tires-on-dozens-of-vancouver-island-suvs-

 

1.6010470https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/climate-activists-deflate-tires-of-43-suvs-on-beacon-hill/

 

Climate activists typically lean pretty left

They likely do.  And fuck them for being twits.   

 

This is what I'd expect to hear from misguided activists (as opposed to your average misguided vandal):

 

The Tyre Extinguishers left flyers on the windshield. The last line tells drivers "you'll have no trouble getting around without your gas guzzler, by walking cycling or using public transit."

[Master Mind]

8 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

I am most definitely not saying you are lying.   I am saying that it is possible you have come to the wrong conclusion.

 

I see no concrete proof that either action you described were political in nature.   It is often impossible to know the motives of people who do stupid things.

 

Certainly, as far as acts regarding the crisis in Gaza are concerned, ethnicity and or religion can play a greater role than politics.

 

Can you truly say anything more than you think these actions were performed by left wing extremists?

 

I can assure you that I consider other angles before forming my conclusions.

 

Looks like Ricky provided the type of evidence you were looking for.

[Boudrias]

41 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Yes, this is democracy afterall.

 

 

Of course not, and frankly its an unsurprising disregard for integrity but pretty smart politicking, thats the game it is. 

 

The government controls many factors that influence the market, they are the managers of our economy after-all. Obviously some things on a global scale are out of there control, but some things on a national level are. Ultimately any cost that's put on grocery chains logically gets passed on to us - and they do have some level of influence. (They are all we got)

 

I believe all levels of government now control over 50% of the economy. I assume that includes crown corporations. Just as progressives point to price gouging by private corporations as their red flag to gather their support they ignore the costs caused by the very governments they try to defend. Capital doesn’t care whether it is government owned or private. Public companies produce statements that discuss their return on capital. I don’t think I have ever seen the equivalent from most governments other than crown corporations. 
 

I suggest the return on invested capital for utilities like Fortis is higher than that achieved by Loblaws. 

[Satchmo]

Just now, Master Mind said:

 

I can assure you that I consider other angles before forming my conclusions.

 

Looks like Ricky provided the type of evidence you were looking for.

Nope, he did not.   But I am done on this for a while as it does not seem worth the time.   I have to admit I'm becoming - as per your definition - neutral.

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

My neighbour had his catalytic converter stolen a couple of months ago. Pretty sure it was the liberals

Edited March 22 by JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

[Miss Korea]

12 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

 

I said that in response to being asked an example of something I'm neutral towards. I wouldn't have said it otherwise. Point being that I'm not against you if I'm not with you, so I do think it's a valid stance to have. People considering me as being against them on that topic are creating more opposition in their minds than there is in reality.

 

I'm not encouraging voter apathy. It's good for people to vote.

 

Alright not to dwell on abortion too much, but the legal position is Canada is 100% pro-choice.  We are already on the far end of that spectrum and there's only one direction you can move the needle in.  Any deviation from that is obviously going to be led by a firm pro-lifer.  Cathay Wagantall is the resident pro-lifer in the House of Commons.  She is hellbent on reducing women's autonomy through legislation.  And if your response to that is "let her - I don't care", that's not neutrality.  That's... complacent apathy.

 

Maybe you picked a bad example.  But understand that apathy is the Conservatives' best friend.

 

1 minute ago, Master Mind said:

 

I can assure you that I consider other angles before forming my conclusions.

 

Looks like Ricky provided the type of evidence you were looking for.

 

I don't understand.  Why on earth would you place more value in individual stories as opposed to hard statistics?  Racial hate crimes have gone up.  Gender hate crimes have gone up.  Disproportionately.  You keep trying to tell us that ecoterrorism is what's plaguing this country... when that is simply wrong.  There's no debate.  You simply don't have the reported numbers to support that kind of argument.  Provincial governments aren't really worried about it... CSIS isn't really worried about it... the goddamned POLICE aren't worried about it... so where's the hard evidence?

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Well I just linked the special RCMP report that says as much.

 

Anecdotally you see the price of things, gas, groceries, plus the annual carbon tax increase that'll exasperate that. Nvm the housing market & how unattainable homeownership is for an entire generation. 

 

 

A viable alternative yes, correct. The Cons are the only other party to hold office, we arent talking about voting in the communist party or something.

 

 

So basically a blank cheque for Poilievere is better than the current government? man you have more faith than I do. 

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Master Mind said:

 

 

Good morning.

 

You can also be neutral in the sense that I'm not concerned with what the law currently is, nor would be concerned if it were changed. I'm not advocating to change it from what it currently is. If it were changed, I wouldn't advocate to change it back.

 

Based on that link, it looks like exceptions would still be made if the mother's health is at risk, so I'm just not seeing anything that would make me lose sleep at night. If you guys are more concerned, you do you. Not everyone shares the same level of investment on every topic, and shouldn't be seen as the opposition for not getting involved.

 

no of course interest levels do change. But you do realize that taking a neutral stance is still a stance that has consequences? could even be for your family down the line, unintentionally. 

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Master Mind said:

 

This would be a similar sentiment to my recent reply, but for this example, I think it boils down to individual experiences.

 

For me, it's far-left activists causing more trouble. Slashing tires to prevent driving due to their climate change concerns, or vandalizing street signs with "genocide". Just two recent examples. Not that their concerns aren't valid, but their methods are destructive (at least where I am). I don't doubt that others have have bad experiences with the far-right, but I haven't experienced it.

 

but no one running government today is openly standing with the tire slashers, or writing laws that would force you to redefine how you view your bodily autonomy. 

 

I don't see anyone one the far left running their truck into a gate, jumping out with a rifle looking to kill the PM.

 

[Master Mind]

5 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Alright not to dwell on abortion too much, but the legal position is Canada is 100% pro-choice.  We are already on the far end of that spectrum and there's only one direction you can move the needle in.  Any deviation from that is obviously going to be led by a firm pro-lifer.  Cathay Wagantall is the resident pro-lifer in the House of Commons.  She is hellbent on reducing women's autonomy through legislation.  And if your response to that is "let her - I don't care", that's not neutrality.  That's... complacent apathy.

 

Maybe you picked a bad example.  But understand that apathy is the Conservatives' best friend.

 

 

I don't understand.  Why on earth would you place more value in individual stories as opposed to hard statistics?  Racial hate crimes have gone up.  Gender hate crimes have gone up.  Disproportionately.  You keep trying to tell us that ecoterrorism is what's plaguing this country... when that is simply wrong.  There's no debate.  You simply don't have the reported numbers to support that kind of argument.  Provincial governments aren't really worried about it... CSIS isn't really worried about it... the goddamned POLICE aren't worried about it... so where's the hard evidence?

 

Disagree on the first point. It would be neutral, as I'd have the same stance if it was illegal and people were advocating to make it legal.

 

The second point was in response to how one could not be overly concerned with those activists. I'm not going to be that concerned about them when it's other activists causing more issues where I am.

[Master Mind]

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

no of course interest levels do change. But you do realize that taking a neutral stance is still a stance that has consequences? could even be for your family down the line, unintentionally. 

 

Sure, but that could be the case no matter what my stance is.

 

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

but no one running government today is openly standing with the tire slashers, or writing laws that would force you to redefine how you view your bodily autonomy. 

 

I don't see anyone one the far left running their truck into a gate, jumping out with a rifle looking to kill the PM.

 

 

And no one running for government is openly standing with those wanting the PM dead. Also weren't there recently far left activists sending death threats Trudeau's way? My understanding is that we were talking about how people on the extreme ends are behaving, not whether the parties are condoning the behaviour.

[Bob Long]

8 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

 

Sure, but that could be the case no matter what my stance is.

 

 

And no one running for government is openly standing with those wanting the PM dead. Also weren't there recently far left activists sending death threats Trudeau's way? My understanding is that we were talking about how people on the extreme ends are behaving, not whether the parties are condoning the behaviour.

 

Lots of alt right folks at the trucker rally that would love to see Trudeau dead.

[Miss Korea]

10 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

 

Disagree on the first point. It would be neutral, as I'd have the same stance if it was illegal and people were advocating to make it legal.

 

The second point was in response to how one could not be overly concerned with those activists. I'm not going to be that concerned about them when it's other activists causing more issues where I am.

 

IF it were illegal.  But it's not.  Your (Canadian) world in which abortion is illegal has not existed since 1988.  So right now there's a party actively pushing for legislation to introduce fetal rights - a party that voted unanimously for Wagantall's bill.  So if you "don't care" about women's rights getting eroded... does that sound "neutral" to you?

 

As for activists causing those issues where you live.  How do you reconcile that with the fact that the rest of the country is experiencing a different class of hate crimes at an unbelievably higher rate?  Or better yet, how do you reconcile that with my own experiences where I live, where I have seen those hate crimes from the far right groups?  Obviously what is happening in your neighbourhood is not a national-scale problem.  If it were, you'd see it in the numbers.  You simply don't have the data to support your claim.  

[Master Mind]

9 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Lots of alt right folks at the trucker rally that would love to see Trudeau dead.

 

Not all, it's probably a small percentage. I know some people that went, and they were upset that they were put out of work, had their businesses closed, etc. Makes sense that Pierre would go to win them over.

[Master Mind]

2 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

IF it were illegal.  But it's not.  Your (Canadian) world in which abortion is illegal has not existed since 1988.  So right now there's a party actively pushing for legislation to introduce fetal rights - a party that voted unanimously for Wagantall's bill.  So if you "don't care" about women's rights getting eroded... does that sound "neutral" to you?

 

As for activists causing those issues where you live.  How do you reconcile that with the fact that the rest of the country is experiencing a different class of hate crimes at an unbelievably higher rate?  Or better yet, how do you reconcile that with my own experiences where I live, where I have seen those hate crimes from the far right groups?  Obviously what is happening in your neighbourhood is not a national-scale problem.  If it were, you'd see it in the numbers.  You simply don't have the data to support your claim.  

 

Yes it's neutral, it doesn't concern me.

 

Again, I'm saying my personal experience, not what's happening everywhere to everyone.

[Miss Korea]

3 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

 

Yes it's neutral, it doesn't concern me.

 

Again, I'm saying my personal experience, not what's happening everywhere to everyone.

 

In that case, I'm also going to assume you don't care about the rise in racial hate crimes either.  Nor would you care about the rise in gender hate crimes.  The entire world could be burning around you, but you don't care as long as you remain unscathed.  Is that right?  That's what you think being neutral is?

 

I'm gonna ask you again.  What's more important for the federal government to deal with: something that's happening in your personal experience, or something that's happening everywhere else to everyone else?  What do you think is the bigger issue in Canadian society?