Canadian Politics Thread

[Miss Korea]

20 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I got rid of my oil furnace very late in 2022, when i bought my latest house. Heat Pump ever since: I got a 5k rebate at the time federally and another thousand or so provincially, and then a surprise additional grant of 6k that was authorized retroactively early this year, going back to when i did my thing. So my 18.5 thousand costs of the job, including removing old ductwork covered in asbestos and installing new ductwork was covered with rebates and grants totalling 11k: so my out of pocket costs are now just 7ish thousand on the job. I have no idea yet how much I am saving vs oil but my total electrical costs and my only energy costs are electrical now, for the entire year of 2023 was $1815.43 or 150 a month. roughly 5 bucks a day.  Oil heating this place over winter would have been insane as per this article linked and quoted below:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-heating-oil-cost-1.6627175

Granted these numbers are for PEI, not Vancouver Island, so it is probably double what my numbers would have been, but even at half these numbers, I am saving HUGE, considering my 5 bucks a day is total energy used: lights, hot water, dryer, AND heat. 

 

I would do this a thousand times over again if i had to as I am convinced I made the right choice. 

 

Ah - you already did get government rebates then.  That's good!

 

18 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

wealthy polluters have too much money to care

 

low income polluters get rebates, as you say likely get as much back as they pay in the tax

 

middle income polluters get squeezed and screwed in yet another avenue of ever increasing costs amid stagnant wages. Perhaps if the economy was doing fabulous and so many people weren't struggling to stay afloat i could justify the pollution payments for average joes but it just fucking sucks these days to see middle class earners get fucked by the annually increasing carbon tax when in the grand scheme of things globally Canada is a minuscule contributor to climate change and the little effect the incentive may have to change our behaviours isn't going to stop forest fires and the like from continuing.

 

Don't take this personally, but that is exactly the type of attitude that frustrates me about Canadians.  The average middle class lifestyle in this country is unsustainable given how much damage climate change is about to/has already inflicted on our economy. 

 

You want to stop forest fires?  Tell that to Alberta,where the UCP cut 30% of the forest firefighter staff.  How much money was saved when you add the cost of firefighters across Canada being flown in, evacuations and aid, plus the long-term environmental damage?

 

The federal government has the ability to influence consumption habits of over 40,000,000 people.  It's not about what other countries are doing.  We don't have a world government that can punish Our country needs to what it can to lower emissions. 

 

For what it's worth, I think other countries (maybe excluding the US) have infinitely superior transportation infrastructure.  Even if we built houses for everyone who needed one, the amount of traffic (and indeed pollution) it would generate would offset all the efforts this country has put in.

Edited March 23 by Miss Korea

[Optimist Prime]

2 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

 

Don't take this personally, but that is exactly the type of attitude that frustrates me about Canadians.  The average middle class lifestyle in this country is unsustainable given how much damage climate change is about to/has already inflicted on our economy. 

 

You want to stop forest fires?  Tell that to Alberta,where the UCP cut 30% of the forest firefighter staff.  How much money was saved when you add the cost of firefighters across Canada being flown in, evacuations and aid, plus the long-term environmental damage?

 

The federal government has the ability to influence consumption habits of over 40,000,000 people.  It's not about what other countries are doing.  We don't have a world government that can punish Our country needs to what it can to lower emissions. 

 

For what it's worth, I think other countries (maybe excluding the US) have infinitely superior transportation infrastructure.  Even if we built houses for everyone who needed one, the amount of traffic (and indeed pollution) it would generate would offset all the efforts this country has put in.

I do agree there, we would do well to work towards mass transit solutions rather than what we see every day: dudes alone in pickup trucks with nothing in the box to be hauled, simply commuting an hour each way to work. Seems really dumb to me. 

Even the old loggers "crummy" was a better commute solution than we currently see. One truck would drive to all my dad's buddies houses and pick them up like a school bus for loggers: and then the full vehicle would head out to the woods early in the morning and bring them home for supper in the evening. Way better than now where we see 30 pickups heading to the jobsite with nothing in them but one driver each, and each a "Proud Canadian" with a F*^4 Trudeau flag in their back window. It feels like those guys are cutting off their nose to spite their face. 

[PureQuickness]

7 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Just had time to check on Peter Poutine's attempt to force a Non-Confidence vote: 204 MP's voted to keep the Trudeau Government. 116 voted Non-Confidence. 

 

For the record there are 118 conservatives MP's. lol. 

 

What a massive fail. 

 

This was really designed as a PR stunt because that's all this guy can offer - soundbites and no real solutions, and my observation here is not to support Trudeau whatsoever. I just think PP is a shitty candidate in general. 

 

I consider myself a moderate that is open to different parties, but the Conservatives are not getting my vote if they prop up this 'leader' as their figurehead. This guy is showing that he's no better at being a leader than Trudeau is. The fact that he went all-in to force a government out on a pretty weak issue (and losing in the process) shows that PP has no vision whatsoever.

 

Carbon tax is a controversial issue, I admit this, but trying to force out an unpopular government (The Libs) and LOSING in the process shows that PP is not the man for the job. He should honestly resign as leader. The Conservatives are in need of an overhaul. They are copying too many notes from the US and that country over there is an even bigger disaster than in Canada.

 

PP has shown that he is a contrarian for the sake of being one. He is a business leader and a landlord - hilariously contradictory to many Canadians who are concerned about the housing crisis. I get that people are desperate to replace Trudeau who is unpopular at this stage in the game, but PP is not the solution. Once more, the Conservatives have hedged their bets on a weak politician.

 

It's ridiculous how there's not a qualified politician that can offer solutions to Canadians while promising to work with other politicians (regardless of party). I think that's what most Canadians would want. However, PP has failed to capitalize on this.

 

Edited March 23 by PureQuickness

[Optimist Prime]

2 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

This was really designed as a PR stunt because that's all this guy can offer - soundbites and no real solutions, and my observation here is not to support Trudeau whatsoever. I just think PP is a shitty candidate in general. 

 

I consider myself a moderate that is open to different parties, but the Conservatives are not getting my vote if they prop up this 'leader' as their figurehead. This guy is showing that he's no better at being a leader than Trudeau is. The fact that he went all-in to force a government out on a pretty weak issue (and losing in the process) shows that PP has no vision whatsoever.

 

Carbon tax is a controversial issue, I admit this, but trying to force out an unpopular government (The Libs) and LOSING in the process shows that PP is not the man for the job. He should honestly resign as leader. The Conservatives are in need of an overhaul. They are copying too much notes from the US and that country over there is an even bigger disaster than in Canada.

 

I personally like PM JT, but I have spent time talking with him over the years, so I know I am a bit biased. Honestly, if a better candidate was a leader of another party, I would consider them: currently there is no better candidate leading a party in the House. I only disagree with the BLOC HEAD on his views of Quebec independence, but if he was a nationalist in Canada's corner, with candidates coast to coast to coast, I kind of like his policies that aren't Quebecois Centric. So for now, I am still on board with PM JT. He is still better than the opposition. 

[Chicken.]

2 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Ah - you already did get government rebates then.  That's good!

 

 

Don't take this personally, but that is exactly the type of attitude that frustrates me about Canadians.  The average middle class lifestyle in this country is unsustainable given how much damage climate change is about to/has already inflicted on our economy. 

 

You want to stop forest fires?  Tell that to Alberta,where the UCP cut 30% of the forest firefighter staff.  How much money was saved when you add the cost of firefighters across Canada being flown in, evacuations and aid, plus the long-term environmental damage?

 

The federal government has the ability to influence consumption habits of over 40,000,000 people.  It's not about what other countries are doing.  We don't have a world government that can punish Our country needs to what it can to lower emissions. 

 

For what it's worth, I think other countries (maybe excluding the US) have infinitely superior transportation infrastructure.  Even if we built houses for everyone who needed one, the amount of traffic (and indeed pollution) it would generate would offset all the efforts this country has put in.

I don't mind if my viewpoint frustrates you as anecdotally it is a very common one in my life.

If the average middle class lifestyle, as it currently stands, is unsustainable then we are in bigger trouble than I thought. I don’t think the middle class is living lavishly.
Honestly depressing thinking of this Countries future economic prospects.

On a per capita basis we are not doing well and how people are content with it is frustrating as hell. 
Lower emissions at all costs to Canadians when it doesn't make a dent in the global scheme of things? No thanks.

Invest in tech, or attract investors in tech, that helps improve the economy long-term by opening up new industries and lower emissions worldwide via more efficient technology? Yes please. This could include more transportation infrastructure to lessen the need for gas vehicles. 

[Master Mind]

3 hours ago, The Lock said:

@Master Mind @Ricky Ravioli

 

I forgot this wasn't the US politics thread. lol

 

However, a lot of what I've said still stands with some differences. The Liberal party itself has shifted left though and I'm not going to argue against that if that's what you were implying. Poilievre though does seem intent on at least shifting the Conservatives a little to the right and the PPC is  pretty active at the same time and they didn't exist before Trump..

 

It appears to be a bigger issue in the US, but yes both seem to have shifted here as well to a degree.

 

I was also commenting on how supporters act, not just the parties, where there appears to be more people with extreme beliefs, and other people who support the same party unhappy with that behaviour.

[PureQuickness]

7 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I personally like PM JT, but I have spent time talking with him over the years, so I know I am a bit biased. Honestly, if a better candidate was a leader of another party, I would consider them: currently there is no better candidate leading a party in the House. I only disagree with the BLOC HEAD on his views of Quebec independence, but if he was a nationalist in Canada's corner, with candidates coast to coast to coast, I kind of like his policies that aren't Quebecois Centric. So for now, I am still on board with PM JT. He is still better than the opposition. 

 

Yes, I respect your views and I respect the fact that you can admit that you're biased. That is nothing to be ashamed of. Everyone should be honest with how they come to their conclusions.

[Master Mind]

6 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

Lower emissions at all costs to Canadians when it doesn't make a dent in the global scheme of things? No thanks.

 

I've seen some people want to outright ban all personal transportation for this. I understand wanting to make a positive difference, but sometimes it's just ridiculous.

[Bob Long]

8 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

 

I've seen some people want to outright ban all personal transportation for this. I understand wanting to make a positive difference, but sometimes it's just ridiculous.

 

It's hardly a mainstream take by the NDP tho. Sure some guy writing for the Tyee might suggest something like that.

[bolt]

38 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I personally like PM JT, but I have spent time talking with him over the years, so I know I am a bit biased. Honestly, if a better candidate was a leader of another party, I would consider them: currently there is no better candidate leading a party in the House. I only disagree with the BLOC HEAD on his views of Quebec independence, but if he was a nationalist in Canada's corner, with candidates coast to coast to coast, I kind of like his policies that aren't Quebecois Centric. So for now, I am still on board with PM JT. He is still better than the opposition. 

Canada is rapidly falling in individual economic wealth rankings. PMJT is a huge reason for that.

 

There is a record amount of food bank use and a long list of scandals.  For instance the $60 million for the arrivecan app in which the bulk of the money went to 2-3 person companies that didn't do any work.  I think it's not a bad thing to knock them out the next election in the hope that better people in the Liberal party rise to the challenge.  

Edited March 23 by bolt

[bolt]

16 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

It's hardly a mainstream take by the NDP tho. Sure some guy writing for the Tyee might suggest something like that.

Stephen Guilbeault would suggest something like that.

[Satchmo]

Just now, bolt said:

Stephen Guilbeault would suggest something like that.

Pretty sure he would not.

[Boudrias]

19 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

I don't mind if my viewpoint frustrates you as anecdotally it is a very common one in my life.

If the average middle class lifestyle, as it currently stands, is unsustainable then we are in bigger trouble than I thought. I don’t think the middle class is living lavishly.
Honestly depressing thinking of this Countries future economic prospects.

On a per capita basis we are not doing well and how people are content with it is frustrating as hell. 
Lower emissions at all costs to Canadians when it doesn't make a dent in the global scheme of things? No thanks.

Invest in tech, or attract investors in tech, that helps improve the economy long-term by opening up new industries and lower emissions worldwide via more efficient technology? Yes please. This could include more transportation infrastructure to lessen the need for gas vehicles. 

A lot of arguing to maintain the status quo by many on here. As you point out it is not working for so many. I suspect PP is getting a lot of support from many who are not particularly political. The numbers are working for him right now but how strong is that support? People should not forget that the CPC have won the popular vote for the past 2 elections. 
 

Progressives are worried about a new conservative government taking many social benefits away. I suspect much will be on the table for frank discussion and debates. Government cannot continue running deficits, adding to national debt, without repercussions. Debt service is escalating rapidly. Debt is an indirect tax on all citizens, present and future. Progressives seem to think it can go on indefinitely. If they did not then they would put proposals on the table on how they would finance the social agenda. The full impact of cost and anticipated benefits could be debated and informed decisions made. Of course this exercise has to cover the full budget. PP, if he forms government will be faced with the same challenges. 
 

 

The process is simple but the value judgements are not. Money in, money out. Increase the money coming in to meet demands on government or reduce the flow out by cutting expenses. Communicate the rationale for why decisions are made. Cut the unfunded benefits or expenses that politicians love to pass on to future generations. It is the height of greed. 

[Satchmo]

2 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

A lot of arguing to maintain the status quo by many on here. As you point out it is not working for so many. I suspect PP is getting a lot of support from many who are not particularly political. The numbers are working for him right now but how strong is that support? People should not forget that the CPC have won the popular vote for the past 2 elections. 
 

Progressives are worried about a new conservative government taking many social benefits away. I suspect much will be on the table for frank discussion and debates. Government cannot continue running deficits, adding to national debt, without repercussions. Debt service is escalating rapidly. Debt is an indirect tax on all citizens, present and future. Progressives seem to think it can go on indefinitely. If they did not then they would put proposals on the table on how they would finance the social agenda. The full impact of cost and anticipated benefits could be debated and informed decisions made. Of course this exercise has to cover the full budget. PP, if he forms government will be faced with the same challenges. 
 

 

The process is simple but the value judgements are not. Money in, money out. Increase the money coming in to meet demands on government or reduce the flow out by cutting expenses. Communicate the rationale for why decisions are made. Cut the unfunded benefits or expenses that politicians love to pass on to future generations. It is the height of greed. 

Progressives?  

[Duodenum]

11 minutes ago, bolt said:

Canada is rapidly falling in economic wealth.  There is a record amount of food bank use and a long list of scandals.  For instance the $60 million for the arrivecan app in which the bulk of the money went to 2-3 person companies that didn't do any work.  I think its not a bad thing to knock them out the next election in the hope that better people in the Liberal party rise to the challenge.  

Canada is screwed for the next while with bad leadership. Trudeau has been a dud and now Canada will get PP as his replacement. It's like firing Mike Milbury and hiring Jim Benning to replace him.

 

NDP, Liberals, and Conservatives have all lost the plot.

 

Canadians are losing the battle against the rich/"elite" class. 

 

Healthcare is privatizing, immigration isn't sustainable, housing isn't being built fast enough, insurance companies like ESI are working to gut your pharmaceutical options, Loblaws keeps jacking up prices, all with the end goal of more corporate profits and a worse quality of life for your average Canadian.

Edited March 23 by Duodenum

[bolt]

13 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Pretty sure he would not.

Liberals need to ditch Steven Guilbeault’s radical activism | Financial Post

 

The Liberals had to come to his aid after he made his ridiculous road funding comments.  Yet still they didn't get rid of him...

 

There's a lot of unqualified Liberal cabinet ministers; they wouldn't be so bad if they put people who have experience in their field as a specific minister.

 

For example

-Finance minister Freeland -work experience =Journalism, education= Russian history major

 

-Health minister Holland- work experience=lawyer education= political science

 

-Foreign minister Joly  - work experience=bankruptcy lawyer = education Public law

 

-Minister of metal additctions Saks work experience= yoga studio owner, education= international relations

 

Why do the Liberals promote ministers with no appropriate experience.  Would you hire a plumber as a doctor?  Let alone the corruption, poor management of cabinet ministers is a good reason to not re-elect them.  Their poor record speaks for itself.  

Edited March 23 by bolt

[Master Mind]

37 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

It's hardly a mainstream take by the NDP tho. Sure some guy writing for the Tyee might suggest something like that.

 

Thankfully it isn't a mainstream take, and I hope it doesn't pick up steam. The tire slashers are bad enough, don't need more people causing problems.

[Satchmo]

11 minutes ago, bolt said:

Liberals need to ditch Steven Guilbeault’s radical activism | Financial Post

 

The Liberals had to come to the aid after he made his ridicilous road funding comments.  

There's a lot of unqualified Liberal cabinet ministers; they wouldn't be so bad if they put people who have experience in their field as a specific minister.

 

For example

-Finance minister Freeland -work experience =Journalism, education= Russian history major

 

-Health minister Holland- work experience=lawyer education= political science

 

-Foreign minister Joly  - work experience=bankruptcy lawyer = education Public law

 

-Minister of metal additctions Saks work experience= yoga studio owner, education= international relations

 

Why do the Liberals promote ministers with no appropriate experience.  Would you hire a plumber as a doctor?  Let alone the corruption, poor management of cabinet ministers is a good reason to not re-elect them.  Their poor record speaks for itself.  

I can't see any of that as a response to my comment.   

 

I will admit that politicians often obtain posts for which they have no relevant work experience.   It's been that way forever and will likely continue in the next government whoever that may be.

 

Besides that, I'm not sure what qualifications the Minister of metal additctions really requires. 

 

Edited March 23 by Satchmo

[bolt]

4 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

I can't see any of that as a response to my comment.   

 

I will admit that politicians often obtain posts for which they have no relevant work experience.   It's been that way forever and will likely continue in the next government whoever that may be.

 

Besides that, I'm not sure what qualifications the Minister of metal additctions really requires. 

 

I guess the who you know always supercedes of what you know espicially in politics.  But it is a huge disservice to the population.

Edited March 23 by bolt

[Satchmo]

Just now, bolt said:

I guess the who you know always supercedes of what you know espicially in politics 

It's been that way forever and will likely continue in the next government whoever that may be.

[PureQuickness]

15 minutes ago, bolt said:

Liberals need to ditch Steven Guilbeault’s radical activism | Financial Post

 

The Liberals had to come to his aid after he made his ridiculous road funding comments.  Yet still they didn't get rid of him...

 

There's a lot of unqualified Liberal cabinet ministers; they wouldn't be so bad if they put people who have experience in their field as a specific minister.

 

For example

-Finance minister Freeland -work experience =Journalism, education= Russian history major

 

-Health minister Holland- work experience=lawyer education= political science

 

-Foreign minister Joly  - work experience=bankruptcy lawyer = education Public law

 

-Minister of metal additctions Saks work experience= yoga studio owner, education= international relations

 

Why do the Liberals promote ministers with no appropriate experience.  Would you hire a plumber as a doctor?  Let alone the corruption, poor management of cabinet ministers is a good reason to not re-elect them.  Their poor record speaks for itself.  

 

That is a sign of poor leadership because a good leader will know to appoint people to areas that work towards their strength.

 

And this ALSO shows how bad the Conservatives are as well because PP was voted in as their leader. The same leader that tried to oust an already unpopular government and FAILED over an issue that isn't even the most concerning to most Canadians.

 

Terrible, just terrible misstep.

[PureQuickness]

25 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

Canada is screwed for the next while with bad leadership. Trudeau has been a dud and now Canada will get PP as his replacement. It's like firing Mike Milbury and hiring Jim Benning to replace him.

 

NDP, Liberals, and Conservatives have all lost the plot.

 

Canadians are losing the battle against the rich/"elite" class. 

 

Healthcare is privatizing, immigration isn't sustainable, housing isn't being built fast enough, insurance companies like ESI are working to gut your pharmaceutical options, Loblaws keeps jacking up prices, all with the end goal of more corporate profits and a worse quality of life for your average Canadian.

 

Not sure this is the best analogy because Benning despite his blunders has left the team with a very good core. Not sure you can say this about Trudeau and PP is certainly no Jim Benning when it comes to the positives.

 

Benning's main issue was his execution and the ability to put things together, but he definitely tried to improve the team in any way that he could.

 

PP is like the guy who talks shit about everyone and can't actually do what he says.

[Optimist Prime]

39 minutes ago, bolt said:

Canada is rapidly falling in individual economic wealth rankings.

Can you kindly provide a source for your opinion? I have not seen anything on this tracking line ever, and would love to have the resource you are using.

[Odd.]

l

4 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

Not sure this is the best analogy because Benning despite his blunders has left the team with a very good core. Not sure you can say this about Trudeau and PP is certainly no Jim Benning when it comes to the positives.

 

Benning's main issue was his execution and the ability to put things together, but he definitely tried to improve the team in any way that he could.

 

PP is like the guy who talks shit about everyone and can't actually do what he says.

PP is more like Mike Keenan

[Bob Long]

44 minutes ago, bolt said:

Stephen Guilbeault would suggest something like that.

 

but did he?