Warhippy Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Well, you will need to speak to the millions of Canadians who also utter the same talking points as I do. I don't get paid to run the government, if I did, I would spend alot more time coming up with ideas to help with housing costs. That's why I defer this to the politicians, some of whom shouldn't really be making these types of decisions for Canadians. Liike...maybe one that spent almost half a billion while housing minister and didn't actually manage to build houses? Would be stupid to let someone like that try to fix that problem eh? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: I haven't seen that as a talking point anywhere. I am sure the Liberal government would be all over that if it was true. I can't see anyone, even PP, raising taxes on the middle class at any point in the near future. What I can see is taxes being raised in other ways to generate new revenues. Or new taxes implemented on the housing industry. I'd actually be shocked if it didn't happen... PP was part of a government that effectively taxed individuals by cutting essential services while raising spending. Look at what happened to middle income earners between 2006 and 2014. Not pretty. Now we have a potential leader who wants to help build housing, but also wants to balance a budget, but also wants to promise Canadians he will repeal a carbon tax while also not adding new taxes. Cancelling a carbon tax will result in a massive hole meaning no ability to spend to help build housing without major cuts elsewhere. This means no balanced budget. Adding a tax on home sales or building means private developers will be less likely to want to build houses in the volume needed to offset the housing issue which means less sales and jobs which means less money. See how the idea of promising things in and out of anger without an actual plan will result in a bigger mess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 38 minutes ago, bolt said: Tired of a new corruption scandal every week. Trudeau promised he would be different instead we got worse corruption...htf do they get away with paying $20 million to a 2 person firm to work on the arrivecan app who don't even do IT work? And this is ok to most people? It's not ok to most people. Nor is there 'a new corruption scandal every week'. I know you don't like facts and figures as much as feels but let's not over exaggerate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Liike...maybe one that spent almost half a billion while housing minister and didn't actually manage to build houses? Would be stupid to let someone like that try to fix that problem eh? I think you're giving PP too much credit here. He was never the actual housing minister. He was a parliamentary secretary for several different ministers... Edited March 24 by Elias Pettersson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken. Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 https://338canada.com/districts.htm No dip in the numbers yet.. funny the NDP haven’t moved an inch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Warhippy said: PP was part of a government that effectively taxed individuals by cutting essential services while raising spending. Look at what happened to middle income earners between 2006 and 2014. Not pretty. Now we have a potential leader who wants to help build housing, but also wants to balance a budget, but also wants to promise Canadians he will repeal a carbon tax while also not adding new taxes. Cancelling a carbon tax will result in a massive hole meaning no ability to spend to help build housing without major cuts elsewhere. This means no balanced budget. Adding a tax on home sales or building means private developers will be less likely to want to build houses in the volume needed to offset the housing issue which means less sales and jobs which means less money. See how the idea of promising things in and out of anger without an actual plan will result in a bigger mess? PP WAS part of a government that effectively taxed individuals. A government that was led by Stephen Harper. You cannot guarantee that he will make the same decisions that Harper did as leader of his own party. PP wants to balance a budget? How dare he do something so stupid!!! Didn't Chretien try and do the same thing and was successful? Didn't he have to make painful decisions to actually do it? No everyone was happy with Chretien's spending cuts. Some weren't happy with Chretien doubling CPP payments. Some considered that a tax. But it had to be done and we are better off today for it. Repealing the carbon tax is his MO to satisfy his base. He doesn't need to satisfy Trudeau's base because they will never vote for him. Trudeau also needs to satisfy his base. That's why he puts social programs ahead of balancing budgets. At the end of the day, politicians need to sell themselves to their voters. Adding a tax on your principal residence doesn't affect private developers which is what I was proposing. Something has to give Hippy. We can't just keep the status quo. The GST was supposed to be a short term thing as well. Didn't Chretien say he was going to abolish it? Wasn't income tax also supposed to be a short term thing to fund WW1? What happened with that? Once you implement a tax and it gets calculated into total revenues, it's pretty hard to get rid of it after the fact. If the Conservatives want to actually balance the budget, then hard decisions will need to be made. I would absolutely expect social services to be cut. Trudeau won't do this, but then again there is no expectation that he will ever be able to balance a budget, so it doesn't really matter... Edited March 24 by Elias Pettersson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 19 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I think you're giving PP too much credit here. He was never the actual housing minister. He was a parliamentary secretary for several different ministers... Well then he's even more dangerously stupid than some realize as he doesn't even recognize what his ministerial duties were In his own words 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: PP WAS part of a government that effectively taxed individuals. A government that was led by Stephen Harper. You cannot guarantee that he will make the same decisions that Harper did as leader of his own party. PP wants to balance a budget? How dare he do something so stupid!!! Didn't Chretien try and do the same thing and was successful? Didn't he have to make painful decisions to actually do it? No everyone was happy with Chretien's spending cuts. Some weren't happy with Chretien doubling CPP payments. Some considered that a tax. But it had to be done and we are better off today for it. Repealing the carbon tax is his MO to satisfy his base. He doesn't need to satisfy Trudeau's base because they will never vote for him. Trudeau also needs to satisfy his base. That's why he puts social programs ahead of balancing budgets. At the end of the day, politicians need to sell themselves to their voters. Adding a tax on your principal residence doesn't affect private developers which is what I was proposing. Something has to give Hippy. We can't just keep the status quo. The GST was supposed to be a short term thing as well. Didn't Chretien say he was going to abolish it? Wasn't income tax also supposed to be a short term thing to fund WW2? What happened with that? Once you implement a tax and it gets calculated into total revenues, it's pretty hard to get rid of it after the fact. If the Conservatives want to actually balance the budget, then hard decision will need to be made. I would absolutely expect social services to be cut. Trudeau won't do this, but then again there is no expectation that he will ever be able to balance a budget, so it's doesn't really matter... Show me the last time a conservative government balanced a budget. Show me in which of the 4 major omnibus legislation bills that hid budgets under the former government where "effective" taxation of the individual was placed Trudeau also wants to balance a budget, will you give him the same level of respect for wanting something so important? What happens to Pierres promises when he repeals that has no money to commit to any of...wel, he actually hasn't promised anything as of yet has he? Shocking as he's been campaigning on tax payer money for almost 6 months now. Adding a tax on a principal residence when people are already struggling to make mortgage payments when we're on the cusp of the next 18 months of mortgage renewals after what was one of the highest rates of home sales in national history is kind of scary but whatever. I find it interesting you say "trudeau won't do this" but somehow claim Pierre is ready or capable of doing it. You're right, something has to give. But to suggest one individual can't but the other can is a bit much 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 3 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Well then he's even more dangerously stupid than some realize as he doesn't even recognize what his ministerial duties were In his own words I think someone needs to update PP's Wikipedia page pronto before more people catch on Hippy that he was never the actual housing minister... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I think someone needs to update PP's Wikipedia page pronto before more people catch on Hippy that he was never the actual housing minister... Why does he keep claiming he was then? Also, under that graphic he shows in the difference between mortgage payments. That's yet again a dangerous misdirection towards the populace and is tantamount to lying to the electorate Edited March 24 by Warhippy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 7 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Why does he keep claiming he was then? That is a question I would love to see answered. Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 3 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Why does he keep claiming he was then? There was no minister of housing under Harper. That title didn't come into effect until the Liberals took over. The people in charge of housing during the Harper years were the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Infrastructure. In looking at Wikipedia, those people were Denis Label and Lisa Raitt... 28th Canadian Ministry - Wikipedia Why is he calling himself the former Minister of Housing? Because he is a politician, and the first act of a politician is to learn how to lie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 6 hours ago, Master Mind said: Glad to hear you're seeing where I'm coming from. Even in areas I'm not invested in, I do often have a general idea of what the party's stance would be. However, if I'm not invested in said subject, it's unlikely to impact my vote. I don't have anything to show you that you wouldn't already know regarding his plans. Not trusting him is fair, as I don't trust any party at the end of the day. Whether it's a valid reason is up for debate, I think the main draw for many people is that he'd be a change, and that aspect alone will be enough for him to be successful. yep, diaper politics is in play for sure, "time for a change" as they say is good enough for many. I've thought for a while now that Trudeau's biggest enemy is time, no one really wants a PM longer than 10 years. I'd love it if he stepped aside for Mark Carney, but not holding my breath. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 18 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Show me the last time a conservative government balanced a budget. Show me in which of the 4 major omnibus legislation bills that hid budgets under the former government where "effective" taxation of the individual was placed Trudeau also wants to balance a budget, will you give him the same level of respect for wanting something so important? What happens to Pierres promises when he repeals that has no money to commit to any of...wel, he actually hasn't promised anything as of yet has he? Shocking as he's been campaigning on tax payer money for almost 6 months now. Adding a tax on a principal residence when people are already struggling to make mortgage payments when we're on the cusp of the next 18 months of mortgage renewals after what was one of the highest rates of home sales in national history is kind of scary but whatever. I find it interesting you say "trudeau won't do this" but somehow claim Pierre is ready or capable of doing it. You're right, something has to give. But to suggest one individual can't but the other can is a bit much Harper ran a surplus in 2007-2008 of $9.6 billion. He wasn't able to balance the budget in 2008-2009 because of the global recession. Same thing with Trudeau right? You are saying that Conservatives never run on a balanced budget, but the fact of the matter is Justin Trudeau has never balanced a budget either, even before COVID, so that is a mute point if you are trying to defend Trudeau. My question to you is when has Justin Trudeau ever balanced a budget? How about never? Remember his campaign promise from 2015? Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is backing away from a campaign vow to balance the public books before the end of his government's four-year mandate — a pledge that was central to the Liberal election platform. As a result of a weakening economy, the government's upcoming 2016-17 budget plan will show a deficit larger than the Liberals' promised $10-billion shortfall cap, Trudeau told Montreal's La Presse newspaper. Trudeau shies away from Liberals' balanced-budget vow, cites fading economy | CBC News So why should I give Trudeau his respect for wanting to balance the budget when he has never been capable of actually doing it even though he promised Canadians he would as part of his campaign in 2015? I'm not suggesting PP is going to keep all of his promises. He may not keep any of them. But Trudeau also lied to us from day one, so I don't look at him any differently... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Harper ran a surplus in 2007-2008 of $9.6 billion. He wasn't able to balance the budget in 2008-2009 because of the global recession. Same thing with Trudeau right? You are saying that Conservatives never run on a balanced budget, but the fact of the matter is Justin Trudeau has never balanced a budget either, even before COVID, so that is a mute point if you are trying to defend Trudeau. My question to you is when has Justin Trudeau ever balanced a budget? How about never? Remember his campaign promise from 2015? Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is backing away from a campaign vow to balance the public books before the end of his government's four-year mandate — a pledge that was central to the Liberal election platform. As a result of a weakening economy, the government's upcoming 2016-17 budget plan will show a deficit larger than the Liberals' promised $10-billion shortfall cap, Trudeau told Montreal's La Presse newspaper. Trudeau shies away from Liberals' balanced-budget vow, cites fading economy | CBC News So why should I give Trudeau his respect for wanting to balance the budget when he has never been capable of actually doing it even though he promised Canadians he would as part of his campaign in 2015? I'm not suggesting PP is going to keep all of his promises. He may not keep any of them. But Trudeau also lied to us from day one, so I don't look at him any differently... Where did that surplus come from? This is actually going to be REALLY important for your argument. He had a near majority being propped up by the bloc in 2008 and a full majority in 2011. Knowing what happened in 2008 during the financial crash and how fast Canada recovered as well as what money was spent where (hint bailout of banks/cmhc that was never a bailout) is again important. Where as during covid, the bulk of the spending came from a minority government with FULL party support and committee not a single or dual party list Trudeau can't balance a budget; nobody will argue that. What will be argued is where skippy keeps making these claims yet falling flat and forgetting his own parties past. The fundamental issue I have with your camp is that you're willing to lambaste Trudeau but are willing to prop up Pierre. The reason this is galling is Pierre was committing to the EXACT same issue you hold Trudeau accountable for under his former government rule, and is claiming things he did, that he did not; while claiming Trudeau did things, which he in fact didn't based on the actual reality of parliamentary rule under a minority government. Simply put, I don't like liars. I don't truck with people who cannot hold themselves accountable and I like evidence not bullshit. I ask you these questions because the glaring hypocrisy is stunning. Every single thing you hold Trudeau accountable for, his party committed to in the past as well. EDverything he is saying, is a misdirection from the truth yet is applauded and supported. You can not for a second pretend that Trudeau or Poilivere are different because they're not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureQuickness Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 5 hours ago, Warhippy said: im absolutely no fan of additional taxes. bc has had one since like 2007 But there's literally zero attempt to address the obvious climate change happening. Look at the river in PG right now for verification. Something HAS to change Don't look for the Conservatives to do so in its current iteration. Even the BC Conservative party (no relation to the Federal obviously) had a candidate come by and guess what? "Build pipelines" was on his pamphlet. I have yet to see any 'real' change from any of the parties on climate change, but certainly not the Conservatives. Some people just don't want things to change, despite the fact that they want a change in government. That's maybe the only change they want. Edited March 24 by PureQuickness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, PureQuickness said: Don't look for the Conservatives in its current iteration. Even the BC Conservative party (no relation to the Federal) had a candidate come by and guess what? "Build pipelines" was on his pamphlet. I have yet to see any 'real' change from any of the parties on climate change, but certainly not the Conservatives. the BC NDP won't be standing in the way of new oil or natural gas projects either, particularly not the ones being picked up by First Nations investors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, PureQuickness said: Don't look for the Conservatives to do so in its current iteration. Even the BC Conservative party (no relation to the Federal obviously) had a candidate come by and guess what? "Build pipelines" was on his pamphlet. I have yet to see any 'real' change from any of the parties on climate change, but certainly not the Conservatives. Some people just don't want things to change, despite the fact that they want a change in government. That's maybe the only change they want. I had a long conversation with Amelia Boultbee who is the BC Conservative candidate in the south okanagan and wow what a piece of work she is... It is no different than the federal party in that social policy is now dominant and the lies about resources and the economy and who is in charge of what have already started, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureQuickness Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: the BC NDP won't be standing in the way of new oil or natural gas projects either, particularly not the ones being picked up by First Nations investors. It's a bit of a sham from what I've seen so far about certain First Nations groups being necessarily more environmental than the other groups. In the end, they're just looking to make money out of everything. Obviously, what I'm saying doesn't describe ALL First Nations groups and I'm not insinuating that the people as a whole are any less virtuous than the other people. We need oil, but we also need to look at other solutions. The monopoly set by the preexisting groups are killing the province (and the country) all because certain people want to keep things the way they are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureQuickness Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 3 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I had a long conversation with Amelia Boultbee who is the BC Conservative candidate in the south okanagan and wow what a piece of work she is... It is no different than the federal party in that social policy is now dominant and the lies about resources and the economy and who is in charge of what have already started, Yeah. And I understand why they want things to stay the same. One would be foolish not to see the name "Conservatives" and confuse that with progression. I know that is a low hanging fruit, but all of the parties, regardless of the name, lack the political willpower to step outside their comfort zones. And currently, politics as a whole is not about cooperating with other parties. It's just a power struggle to see who can control what. It's divisive and it's why we have people even considering to vote for the Federal Conservatives to go into power, despite the fact that PP as a leader is garbage. He truly is garbage, regardless of political affiliation. I'd say the same thing if he ran as an NDP or a Liberal. His stance on Freedom Convoy, vaccines, and other topic issues makes me think he'll represent anyone who doesn't like Trudeau while trying to mirror the US, which is actually a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 minute ago, PureQuickness said: It's a bit of a sham from what I've seen so far about certain First Nations groups being necessarily more environmental than the other groups. In the end, they're just looking to make money out of everything. Obviously, what I'm saying doesn't describe ALL First Nations groups and I'm not insinuating that the people as a whole are any less virtuous than the other people. We need oil, but we also need to look at other solutions. The monopoly set by the preexisting groups are killing the province (and the country) all because certain people want to keep things the way they are. personally I'm all for the first nations groups buying up these projects and more. I love that the Squamish nation e.g., is going to change big parts of the Vancouver skyline. At the end of the day Canada needs to figure out how to develop and promote things like carbon capture tech, we're just not big enough to matter in terms of our footprint on the planet. I'm not saying we shouldn't do our part, we should, but unless China, India and the US also do theirs Canada is fucked anyway. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 SO he wasn''t housing minister but just says he was anyway? W T actual F? This is our new hope? oh boy. Also, who is dressing this guy? put the tie and glasses back on PP. The Miami Vice look is dated and you look a little sqiunty. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureQuickness Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: SO he wasn''t housing minister but just says he was anyway? W T actual F? This is our new hope? oh boy. Also, who is dressing this guy? put the tie and glasses back on PP. The Miami Vice look is dated and you look a little sqiunty. PP is a terrible choice and has been. People are just SO desperate for change that they will put lipstick on a pig and want it to run instead of Trudeau. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 8 minutes ago, PureQuickness said: PP is a terrible choice and has been. People are just SO desperate for change that they will put lipstick on a pig and want it to run instead of Trudeau. You're right. He may look a bit better with some lipstick but I dont think his supporters would dig that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Harper ran a surplus in 2007-2008 of $9.6 billion. He wasn't able to balance the budget in 2008-2009 because of the global recession. Same thing with Trudeau right? You are saying that Conservatives never run on a balanced budget, but the fact of the matter is Justin Trudeau has never balanced a budget either, even before COVID, so that is a mute point if you are trying to defend Trudeau. My question to you is when has Justin Trudeau ever balanced a budget? How about never? Remember his campaign promise from 2015? Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is backing away from a campaign vow to balance the public books before the end of his government's four-year mandate — a pledge that was central to the Liberal election platform. As a result of a weakening economy, the government's upcoming 2016-17 budget plan will show a deficit larger than the Liberals' promised $10-billion shortfall cap, Trudeau told Montreal's La Presse newspaper. Trudeau shies away from Liberals' balanced-budget vow, cites fading economy | CBC News So why should I give Trudeau his respect for wanting to balance the budget when he has never been capable of actually doing it even though he promised Canadians he would as part of his campaign in 2015? I'm not suggesting PP is going to keep all of his promises. He may not keep any of them. But Trudeau also lied to us from day one, so I don't look at him any differently... You can't blame his deficit entirely on the financial crisis of 08/09. He lowered the GST at the beginning of 2008. That reduction put a giant hole in revenue that has NEVER been paid for. Typical of voodoo economics that CONservatives to this day believe in. Cutting taxes magically solves problems. What cutting taxes leads to is the eventual cut in services. The shuttering of VA offices for example. We learned first hand that in PG. Edited March 24 by the destroyer of worlds 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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