Canadian Politics Thread

[Master Mind]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

yep, diaper politics is in play for sure, "time for a change" as they say is good enough for many. I've thought for a while now that Trudeau's biggest enemy is time, no one really wants a PM longer than 10 years.

 

I'd love it if he stepped aside for Mark Carney, but not holding my breath. 

 

 

Agreed, I'd also like it if he stepped aside.

 

I don't blame him for staying though, I doubt I'd be able to resign in that scenario.

[Satchmo]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

yep, diaper politics is in play for sure, "time for a change" as they say is good enough for many. I've thought for a while now that Trudeau's biggest enemy is time, no one really wants a PM longer than 10 years.

 

I'd love it if he stepped aside for Mark Carney, but not holding my breath. 

 

If JT stepped aside (or just lost) I wonder if he'd ever consider a comeback like his dad.  

 

Mark Carney is a great idea but does he have the hair?

[The Arrogant Worms]

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Well, you will need to speak to the millions of Canadians who also utter the same talking points as I do.  I don't get paid to run the government, if I did, I would spend alot more time coming up with ideas to help with housing costs.  That's why I defer this to the politicians, some of whom shouldn't really be making these types of decisions for Canadians.

 

What does this even mean? I'm not speaking to millions of Canadians, I'm speaking to you. I'm not sure what millions of other Canadians being just as confused as you, has to do with with the fact you're barking up the wrong tree, and without a hint of irony, demanding balanced budgets AND fixing housing, while thinking a conservative run government is going to do anything to help either situation, (or increasing wage gaps, or the environment, etc, etc) when literally EVERYTHING in the history of conservative governments tells us that they will if anything tilt the pendulum further towards corporate interests at the expense of people and the environment.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

What does this even mean? I'm not speaking to millions of Canadians, I'm speaking to you. I'm not sure what millions of other Canadians being just as confused as you, has to do with with the fact you're barking up the wrong tree, and without a hint of irony, demanding balanced budgets AND fixing housing, while thinking a conservative run government is going to do anything to help either situation, (or increasing wage gaps, or the environment, etc, etc) when literally EVERYTHING in the history of conservative governments tells us that they will if anything tilt the pendulum further towards corporate interests at the expense of people and the environment.

Trudeau has been in government since 2015. Has he ever balanced a budget?  Has he fixed the housing crisis?  Has he fixed the wage gap?  
 

Whatever concerns you have for a conservative government are the exact same concerns the average person has with the Liberal government. 
 

I know you don’t like either, so this is not actually directed at you. 
 

If people actually demanded a change to the Liberal government we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. Chretien resigned after 10 years even though he ran balanced budgets for most of his tenure. But Trudeau, who wouldn’t know a balanced budget if it hit him in the head, gets a free pass and gets to run one more time for a 4th term?  Why?  Because PP bad?  
 

If the Liberals had the balls to get rid of Trudeau and find someone else to run the party, they’d probably win the next election. There is still time. People should demand a change. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

You can't blame his deficit entirely on the financial crisis of 08/09.  He lowered the GST at the beginning of 2008.  That reduction put a giant hole in revenue that has NEVER been paid for.  Typical of voodoo economics that CONservatives to this day believe in.  Cutting taxes magically solves problems. 

 

What cutting taxes leads to is the eventual cut in services.  The shuttering of VA offices for example.  We learned first hand that in PG.

I agree about the GST. However, would people be happy with a 7% GST today?  How would that affect the economy?  Adding another 2% to new construction costs and new condos in today’s world probably wouldn’t be a good thing. 
 

Cutting taxes doesn’t necessarily solve problems, but it does help with economic growth as people have more funds available for discretionary spending. That’s the whole idea of lowering taxes. The problem is you also shrink government revenues, so it’s a double edged sword. 

[RupertKBD]

6 hours ago, Maninthebox said:

Doh I can't view Facebook stuff! I did read that November article, as well as a more recent bit about the 'warm weather not a concern for flooding' (paraphrasing). There's still potential for spring weather to build up snow packs, but it's been a rough period for drought, no question.

 

6 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Sorry my dude, I will have my buddy Jesse send me an actual photo/video I can link up here to look at.  Needless to say though it's insanely low for this time of year and for how warm it has been in the region

 

I'm not on FB, but I was able to view that video without any problem. I just clicked on the "X" in the top right corner of the "sign in" pop-up....

 

BTW: I spent the first 20 years of my life in PG and I've never see the confluence of the Nechako and Fraser anywhere near as dry as that.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Where did that surplus come from?  This is actually going to be REALLY important for your argument.

 

He had a near majority being propped up by the bloc in 2008 and a full majority in 2011.  Knowing what happened in 2008 during the financial crash and how fast Canada recovered as well as what money was spent where (hint bailout of banks/cmhc that was never a bailout)  is again important.  Where as during covid, the bulk of the spending came from a minority government with FULL party support and committee not a single or dual party list

 

Trudeau can't balance a budget; nobody will argue that.  What will be argued is where skippy keeps making these claims yet falling flat and forgetting his own parties past.

 

The fundamental issue I have with your camp is that you're willing to lambaste Trudeau but are willing to prop up Pierre.  The reason this is galling is Pierre was committing to the EXACT same issue you hold Trudeau accountable for under his former government rule, and is claiming things he did, that he did not; while claiming Trudeau did things, which he in fact didn't based on the actual reality of parliamentary rule under a minority government.

 

Simply put, I don't like liars.  I don't truck with people who cannot hold themselves accountable and I like evidence not bullshit.  I ask you these questions because the glaring hypocrisy is stunning.  Every single thing you hold Trudeau accountable for, his party committed to in the past as well.  EDverything he is saying, is a misdirection from the truth yet is applauded and supported.

 

You can not for a second pretend that Trudeau or Poilivere are different because they're not.

You asked me when was the last time a conservative government ran a balanced budget. I provided you with factual numbers from 2007-2008, an actual surplus of $9.6 million, and then you proceed to shit on me for bringing it up and then try and dismiss it with your own version of events. So who is being the hypocrite here?  Where was the lie when I said Harper balanced the budget in 2007-2008?  Just because you don’t like the factual information provided to you and try to spin it around doesn’t mean it’s a lie. 
 

At least you can admit that Trudeau isn’t capable of balancing a budget. So we don’t need to address that anymore. We are on the same page. 
 

As for PP versus Trudeau, what you are doing is actually disingenuous. You are trying to prop up PP as a former minister when he was not. You are trying to give him much more power than he actually ever had in the Harper government to make it look like he was in charge of everything and so he now has a record of incompetence the same as our current leader. He was never our leader. All of that incompetence in that conservative government falls on their leader at the time, who was Stephen Harper. Same as today. All of the Liberal incompetence falls on Trudeau. 
 

Also, I never said PP was any better than Trudeau. Those are your words not mine. They are two peas in a pod. You can tell when both of them are lying. It’s when they are opening their mouths. 

Edited March 25 by Elias Pettersson

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

personally I'm all for the first nations groups buying up these projects and more. I love that the Squamish nation e.g., is going to change big parts of the Vancouver skyline.

 

At the end of the day Canada needs to figure out how to develop and promote things like carbon capture tech, we're just not big enough to matter in terms of our footprint on the planet. I'm not saying we shouldn't do our part, we should, but unless China, India and the US also do theirs Canada is fucked anyway. 

 

Me too, I suspect there may be a first nations equity group involved in the TMX twinned pipeline once it goes for sale to a non government company. 

 

 

as for the last bit: Canada does have an oversized voice in International Affairs. We need to make the changes that we need to make, without regard for what China does. It is the 130 odd smaller nations that look to Canada as a guiding voice who will be impacted, and the US is on board and moving along on climate change in similar fashion to Canada now anyways, as long as Trump doesn't get back in. There will come a moment in time when the 'free world' with its climate policies can simply embargo the BRIC nations who refuse to do anything about our shared environment and global climate. China is reliant upon the west to buy its stonks, to paraphrase Pete Davidson hehehe, so once 'we the west' are on firm climate policy ground, the rest of the world will follow. Not doing anything because China and Russia and Iran aren't doing anything is bad policy. 

[Optimist Prime]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/threats-of-violence-canada-elections-1.7153960

Anti-authority narratives could tear 'fabric of society,' intelligence report warns

Violent threats have become increasingly common outside of elections, report says

Quote

Threats against politicians have become "increasingly normalized" due to extremist narratives prompted by personal grievances and fuelled by misinformation or deliberate lies, warns a newly released intelligence report.

The report, prepared by a federal task force that aims to safeguard elections, says the Canadian violent extremist landscape has seen the proliferation of conspiracy theories, a growing lack of trust in the integrity of the state and more political polarization.

Baseless theories, disinformation and misinformation have spread to larger audiences, exposing online users to a vast network of narratives that undermine science, systems of government and traditional figures of authority, the report says.

full story in the link at the top.

[aGENT]

52 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Trudeau has been in government since 2015. Has he ever balanced a budget?  Has he fixed the housing crisis?  Has he fixed the wage gap?  
 

Whatever concerns you have for a conservative government are the exact same concerns the average person has with the Liberal government. 
 

I know you don’t like either, so this is not actually directed at you. 
 

If people actually demanded a change to the Liberal government we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. Chretien resigned after 10 years even though he ran balanced budgets for most of his tenure. But Trudeau, who wouldn’t know a balanced budget if it hit him in the head, gets a free pass and gets to run one more time for a 4th term?  Why?  Because PP bad?  
 

If the Liberals had the balls to get rid of Trudeau and find someone else to run the party, they’d probably win the next election. There is still time. People should demand a change. 

 

Difference is, I'm not telling you to vote for Trudeau (the Liberals). I'm telling you that if you think Trudeau (the Liberals) are bad at what I think most of us agree are real problems, Pollievre (the Conservatives) are even worse. "Different"? Yup. But different =\= better.

 

Since you don't like graphs and charts, and prefer anecdotes and the like, let me see if I can make an analogy.

 

You and your spouse have a house with a couple kids. Unfortunately your brother and his family have fallen on hard times and have moved in with you. Followed shortly by your elderly parents. You need more house for all these people so you decide to renovate and do an addition. You hire a contracting company and they recommend updating your windows to more modern, efficient windows and your old oil furnace to an efficient heat pump on top of the addition, which you agree to do. They do a good job on some things, a middling job on others and a bad job on a few things, while going over budget, particularly after a few surprises come up. You're thinking seriously about firing them.

 

So you go looking for another contracting company and you find one who keeps agreeing with you about how bad the first company is and how they can do a much better job. They sound promising (if short on details).

 

Unfortunately, if you look in to their previous work and references, you start to see a pattern of even worse work from them. Drafty, inefficient houses, even poorer construction just as bad of budgetary concerns (if not worse) but for even worse construction quality.

 

So what do you do? 

[Optimist Prime]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Difference is, I'm not telling you to vote for Trudeau (the Liberals). I'm telling you that if you think Trudeau (the Liberals) are bad at what I think most of us agree are real problems, Pollievre (the Conservatives) are even worse. "Different"? Yup. But different =\= better.

 

Since you don't like graphs and charts, and prefer anecdotes and the like, let me see if I can make an analogy.

 

You and your spouse have a house with a couple kids. Unfortunately your brother and his family have fallen on hard times and have moved in with you. Followed shortly by your elderly parents. You need more house for all these people so you decide to renovate and do an addition. You hire a contracting company and they recommend updating your windows to more modern, efficient windows and your old oil furnace to an efficient heat pump on top of the addition, which you agree to do. They do a good job on some things, a middling job on others and a bad job on a few things, while going over budget, particularly after a few surprises come up. You're thinking seriously about firing them.

 

So you go looking for another contracting company and you find one who keeps agreeing with you about how bad the first company is and how they can do a much better job. They sound promising (if short on details).

 

Unfortunately, if you look in to their previous work and references, you start to see a pattern of even worse work from them. Drafty, inefficient houses, even poorer construction just as bad of budgetary concerns (if not worse) but for even worse construction quality.

 

So what do you do? 

the only climate policy Pierre Poilievre has is 'axing the tax'. 

 

That isn't a policy it is a rage farm. I wouldn't hire the guy who doesn't have references and won't show me examples of his work, no matter how good he pretends he is. 

[Maninthebox]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, RupertKBD said:

 

 

I'm not on FB, but I was able to view that video without any problem. I just clicked on the "X" in the top right corner of the "sign in" pop-up....

 

BTW: I spent the first 20 years of my life in PG and I've never see the confluence of the Nechako and Fraser anywhere near as dry as that.

 

hrm tried again but there is no X on the sign in/up page I got. No matter, I did find a short clip (on instagram I think) that showed the river bed beneath the rail bridge completely dry!

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C46LD3Ivzd8/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Edited March 25 by Maninthebox

[Elias Pettersson]

44 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Difference is, I'm not telling you to vote for Trudeau (the Liberals). I'm telling you that if you think Trudeau (the Liberals) are bad at what I think most of us agree are real problems, Pollievre (the Conservatives) are even worse. "Different"? Yup. But different =\= better.

 

Since you don't like graphs and charts, and prefer anecdotes and the like, let me see if I can make an analogy.

 

You and your spouse have a house with a couple kids. Unfortunately your brother and his family have fallen on hard times and have moved in with you. Followed shortly by your elderly parents. You need more house for all these people so you decide to renovate and do an addition. You hire a contracting company and they recommend updating your windows to more modern, efficient windows and your old oil furnace to an efficient heat pump on top of the addition, which you agree to do. They do a good job on some things, a middling job on others and a bad job on a few things, while going over budget, particularly after a few surprises come up. You're thinking seriously about firing them.

 

So you go looking for another contracting company and you find one who keeps agreeing with you about how bad the first company is and how they can do a much better job. They sound promising (if short on details).

 

Unfortunately, if you look in to their previous work and references, you start to see a pattern of even worse work from them. Drafty, inefficient houses, even poorer construction just as bad of budgetary concerns (if not worse) but for even worse construction quality.

 

So what do you do? 

Alright let’s see. The first contractor does work on my home. Some of the work is done well, some is average and some is simply like shit. So I’m thinking about firing them. Well it would kinda be too late to fire them as the work is already complete and the damage is already done. 
 

So I’m over budget and fucking pissed off. I find out about another company through a friend who brags about them and I do my own due diligence. I find out they are just as shit as the company I hired. 
 

So, what do I do?  Well, the damage has already been done. Just like Trudeau. I don’t really want to use the second company to fix the mess of the first company, Pierre. So I look for an alternative. Which is what Agent would do as he hates both options. 
 

However, after a week of going back and forth the first company comes back and says they fired their boss, restructured their business and are now under new ownership. So I tell them to fix the mess they left and they do and everyone lives happily ever after. 
 

The final verdict?  Bye bye Trudeau. It was nice knowing you. Hello ___________ insert new leader of the Liberal party. 
 

Does that satisfactorily answer your question?  

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Alright let’s see. The first contractor does work on my home. Some of the work is done well, some is average and some is simply like shit. So I’m thinking about firing them. Well it would kinda be too late to fire them as the work is already complete and the damage is already done. 
 

So I’m over budget and fucking pissed off. I find out about another company through a friend who brags about them and I do my own due diligence. I find out they are just as shit as the company I hired. 
 

So, what do I do?  Well, the damage has already been done. Just like Trudeau. I don’t really want to use the second company to fix the mess of the first company, Pierre. So I look for an alternative. Which is what Agent would do as he hates both options. 
 

However, after a week of going back and forth the first company comes back and says they fired their boss, restructured their business and are now under new ownership. So I tell them to fix the mess they left and they do and everyone lives happily ever after. 
 

The final verdict?  Bye bye Trudeau. It was nice knowing you. Hello ___________ insert new leader of the Liberal party. 
 

Does that satisfactorily answer your question?  

 

It's not presently one of our options, so not really, no.

[Kootenay Gold]

8 hours ago, Maninthebox said:

 

Could you post a link, please? I couldn't find anything relevant, and I don't want to call my mother today!

 

ie: the river, specifically

 

 

BC river forecast as of today. All this info is available online.

 

BC river forecast as of today. All this info is available online.

Edited March 25 by Kootenay Gold

[Boudrias]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

PP WAS part of a government that effectively taxed individuals.  A government that was led by Stephen Harper.  You cannot guarantee that he will make the same decisions that Harper did as leader of his own party.

 

PP wants to balance a budget?  How dare he do something so stupid!!!    Didn't Chretien try and do the same thing and was successful?  Didn't he have to make painful decisions to actually do it?  No everyone was happy with Chretien's spending cuts.  Some weren't happy with Chretien doubling CPP payments.  Some considered that a tax.  But it had to be done and we are better off today for it.

 

Repealing the carbon tax is his MO to satisfy his base.  He doesn't need to satisfy Trudeau's base because they will never vote for him.  Trudeau also needs to satisfy his base.  That's why he puts social programs ahead of balancing budgets.  At the end of the day, politicians need to sell themselves to their voters.

 

Adding a tax on your principal residence doesn't affect private developers which is what I was proposing.  Something has to give Hippy.  We can't just keep the status quo.  The GST was supposed to be a short term thing as well.  Didn't Chretien say he was going to abolish it?  Wasn't income tax also supposed to be a short term thing to fund WW1?  What happened with that?

 

Once you implement a tax and it gets calculated into total revenues, it's pretty hard to get rid of it after the fact.  If the Conservatives want to actually balance the budget, then hard decisions will need to be made.  I would absolutely expect social services to be cut.  Trudeau won't do this, but then again there is no expectation that he will ever be able to balance a budget, so it doesn't really matter...

If we are dealing in yesteryear I believe it was Harper who brought in TFSA’s and allowed pension income splitting for seniors. Both saved thousands in taxes and potential taxes for low income people.

[Boudrias]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

What does this even mean? I'm not speaking to millions of Canadians, I'm speaking to you. I'm not sure what millions of other Canadians being just as confused as you, has to do with with the fact you're barking up the wrong tree, and without a hint of irony, demanding balanced budgets AND fixing housing, while thinking a conservative run government is going to do anything to help either situation, (or increasing wage gaps, or the environment, etc, etc) when literally EVERYTHING in the history of conservative governments tells us that they will if anything tilt the pendulum further towards corporate interests at the expense of people and the environment.

This doesn’t really jive with PP’s address to the Vancouver Board of Trade last week. 

[PureQuickness]

5 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

You're right.

He may look a bit better with some lipstick but I dont think his supporters would dig that.

 

Yeah, no kidding...

[PureQuickness]

2 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

the only climate policy Pierre Poilievre has is 'axing the tax'. 

 

That isn't a policy it is a rage farm. I wouldn't hire the guy who doesn't have references and won't show me examples of his work, no matter how good he pretends he is. 

 

This is exactly right with PP. He has no plan. The only plan is to do the exact opposite of Trudeau - hardly inspiring.

[PureQuickness]

7 hours ago, bolt said:

Tired of a new corruption scandal every week. Trudeau promised he would be different instead we got worse corruption...htf do they get away with paying $20 million to a 2 person firm to work on the arrivecan app  who don't even do IT work?  And this is ok to most people?

 

The party is just on the brink of a collapse. Trudeau would do wonders if he just resigned and let someone else take the spot. Still, the Conservatives can't even topple this weak government. It's pathetic on the Conservatives part. There is no time better than now to be popular - and PP fails to capitalize.

[Optimist Prime]

55 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

The party is just on the brink of a collapse. Trudeau would do wonders if he just resigned and let someone else take the spot. Still, the Conservatives can't even topple this weak government. It's pathetic on the Conservatives part. There is no time better than now to be popular - and PP fails to capitalize.

I see the messaging from the official opposition is sinking in. Just a few points of rebuttal: 

 

6 months ago the Liberal Party and the Conservatives were statistically tied in the polls.

 

Now, the Liberals and NDP, the MPs who have a combined majority and who made JT the Prime Minister still have a combined  3 point lead on the Conservatives.

 

Peak Conservative polling was 17 days ago, it has fallen twice in national polling since then.

 

The Liberal Party was in third place for MPs elected to the house when JT took over and went on to win the PM job.

 

The election is 19 months away.

 

 

Why then would the Prime Minister resign? He just won a confidence vote 200+ votes to 113votes 5 days ago, actually less non confidence votes than Conservstive MPs. 

 

Rumors of the Liberal Parties demise have been greatly exaggerated.

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

This doesn’t really jive with PP’s address to the Vancouver Board of Trade last week. 

 

You mean this? https://www.biv.com/news/economy-law-politics/pierre-poilievre-gets-downs-to-business-with-board-of-trade-8418197

 

He doesn't explain how he'd do any of this. His crime talk eg is just recycled Harper era crap that won't survive a challenge. 

 

There's no explanation at all of how he'd accomplish anything.

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, PureQuickness said:

 

Yeah, no kidding...

I'm not sure about that, given how badly they want to have sex with Trudeau.

[DSVII]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

I see the messaging from the official opposition is sinking in. Just a few points of rebuttal: 

 

6 months ago the Liberal Party and the Conservatives were statistically tied in the polls.

 

Now, the Liberals and NDP, the MPs who have a combined majority and who made JT the Prime Minister still have a combined  3 point lead on the Conservatives.

 

Peak Conservative polling was 17 days ago, it has fallen twice in national polling since then.

 

The Liberal Party was in third place for MPs elected to the house when JT took over and went on to win the PM job.

 

The election is 19 months away.

 

 

Why then would the Prime Minister resign? He just won a confidence vote 200+ votes to 113votes 5 days ago, actually less non confidence votes than Conservstive MPs. 

 

Rumors of the Liberal Parties demise have been greatly exaggerated.

 

Not that I disagree with the notion, but national polling does not translate to seats when it comes to the FPTP system, projections right now still look like a Conservative majority. Ironically Trudeau's breaking of that election promise may come back to bite him in a very large way.

 

But as you said, 19 months is a long way away, and it's possible the rage baiting may wear thin with the electorate. But I don't see anything less than a Conservative minority happening at this point. We'll see though.