The Arrogant Worms Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 1 hour ago, JIAHN said: Ok, fine.....what about the other 1st world countries, which one GNP have risen? What percentage have risen? Let's not compare to ourselves...... Liberalism, has asked us to share our wealth, times has asked us to share our wealth, as some 3rd world countries are catching up I also find it funny and ironic, that today, a person or family with a minimum paying job owns a 48 inch color TV and a cell phone, and screams poverty. As when I was a kid growing up, poverty meant no TV, and growing gardens so the vegies could be canned, clothes were handed down, and the car was 30 years old....and a vacation, was only to the local camp ground....if at all. Things change! My Dad also worked as much overtime as he could get! Worked a second job, to try and get ahead! When I was growing up in the 60's never really saw much poverty. There were some kids in school you knew their families had next to nothing. Our whole back yard was a garden where my Dad grew everything....most families did back then as it was a common thing. Nothing like picking peas and carrots fresh from the garden and eating them...yum. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 1 hour ago, Bob Long said: I don't need the constant reminders of where Canada is at, I want to hear PPs plan. Why is it so hard for guys who like PP to just post the alternative plans? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 1 hour ago, Boudrias said: World economies have been fighting the deflationary trend resulting for demographics for some time. Few politicians ever attempt to warn people. To a degree perhaps confirming the reality that much of their spending and forecasts are based on an ever increasing GDP to pay for their spending. Reality is GDP is flatlining and inflation is likely 3.5% or higher. How will Canada deal with a massive debt problem at all levels of government and with consumers. It does not take a genius to understand there is a problem when I drive down my mainstreet on the Friday of a long weekend and it is largely empty. I get written off on these pages for my concern over debt but it is real and is increasing. When will people realize that inflation is a indirect tax on their standard of living? FOrgot to add that AI is seen as a possible counter to lost productivity. It might help Canada. I see the opposite in the area I live. Streets are full of people. One brew pub the parking lot is full from noon on. Even the small stores are busy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 14 minutes ago, JIAHN said: I totally agree with your write up! What do you do? NDP are still trying to give out tax money, for expanding services to the poor, first nations, etc Which in a perfect world I would support, but!!!! The Liberals just put their head in the sand, and let inflation eat away our tax dollars and the Conservatives want to reduce spending, which I agree with, but!!! But, But, But, they also want reduce what the Government owns, and guess who will buy it with pennies on the dollar....not common folk...they have no money! One thing, I am noticing, and do not agree with, it large corps are showing larger and larger profits, and then hiding them, in tax loop holes. Banks, are making more and more money and are giving out 2 tiered profit sharing, based on how much you have invested. Same for investment house, like IG.....Corporations, are gouging us, and government, especially Conservatives, are allowing it.....and that is world wide. So, as much as I would like the fiscally responsible part of the Conservatives, I do not like the other parts, such as the freedom fighters and anti-vaxers type people who have a large say in the Conservative party. And which I totally disagree with............. It is a large problem for me! My question would be why do the 'tax loopholes' exist in the first place? Usually tax breaks are used to encourage private investment. If they are not doing that job well enough then remove them from the tax code. I don't think citizens can condemn people or corporations for utilizing tax incentives. I would certainly agree with a better explanation by government on why they exist and a accurate measurement of the effectiveness. Perhaps another question to address is why capital is leaving Canada to the tune of + $100 billion a year? Been happening for decades. If it is to invest in American operations I would question the effectiveness of NAFTA. IMHO Canada has to have an industrial strategy that both the Liberals and CPC agree to pursue over multiple administrations. The Americans are far more consistent in their priorities than we are. On what basis do you determine gouging? Levi has jeans made in 3rd world countries and sell them for $100's in Canada. Is that gouging? People love to say the grocery stores are gouging us. There is no doubt that their pricing has gone up. What is the fair return for this industry? All are public companies and their profits are available to view. I won't buy their stock as their growth is poor and their ROI is poor, their dividends are not particularly good. Maybe the telcos are. They charge a lot. I was surprised that the Rogers purchase of Shaw was allowed. Bottom line was that Shaw was in financial trouble. Just reading the other day that Telus is investing $100's of billions into their infrastructure across the country. I think Corporations are gouging us requires more detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 (edited) 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: 100% agree Boudrias. The current deficit is a massive problem with an interest payment of $40 billion and growing. In effect this interest payment will never go away and will probably get much worse over the next 3-5 years. Will probably hit $50 billion at some point. Can you show me anyone here arguing FOR debt/deficits? Something which Conservatives are historically just as (more) guilty of by the way. Edited May 18 by aGENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Boudrias said: My question would be why do the 'tax loopholes' exist in the first place? Usually tax breaks are used to encourage private investment. If they are not doing that job well enough then remove them from the tax code. I don't think citizens can condemn people or corporations for utilizing tax incentives. I would certainly agree with a better explanation by government on why they exist and a accurate measurement of the effectiveness. Perhaps another question to address is why capital is leaving Canada to the tune of + $100 billion a year? Been happening for decades. If it is to invest in American operations I would question the effectiveness of NAFTA. IMHO Canada has to have an industrial strategy that both the Liberals and CPC agree to pursue over multiple administrations. The Americans are far more consistent in their priorities than we are. On what basis do you determine gouging? Levi has jeans made in 3rd world countries and sell them for $100's in Canada. Is that gouging? People love to say the grocery stores are gouging us. There is no doubt that their pricing has gone up. What is the fair return for this industry? All are public companies and their profits are available to view. I won't buy their stock as their growth is poor and their ROI is poor, their dividends are not particularly good. Maybe the telcos are. They charge a lot. I was surprised that the Rogers purchase of Shaw was allowed. Bottom line was that Shaw was in financial trouble. Just reading the other day that Telus is investing $100's of billions into their infrastructure across the country. I think Corporations are gouging us requires more detail. Other than closing tax loopholes (unfortunately unlikely given the power of lobbyists), the best way to counter record corporate profits is for workers to demand better compensation and a larger slice of that pie. That's on workers, not the government. Though the Conservatives are historically far more anti-worker/union. Edited May 18 by aGENT 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 10 minutes ago, aGENT said: Can you show me anyone here arguing FOR debt/deficits? Something which Conservatives are historically just as (more) guilty of by the way. Sure, as soon as you can show me where I said that people here are arguing FOR debt/deficits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 4 minutes ago, aGENT said: Other than closing tax loopholes (unfortunately unlikely given the power of lobbyists), the best way to counter record corporate profits is for workers to demand better compensation and a larger slice of that pie. That's on workers, not the government. Though the Conservatives are historically far more anti-worker/union. The other part of that equation (at least from my layman/non-expert perspective) is the point @Boudrias made about capital leaving. Capital is likely to get invested when one or more of three things exist: inexpensive abundant resources, inexpensive abundant labour, or inexpensive abundant expertise. The former two are the domain of plunderers/colonialism, while the latter can sometimes be a bit of a unicorn. Not really sure I have a point to make here, but just my observation by the untrained eye. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 2 minutes ago, aGENT said: Other than closing tax loopholes (unfortunately unlikely given the power of lobbyists), the best way to counter record corporate profits is for workers to demand better compensation and a larger slice of that pie. That's on workers, not the government. Though the Conservatives are historically far more anti-worker/union. Again if tax breaks or incentives are not working then they should be adjusted or eliminated. They were brought in for a purpose. Sure Lobbyists might influence decision making but ultimately it is the politicians responsibility to ensure the public interest is maintained. If they don't they should be held to task, exposed and voted out. Workers are citizens and integral parts of companies. 60 Minutes just ran a program on companies in the USA who issued equity shares in their companies. They are called ESOPs. Employee Stock Ownership Plans. I am a big fan. It merges employee and management goal setting. Far greater employee decision making. All employees were given financial advice on personal finance and involvement in company goal setting. I don't know how well this is done in Canada. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIAHN Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 4 minutes ago, Boudrias said: My question would be why do the 'tax loopholes' exist in the first place? Usually tax breaks are used to encourage private investment. If they are not doing that job well enough then remove them from the tax code. I don't think citizens can condemn people or corporations for utilizing tax incentives. I would certainly agree with a better explanation by government on why they exist and a accurate measurement of the effectiveness. Perhaps another question to address is why capital is leaving Canada to the tune of + $100 billion a year? Been happening for decades. If it is to invest in American operations I would question the effectiveness of NAFTA. IMHO Canada has to have an industrial strategy that both the Liberals and CPC agree to pursue over multiple administrations. The Americans are far more consistent in their priorities than we are. On what basis do you determine gouging? Levi has jeans made in 3rd world countries and sell them for $100's in Canada. Is that gouging? People love to say the grocery stores are gouging us. There is no doubt that their pricing has gone up. What is the fair return for this industry? All are public companies and their profits are available to view. I won't buy their stock as their growth is poor and their ROI is poor, their dividends are not particularly good. Maybe the telcos are. They charge a lot. I was surprised that the Rogers purchase of Shaw was allowed. Bottom line was that Shaw was in financial trouble. Just reading the other day that Telus is investing $100's of billions into their infrastructure across the country. I think Corporations are gouging us requires more detail. These are good questions Boud's Loopholes are for the rich......a person who works minimum wage can fill out his tax return in about 15 minutes, by himself, the more money you get, the longer it takes, untiil you make so much money you need an accountant or a dozen beer and some quiet time. I have a buddy that use to head up IG investments. He and some other "friends" bought a office space, created a holding company, and took tax free dividends. I also have another associate friend who owns a landscape company of 1 (himself) and brags that he does not pay taxes, or very little, because he deducts so much off the top. Including half his house, and all his truck expenses, and he is never audited. These are tax holes for the not so rich, but richer than average. When it gets up to the big boys, you need a accountant to knows where to look, but they are there. I assure you. And they are used every year. As for Billions leaving the country...........DP World, the 3rd largest container shipper in the world, and based out of Dubai, owns or controls, just about every large port on the west Coast of Canada......where do you think their profits go? And why did the Canadian Government allow them to purchase these facilities. Even the Federal Ports is contracting to them. So in actual fact, the Government of Canada is sending money abroad. My friend.......you and I are to blame......we as a people are inactive, and allow this to happen. Government is controlled by big business, and money, that is a fact! I can assure you that if you went to the BC government and demanded to see our Premier, we would not have access, but if Jimmmy Pattersson, did that, the doors would open quickly! And that is with a left leaning government. Imagine how fast it would happen in a right wing government! **** To note.......my friend who bought the office space, with his friends, paid 14% corporate tax, and took a $25,000 dollar dividend for 4 people in his house hold, that is 4 people paying 6% less than the lowest tax rate, which is $6,000 dollars, then he rolled it over to his daughters Tax free saving account, and it is growing and will never be taxed, all on the backs of a McDonald workers salary. I have a tough time chewing after thinking about that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 13 minutes ago, Boudrias said: My question would be why do the 'tax loopholes' exist in the first place? Usually tax breaks are used to encourage private investment. If they are not doing that job well enough then remove them from the tax code. I don't think citizens can condemn people or corporations for utilizing tax incentives. I would certainly agree with a better explanation by government on why they exist and a accurate measurement of the effectiveness. Perhaps another question to address is why capital is leaving Canada to the tune of + $100 billion a year? Been happening for decades. If it is to invest in American operations I would question the effectiveness of NAFTA. IMHO Canada has to have an industrial strategy that both the Liberals and CPC agree to pursue over multiple administrations. The Americans are far more consistent in their priorities than we are. On what basis do you determine gouging? Levi has jeans made in 3rd world countries and sell them for $100's in Canada. Is that gouging? People love to say the grocery stores are gouging us. There is no doubt that their pricing has gone up. What is the fair return for this industry? All are public companies and their profits are available to view. I won't buy their stock as their growth is poor and their ROI is poor, their dividends are not particularly good. Maybe the telcos are. They charge a lot. I was surprised that the Rogers purchase of Shaw was allowed. Bottom line was that Shaw was in financial trouble. Just reading the other day that Telus is investing $100's of billions into their infrastructure across the country. I think Corporations are gouging us requires more detail. Tax loopholes are created by the CRA. The CRA is controlled by the government. So, anyone arguing that rich people don't pay their fair share of taxes should look at the government as to the reason why. Of course everyone is going to take advantage of tax loopholes if they exist, only a fool wouldn't. Has Trudeau closed any of those loopholes since 2015? Grant Thornton LLP did an extensive review of Trudeau's tax policies from 2015-2020. I don't see any loopholes being closed here... The last four years: A look back at Canadian tax policy under Prime Minister Trudeau’s government | Grant Thornton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 14 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Sure, as soon as you can show me where I said that people here are arguing FOR debt/deficits... You two are the ones that keep bringing it up, while arguing for a conservative run government... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 5 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said: The other part of that equation (at least from my layman/non-expert perspective) is the point @Boudrias made about capital leaving. Capital is likely to get invested when one or more of three things exist: inexpensive abundant resources, inexpensive abundant labour, or inexpensive abundant expertise. The former two are the domain of plunderers/colonialism, while the latter can sometimes be a bit of a unicorn. Not really sure I have a point to make here, but just my observation by the untrained eye. I think or hope capital is invested when a business idea matures to the point of asking for funding from investors. A clear business plan details a timeline for development, dollars to be invested, the product to be produced, how it will be marketed and the demand for that production. I think you have over simplified the process. For example the tech industry. Labor is not inexpensive, resources are often intellectual. The timeline can extend for decades on research and development and success is more an oddity than a foregone conclusion. I don't see many plunderers or colonialists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 8 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Again if tax breaks or incentives are not working then they should be adjusted or eliminated. They were brought in for a purpose. Sure Lobbyists might influence decision making but ultimately it is the politicians responsibility to ensure the public interest is maintained. If they don't they should be held to task, exposed and voted out. Workers are citizens and integral parts of companies. 60 Minutes just ran a program on companies in the USA who issued equity shares in their companies. They are called ESOPs. Employee Stock Ownership Plans. I am a big fan. It merges employee and management goal setting. Far greater employee decision making. All employees were given financial advice on personal finance and involvement in company goal setting. I don't know how well this is done in Canada. Both the Liberals and even more so the Conservatives are responsible for bringing in and maintaining those loopholes, tax breaks etc that serve the wealthy/corporations over citizens. The Conservatives are even more corporate/wealthy tax break/loophole friendly than the Liberals. Electing Conservatives to fix that is plain silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIAHN Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 6 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Again if tax breaks or incentives are not working then they should be adjusted or eliminated. They were brought in for a purpose. Sure Lobbyists might influence decision making but ultimately it is the politicians responsibility to ensure the public interest is maintained. If they don't they should be held to task, exposed and voted out. Workers are citizens and integral parts of companies. 60 Minutes just ran a program on companies in the USA who issued equity shares in their companies. They are called ESOPs. Employee Stock Ownership Plans. I am a big fan. It merges employee and management goal setting. Far greater employee decision making. All employees were given financial advice on personal finance and involvement in company goal setting. I don't know how well this is done in Canada. Boud's, here is some reality for you.......... My councilor in school......Ted Miller ( a very nice man, who kept me going to school!) ran and won the NDP riding for the federal NDP. He was fun of idea's and was very popular, inside local NDP circles for that reason. When he arrived in Ottawa, he was shown around, and shown where is seat was.........(back row, beside other newbies) he was then told not to speak at all, and vote as a block, with all the other NDP and guided to by then Ed Broadbent. He was then told by other MP's of other parties, that that is exactly what happened to them.....that my friend was his reality! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 2 minutes ago, Boudrias said: resources are often intellectual Which puts them in the 3rd category - inexpensive abundant expertise. You're kind of right though, I should have qualified the statement with an additional word: the former two are historically the domain of plunderers/colonialism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 I mean, We could try giving the NDP a crack at it. Seems the Cons and Libs are both weak for us peoplekind of Canada. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 Just now, bishopshodan said: I mean, We could try giving the NDP a crack at it. Seems the Cons and Libs are both weak for us peoplekind of Canada. Problem is, a lot of people view the NDP as one step removed from communism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: You two are the ones that keep bringing it up, while arguing for a conservative run government... True, but I never actually said you or anyone else is advocating for more debt and deficits. The Conservative Party may continue to run a deficit in the future. As a matter of act, I'd be shocked if they didn't. $40-50 billion is too much of a debt burden to be able just to get rid of in a short period of time without wiping out all social programs. Problem is neither government will be wiping out the deficit anytime soon, if ever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 Just now, 6of1_halfdozenofother said: Problem is, a lot of people view the NDP as one step removed from communism. Then the... 'Problem is, a lot of people' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 3 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I mean, We could try giving the NDP a crack at it. Seems the Cons and Libs are both weak for us peoplekind of Canada. You really want Jagmeet Singh or Jimmy Dhaliwal or whatever name he chooses next to be running the country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 7 minutes ago, JIAHN said: These are good questions Boud's Loopholes are for the rich......a person who works minimum wage can fill out his tax return in about 15 minutes, by himself, the more money you get, the longer it takes, untiil you make so much money you need an accountant or a dozen beer and some quiet time. I have a buddy that use to head up IG investments. He and some other "friends" bought a office space, created a holding company, and took tax free dividends. I also have another associate friend who owns a landscape company of 1 (himself) and brags that he does not pay taxes, or very little, because he deducts so much off the top. Including half his house, and all his truck expenses, and he is never audited. These are tax holes for the not so rich, but richer than average. When it gets up to the big boys, you need a accountant to knows where to look, but they are there. I assure you. And they are used every year. As for Billions leaving the country...........DP World, the 3rd largest container shipper in the world, and based out of Dubai, owns or controls, just about every large port on the west Coast of Canada......where do you think their profits go? And why did the Canadian Government allow them to purchase these facilities. Even the Federal Ports is contracting to them. So in actual fact, the Government of Canada is sending money abroad. My friend.......you and I are to blame......we as a people are inactivew, and allow this to happen. Government is controlled by big business, and money, that is a fact! I can assure you that if you went to the BC government and demanded to see our Premier, we would not have access, but if Jimmmy Pattersson, did that, the doors would open quickly! And that is with a left leaning government. Imagine how fast it would happen in a right wing government! **** To note.......my friend who bought the office space, with his friends, paid 14% corporate tax, and took a $25,000 dollar dividend for 4 people in his house hold, that is 4 people paying 6% less than the lowest tax rate, which is $6,000 dollars, then he rolled it over to his daughters Tax free saving account, and it is growing and will never be taxed, all on the backs of a McDonald workers salary. I have a tough time chewing after thinking about that! I am a fiscal conservative and I agree with most of what you noted. If fiscal responsibility ever gains government influence everything has to be put on the table. That means many of the situations you describe will have to be cancelled. The federal government budget is in excess of $450 billion. It is the biggest cash cow in the country. It does not make any difference which political party is in power. Professionals good and bad descend on Ottawa to get their piece of the pie. This is repeated in every provincial capital. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: You really want Jagmeet Singh or Jimmy Dhaliwal or whatever name he chooses next to be running the country? I wish all the party leaders would bugger off. I just think the NDP has done well, with what they have, at Fed level. With all the divide, maybe they could take a swing... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIAHN Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 IMO, the government uses inflation to buy down National debt. But , again , IMO, it is a pyramid scheme, that will collapse, at some point, and the people at the bottom, will be left holding the bag! And the old money, that is hidden within society, will still be there, as it was in the Great Depression. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 1 minute ago, bishopshodan said: I mean, We could try giving the NDP a crack at it. Seems the Cons and Libs are both weak for us peoplekind of Canada. I don't like some of their platform. Particularly I think some of their economic ideas are at best naive. Also haven't cared for their about face on the carbon tax evidently only as a means to differentiate themselves from the Liberals, over sound policy. And despite his party's success in attaining goals under this minority government, I think Singh may be the worst leader out of a collection of actual turds of the three major, national parties. That said, I'd welcome a minority NDP government, if nothing else to force the other two parties to do better. Really if we're going to have shitty fiscal management under any of the three parties, we may as well get something out of it as citizens. And we stand a fat better chance of getting something for those tax dollars under the NDP, than we do the Liberals or especially the Cons. It's kind of sad those are our three options though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.