Canadian Politics Thread

[the destroyer of worlds]

3 minutes ago, 112 said:

How do you differentiate persons with disabilities from "idiots sleeping in that can work"? How prevalent do you think abuse of the disability systems in Canada is? I assure you it's not a glamorous lifestyle and anyone who prefers it to working is probably dealing with serious issues you just don't see on the surface.

 

Also, what does stopping unions from lobbying do to help the country?

It's the same as the drug test for welfare crowd.  It turns out that any drug testing program would cost way way way more than the amount saved kicking deadbeat druggies off of welfare.

Edited May 19 by the destroyer of worlds

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

A dictator wouldn't have an election or try & fix the results like VonSh*tsHisPants south of the order.

 

Castro Jr.'s ego is the reason why he's still running.

That’s not true. Even Russia and China still have elections. I’m sure they are fixed but they still have them. 

Edited May 19 by Elias Pettersson

[112]

3 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

It's the same as the drug test for welfare crowd.  It turns out that any drug testing program would cost way way way more than the amount saved kicking deadbeat druggies off of welfare.

Basic welfare, at least in B.C., is different from what a lot of people think in that it requires the recipient to be actively looking for work. It's a pretty harsh reality for "deadbeat druggies". It's not a free ride by any stretch.

 

People with addictions usually have comorbidities, and if they're on disability assistance (which doesn't require the recipient to look for work) it's probably because of these other disorders and not the secondary addiction.

 

I prefer a more compassionate approach to addictions generally. It doesn't help anyone to demonize those with substance use disorders.

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The numbers show outflow was significantly higher under Trudeau than under Harper. If you don’t believe the opinion piece than try posting some numbers that refute what was posted. $25 billion is triple what it was under Harper in his last years. 

Forest fires are three times as bad under Trudeau as they were under Harper.

 

10 times as many people died of sickness and influenza under Trudeau than they did under Harper.

 

Relations and trade with the US are three times as bad under Trudeau as they were under Harper

 

See how easy it is to just make those statements without putting in a corresponding reason for them?

[RupertKBD]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Forest fires are three times as bad under Trudeau as they were under Harper.

 

10 times as many people died of sickness and influenza under Trudeau than they did under Harper.

 

Relations and trade with the US are three times as bad under Trudeau as they were under Harper

 

See how easy it is to just make those statements without putting in a corresponding reason for them?

 

....people from Alberta and Saskatchewan are 1000x as salty under Trudeau as they were under Harper.....

[Bob Long]

23 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

....people from Alberta and Saskatchewan are 1000x as salty under Trudeau as they were under Harper.....

 

Can confirm.

[JIAHN]

6 hours ago, 112 said:

How do you differentiate persons with disabilities from "idiots sleeping in that can work"? How prevalent do you think abuse of the disability systems in Canada is? I assure you it's not a glamorous lifestyle and anyone who prefers it to working is probably dealing with serious issues you just don't see on the surface.

 

Also, what does stopping unions from lobbying do to help the country?

 

That is a good question 112

 

How about actually interview everyone. I am quite sure that, any physical disabled, would only need one interview in a life time, but even there, I am 100% aware of many people who are disabled, and work 70 hour work weeks in very good paying jobs. Others are no so lucky, and need our help. I do not think there are too many people in this country that do not support those in need. Whether, disabled or not. Mentally handicapped need the same laws applied! 

 

But where we have to actually start ripping the scab off, is with those people that are working the system, and I know plenty of people collecting welfare and working cash jobs. Others, simply would rather not work at all, and those people need to be dealt with. There is no excuse for those people in my mind. I come from an extremely poor family, and I worked hard to raise myself out of the gutter. There were many stumbles, and set backs, but I did not quit! I expect that from everyone, that has the ability to work, whether disabled, or just plain lazy, and everything in between. If able, people that are able and are not working, can work for the Government (society) and make hiking trails, clean beaches, sweep sidewalks, etc. (There is dignity in work!) And I ask, why should I pay for some dead beat, to sleep off his stupper?)

 

As for Lobby groups...first let me say, that I and another wonderful lady, unionized our work place, it was hard and dangerous. there was a real fear of loosing my job, if my employer found out. (regardless of the laws!) But still, if we strip the right of employers to lobby the government, then we have to equally strip that away from the worker. It has to be equal. Where we must act, is demanding that our Government, do their jobs, and find out what the country needs. Then act, not the other way around.

 

Owners of companies have 1 vote, as do any workers with in that company....the business has no votes. It is a privilege for business to operate in our country, and we should make them understand that, but equally, we as workers, have a responsibility as well. And we all know too many people that take advantage of the system.

 

Is my statement all encompassing? No! Are there a billion more issues, Yes!, but for all of that, the one glaring void, is that we do not hold our political parties accountable. Why on gods earth do we allow MP's a full pension after so little time? (4 years? or is it 8?) I worked 40 years for a reduced pension....LOL my Choosing! My point is hold all parties accountable. But until we look at our neighbor, and understand that his views are as equally important, than our own, we will be in trouble! Until we go to our local town meetings and ask why?, then we are in trouble!

 

You could feel different, and that is all right! It is your right! but this is how I feel!

Edited May 20 by JIAHN

[The Arrogant Worms]

15 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

That’s not true. Even Russia and China still have elections. I’m sure they are fixed but they still have them. 

You are sure they are fixed????? LOL..  Good one.  They are elections in name only.

[The Arrogant Worms]

[Johngould21]

16 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

That’s not true. Even Russia and China still have elections. I’m sure they are fixed but they still have them. 

You think?

[112]

9 hours ago, JIAHN said:

 

That is a good question 112

 

How about actually interview everyone. I am quite sure that, any physical disabled, would only need one interview in a life time, but even there, I am 100% aware of many people who are disabled, and work 70 hour work weeks in very good paying jobs. Others are no so lucky, and need our help. I do not think there are too many people in this country that do not support those in need. Whether, disabled or not. Mentally handicapped need the same laws applied! 

 

But where we have to actually start ripping the scab off, is with those people that are working the system, and I know plenty of people collecting welfare and working cash jobs. Others, simply would rather not work at all, and those people need to be dealt with. There is no excuse for those people in my mind. I come from an extremely poor family, and I worked hard to raise myself out of the gutter. There were many stumbles, and set backs, but I did not quit! I expect that from everyone, that has the ability to work, whether disabled, or just plain lazy, and everything in between. If able, people that are able and are not working, can work for the Government (society) and make hiking trails, clean beaches, sweep sidewalks, etc. (There is dignity in work!) And I ask, why should I pay for some dead beat, to sleep off his stupper?)

 

As for Lobby groups...first let me say, that I and another wonderful lady, unionized our work place, it was hard and dangerous. there was a real fear of loosing my job, if my employer found out. (regardless of the laws!) But still, if we strip the right of employers to lobby the government, then we have to equally strip that away from the worker. It has to be equal. Where we must act, is demanding that our Government, do their jobs, and find out what the country needs. Then act, not the other way around.

 

Owners of companies have 1 vote, as do any workers with in that company....the business has no votes. It is a privilege for business to operate in our country, and we should make them understand that, but equally, we as workers, have a responsibility as well. And we all know too many people that take advantage of the system.

 

Is my statement all encompassing? No! Are there a billion more issues, Yes!, but for all of that, the one glaring void, is that we do not hold our political parties accountable. Why on gods earth do we allow MP's a full pension after so little time? (4 years? or is it 8?) I worked 40 years for a reduced pension....LOL my Choosing! My point is hold all parties accountable. But until we look at our neighbor, and understand that his views are as equally important, than our own, we will be in trouble! Until we go to our local town meetings and ask why?, then we are in trouble!

 

You could feel different, and that is all right! It is your right! but this is how I feel!

I agree that people who are able to work should be in the work force (unless they're full-time students or homemakers/caregivers). But I don't think welfare/disability fraud is as widespread as you think, and the process for getting on disability or staying on welfare is stringent and thorough. For disability, one needs their doctor and a social worker to fill out a form as part of their application, and doctors/social workers aren't people who cheat the system. They're concerned for their practices and want to get it right. EI can be stretched out for a while, especially if someone works seasonally, but I don't think there are too many people working cash jobs while collecting benefits overall.

 

There are interviews in the welfare process and case workers make it clear to people applying what their responsibilities are. For basic welfare, as I said before, a part of these responsibilities is to be actively looking for work, and they're not allowed to stay on it indefinitely from what I know. You get booted from the program eventually. And so people on disability benefits working cash jobs are the only really bad cheats, but how many people receiving these funds and working under the table is probably not a significant amount when they need a doctor and social worker on their side in the first place.

 

I get where you're coming from on your lobbying position, and I admit I might have a bit of hypocrisy for being okay with shutting down corporate lobbying while allowing unions to keep it up. But I do think that we need strong unions and unionization laws, which are always under threat, if we're to have a strong working class. And part of keeping unions strong is allowing them to petition government. Good on you for your part in unionizing your work place.

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

 

Who is this appealing to? 

[JIAHN]

34 minutes ago, 112 said:

I agree that people who are able to work should be in the work force (unless they're full-time students or homemakers/caregivers). But I don't think welfare/disability fraud is as widespread as you think, and the process for getting on disability or staying on welfare is stringent and thorough. For disability, one needs their doctor and a social worker to fill out a form as part of their application, and doctors/social workers aren't people who cheat the system. They're concerned for their practices and want to get it right. EI can be stretched out for a while, especially if someone works seasonally, but I don't think there are too many people working cash jobs while collecting benefits overall.

 

There are interviews in the welfare process and case workers make it clear to people applying what their responsibilities are. For basic welfare, as I said before, a part of these responsibilities is to be actively looking for work, and they're not allowed to stay on it indefinitely from what I know. You get booted from the program eventually. And so people on disability benefits working cash jobs are the only really bad cheats, but how many people receiving these funds and working under the table is probably not a significant amount when they need a doctor and social worker on their side in the first place.

 

I get where you're coming from on your lobbying position, and I admit I might have a bit of hypocrisy for being okay with shutting down corporate lobbying while allowing unions to keep it up. But I do think that we need strong unions and unionization laws, which are always under threat, if we're to have a strong working class. And part of keeping unions strong is allowing them to petition government. Good on you for your part in unionizing your work place.

 

Thanks for the response!

 

I think you are more right than wrong on the disability issue, but my point was and is, how can 2 people with the same disability, react so differently, one, a working and productive member of society, the other, laying down and letting society look after them? My thought is that we allow it, so they take it. (and I know many that do! ) This of course needs to be overviewed in discussion, as, for those people that can not help themselves, we need to do more! And there lays the rub! Now, as I stated earlier, we need all our parties to work together and create a system that helps those in need. We need different POV, and we need compromise from our politicians, where we build the best mouse trap, that works from all POV.

 

But, I do not want to get bogged down, talking about the those people that need us most, because in the big picture, we just need to take care of them, and they are far, from the biggest, or even the average problem. Because they are not really a problem, more a responsibility of society. Take my money any day, for those that really need it.

 

Cheers!

[Bob Long]

11 hours ago, JIAHN said:

 

That is a good question 112

 

How about actually interview everyone. I am quite sure that, any physical disabled, would only need one interview in a life time, but even there, I am 100% aware of many people who are disabled, and work 70 hour work weeks in very good paying jobs. Others are no so lucky, and need our help. I do not think there are too many people in this country that do not support those in need. Whether, disabled or not. Mentally handicapped need the same laws applied! 

 

But where we have to actually start ripping the scab off, is with those people that are working the system, and I know plenty of people collecting welfare and working cash jobs. Others, simply would rather not work at all, and those people need to be dealt with. There is no excuse for those people in my mind. I come from an extremely poor family, and I worked hard to raise myself out of the gutter. There were many stumbles, and set backs, but I did not quit! I expect that from everyone, that has the ability to work, whether disabled, or just plain lazy, and everything in between. If able, people that are able and are not working, can work for the Government (society) and make hiking trails, clean beaches, sweep sidewalks, etc. (There is dignity in work!) And I ask, why should I pay for some dead beat, to sleep off his stupper?)

 

As for Lobby groups...first let me say, that I and another wonderful lady, unionized our work place, it was hard and dangerous. there was a real fear of loosing my job, if my employer found out. (regardless of the laws!) But still, if we strip the right of employers to lobby the government, then we have to equally strip that away from the worker. It has to be equal. Where we must act, is demanding that our Government, do their jobs, and find out what the country needs. Then act, not the other way around.

 

Owners of companies have 1 vote, as do any workers with in that company....the business has no votes. It is a privilege for business to operate in our country, and we should make them understand that, but equally, we as workers, have a responsibility as well. And we all know too many people that take advantage of the system.

 

Is my statement all encompassing? No! Are there a billion more issues, Yes!, but for all of that, the one glaring void, is that we do not hold our political parties accountable. Why on gods earth do we allow MP's a full pension after so little time? (4 years? or is it 8?) I worked 40 years for a reduced pension....LOL my Choosing! My point is hold all parties accountable. But until we look at our neighbor, and understand that his views are as equally important, than our own, we will be in trouble! Until we go to our local town meetings and ask why?, then we are in trouble!

 

You could feel different, and that is all right! It is your right! but this is how I feel!

 

I knew a quadriplegic fellow who figured out a way to still be able to use his hands with rigging to keep alpine climbing, he could literally drag his chair up the side of a mountain. Not a lazy guy. He was on disability, quite legitimately, and had to face clawbacks on it when he tried to work. Our system is designed to punish people who try to cheat, not lift up the ones that try to do better, imo. We're too focused on the cheaters and not finding ways to really help people like my climber buddy.

 

Everything is a tradeoff. If we focus too much on the cheaters, other suffer. If we focus on more productive folks, there's probably a bit more daylight for someone to cheat. 

 

Similar with lobbying. If we don't have lobbying, many legitimate businesses won't get an audience with government, and things will be left up to MPs that most of the time don't have any clue whats needed in specific areas. But, some larger businesses can really work the system.

 

Not sure what you really want Jan.... that can't be solved by more participation by the average voter. We're very lazy now politically, all we want to know is "who's the leader" and thats about it. A tiny percentage of people care enough to get involved in candidate selection, e.g., at the ground level, or even in leadership selection. 

 

Skippy knows this and is working our collective laziness like a boss. Just whip up the hoopleheads, get 'em angry, and he gets the big job.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 20 by Bob Long

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

What is Justin Trudeau’s net worth? 

[JIAHN]

34 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

What is Justin Trudeau’s net worth? 

Elias, you are way too fixated on JT

 

Focus on their political platforms

 

What they stand for........

 

Conservatives believe in small government, and that business can do it better

 

This has been proven wrong, every time government has let them try

 

Our Artic tundra is littered with gas well exploration debris

 

We have over fished in our oceans

 

Mining has produced horrific spills because there is not enough inspectors

 

And we have sold off our natural resources

 

This is big business, at its best? Where does this fit in your needs?

 

It sure the hell does not fit mine!

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

What is Justin Trudeau’s net worth? 

Castro Jr is a nepo baby though he did 'slum it for a bit' as a teacher.

 

Pee-pee has been sucking on the government teat all his life.

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Castro Jr is a nepo baby though he did 'slum it for a bit' as a teacher.

 

Pee-pee has been sucking on the government teat all his life.

 

Both are worth in the millions and neither one is for the people or gives a shit about me and you...

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Both are worth in the millions and neither one is for the people or gives a shit about me and you...

Well I don't give a sh*t about you either.

[bishopshodan]

What's important to me is who has the nicest watch?

 

I was sure it was the 'Man of the people' but now I see 'Little PP' has entered the race. Does 'Castro Jr' have strong enough wrists for a watch? I bet his is a diamond encrusted Mickey Mouse pocket watch.

 

 

( sorry just felt like using some nicknames, dont mind me)

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

What's important to me is who has the nicest watch?

 

I was sure it was the 'Man of the people' but now I see 'Little PP' has entered the race. Does 'Castro Jr' have strong enough wrists for a watch? I bet his is a diamond encrusted Mickey Mouse pocket watch.

 

 

( sorry just felt like using some nicknames, dont mind me)

 

I don't wear a watch... now I'm really confused about who to vote for.

[RupertKBD]

19 hours ago, 112 said:

How do you differentiate persons with disabilities from "idiots sleeping in that can work"? How prevalent do you think abuse of the disability systems in Canada is? I assure you it's not a glamorous lifestyle and anyone who prefers it to working is probably dealing with serious issues you just don't see on the surface.

 

Also, what does stopping unions from lobbying do to help the country?

 

Yeah, this is a tired old trope....

 

Everyone is so worried about the few who game the system, they assume that the systems needs some sort of drastic overhaul....except that nobody knows what that would look like, or how the fuck they would actually accomplish this...

 

All they know is that it's the government's fault that "their" tax dollars are being wasted on lazy bums who "don't want to work"....

[NewbieCanuckFan]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I don't wear a watch... now I'm really confused about who to vote for.

I like either candidate more than Herr VonnSh*'hispants 

Edited May 20 by NewbieCanuckFan

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I don't wear a watch... now I'm really confused about who to vote for.

 

 

It really is the most important voting issue. By far. 

 

 

 

[RupertKBD]

20 hours ago, 112 said:

Basic welfare, at least in B.C., is different from what a lot of people think in that it requires the recipient to be actively looking for work. It's a pretty harsh reality for "deadbeat druggies". It's not a free ride by any stretch.

 

People with addictions usually have comorbidities, and if they're on disability assistance (which doesn't require the recipient to look for work) it's probably because of these other disorders and not the secondary addiction.

 

I prefer a more compassionate approach to addictions generally. It doesn't help anyone to demonize those with substance use disorders.

 

It absolutely is and those who criticize it don't know what they're talking about.

 

When I finished touring with various bands back in the late 80's, I couldn't find a job and didn't qualify for EI....I had no choice but to go on Welfare. I felt no guilt in this, because by that point, I had been paying taxes for years....

 

Still, the Welfare office treated me like I was stealing the money. I had to fill out a form with the names of various places where I had applied for work every month and if there was anything missing or incomplete, they wouldn't say anything, they just wouldn't send that month's cheque.

Edited May 20 by RupertKBD