Warhippy Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Trudeau's promised made-in-Canada vaccine plant hasn't produced any shots At the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made a multi-million dollar funding commitment to build a vaccine plant in Montreal to churn out Canadian-made COVID-19 shots by the end of 2020. Four years later, not a single vial of usable vaccine has rolled off the line. The publicly owned Biologics Manufacturing Centre (BMC) was built quickly on National Research Council-owned land at the site of a former animal vaccines plant, thanks to a cash injection of nearly $130 million from the federal government. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-made-in-canada-covid-vaccine-novavax-1.7211462 Just so we're clear. We now have a national lab capable of producing vaccines, even though it isn't producing one specific vaccine to one specific virus. But will be able to roll out other vaccines or anti virals in the future at a national level for Canadians. But it isn't producing one specific vaccine right now and hasn't and probably wont. Am I following correctly? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 33 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Just so we're clear. We now have a national lab capable of producing vaccines, even though it isn't producing one specific vaccine to one specific virus. But will be able to roll out other vaccines or anti virals in the future at a national level for Canadians. But it isn't producing one specific vaccine right now and hasn't and probably wont. Am I following correctly? Spending 17 million annually to produce nothing at all is ok. Am I following correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 21 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Spending 17 million annually to produce nothing at all is ok. Am I following correctly? We are not currently at war, why do we need a military? 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 25 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Spending 17 million annually to produce nothing at all is ok. Am I following correctly? No. You're not. ... .....Unless you think there's no point in having a fire department, because there's nothing on fire at this particular moment.... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 9 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: No. You're not. ... .....Unless you think there's no point in having a fire department, because there's nothing on fire at this particular moment.... Umm they could be producing other vaccines no? That is a beyond ridiculous comparison as well as the fire department does alot more than just put out fires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 15 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: No. You're not. ... .....Unless you think there's no point in having a fire department, because there's nothing on fire at this particular moment.... "I'm very concerned when I hear about a vaccine facility that's not pumping out products. When they sit idle, that's a bad sign. You should be busy all the time, you should be active, current, having your staff putting out licensed product continuously." He said the federal government may eventually get tired of pumping $17 million into a plant that's not producing anything — or something that's not really in high demand. Doesn't seem to jive with your line of thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 13 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Umm they could be producing other vaccines no? That is a beyond ridiculous comparison as well as the fire department does alot more than just put out fires its new tech Ricky, that can take years to develop under normal circumstances. Its an investment. You know, like all the federal money that went into oilsands R&D long before it paid off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 34 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said: We are not currently at war, why do we need a military? I haven't needed a hospital for years, shut that motherf***er down. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: "I'm very concerned when I hear about a vaccine facility that's not pumping out products. When they sit idle, that's a bad sign. You should be busy all the time, you should be active, current, having your staff putting out licensed product continuously." He said the federal government may eventually get tired of pumping $17 million into a plant that's not producing anything — or something that's not really in high demand. Doesn't seem to jive with your line of thinking Same guy is also saying we also shouldn't moving away from this, he also mentions that there is a surplus of covid vaccines in the market, which is why astrazenica stopped production, so not much work to be done on that front. They should be producing something ideally, but I don't think we should double down on the mistake of shuttering it, the government came under flack during covid for not having these facilities in place. It is as important as a fire department or military to maintain in case the next pandemic hits. He added there's "amnesia with pandemics in the extreme" and Ottawa may simply move on from plans to prepare the country for the next health crisis. "It's a bit scary when you think of other Crown corporations in the past," he said, referring to the once world-leading Connaught Labs in Toronto that was at the forefront of vaccine development for decades before it was privatized. Edited May 25 by DSVII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duodenum Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 1 hour ago, Warhippy said: Just so we're clear. We now have a national lab capable of producing vaccines, even though it isn't producing one specific vaccine to one specific virus. But will be able to roll out other vaccines or anti virals in the future at a national level for Canadians. But it isn't producing one specific vaccine right now and hasn't and probably wont. Am I following correctly? Their biggest mistake was signing the production contract with Novavax, a failing company that's bleeding money and not getting any runway with their vaccines in development. Nobody wants their non-mrna covid shots and their rsv vaccine has been a failure as well. The contract should've gone to a more established company. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 10 minutes ago, Duodenum said: Their biggest mistake was signing the production contract with Novavax, a failing company that's bleeding money and not getting any runway with their vaccines in development. Nobody wants their non-mrna covid shots and their rsv vaccine has been a failure as well. The contract should've gone to a more established company. Desperation makes for risky decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ricky Ravioli said: Spending 17 million annually to produce nothing at all is ok. Am I following correctly? If you want people to actually listen to what you say, then you might want to stop saying things such as calling the vaccination industry "nothing at all." Just to put things into perspective, if I told you worrying about the debt was "nothing at all" would you take me seriously? Because that's effectively what you've said to the other side just with vaccines instead. (And yes, there are people who have treated the debt like it's nothing at all so I know exactly how you generally respond to that stuff. My point is you're doing the same thing to the opposite side) If you want to get people on your side, you need to actually think about what's important to the other side. Neglecting what's important to the other side gets you nowhere. But, if all you're trying to do is keep the arguments going without actually convincing anyone... well your comment will certainly do that. Edited May 25 by The Lock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 1 hour ago, The Lock said: If you want people to actually listen to what you say, then you might want to stop saying things such as calling the vaccination industry "nothing at all What? The facility is not producing any sellable products hence "nothing at all". 17 million dollars a year and no sellable products. I'm not sure what your argument is here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 1 minute ago, Spring Salmon said: What? The facility is not producing any sellable products hence "nothing at all". 17 million dollars a year and no sellable products. I'm not sure what your argument is here It's an industry that employs people and improves medicine. Should we not innovate and just rely on other nations? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 Just now, Spring Salmon said: What? The facility is not producing any sellable products hence "nothing at all". 17 million dollars a year and no sellable products. I'm not sure what your argument is here You do realize you make no sense, right? Poo Poo is an idiot. Any who vote for an idiot are morans. We need to be making our own vaccines. Listen to Mr. T and “don’t be a fool, fool”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 33 minutes ago, The Lock said: It's an industry that employs people and improves medicine. Should we not innovate and just rely on other nations? There's no reason why it can't make something to sell and innovate at the same time. Businesses do that all the time. The taxpayer can't employ everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 37 minutes ago, Alflives said: You do realize you make no sense, right? Poo Poo is an idiot. Any who vote for an idiot are morans. We need to be making our own vaccines. Listen to Mr. T and “don’t be a fool, fool”. Is there a point to this rambling nonsense? PooPoo, weak personal insults, MrT, and again with that stupid "Moran" meme. Like you said we need to be making our own vaccines so how about we do that then? This was just a dumb post, even by your standards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 41 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: There's no reason why it can't make something to sell and innovate at the same time. Businesses do that all the time. The taxpayer can't employ everybody. It does though. By not making people sick, it means there are less people in need of aid in the healthcare system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 11 hours ago, The Lock said: It does though. By not making people sick, it means there are less people in need of aid in the healthcare system. Alright can you explain that. How are they not making people sick and in need of healthcare? The CBC article says they haven't produced a single vial of usable vaccine. Even if they did people have only taken 37 000 novavax vaccines compared to over 100 million Pfizer and moderna shots. I think the big two have that market locked up. The bottom line is if we have to keep supporting it, it needs to produce something of value in the meantime. Again as the article states it could be producing non covid related products for Canadians that they need now or in the future. Make something like tetanus shots or flu shots or something we actually need now, not a covid vaccine that only 37 000 people have taken. You know something to pay the bills. It's just unfortunate we never get our money's worth with the government, not just the current liberals, any of the parties really 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: Alright can you explain that. How are they not making people sick and in need of healthcare? The CBC article says they haven't produced a single vial of usable vaccine. Even if they did people have only taken 37 000 novavax vaccines compared to over 100 million Pfizer and moderna shots. I think the big two have that market locked up. The bottom line is if we have to keep supporting it, it needs to produce something of value in the meantime. Again as the article states it could be producing non covid related products for Canadians that they need now or in the future. Make something like tetanus shots or flu shots or something we actually need now, not a covid vaccine that only 37 000 people have taken. You know something to pay the bills. It's just unfortunate we never get our money's worth with the government, not just the current liberals, any of the parties really It's not that complicated dude (unless if you're an anti-vaxxer or something and don't believe that vaccines work). Having better vaccines and drugs means: - Patients aren't in the hospital as long - Less patients need to go to the hospital in the 1st place - Less doctors appointments free up time - Wait lists are shorter etc. If you take a vaccine and it works, it means you're not getting sick or at least not sick enough to have to go to the doctor or hospital. If you take drugs that work it means you recover faster. The more research we do, the more this happens. All of this saves a crap ton of money in the end. I get that you're thinking entirely in terms of money and I'm not giving you monetary values, but you have to look at the impact this research does to see the benefit. If you just look at it as a way to make money, we might as well have a government not invest in anything. Our military doesn't make money. Our healthcare system doesn't make money, etc. If nothing else, think of it as part of the healthcare system, because it is indirectly. Edited May 25 by The Lock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 1 minute ago, The Lock said: It's not that complicated dude (unless if you're an anti-vaxxer or something and don't believe that vaccines work). Having better vaccines and drugs means: - Patients aren't in the hospital as long - Less patients need to go to the hospital in the 1st place - Less doctors appointments free up time - Wait lists are shorter etc. If you take a vaccine and it works, it means you're not getting sick. If you take drugs that work it means you recover faster. All of this saves a crap ton of money in the end. Ok for the last time this facility hasn't made one vial of usable vaccine in 4 years. BMC still wants to make a outdated vaccine that only 37 000 people have taken. Why? That's the definition of wasting money. As I already said the big two have that market locked up. I understand how vaccines and medications places less of a burden on healthcare but this facility hasn't made anything, they just want to make a vax that no one is taking. But go on and call people anti vaxxers when you disagree with them You are right though it isn't complicated. So why can't you see it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: Ok for the last time this facility hasn't made one vial of usable vaccine in 4 years. BMC still wants to make a outdated vaccine that only 37 000 people have taken. Why? That's the definition of wasting money. As I already said the big two have that market locked up. I understand how vaccines and medications places less of a burden on healthcare but this facility hasn't made anything, they just want to make a vax that no one is taking. But go on and call people anti vaxxers when you disagree with them You are right though it isn't complicated. So why can't you see it? First of all, I didn't call you an anti-vaxxer. I said "unless if you're an anti-vaxxer". If you're not then great, you should at least be able to see where I'm coming from. If the facility is not succeeding in producing a vaccine, then I'd rather see the facility focus on vaccines and cures for other areas to be honest rather than just cutting the cord. This isn't me being naive or anything. I just really think it's important for our healthcare sytstem. Sucks if the facility hasn't done much in 4 years, but I'd also rather see the research not wasted either. Edited May 25 by The Lock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 3 minutes ago, The Lock said: First of all, I didn't call you an anti-vaxxer. I said "unless if you're an anti-vaxxer". If you're not then great, you should at least be able to see where I'm coming from. If the facility is not succeeding in producing a vaccine, then I'd rather see the facility focus on vaccines and cures for other areas to be honest rather than just cutting the cord. This isn't me being naive or anything. I just really think it's important for our healthcare sytstem. Sucks if the facility hasn't done much in 4 years, but I'd also rather see the research not wasted either. Did you read my previous post? No where did I say we should cut the cord. I said it needs to make something useful. Something, anything really. Are you purposely misunderstanding me or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: Did you read my previous post? No where did I say we should cut the cord. I said it needs to make something useful. Something, anything really. Are you purposely misunderstanding me or something? Nope. I'm just busy looking for work so forum stuff is secondary for me right now to be honest. I'm in survival mode at the moment. Glad you're not against the money continuing to be used as long as it's still going towards the same stuff provided it's useful. Edited May 25 by The Lock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 2 minutes ago, The Lock said: Nope. I'm just busy looking for work so forum stuff is secondary for me right now to be honest. Good god man then why respond to a post that you didn't read? Anyway this was fun(not really) but I'm off to the marina, Good luck with your job search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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