Canadian Politics Thread

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Yup, I know. I am not going to change anyone's mind, not even gonna try, but I am firm in my feeling on it. If this was a British or Swiss immigrant, different outcome, in my opinion. 

 

But it wasn't. Not sure why playing a theoretical race thing helps? 

 

What did this guy do to deserve to remain here? Because he's from India? 

[Alflives]

12 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Yup, I know. I am not going to change anyone's mind, not even gonna try, but I am firm in my feeling on it. If this was a British or Swiss immigrant, different outcome, in my opinion. 

The owners of the companies hiring and using these poorly trained and often accident causing drivers need to face criminal charges and serve jail time. 

[bishopshodan]

9 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

Because he's from India? 

 

What happens to him when he gets back to India?

Will they impose a punishment similar to what he would have faced in Canada?

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

 

What happens to him when he gets back to India?

Will they impose a punishment similar to what he would have faced in Canada?

he was already sentenced to years in prison and is currently on parole/probation. 

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

he was already sentenced to years in prison and is currently on parole/probation. 

Ok, thankyou.

I havent followed.

 

I agree that blame also should be placed on the owners of these companies

[Gurn]

2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Ok, thankyou.

I havent followed.

 

I agree that blame also should be placed on the owners of these companies

And on those governments that changed the rules, after this tragedy;  then  waited a few months to return the rules, to 'business as normal'

They were going to fix the issue, but changed their mind, after the public uproar faded away.

Scum-the lot of them are scum.

[Bob Long]

25 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

What happens to him when he gets back to India?

Will they impose a punishment similar to what he would have faced in Canada?

 

No idea, not our problem.

 

I think it's important to remember that he's being sent back to the largest democracy on the planet, not some hell hole.

Edited May 26 by Bob Long

[Bob Long]

15 minutes ago, Gurn said:

And on those governments that changed the rules, after this tragedy;  then  waited a few months to return the rules, to 'business as normal'

They were going to fix the issue, but changed their mind, after the public uproar faded away.

Scum-the lot of them are scum.

 

One of the reasons I can't stand Moe, he's a real piece of shit.

[bishopshodan]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

No idea, not our problem.

 

I think it's important to remember that he's being sent back to the largest democracy on the planet, not some hell hole.

Haha, I never thought India was a hell hole. Dont know why you added that. 

 

Anyway, yep he's just one dude and now not our problem.

We, seem to have a much bigger problem....the trucking industry and it's standards. 

[Bob Long]

Just now, bishopshodan said:

Haha, I never thought India was a hell hole. Dont know why you added that. 

 

Because I've seen some comments about it being unfair to send him back there because it's somehow going to be harder for him. Maybe he ends up working on a beach in Goa.

 

Just now, bishopshodan said:

Anyway, yep he's just one dude and now not our problem.

We, seem to have a much bigger problem....the trucking industry and it's standards. 

 

That's why I bristled a bit at the addition of race to this, I think it distracts from the main issue.

 

I have a lot of respect for @Optimist Prime and not trying to start a fight.

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

Because I've seen some comments about it being unfair to send him back there because it's somehow going to be harder for him. Maybe he ends up working on a beach in Goa.

 

Few guys at work i consider friends are new to our country from India.

One's an ex cop ( very high level), one worked in the stock market, one was a uni track star. 
All speak 4 languages. Just awesome dudes. 

 

They make me want to visit India. The comments you have seen are not in line with my thoughts. 

[RupertKBD]

48 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Yup, I know. I am not going to change anyone's mind, not even gonna try, but I am firm in my feeling on it. If this was a British or Swiss immigrant, different outcome, in my opinion. 

 

I was part of that extreme minority that you mentioned earlier....I argued with just about everyone....

 

The biggest problem I have with this is that with Sidhu being deported, the various levels of government will pat themselves on the back, asserting that the criminal was sent to jail and then sent home.....case closed....justice served. But was it?

 

Did the owners of the company receive any fines for inadequate training? Has there been any changes in how drivers are certified? Not to my knowledge....

 

But hey, the guy who came to Canada trying to make a better life for himself and his family has been kicked out of the country, so we can all feel better now, amirite?

[Optimist Prime]

6 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I was part of that extreme minority that you mentioned earlier....I argued with just about everyone....

 

The biggest problem I have with this is that with Sidhu being deported, the various levels of government will pat themselves on the back, asserting that the criminal was sent to jail and then sent home.....case closed....justice served. But was it?

 

Did the owners of the company receive any fines for inadequate training? Has there been any changes in how drivers are certified? Not to my knowledge....

 

But hey, the guy who came to Canada trying to make a better life for himself and his family has been kicked out of the country, so we can all feel better now, amirite?

Yeah, revenge is not a factor in the criminal justice principles I studied in while learning Criminology after high school.  But it seems to be the motivating factor here, in my opinion. I am not convinced that skin tone wasn't a part of the decision process. Every teenage white boy whose dad buys him a car runs a stop sign or fails to yield almost daily. This guy did it while being an immigrant from a non european country. I don't believe the deportation order is a suitable punishment for the crime. It does tick a lot of revenge boxes though and most people see it as a suitable punishment to exact revenge, which is why I won't waste my breathe trying to change peoples minds. He may win on appeal or humanitarian grounds, and get to stay with his wife and sick kid here in Canada. 

[Bob Long]

15 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

 

They make me want to visit India. The comments you have seen are not in line with my thoughts. 

 

nor mine. Just going off some the yap in the news, from some folks sympathetic to him. 

[Bob Long]

12 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Yeah, revenge is not a factor in the criminal justice principles I studied in while learning Criminology after high school.  But it seems to be the motivating factor here, in my opinion. I am not convinced that skin tone wasn't a part of the decision process. Every teenage white boy whose dad buys him a car runs a stop sign or fails to yield almost daily. This guy did it while being an immigrant from a non european country. I don't believe the deportation order is a suitable punishment for the crime. It does tick a lot of revenge boxes though and most people see it as a suitable punishment to exact revenge, which is why I won't waste my breathe trying to change peoples minds. He may win on appeal or humanitarian grounds, and get to stay with his wife and sick kid here in Canada. 

 

is it revenge, or simply the most justice our system allows? We can't do anything more about the kids running stop signs than the law allows. 

 

Even if you could prove that bringing him to the hearing in the first place had a racist element, you'd also have to believe that the judge and our laws were also racist to arrive at the decision. I don't believe that, and don't think thats provable in this case. 

 

Edited May 26 by Bob Long

[Gurn]

7 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

But hey, the guy who came to Canada trying to make a better life for himself and his family has been kicked out of the country, so we can all feel better now, amirite?

We are/have become a lot more 'show' than "go' society.

Make it look like something is being done-because the appearance of doing something is now enough, for most people.

 

Many of us have mentioned this kind of thinking as messed up but here we are.

 

Wear a pink shirt to fight bullying

wear an orange shirt to fight the racism involved in those despicable residential schools

wear a red shirt to fight for inclusion and accessibility

 

cool I bought or dyed a t shirt, guess my work on these issues is done with, now.

[Bob Long]

15 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I was part of that extreme minority that you mentioned earlier....I argued with just about everyone....

 

The biggest problem I have with this is that with Sidhu being deported, the various levels of government will pat themselves on the back, asserting that the criminal was sent to jail and then sent home.....case closed....justice served. But was it?

 

Did the owners of the company receive any fines for inadequate training? Has there been any changes in how drivers are certified? Not to my knowledge....

 

But hey, the guy who came to Canada trying to make a better life for himself and his family has been kicked out of the country, so we can all feel better now, amirite?

 

you might, if he killed one of your family members. Some of them want it, some of them don't. 

 

I don't see why him wanting to come here for a better life matters, 100's of thousands of people do that every year, it doesn't make him deserve special treatment in any way, imo. 

 

[RupertKBD]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

you might, if he killed one of your family members. Some of them want it, some of them don't. 

 

I don't see why him wanting to come here for a better life matters, 100's of thousands of people do that every year, it doesn't make him deserve special treatment in any way, imo. 

 

 

Which is why these decisions aren't made by the families.

 

I think @Optimist Prime 's use of the word "revenge" is apt and I don't see it as "special treatment" to avoid deportation, after his sentence is served.

[Bob Long]

24 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Which is why these decisions aren't made by the families.

 

I think @Optimist Prime 's use of the word "revenge" is apt and I don't see it as "special treatment" to avoid deportation, after his sentence is served.

 

Why does he deserve to stay, in your opinion?

[RupertKBD]

10 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

Why does he deserve to stay, in your opinion?

 

I think he's served his time and deporting him serves no purpose other than to make people feel better.

 

He also has an infant son with serious medical issues.

[Bob Long]

12 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I think he's served his time and deporting him serves no purpose other than to make people feel better.

 

So you see no value in sending a message to other drivers like him? If even one of these poorly trained guys drives a bit safer and it prevents another accident it's worth it. 

 

By not deporting him, we are doing what Moe did, and telling the industry we won't do everything we can.

 

12 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

He also has an infant son with serious medical issues.

 

Ok, and? The kid is Canadian and has access to our system.

[Johngould21]

A question. Who should be responsible for all the trucks hitting the overpasses etc.? Company owners, or drivers?  They all should share blame, but I’m thinking the drivers get most of the flack. No one usually gets injured or killed in these incidents, or instances, but sooner or later it will happen.

Edited May 26 by Johngould21

[RupertKBD]

31 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

So you see no value in sending a message to other drivers like him? If even one of these poorly trained guys drives a bit safer and it prevents another accident it's worth it. 

 

By not deporting him, we are doing what Moe did, and telling the industry we won't do everything we can.

 

Ok, and? The kid is Canadian and has access to our system.

 

#1 - I think the prison sentence covers that.

#2 - We've already done that by doing nothing to the company / industry

#3 - Yes. But he won't have his father with him

[Bob Long]

20 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

#1 - I think the prison sentence covers that.

 

But the system has deportation as a subsequent option.

 

I understand if you personally object, but I don't see a legal or moral reason to not use this option.

 

20 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

#2 - We've already done that by doing nothing to the company / industry

 

And imo we are adding to this I'd we let him stay.

 

For me, having at least the potential for this to wake up a few drivers is worth it. Many of these guys have something to lose if they can't earn money in Canada. Maybe a few drive safer.

 

20 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

#3 - Yes. But he won't have his father with him

 

Consequences are hard.

[Bob Long]

32 minutes ago, Johngould21 said:

A question. Who should be responsible for all the trucks hitting the overpasses etc.? Company owners, or drivers?  They all should share blame, but I’m thinking the drivers get most of the flack. No one usually gets injured or killed in these incidents, or instances, but sooner or later it will happen.

 

All of them.