Canadian Politics Thread

[NoHeart]

3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Not my fault you're getting gouged then.  Mine is way lower, and I'm not alone.

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/9842720/wireless-prices-phone-internet-canada/

Cool man. 11% of a $400 a month phone bill. 

[NoHeart]

Just now, King Heffy said:

People struggling to make ends meet don't have the disposable income to do that.

Why would you be struggling to make ends meet? The liberals promised 9 years ago that they were going to take care of those people. I’m really confused guys. 

[Ralph.]

1 minute ago, NoHeart said:

Cool man. 11% of a $400 a month phone bill. 

Is... Is your phone bill $400 a month?

[King Heffy]

Just now, NoHeart said:

Cool man. 11% of a $400 a month phone bill. 

11% is a pretty good rate of return.  You asked for an example of something that was improved financially under the Liberals and were provided one, with a source.

[King Heffy]

Just now, NoHeart said:

Why would you be struggling to make ends meet? The liberals promised 9 years ago that they were going to take care of those people. I’m really confused guys. 

I'm not.  But if people are complaining that they are, that's not a reasonable solution for them and will only cause more disparity in wealth going forward.  This is the Marie Antoinette school of economics.

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, NoHeart said:

I guess we are going to find out here in a little less than a year when the conservatives have a majority government. I don’t see how anyone could possibly be comfortable going forward with what we have now. It makes me believe that people in places like Vancouver have just completely given up on accumulating wealth and bettering their lives on their own accord. When I was in my 20’s I had all the opportunity and resources I needed to advance in my life. Those opportunities don’t exist anymore so the social crutch is really the only thing you have to lean on.

 

Our treasury is in shambles, our economy is almost completely based off the debt of the housing market. We need to diversify the treasury to strengthen our dollar to drive down inflation. The notion of backing our currency with crypto use to be an argument made by the left on how incompetent PP’s suggestion was.

Looking back on that now, it would’ve flattened the inflation curve today, and we’d probably already be in quantitative easing.

 

Liberal minded people should honestly stay out of everything related to economics and let the fiscally responsible conservatives take care of our currency before we completely unravel here. This is such a dire need for Canada right now that nothing else really matters. Ironically, the best option to grow Canada’s wealth right now and preserve the nations social programs is a fiscally responsible government. If we continue to borrow against our treasury, our credit rating will degrade, and the cost of borrowing will increase further. That coupled with inflation will put us into a unprecedented recession. 

Gonna try to tackle this revisionist history and false dichotomy one at a time here by answering sections in bolded and numbered

 

1.  When you were in your 20s.  So do me a favour.  Show me when the last time a government got in to power and made everything cheaper happened in Canada or anywhere.  Newsflash, things don't get cheaper.  That's not how our system of economics work.  Trying to fool people by claiming otherwise only works on the ill educated

 

2.  OK.  Wanna know how investments work.  People bet on things to do X or Y to make themselves richer.  Wanna see certain entities get serious about crypto?  Take one of the largest economies in the G 20 and back their currency by crypto and watch the shit storm commence.  People would literally be shorting our dollar and idiots on reddit would be controlling our economic fate.  The thing about a nations currency having value is that it is backed by aspects of that nation from resources to manufacturing to control over both.  Crypto gives control of none of that as it is literally a made up thing like mario coin.  You're creating a false future and suggesting something magical would happen without thinking of the reality of it.  Because as easily as bitcoin rose, it could have absolutely tanked to $10k per coin and what would have happened to our economy or purchasing power if our "loonie" lost 2/3s of its value overnight?  

 

3.  Liberal minded people?  Just to clarify in the past 45 years "liberal minded people" have grown the economy in ways that Conservatives never have while preserving social programs.  Fiscally responsible conservatives?  Just a heads up, of the last 2 Conservative governments under Harper and MUlroney they collectively raised the debt by over $400 billion themselves and Mulroney did it under 20% + interest ratings while Harper, whom Pierre was a seriously visible and important figure under, did it with essentially nil interest ratings and a record high petro dollar.  But both had to sell massive amounts of sovereign wealth and crown corps to maintain a semblance of fiscal responsibility towards their final years in office.

 

4.  Cons cut programs period.  This is inarguable.  Going back almost 60 years every single Conservative government (barring 2 years of one) have cut social programs to balance debt or decrease spending.  Don't @ me with that bullshit because numbers don't lie

 

1 hour ago, NoHeart said:

I respect and mostly agree with left leaning social theory. However, there are far more pressing issues right now and people who can really look deep into what the future holds with this trajectory will be able to put those beliefs aside and at the very least, vote for a change to flatten that curve. Base your vote on results. Nobody can guarantee the conservatives will do any better but a change is guaranteed and that has to happen based on performance alone. I am currently buying Canadian currency based on the inevitable pop when the conservatives win. That sentiment is actually already built into our currency now. If they don’t win a majority next fall the dollar will plummet further and accelerate/ deepen our recession. 

1.  This is not a factual statement.  it is one that you have created as nobody can guess or tell what will happen in the future.  The cons could win but the dollar could tank.  The Libs could hang on and the dollar could rise.  Nobody can tell much like your crypto statement.  It holds no actual truth as it is a hypothetical

 

 

56 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

Look at the strength of our currency pre 2015. Prior to 2015 the CAD was a petro dollar. Our currency was backed by our wealth in oil. The liberal government has implemented policies and regulations that have contracted/ stagnated our oil wealth and separated the correlation between the price of oil and the strength of our currency.

 

To simplify, imagine Canada is a company and our currency is a share. When you look to buy stock you look at assets, debt, and revenue. If any of these pillars are disrupted the value of that share diminishes. We replaced our oil wealth with nothing and we borrowed against our treasury.

 

Any growth in GDP was artificially created by the debt of the housing market. Our portfolio is hollow. We need to diversify our revenue sources and treasury. If your platform is environmental and your goal is to reduce our dependence on hydrocarbons that’s fine. You just need to replace it while with something else whole you’re scaling it down. Taxing the use of hydrocarbons without a viable second option is flat out dictatorship. If this government was serious about environmental change, they should have used their resource based revenue to develop green infrastructure. Taxing something you have no choice in buying is criminal and another inflationary factor. 

1.  Prior to 2015 what?  We're not the Saudis or Venezuela.  While at times due to the massive increase in oil prices our dollar has ben viewed as tied to petro currency it has NEVER been a petro dollar.  Prior to 2015 oil was at all time highs.  In late 2014 oil tanked.  Hard.  It stayed low for almost 4 years.  This coupled with the snit fit of companies pissed off that an NDP government was in Alberta and was demanding a shade more money on the royalty end of things caused companies to pause production and they moved towards the booming shale beds in the Bakkans (NE USA) and the newly found steam injection runs in the Permian basin in the texas and Oklahoma regions.  You can recreate history all you want but that doesn't make it true any more than removing a statue erases historical fact.

 

2.  We replaced it with nothing?  Ok.  Sure.  No new refineries or pipelines have been built since then right?  With a minority government here and an NDP government in Alberta nothing new happened right?  Think about that long and hard.

 

3.  Our artificially floated GDP has been buoyed by the housing market for longer than a decade.  Your statement doesn't change the fact that Vancouver and Toronto areas have been world leaders in the top 20 for almost 16 years for housing costs.  At the old CDC site there was an ongoing thread created around 2011 where people were losing their minds at the price of and lack of housing.  To claim this is relatively new is bullshit.

 

4.  Flat.  Out.  Dictatorship.  OK.  I won't even bother with this one but boy do I have some questions for you.

 

36 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

Performance, you can’t look back at any past party’s performance and compare it to the landscape today. The iPhone was barely a thing the last time the conservatives were in office FFS. The only thing that matters right now is inflation and the cost of borrowing. If we don’t get this under control immediately there won’t be anything left. The sentiment alone from a conservative majority will strengthen our currency and flatten inflation. Before he even steps into the office. 

To add, unions are extremely detrimental to economic growth. They give foreign countries a competitive advantage over our goods and services. Unions were the kiss of death for manufacturing in the developed world. They drove up the demand for foreign labour. The products that surround us from child labour are the fruits of unionization. Congratulations. 

 

1.  We can't?  So with his almost decade long run in office with a majority and an oil friendly government in Alberta and Sask the lack of any new refineries or pipelines built in that near decade didn't have any bad effects today?  Amazing.  See the amusing thing is legislation at the federal level takes 14-18 months on average to start affecting the general economy.  So anyone taking office tomorrow will have  a year + of past legislation that will buoy or sink them.  That's how the system works.  Nothing happens overnight, but you sure as shit could see that selling the wheat board lead to higher prices here.  Selling the rail system that our grain was shipped on sure as shit lead to higher prices here.  Not building pipelines or refineries sure as shit didn't help when the oil shock happened.  But whatever.

 

2.  Again, hypothetical

 

3.  High wages stimulate economic growth period.  YOu're lying your ass off and revising history again here.  Unions didn't kill economic growth.  Corporations who demanded lower costs of production for higher profits did.  They didn't give foreign nations an advantage.  The fact that workers could literally be forced to work for a dollar a day in sweat shops in nations with a population over 500 million was what killed it.  The demand for foreign labour only really started in the 80s under the trickle down scheme.  The graph isn't simply just there, they are an absolute mirror to each other.  To claim unions killed economic growth is so fucking far fetched it borders on the idiotic.  Simple economic fact here for ya mate.  If people make more, they spend more.  They buy cars, houses furniture food and travel.  THAT is how the GDP grew to where it is today.  Charting the graph of outsourcing labour correlates directly to the same chart showing the reduction of the middle class in the west.

 

27 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

Putting social beliefs ahead of the overall wealth of this country are literally visible in datapoints. This is will usher the fall of western civilization. The government should not have anything to do with social beliefs or behavior. A healthy society should self govern this. If everyone actually lived by these standards instead of relying on the government to do so, we’d be a utopia. 
 

the government should be run like a fucking business not a moral behavior correctional officer. There should be no feelings in policy. 

1.  Social beliefs?  LIke telling people that CRT is being taught to kids and is bad?  That SOGI is bad?  That people who believe in a different sky fairy are bad?  That men ind resses reading to kids is bad?  Then you say social beliefs what are you really saying here LaBamba?  Because the reality is both parties do it but only one party seems hell bent on bringing back the good old social beliefs that brought us great things like the reservation system.  Women at home.  Less voting rights based on orientation etc.  To claim that this will usher in the fall of western civilization is something that the people who make these claims have been saying from their dirty soapboxes for about 7 years.  It's bullshit and it's disgusting.

 

2.  Like a business huh?  You mean cutting the fat?  ensuring that only share holders matter?  You know if our nation starts getting run like a business the first individuals to fall will be the marginalized and vulnerable followed by small businesses.  Why?  because they don't generate profits and are considered sinks.  Run a government like a business and you're going to run it like an autocracy.

 

12 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

I want everyone in here that hates corporations to take 1-5% of your income and buy shares of them. Then maybe you’ll understand how a PUBLICLY traded company isn’t in charge. You are. The capital gains you receive will be taxed and put right back into the government you so dearly love. It’s a win, win. 
i honestly thought the conservatives were the conspiracy theorists. 

1.  I want everyone here who hates the government to take 1% to 5% of your money and hide it.  Then hide it some more.  Then when the government comes looking for it claim you don't have it and ask for some money to keep working.  Then use your hidden money to buy back more of your own product.  Then maybe you will understand what is really happening to productivity and production in our nation.  Companies getting massive tax subsidies while recording record profits while raising prices to absurd levels without reinvesting those stores of profits.  Everyone shits on the government for the three biggest inflationary drivers in fuel/transport.  Food and Housing.  Except, those are ALL corporate run and controlled and any intervention by the government is seen as bad.  Corporations that control the biggest inflationary drivers in our nation are making OBSCENE money and in the last 3 years the prices of their products have increased to obscene levels and it's somehow the governments fault.  That's a bigger and better grift than the church has going on.

 

 

6 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

How on earth could you possibly have proof of something that never happened without a Time Machine? Nobody can accurately predict the outcome of changed policy until it is implemented. There are too many unforeseen variables. The economy isn’t a consolidated layer that you can control like a steering wheel.

1.  I want you to read your statement here.  Like REALLY read it long and hard.  Then go back to the bolded quotes above and ignore my responses.  I want to see you actually do this and understand that your statement here points out everything wrong with your statements above.  You're making hypothetical statements based on opinions and feelings not on grounded fact.

 

Thanks for coming to my ted talk LaBamba, always a pleasure.

[NoHeart]

11 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Christ I've about had enough.   We disagree.  Do not pretend to know anything about what I have researched or have the ability to understand just because we of the fact we are not in agreement.

 

I can take any argument on.  I just hope it comes without snide comments and condescending remarks.

Inflation, how are the liberals going to flatten the curve? 

[Ricky Ravioli]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

11% is a pretty good rate of return.  You asked for an example of something that was improved financially under the Liberals and were provided one, with a source.

I'd be willing to bet those numbers are skewed due to the subsidiary's of the big three telecommunications. Nobody is paying less for a brand new iPhone then they were 5 years ago. What is cheaper is the shitty spotty service plans if you bring your own phone in or pre buy. 

[Warhippy]

26 minutes ago, DSVII said:

 

With all due respect I don't think that is a mutually exclusive. Social beliefs and wealth.

 

A country isn't a business where a metric like GDP is the end all be all measure. You can have high GDP yet only have it benefit a disproportionate 0.01% or a slightly lower GDP that can benefit 50%. I think you can agree at least the second scenario where it benefits more people will more likely contribute to a healthier society. 

 

A human being is not a profitable enterprise, I'd hate to see what a state run like that looks like. Businesses that operate on unlimited growth (an idea pioneered really in the 80s by Jack Welch) end up being extractive and exploitative. We have seen what a country run like a business looks like, look no further than the East India Company. 

 

The state exists to fulfill the social contract to its citizens, to protect them in exchange for their loyalty, taxes and service. Social beliefs play a vital role in that contract. Unless you want to go back to medieval times where the contract was as simple as putting you to the sword if you didn't pay the tax. 

 

The fall of western civilization will be ushered in the same way the Romans, Chinese, and European Empires have before. The vast concentration of wealth and power into a few corrupt individuals hoarding even more resources for themselves while distracting the masses with bread and circuses, hoarding even as the infrastructure that enabled them to do so in the first place is crumbling.

 

We've seen time and time again societies collapse because the rich cut taxes for themselves, and defund the state like parasites even as invaders are at the gates.

It's all just a little bit of history repeating

[Warhippy]

26 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

Tell me how the liberals are going to bring down inflation and I will absolutely destroy your argument. Buck the algorithms on your social media feed and educate yourself. 

Wanna know something funny.

 

It's already coming down.  Go ahead.  Destroy me daddy.  I need to be educated

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/inflation-cpi

 

[bolt]

3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

People struggling to make ends meet don't have the disposable income to do that.

So why is the Liberal Government pushing EVs when people are struggling to make ends meet or have any disposable cash.   Do you know anyone with $50K+ of disposable money?  Or is virtue signalling the goal here?

[Warhippy]

22 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

You’re a grown up, go look at their platform yourself. That’s the problem with people who rely on the government, they can’t inform themselves. 

I posted their platform a few pages back.

 

A lot of conflicting and hypocritical statements but almost ZERO actual plans that can be verified or questioned.  Jut "a Conservative government would try to or attempt to" with no actual plan.

 

it's all well and good to say we'd bring down inflation but when that's where the sentence ends that's pretty much it.

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said:

I'd be willing to bet those numbers are skewed due to the subsidiary's of the big three telecommunications. Nobody is paying less for a brand new iPhone then they were 5 years ago. What is cheaper is the shitty spotty service plans if you bring your own phone in or pre buy. 

So the actual service is cheaper then.  Can't do much about the cost of a product that is sold around the globe, and bringing your own phone is always the smarter move.

[Warhippy]

22 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

What? lol. My wireless bill has easily doubled since 2015, maybe even tripled. 

@Optimist Prime actually laid out how prices have in fact dropped over the last few years.  The man charts his expenses and is happy to share them.

 

Can or would you be willing to do the same with yours?  My prices have actually decreased somewhat as well so I'd be interested to see where and how you're paying triple since 2015

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, bolt said:

So why is the Liberal Government pushing EVs when people are struggling to make ends meet or have any disposable cash.   Do you know anyone with $50K+ of disposable money?  Or is virtue signalling the goal here?

How many people are paying cash for any type of new car?  

[Warhippy]

19 minutes ago, Sapper said:

But ...... Without the communist price control that places like China and Russia have .... Or the ghetto poverty they Mexico has ..... It's not possible 

 

To get rid of unions would collapse the country almost over night without legislated price controls .

 

I'm not in favour of legislating prices for goods services and housing.  But you can't pay China / Mexico wages and charge Canadian prices. Simple math 

Could you imagine what would happen if unions were disbanded overnight in Canada?

 

Hello 10 day 14 hour a day work weeks 

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, NoHeart said:

I guess we are going to find out here in a little less than a year when the conservatives have a majority government. I don’t see how anyone could possibly be comfortable going forward with what we have now. It makes me believe that people in places like Vancouver have just completely given up on accumulating wealth and bettering their lives on their own accord. When I was in my 20’s I had all the opportunity and resources I needed to advance in my life. Those opportunities don’t exist anymore so the social crutch is really the only thing you have to lean on. Our treasury is in shambles, our economy is almost completely based off the debt of the housing market. We need to diversify the treasury to strengthen our dollar to drive down inflation. The notion of backing our currency with crypto use to be an argument made by the left on how incompetent PP’s suggestion was. Looking back on that now, it would’ve flattened the inflation curve today, and we’d probably already be in quantitative easing. Liberal minded people should honestly stay out of everything related to economics and let the fiscally responsible conservatives take care of our currency before we completely unravel here. This is such a dire need for Canada right now that nothing else really matters. Ironically, the best option to grow Canada’s wealth right now and preserve the nations social programs is a fiscally responsible government. If we continue to borrow against our treasury, our credit rating will degrade, and the cost of borrowing will increase further. That coupled with inflation will put us into a unprecedented recession. 

 

Tbh I don't see the same world you do. Theres all kinds of great career opportunities in Vancouver, along with a great lifestyle. Yes housing is fucked at the moment but that is slowly changing.

 

Show me Skippys economic plan, I don't see it.

[Warhippy]

14 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

I’m not really sure why everyone blames their hardships on publicly traded companies. Buy shares and cheer them on. 

Food prices.  Through the roof, highest profit records ever since late 2020

Housing prices.  Highest ever, REIT stocks at some of the highest levels ever and corporate ownership at its highest levels in Canadian history

Fuel prices.  Price per barrel at a median rate but nationally prices at the pumps higher on average than they've ever been.

 

Can't udnerstand why people would blame these companies that control the highest inflationary drivers for their record prices and profits.....Must be the governments fault

[bolt]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

Tbh I don't see the same world you do. Theres all kinds of great career opportunities in Vancouver, along with a great lifestyle. Yes housing is fucked at the moment but that is slowly changing.

 

Show me Skippys economic plan, I don't see it.

You'll have to wait for the Election,  remember the Liberals did the exact same thing.  

[Warhippy]

14 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

Cool man. 11% of a $400 a month phone bill. 

You're paying $400 for a phone?

 

Thats an Ish-You not an Ish-Me.  Just like peteys' $50 car washes.

[Bob Long]

Just now, bolt said:

You'll have to wait for the Election,  remember the Liberals did the exact same thing.  

 

So why should I vote Skippy then?

[Johngould21]

36 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

Tell me how the liberals are going to bring down inflation and I will absolutely destroy your argument. Buck the algorithms on your social media feed and educate yourself. 

2.7%

[bolt]

6 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

How many people are paying cash for any type of new car?  

You don't need to upgrade your home electrical for over ten thousand dollars when you buy a conventional ICE car.

 

Are you actually saying the total cost of An ev (including the gov rebate we all pay for in our taxes) is less than a conventional car?  Including the cost of upgrading your home electrical.  

 

 

Edited May 30 by bolt

[DSVII]

1 hour ago, NoHeart said:

I’m not really sure why everyone blames their hardships on publicly traded companies. Buy shares and cheer them on. 

 

Well, there was a reason why the Gilded age is looked upon in a negative light. We're actually in the second gilded age now if you ask me.

 

Before the 1980s, probably the era post WWII to the 70s Corporations actually were a productive and valued member of society. They believed in paying taxes, being loyal to employees and building actual products that benefited the customer. When compared to today.

 

Then Jack Welch came along, and his mantra was shareholder supremacy. How do you get this? By gutting divisions that didn't hit an arbitrary growth number, by manipulating the books, doing share buy backs rather than invest in R&D to jack up the prices. Make Shareholder supremacy the number one goal before customers and employees. A few trends started by this included mass layoffs, crunch time, tax dodging by offshoring businesses to the carribean/ireland etc...All these methods have a negative effect on society and state, whether through massive unemployment numbers, and less $$ to go into maintaining the roads/harbours that these corps use to ship their products. 

 

So publically traded companies today are not the same entities they were back then. They've gotten too powerful since it became legal to bribe politicians in the US in 2010, and the government at this point is probably a victim of regulatory capture. Politicians giving Corporations disproportionate support with the promise of jobs after they leave public sector. We've seen this with the '08 crash, and we've seen this with how the pandemic money was distributed in PPP loans that had the independent audit committee stripped from it due to Republican political influence. The disproportionate power ended up killing many local small business and concentrating more power in the monopolies and oligopolies.

 

Too much corporate power will also have a material harm to the society and state. How much road/infrastructure wear and tear and emissions do Amazon trucks use a year while they dodge billions in taxes in the US, letting the taxpayer foot the bill on those roads? How many child labor laws are being pushed in the states now through corporate political interests because they need cheap labor?  How much misinformation is being spread because megacorps essentially own all the major news outlets, negative stories to drive engagement and clicks while local papers are being bought up and gutted? How many Fox News/OAN/Sinclair watchers went to Jan 6th? Just to name a few

 

Not to mention the effect these monopolies right now have on the products. The end state of the 'growth at all costs' mindset has led to the enshittification of a lot of products. Because line must always go up, so you cut corners and do all you can to drive up usage numbers, even if it makes the product more frustrating to use. Something that was simple with one click before is now two to three clicks because each click = engagement. This bleeds into everything else too.

 

Google search is now broken (first results are always ads, you have google ai queries recommending you jump off lions gate bridge for depression), Facebook is chasing engagement over customer safety, enabling features like 'people you know" despite concerns that it enables predators to connect with kids easier). This is the consequence of operating on pure business, boards will make decisions to jack up insulin medicine costs that result in deaths, more children will be victimized online, people get sick from corporations cutting costs on raw materials etc...

 

This growth and profit at all cost mindset will lead to rot that is going to also kill innovation and wealth in the end, because you can only puff up the numbers so much until a crash. And those crashes have been happening more frequently since corporations adopted that mindset.

 

In a way, you can say I'm so conservative on this, I want corporations to go back to those good ole pre-shareholder primacy days. That was the sweet spot where economic growth lined up with the average person's financial well being.

 

I do invest privately of course, but I also am mindful of the wider effects as a citizen of the country.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 30 by DSVII

[Satchmo]

7 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

Inflation, how are the liberals going to flatten the curve? 

You recently mentioned cherry picking in an unfavorable way.   I think you've been cherry picking which of my posts to reply to.

 

But anyway,  Inflation.   The libs (and the NDP) introduced grocery rebates, Canada Workers Benefit, Canada Dental Benefit, Child Benefit, and right-to-repair.    Contrary to common belief they have also reigned in spending.

 

Will it be enough?  Likely not.   Inflation is a global concern and no one is really succeeding anywhere.

 

Now tell me how the Cons will do better and at what cost.