Canadian Politics Thread

[Ricky Ravioli]

14 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

So the actual service is cheaper then.  Can't do much about the cost of a product that is sold around the globe, and bringing your own phone is always the smarter move.

Telus, bell, and Rogers service plans aren't any cheaper than they were before. The subsidiary's are what is cheaper. Therefore skewing numbers giving the illusion plans are cheaper when Infact they are basically the same as ever

[Ricky Ravioli]

9 minutes ago, bolt said:

You don't need to upgrade your home electrical for over ten thousand dollars when you buy a conventional ICE car.

 

Are you actually saying the total cost of An ev (including the gov rebate we all pay for in our taxes) is less than a conventional car?  Including the cost of upgrading your home electrical.  

 

 

Not to mention if you don't own a home. Where do you charge your vehicle?

[Bure_Pavel]

27 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

People struggling to make ends meet don't have the disposable income to do that.

And who fault is it that they cant make ends meat, the person or the economy?

[Satchmo]

Just now, Bure_Pavel said:

And who fault is it that they cant make ends meat, the person or the economy?

Quite often it's a little of both.  How much of one or the other depends on one or the other.

[MattJVD]

Just now, Ricky Ravioli said:

Not to mention if you don't own a home. Where do you charge your vehicle?

Granted this will not work for everyone, but it works for some: I can't charge at home, my townhouse complex has a parking lot without electical outlets. I just charge at work, sometimes visit the superchargers at gas stations (they are really fast on newer EVs). I've probably spent about $100 on chargin since Nov 1st, with 7000 km on the car.

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said:

Telus, bell, and Rogers service plans aren't any cheaper than they were before. The subsidiary's are what is cheaper. Therefore skewing numbers giving the illusion plans are cheaper when Infact they are basically the same as ever

On Telus, consistently paying less every time I renew for more data.  Retentions plans are good.

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

And who fault is it that they cant make ends meat, the person or the economy?

It depends on the individual, but I'm a big fan of personal responsibility for ones own finances.

[Ricky Ravioli]

Just now, King Heffy said:

On Telus, consistently paying less every time I renew for more data.  Retentions plans are good.

The average consumer isn't going through that effort to save a few bucks

[Ricky Ravioli]

3 minutes ago, MattJVD said:

Granted this will not work for everyone, but it works for some: I can't charge at home, my townhouse complex has a parking lot without electical outlets. I just charge at work, sometimes visit the superchargers at gas stations (they are really fast on newer EVs). I've probably spent about $100 on chargin since Nov 1st, with 7000 km on the car.

The majority of the public are not going to have the option to charge at work

[bolt]

17 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

So why should I vote Skippy then?

1. Letting the middle class thrive without absorbent tax and unneeded regulation.  

2. The Liberals expiry date is well past due.  They have been proven failures 

[Satchmo]

Just now, Ricky Ravioli said:

The majority of the public are not going to have the option to charge at work

How can you say that for sure?  

[bolt]

Just now, Ricky Ravioli said:

The majority of the public are not going to have the option to charge at work

And the grid can't sustain it.  But virtue signalling to those who think it can is more important to them.

[RupertKBD]

1 hour ago, Satchmo said:

Need we bring people's professions into this?  

 

Apparently....

 

Only the opinions of the "Dinner Party" crowd are valid....

[King Heffy]

Just now, Ricky Ravioli said:

The average consumer isn't going through that effort to save a few bucks

Then they also shouldn't be bitching and complaining about the price when they're not helping themselves.  Over a 2 year contract, the savings for about a half hour phone call are significant.

 

Personal responsibility.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, NoHeart said:

I guess we are going to find out here in a little less than a year when the conservatives have a majority government. I don’t see how anyone could possibly be comfortable going forward with what we have now. It makes me believe that people in places like Vancouver have just completely given up on accumulating wealth and bettering their lives on their own accord. When I was in my 20’s I had all the opportunity and resources I needed to advance in my life. Those opportunities don’t exist anymore so the social crutch is really the only thing you have to lean on. Our treasury is in shambles, our economy is almost completely based off the debt of the housing market. We need to diversify the treasury to strengthen our dollar to drive down inflation. The notion of backing our currency with crypto use to be an argument made by the left on how incompetent PP’s suggestion was. Looking back on that now, it would’ve flattened the inflation curve today, and we’d probably already be in quantitative easing. Liberal minded people should honestly stay out of everything related to economics and let the fiscally responsible conservatives take care of our currency before we completely unravel here. This is such a dire need for Canada right now that nothing else really matters. Ironically, the best option to grow Canada’s wealth right now and preserve the nations social programs is a fiscally responsible government. If we continue to borrow against our treasury, our credit rating will degrade, and the cost of borrowing will increase further. That coupled with inflation will put us into a unprecedented recession. 

 

There are people in this thread who argued with me that we are better off today that in the 1990's.  Yes, it's true, go back and read the thread.  It was laughable then and I'm still laughing now...

[RupertKBD]

1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Unions are the opposite of what this country needs, this country needs to address productivity and affordability. The more unions there are the more prices would need to increase to pay union workers wages and again the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. 

 

You've got that backwards. Without unions, the companies would pay garbage wages and the executives and shareholders would pocket the difference.

[Bure_Pavel]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

It depends on the individual, but I'm a big fan of personal responsibility for ones own finances.

As long as you dont drive a vehicle, travel, consume alcohol, or eat food/need a roof overhead you should have lots of disposable income. Canadians dont really like those things anyways.    

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, bolt said:

And the grid can't sustain it.  But virtue signalling to those who think it can is more important to them.

But I hear the cons are going to build a bunch of hydro electric plants.

 

BTW - That post reeks of virtue signaling to those who don't think it's important.

[Johngould21]

10 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said:

Telus, bell, and Rogers service plans aren't any cheaper than they were before. The subsidiary's are what is cheaper. Therefore skewing numbers giving the illusion plans are cheaper when Infact they are basically the same as ever

I know people that pay close to $200 per month, I pay $130 for basically the same services. It's Telus, Shaw and Rogers customer service that I have an issue with. There isn't any customer service. They wanted me to pay $175 for a service call for the issues I had. I said f'that, I'm going to Shaw. No, no don't do that, how about if we compensate you for $250 instead. This, after spending close to 2 weeks without having our issue dealt with properly, and countless hours on the phone on hold or waiting for callbacks.

[NoHeart]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Gonna try to tackle this revisionist history and false dichotomy one at a time here by answering sections in bolded and numbered

 

1.  When you were in your 20s.  So do me a favour.  Show me when the last time a government got in to power and made everything cheaper happened in Canada or anywhere.  Newsflash, things don't get cheaper.  That's not how our system of economics work.  Trying to fool people by claiming otherwise only works on the ill educated

 

2.  OK.  Wanna know how investments work.  People bet on things to do X or Y to make themselves richer.  Wanna see certain entities get serious about crypto?  Take one of the largest economies in the G 20 and back their currency by crypto and watch the shit storm commence.  People would literally be shorting our dollar and idiots on reddit would be controlling our economic fate.  The thing about a nations currency having value is that it is backed by aspects of that nation from resources to manufacturing to control over both.  Crypto gives control of none of that as it is literally a made up thing like mario coin.  You're creating a false future and suggesting something magical would happen without thinking of the reality of it.  Because as easily as bitcoin rose, it could have absolutely tanked to $10k per coin and what would have happened to our economy or purchasing power if our "loonie" lost 2/3s of its value overnight?  

 

3.  Liberal minded people?  Just to clarify in the past 45 years "liberal minded people" have grown the economy in ways that Conservatives never have while preserving social programs.  Fiscally responsible conservatives?  Just a heads up, of the last 2 Conservative governments under Harper and MUlroney they collectively raised the debt by over $400 billion themselves and Mulroney did it under 20% + interest ratings while Harper, whom Pierre was a seriously visible and important figure under, did it with essentially nil interest ratings and a record high petro dollar.  But both had to sell massive amounts of sovereign wealth and crown corps to maintain a semblance of fiscal responsibility towards their final years in office.

 

4.  Cons cut programs period.  This is inarguable.  Going back almost 60 years every single Conservative government (barring 2 years of one) have cut social programs to balance debt or decrease spending.  Don't @ me with that bullshit because numbers don't lie

 

1.  This is not a factual statement.  it is one that you have created as nobody can guess or tell what will happen in the future.  The cons could win but the dollar could tank.  The Libs could hang on and the dollar could rise.  Nobody can tell much like your crypto statement.  It holds no actual truth as it is a hypothetical

 

 

1.  Prior to 2015 what?  We're not the Saudis or Venezuela.  While at times due to the massive increase in oil prices our dollar has ben viewed as tied to petro currency it has NEVER been a petro dollar.  Prior to 2015 oil was at all time highs.  In late 2014 oil tanked.  Hard.  It stayed low for almost 4 years.  This coupled with the snit fit of companies pissed off that an NDP government was in Alberta and was demanding a shade more money on the royalty end of things caused companies to pause production and they moved towards the booming shale beds in the Bakkans (NE USA) and the newly found steam injection runs in the Permian basin in the texas and Oklahoma regions.  You can recreate history all you want but that doesn't make it true any more than removing a statue erases historical fact.

 

2.  We replaced it with nothing?  Ok.  Sure.  No new refineries or pipelines have been built since then right?  With a minority government here and an NDP government in Alberta nothing new happened right?  Think about that long and hard.

 

3.  Our artificially floated GDP has been buoyed by the housing market for longer than a decade.  Your statement doesn't change the fact that Vancouver and Toronto areas have been world leaders in the top 20 for almost 16 years for housing costs.  At the old CDC site there was an ongoing thread created around 2011 where people were losing their minds at the price of and lack of housing.  To claim this is relatively new is bullshit.

 

4.  Flat.  Out.  Dictatorship.  OK.  I won't even bother with this one but boy do I have some questions for you.

 

 

1.  We can't?  So with his almost decade long run in office with a majority and an oil friendly government in Alberta and Sask the lack of any new refineries or pipelines built in that near decade didn't have any bad effects today?  Amazing.  See the amusing thing is legislation at the federal level takes 14-18 months on average to start affecting the general economy.  So anyone taking office tomorrow will have  a year + of past legislation that will buoy or sink them.  That's how the system works.  Nothing happens overnight, but you sure as shit could see that selling the wheat board lead to higher prices here.  Selling the rail system that our grain was shipped on sure as shit lead to higher prices here.  Not building pipelines or refineries sure as shit didn't help when the oil shock happened.  But whatever.

 

2.  Again, hypothetical

 

3.  High wages stimulate economic growth period.  YOu're lying your ass off and revising history again here.  Unions didn't kill economic growth.  Corporations who demanded lower costs of production for higher profits did.  They didn't give foreign nations an advantage.  The fact that workers could literally be forced to work for a dollar a day in sweat shops in nations with a population over 500 million was what killed it.  The demand for foreign labour only really started in the 80s under the trickle down scheme.  The graph isn't simply just there, they are an absolute mirror to each other.  To claim unions killed economic growth is so fucking far fetched it borders on the idiotic.  Simple economic fact here for ya mate.  If people make more, they spend more.  They buy cars, houses furniture food and travel.  THAT is how the GDP grew to where it is today.  Charting the graph of outsourcing labour correlates directly to the same chart showing the reduction of the middle class in the west.

 

1.  Social beliefs?  LIke telling people that CRT is being taught to kids and is bad?  That SOGI is bad?  That people who believe in a different sky fairy are bad?  That men ind resses reading to kids is bad?  Then you say social beliefs what are you really saying here LaBamba?  Because the reality is both parties do it but only one party seems hell bent on bringing back the good old social beliefs that brought us great things like the reservation system.  Women at home.  Less voting rights based on orientation etc.  To claim that this will usher in the fall of western civilization is something that the people who make these claims have been saying from their dirty soapboxes for about 7 years.  It's bullshit and it's disgusting.

 

2.  Like a business huh?  You mean cutting the fat?  ensuring that only share holders matter?  You know if our nation starts getting run like a business the first individuals to fall will be the marginalized and vulnerable followed by small businesses.  Why?  because they don't generate profits and are considered sinks.  Run a government like a business and you're going to run it like an autocracy.

 

1.  I want everyone here who hates the government to take 1% to 5% of your money and hide it.  Then hide it some more.  Then when the government comes looking for it claim you don't have it and ask for some money to keep working.  Then use your hidden money to buy back more of your own product.  Then maybe you will understand what is really happening to productivity and production in our nation.  Companies getting massive tax subsidies while recording record profits while raising prices to absurd levels without reinvesting those stores of profits.  Everyone shits on the government for the three biggest inflationary drivers in fuel/transport.  Food and Housing.  Except, those are ALL corporate run and controlled and any intervention by the government is seen as bad.  Corporations that control the biggest inflationary drivers in our nation are making OBSCENE money and in the last 3 years the prices of their products have increased to obscene levels and it's somehow the governments fault.  That's a bigger and better grift than the church has going on.

 

 

1.  I want you to read your statement here.  Like REALLY read it long and hard.  Then go back to the bolded quotes above and ignore my responses.  I want to see you actually do this and understand that your statement here points out everything wrong with your statements above.  You're making hypothetical statements based on opinions and feelings not on grounded fact.

 

Thanks for coming to my ted talk LaBamba, always a pleasure.

I am at work and don’t have the time to reply to all of this but me and you have been having this same argument for like 10 years. 
 

I’m not and neither did the conservatives imply directly backing our dollar with bitcoin. Diversification, not replacement. You’re over dramatic on this. The treasury needs something for a backbone. Crypto is only going to grow. It should 100% be part of the treasury. 
 

This is the first generation that’s come out of high school or college without any hopes of owning property. That is what I was referring to. You can go back 16 years all you want but there has been plenty of time correct anything the conservatives had a hand in when it comes to the housing market. 

the Harper government was in a completely different landscape. Currency was indirectly backed by oil making it abnormally strong which brings in an entirely different set of headwinds. A powerful currency is a competitive disadvantage in the global market, especially after decades of a depressed dollar. Also had the global recession that we were insulated against due to energy and commodity based trade. Canada greatly benefited from the global government stimulus because we were a resource based economy. 
 

Don’t even bring up how we actually had to buy a fucking pipeline from kinder Morgan. If I was backing the liberals I wouldn’t even bring that up. I don’t even know where to start.
 

The growth of resources the last 10 years vs what it could have been with the conservatives and a depressed currency advantage is all theory. Put with our business friendly policy I’m pretty sure it would’ve been substantially more growth which is why money will flow back into Canada on sentiment alone when the conservatives win a majority. 
 

Then I see a lot of rhetoric about social policy and corporate welfare but the liberals have been In Power for 9 years bud. I’m not really sure what you’re mad about. This is your vision. 
 

I’ve gone into extreme detail about the differences in today’s economy and Harper’s. They both have their challenges and advantages. 

If you’re satisfied with how the country is right now then by all means, vote for your boy to stay in power. 
 

When all the dust settles, we are going to have a majority conservative government. The polls show a 99% likelihood of that. I only see a further downfall for the liberal government due to the higher interests rates continuing their pressure on the housing market that our hollow GDP is based on. 

[Bure_Pavel]

24 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

So why should I vote Skippy then?

If anything to smarten up the liberals into bringing forth a better candidate next election. A different perspective/government turnover is often a good thing, as some get too comfortable.  

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

As long as you dont drive a vehicle, travel, consume alcohol, or eat food/need a roof overhead you should have lots of disposable income. Canadians dont really like those things anyways.    

Only the bolded is an actual necessity for all, with the vehicle a possibility depending on where you live and work.  If one can't make ends meet and is still traveling and spending on alcohol, then I'd definitely say that's self inflicted.

[RupertKBD]

45 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

I’m not really sure why everyone blames their hardships on publicly traded companies. Buy shares and cheer them on. 

 

That's ridiculous....we all know that everyone's hardships are Justin Trudeau's fault....

[Satchmo]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

There are people in this thread who argued with me that we are better off today that in the 1990's.  Yes, it's true, go back and read the thread.  It was laughable then and I'm still laughing now...

I don't remember that argument.   I remember many arguments, like the one going on today, on how best to to improve matters and who is more capable of doing so.

[NoHeart]

35 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Wanna know something funny.

 

It's already coming down.  Go ahead.  Destroy me daddy.  I need to be educated

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/inflation-cpi

 

Is that recessionary deflation? Also directly correlates with the price of oil