Canadian Politics Thread

[Satchmo]

 

5 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said:

Banning sales by 2035 of ice vehicles 

Good for us.  They won't all be EV's and I bet my Prius is still running by then.  (even if I'm not) 

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, bolt said:

Yet you don't think it's stupid to finance an EV and electrical services.  They can buy a used ICE vehicles that work fine and are already relatively low in emissions.  

 

I think it's pretty dumb to finance a vehicle in general, but given the assumption these people were going to finance anyway, the EV is the better choice.

Edited May 30 by King Heffy

[Ricky Ravioli]

7 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Should people also pay sticker price for cars?

I'm not seeing how that's relevant to the current conversation.

[Rip The Mesh]

I have a 69 Camaro in the garage, had it for many years. Have a Dodge Pick-up that I use 3 or 4 times a week. We have another car for daily use;

I'm proud to say, they all use good -ole Chevron 94 octain gasoline. Piss on it there's still millions of tons of fossil fuel available..

 

Did you know why there are soooo many accidents in big parking lots or covered ones? Because no one can hear an electric POS.

[RupertKBD]

28 minutes ago, bolt said:

We all know nothing is Trudeau's fault according to you.

 

Source?

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, Ricky Ravioli said:

I'm not seeing how that's relevant to the current conversation.

The concept of negotiating to get a better deal.  In both cases, those who pay sticker price are leaving money on the table.  Both negotiations are relatively short and result in far more savings than most would earn over the same time frame working.  I'm a fan of doing what one can to better one's situation before asking for help, but apparently that's an ignorant view in your opinion.

[Ricky Ravioli]

Just now, King Heffy said:

The concept of negotiating to get a better deal.  In both cases, those who pay sticker price are leaving money on the table.  Both negotiations are relatively short and result in far more savings than most would earn over the same time frame working.  I'm a fan of doing what one can to better one's situation before asking for help, but apparently that's an ignorant view in your opinion.

Except a lot of people are paying OVER mrsp on vehicles because of COVID and the lack of availability. So not a whole lot of room for much negotiation 

[RupertKBD]

23 minutes ago, bolt said:

Yet you don't think it's stupid to finance an EV and electrical services.  They can buy a used ICE vehicle that works fine and are already relatively low in emissions. 

 

Nobody is stopping them:

 

Quote

Gasoline and diesel-fueled vehicles can still be driven after 2035 and can be bought or sold as used vehicles. However, manufacturers have made it clear that the transition to electric vehicles is now firmly underway. Many have set their own EV sales targets that align closely with the federal targets

 

[Satchmo]

3 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

I have a 69 Camaro in the garage, had it for many years. Have a Dodge Pick-up that I use 3 or 4 times a week. We have another car for daily use;

I'm proud to say, they all use good -ole Chevron 94 octain gasoline. Piss on it there's still millions of tons of fossil fuel available..

 

Did you know why there are soooo many accidents in big parking lots or covered ones? Because no one can hear an electric POS.

We're going to add noise to them, just like we add rotten egg smell to gas.  

 

I've got a 75 Buick convertible in my garage.  It's cool but you may have me beat.   We also have his and her Priuses in the driveway.   Man, I love saving money on gas.  Don't like pissing on the planet though.  My kids will be living on it for a long time.

[RupertKBD]

7 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

We're going to add noise to them, just like we add rotten egg smell to gas.  

 

I've got a 75 Buick convertible in my garage.  It's cool but you may have me beat.   We also have his and her Priuses in the driveway.   Man, I love saving money on gas.  Don't like pissing on the planet though.  My kids will be living on it for a long time.

 

Same. At 63, there's a good chance that I won't be around to see when the Climate Change shit really hits the fan, but my three girls will....

 

TBH, I find it a bit repulsive that so many people have this attitude of, "Who gives a fuck about future generations? I want mine and I want it now!"

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

31 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

I have a 69 Camaro in the garage, had it for many years. Have a Dodge Pick-up that I use 3 or 4 times a week. We have another car for daily use;

I'm proud to say, they all use good -ole Chevron 94 octain gasoline. Piss on it there's still millions of tons of fossil fuel available..

 

Did you know why there are soooo many accidents in big parking lots or covered ones? Because no one can hear an electric POS.

With the exception of the camaro you are most likely pissing your money away. Unless it's a high compression engine there is no reason to use anything but regular gas. In fact, high octane fuel has less energy than its regular counterpart so its less efficient too. 

Edited May 30 by JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

[MattJVD]

1 hour ago, bolt said:

What happens if more than 2% of the population owns an EV?  Who pays for your charging at work and does everyone have the ability to do that?  Would your workplace be able to manage if every employee  owned an EV?

 

What is the normal fee for charging your car fully at a supercharging gas station?

Yes, that's why I said in my post that this can work for some, but not everyone. It's considered a 'perk' and I would imagine as EV adoption increases it would even be considered part of your benefits package. (especially if it is only available to employees, then it is technically a taxable benefit). Gas station charging rates are around 15-20 cents per KwH. Total battery size in 77.2 KwHs so a 0-100% charge is in the neighborhood of $11.50 to $15.50. That give me (on average) ~500km of driving.

[NoHeart]

If every car in Canada became EV the loss in emissions wouldn’t even offset the annual growth from the emerging 3rd world. Without even considering the added emissions from a bigger power grid. 

[Bure_Pavel]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Gonna try to tackle this revisionist history and false dichotomy one at a time here by answering sections in bolded and numbered

 

1.  When you were in your 20s.  So do me a favour.  Show me when the last time a government got in to power and made everything cheaper happened in Canada or anywhere.  Newsflash, things don't get cheaper.  That's not how our system of economics work.  Trying to fool people by claiming otherwise only works on the ill educated

 

2.  OK.  Wanna know how investments work.  People bet on things to do X or Y to make themselves richer.  Wanna see certain entities get serious about crypto?  Take one of the largest economies in the G 20 and back their currency by crypto and watch the shit storm commence.  People would literally be shorting our dollar and idiots on reddit would be controlling our economic fate.  The thing about a nations currency having value is that it is backed by aspects of that nation from resources to manufacturing to control over both.  Crypto gives control of none of that as it is literally a made up thing like mario coin.  You're creating a false future and suggesting something magical would happen without thinking of the reality of it.  Because as easily as bitcoin rose, it could have absolutely tanked to $10k per coin and what would have happened to our economy or purchasing power if our "loonie" lost 2/3s of its value overnight?  

 

3.  Liberal minded people?  Just to clarify in the past 45 years "liberal minded people" have grown the economy in ways that Conservatives never have while preserving social programs.  Fiscally responsible conservatives?  Just a heads up, of the last 2 Conservative governments under Harper and MUlroney they collectively raised the debt by over $400 billion themselves and Mulroney did it under 20% + interest ratings while Harper, whom Pierre was a seriously visible and important figure under, did it with essentially nil interest ratings and a record high petro dollar.  But both had to sell massive amounts of sovereign wealth and crown corps to maintain a semblance of fiscal responsibility towards their final years in office.

 

4.  Cons cut programs period.  This is inarguable.  Going back almost 60 years every single Conservative government (barring 2 years of one) have cut social programs to balance debt or decrease spending.  Don't @ me with that bullshit because numbers don't lie

 

1.  This is not a factual statement.  it is one that you have created as nobody can guess or tell what will happen in the future.  The cons could win but the dollar could tank.  The Libs could hang on and the dollar could rise.  Nobody can tell much like your crypto statement.  It holds no actual truth as it is a hypothetical

 

 

1.  Prior to 2015 what?  We're not the Saudis or Venezuela.  While at times due to the massive increase in oil prices our dollar has ben viewed as tied to petro currency it has NEVER been a petro dollar.  Prior to 2015 oil was at all time highs.  In late 2014 oil tanked.  Hard.  It stayed low for almost 4 years.  This coupled with the snit fit of companies pissed off that an NDP government was in Alberta and was demanding a shade more money on the royalty end of things caused companies to pause production and they moved towards the booming shale beds in the Bakkans (NE USA) and the newly found steam injection runs in the Permian basin in the texas and Oklahoma regions.  You can recreate history all you want but that doesn't make it true any more than removing a statue erases historical fact.

 

2.  We replaced it with nothing?  Ok.  Sure.  No new refineries or pipelines have been built since then right?  With a minority government here and an NDP government in Alberta nothing new happened right?  Think about that long and hard.

 

3.  Our artificially floated GDP has been buoyed by the housing market for longer than a decade.  Your statement doesn't change the fact that Vancouver and Toronto areas have been world leaders in the top 20 for almost 16 years for housing costs.  At the old CDC site there was an ongoing thread created around 2011 where people were losing their minds at the price of and lack of housing.  To claim this is relatively new is bullshit.

 

4.  Flat.  Out.  Dictatorship.  OK.  I won't even bother with this one but boy do I have some questions for you.

 

 

1.  We can't?  So with his almost decade long run in office with a majority and an oil friendly government in Alberta and Sask the lack of any new refineries or pipelines built in that near decade didn't have any bad effects today?  Amazing.  See the amusing thing is legislation at the federal level takes 14-18 months on average to start affecting the general economy.  So anyone taking office tomorrow will have  a year + of past legislation that will buoy or sink them.  That's how the system works.  Nothing happens overnight, but you sure as shit could see that selling the wheat board lead to higher prices here.  Selling the rail system that our grain was shipped on sure as shit lead to higher prices here.  Not building pipelines or refineries sure as shit didn't help when the oil shock happened.  But whatever.

 

2.  Again, hypothetical

 

3.  High wages stimulate economic growth period.  YOu're lying your ass off and revising history again here.  Unions didn't kill economic growth.  Corporations who demanded lower costs of production for higher profits did.  They didn't give foreign nations an advantage.  The fact that workers could literally be forced to work for a dollar a day in sweat shops in nations with a population over 500 million was what killed it.  The demand for foreign labour only really started in the 80s under the trickle down scheme.  The graph isn't simply just there, they are an absolute mirror to each other.  To claim unions killed economic growth is so fucking far fetched it borders on the idiotic.  Simple economic fact here for ya mate.  If people make more, they spend more.  They buy cars, houses furniture food and travel.  THAT is how the GDP grew to where it is today.  Charting the graph of outsourcing labour correlates directly to the same chart showing the reduction of the middle class in the west.

 

1.  Social beliefs?  LIke telling people that CRT is being taught to kids and is bad?  That SOGI is bad?  That people who believe in a different sky fairy are bad?  That men ind resses reading to kids is bad?  Then you say social beliefs what are you really saying here LaBamba?  Because the reality is both parties do it but only one party seems hell bent on bringing back the good old social beliefs that brought us great things like the reservation system.  Women at home.  Less voting rights based on orientation etc.  To claim that this will usher in the fall of western civilization is something that the people who make these claims have been saying from their dirty soapboxes for about 7 years.  It's bullshit and it's disgusting.

 

2.  Like a business huh?  You mean cutting the fat?  ensuring that only share holders matter?  You know if our nation starts getting run like a business the first individuals to fall will be the marginalized and vulnerable followed by small businesses.  Why?  because they don't generate profits and are considered sinks.  Run a government like a business and you're going to run it like an autocracy.

 

1.  I want everyone here who hates the government to take 1% to 5% of your money and hide it.  Then hide it some more.  Then when the government comes looking for it claim you don't have it and ask for some money to keep working.  Then use your hidden money to buy back more of your own product.  Then maybe you will understand what is really happening to productivity and production in our nation.  Companies getting massive tax subsidies while recording record profits while raising prices to absurd levels without reinvesting those stores of profits.  Everyone shits on the government for the three biggest inflationary drivers in fuel/transport.  Food and Housing.  Except, those are ALL corporate run and controlled and any intervention by the government is seen as bad.  Corporations that control the biggest inflationary drivers in our nation are making OBSCENE money and in the last 3 years the prices of their products have increased to obscene levels and it's somehow the governments fault.  That's a bigger and better grift than the church has going on.

 

 

1.  I want you to read your statement here.  Like REALLY read it long and hard.  Then go back to the bolded quotes above and ignore my responses.  I want to see you actually do this and understand that your statement here points out everything wrong with your statements above.  You're making hypothetical statements based on opinions and feelings not on grounded fact.

 

Thanks for coming to my ted talk LaBamba, always a pleasure.

 

Going into debt is fine if you are investing heavily in infrastructure, but to go this far into debt and nothing to show for it is not good for our nation. All while raise taxes at the same time.

Edited May 30 by Bure_Pavel

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

If every car in Canada became EV the loss in emissions wouldn’t even offset the annual growth from the emerging 3rd world. Without even considering the added emissions from a bigger power grid. 

The mentality of just because my house is burning, it isn't burning as bad as someone else's is an interesting argument 

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

And?  We all know what happened with covid.  Take away 2020-2021 and the first quarter of 2022 and chart it back to what was the consistent budget from 2015-2019 and that will be a shade more honest.

 

I'll also remind you that every dollar spent through covid was done with ALL PARTY consent.  Meaning everyone agreed on it which makes the whining about covid spending by the federal opposition sound like victim noises

[Bure_Pavel]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

And?  We all know what happened with covid.  Take away 2020-2021 and the first quarter of 2022 and chart it back to what was the consistent budget from 2015-2019 and that will be a shade more honest.

 

I'll also remind you that every dollar spent through covid was done with ALL PARTY consent.  Meaning everyone agreed on it which makes the whining about covid spending by the federal opposition sound like victim noises

Harper had the 2008 housing crisis, these are just excuses for poor financial planning.  

[Ricky Ravioli]

CBC executives, managers were paid almost $15M in bonuses: Report

Report seems to contradict testimony of broadcaster's president/CEO at Commons committee

 

https://torontosun.com/news/national/cbc-executives-managers-were-paid-almost-15m-in-bonuses-report

 

Surprise surprise...

[Satchmo]

2 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Harper had the 2008 housing crisis, these are just excuses for poor financial planning.  

That crises was bad because America suffered so much.  When they suffer, we suffer.  We did not have it anywhere near as bad here due to the structure of our banks.

[NoHeart]

9 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

The mentality of just because my house is burning, it isn't burning as bad as someone else's is an interesting argument 

EV transition needs to happen organically. Not only because the infrastructure isn’t even available to accommodate it but because the technology needs to evolve. This generation of EV’s could not replace gasoline engines. Another thing the government needs to stay out of. 

[Bure_Pavel]

7 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

That crises was bad because America suffered so much.  When they suffer, we suffer.  We did not have it anywhere near as bad here due to the structure of our banks.

Yeah it was very bad for the States and reshaped the whole mortgage lending system down there, it crumpled us pretty bad as well by association including the TSX and our real estate market. 

[Satchmo]

2 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

EV transition needs to happen organically. Not only because the infrastructure isn’t even available to accommodate it but because the technology needs to evolve. This generation of EV’s could not replace gasoline engines. Another thing the government needs to stay out of. 

Just look deeply into the future and tell us what will work.....   

 

A few pages back people were saying the cons would solve climate change through technological advances (no details given).  The Industrial Revolution brought us here; the Technological Revolution will repair it all.   But no government should have a hand in it?  We can just leave things up to Elon Musk et al?

[NoHeart]

1 minute ago, Satchmo said:

That crises was bad because America suffered so much.  When they suffer, we suffer.  We did not have it anywhere near as bad here due to the structure of our banks.

It was global and we thrived because the entire world pumped stimulus into infrastructure and cut interest rates to zero. Commodity based economies like Canada, Mexico, Russia and China provided the materials and energy to emerge from that. That is what happens when a government sets the backdrop to capitalize on a generational opportunity. Now we have poor relations with the biggest emerging economy (india) and the second largest economy in the world (China). 

[Bure_Pavel]

8 minutes ago, NoHeart said:

EV transition needs to happen organically. Not only because the infrastructure isn’t even available to accommodate it but because the technology needs to evolve. This generation of EV’s could not replace gasoline engines. Another thing the government needs to stay out of. 

Organically the EV movement is doing quite well, I see so many Telsa's on the road these days and even a lot of the new big trucks are hybrid and surprisingly fuel efficient. Im not against a government rebate for the switch to EV, as it helps with setup costs for charging capabilities.    

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Yeah it was very bad for the States and reshaped the whole mortgage lending system down there, it crumpled us pretty bad as well by association including the TSX and our real estate market. 

We could weather it though.  My company was not selling much software at the time so our CEO wisely decided just to focus on greatly enhancing our products.   When it all ended we were selling it like hot cakes.