Optimist Prime Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 2 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: Well if you were a sport shooter and they "freeze" handgun sales it would affect you but I guess it doesn't so who cares right hand guns resulted in over 620 homicides in a five year period, I think that every single hand gun in Canada that is not used in the Canadian Armed Forces or official Policing activities should be confiscated, but I am reasonable, I am okay with a freeze and phase out, like Cigarettes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 33 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: When is the last time a kid has died from an improperly stored legal handgun in Canada? I honestly don't know I've never heard of it. Do you know how many ar-15s have been used in killings in Canada? I do know the answer to that one it's ZERO. But quick better ban them for some votes https://globalnews.ca/news/3391222/rcmp-investigate-death-of-child-in-garden-hill-first-nation-man/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 minute ago, King Heffy said: https://globalnews.ca/news/3391222/rcmp-investigate-death-of-child-in-garden-hill-first-nation-man/ Can you point out in that article where it said the dad had firearms license? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 2 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: So you agree with banning guns purely on looks? I feel safer already Don't take my lame jokes too seriously. And no, I do not advocate banning guns on how they look. Just on what they do. I do think that some people are just hung up on the perceived coolness of these weapons. Just look for poser photos on X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Just now, Spring Salmon said: Can you point out in that article where it said the dad had firearms license? Reasonable assumption given that he wasn't charged with having an unlicensed firearm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 minute ago, Spring Salmon said: Canada already had some of the strictest gun laws in the world. There was no reason to change any of them. Purely for votes 1073 homicides using firearms in Canada in a five year period is "no reason to change any gun laws"? I mean, I studied Criminology, spent a career in the Armed Forces, worked for the CSE. Seems to me that firearms restrictions could always use a bit of tweaking to keep up to the technology of the times. But what do i know. Nothing. I wouldn't listen to me when there are rational well informed gun fanatics to listen to. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 5 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: Canada already had some of the strictest gun laws in the world. There was no reason to change any of them. Purely for votes So if the citizens want more strict gun laws (especially like the one currently restricting hand guns) our elected officials shouldn’t represent what the citizens want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: Canada already had some of the strictest gun laws in the world. There was no reason to change any of them. Purely for votes That's twice you said something like that. I don't think it makes much sense. It can so easily be turned around. Edited June 2 by Satchmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 3 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Reasonable assumption given that he wasn't charged with having an unlicensed firearm. It was on a reserve so I'm not really sure the laws there. However that was also not a handgun either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 4 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: 1073 homicides using firearms in Canada in a five year period is "no reason to change any gun laws"? I mean, I studied Criminology, spent a career in the Armed Forces, worked for the CSE. Seems to me that firearms restrictions could always use a bit of tweaking to keep up to the technology of the times. But what do i know. Nothing. I wouldn't listen to me when there are rational well informed gun fanatics to listen to. People are shooting people with illegal guns. I'm not arguing with you about that. What do those stats have to do with licensed gun owners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 hour ago, Spring Salmon said: You do realize legal gun owners are not the ones going around shooting people on the streets right? Stats show they commit less crime than ordinary citizens. Therefore reversing Trudeau's gun laws would have absolutely no effect on public safety. It would however save taxpayers over a billion dollars with "buybacks". But he doesn't think about the cost when there's votes to gain from under informed Canadians on gun laws Handguns in Canada - The Data - Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights Since 2003, Canada has kept accurate counts of the number of registered firearms, and handguns are all in the restricted and prohibited category. As well since 2003, the number of restricted and prohibited firearms has doubled from 572,325 to 1,165,114 firearms, while the rate of homicide by handgun has remained relatively constant (Figure 1). Statistical regression analysis reveals no associated increased in handgun homicide with the increase in the number of registered restricted and prohibited firearms (Table 1). Nor is there an increase in overall firearms homicide (Table 2). This is important because with such an increase, if prevalence of handguns was associated with an increase in homicide, one would expect homicide rates to also increase. This suggests that legally owned firearms are not linked with homicide rates. Arguments for placing strict controls on handguns appear to be related to prevalence reduction in the hope that if handguns are difficult to obtain there will be an associated reduction in homicide. However, this argument may mistakenly view all handguns as the same item, whereas legally owned handguns and handguns on the black market may have much different risk of associated harm. In fact, in Ontario, Canada, where handguns are very difficult to legally acquire, it appears that 85% of handguns involved in criminal activity were not obtained legally in Canada but rather from outside the country and most often from the United States. Hence, controlling domestically legally owned handguns may in fact result in no additional or measurable benefit. In addition, licensed firearms owners in Canada are half as likely to commit homicide with a firearm than an average Canadian. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Just now, Spring Salmon said: It was on a reserve so I'm not really sure the laws there. However that was also not a handgun either You keep lobbing the ball back over the net but not getting any aces. Your opinion is as valid as anyone's but how about some hard stats to back up your points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Have a good day folks, interesting debates this morning. I do miss firing the Carl G and the 50 cal, heck even the c-6 using a 'hasty tripod' of my buddy bent over with his hands on his knees was a hoot in some ways, but I don't buy that every tom hairy dick in the nation needs to own them. For that reason I believe in gun restrictions and in the absolute requirement of some firearm tools for rural living. It is a balance that needs to be constantly tweaked to keep up with technology. No one in Canada needs to be able to send 100 rounds a minute downrange, let alone 1000. The petty nuances to each argument really just come down to 'But I want to scream fire in a theater and watch the chaos'. and there are limits to your free speech that prohibit that unless there is one, and there are limits to how many people you can kill in a minute too. The overwhelming majority of Voters agree with these limits. Sorry to those who are in the minority, not sorry. But I do wish everyone a fine day, lets keep the dialogue healthy and try not to get an itchy trigger finger on the insults. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: So if the citizens want more strict gun laws (especially like the one currently restricting hand guns) our elected officials shouldn’t represent what the citizens want? You're elected official did that and now he will get voted out. Obviously that's not the main reason but it will be part of it. Last I heard there are 2.2 million firearm owners in Canada and they probably won't be voting for him because of it. Well one of the reasons anyway. And except hippy too I guess. So if the conservatives say they will reverse Trudeau's gun laws as they just did and they get voted in I guess that's what the citizens want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: Handguns in Canada - The Data - Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights Since 2003, Canada has kept accurate counts of the number of registered firearms, and handguns are all in the restricted and prohibited category. As well since 2003, the number of restricted and prohibited firearms has doubled from 572,325 to 1,165,114 firearms, while the rate of homicide by handgun has remained relatively constant (Figure 1). Statistical regression analysis reveals no associated increased in handgun homicide with the increase in the number of registered restricted and prohibited firearms (Table 1). Nor is there an increase in overall firearms homicide (Table 2). This is important because with such an increase, if prevalence of handguns was associated with an increase in homicide, one would expect homicide rates to also increase. This suggests that legally owned firearms are not linked with homicide rates. Arguments for placing strict controls on handguns appear to be related to prevalence reduction in the hope that if handguns are difficult to obtain there will be an associated reduction in homicide. However, this argument may mistakenly view all handguns as the same item, whereas legally owned handguns and handguns on the black market may have much different risk of associated harm. In fact, in Ontario, Canada, where handguns are very difficult to legally acquire, it appears that 85% of handguns involved in criminal activity were not obtained legally in Canada but rather from outside the country and most often from the United States. Hence, controlling domestically legally owned handguns may in fact result in no additional or measurable benefit. In addition, licensed firearms owners in Canada are half as likely to commit homicide with a firearm than an average Canadian. Hmm. The Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights. If we are going to get completely unbiased points of view how about something from the NRA? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Just now, Spring Salmon said: You're elected official did that and now he will get voted out. Obviously that's not the main reason but it will be part of it. Last I heard there are 2.2 million firearm owners in Canada and they probably won't be voting for him because of it. Well one of the reasons anyway. And except hippy too I guess. So if the conservatives say they will reverse Trudeau's gun laws as they just did and they get voted in I guess that's what the citizens want We could continue the discussion or just end it all by saying the liberals will be voted out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: No offense man but you really don't know what you're talking about. Almost all guns used in crime started out legal..... In the USA. So that means as soon as they were smuggled across the border they became illegal. I don't know what you guys think legal gun owners can just buy them and sell them to whoever or they just keep them lying around the house for someone to steal. There are storage laws that need to be followed and locked up accordingly. The worst thing for a legal owner to do would be trying to explain to the police where his handgun went. Certain rifles are being banned purely on cosmetic appearance (you know looks too scary) Just so you know "assault weapons" were banned in Canada in 1977 so you don't have to worry there. Calling a AR-15 or some .22 variant a assault rifle would be like painting a racing stripe on a Prius and calling it a Indy car. It's just unfortunate that the government and media can mislead Canadians about firearms so much for easy votes My conspiracy theorist friends in Chilliwack have their guns all locked up in a large safe in their bedroom. They go to the range every month. I went to the range a few times with them. My favourite one to shoot was the GLOCK pistol. Perfect aim every time and very steady... Edited June 2 by Elias Pettersson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 6 minutes ago, Satchmo said: Hmm. The Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights. If we are going to get completely unbiased points of view how about something from the NRA? You are free to provide stats from another source if you have them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 9 minutes ago, Satchmo said: You keep lobbing the ball back over the net but not getting any aces. Your opinion is as valid as anyone's but how about some hard stats to back up your points? You would just discredit them like you did to Peteys. I just Googled "handgun shootings legal gun owners Canada" and pages of info showed up. None of it backing up your side. Even CTV didn't help you out 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 11 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: Have a good day folks, interesting debates this morning. I do miss firing the Carl G and the 50 cal, heck even the c-6 using a 'hasty tripod' of my buddy bent over with his hands on his knees was a hoot in some ways, but I don't buy that every tom hairy dick in the nation needs to own them. For that reason I believe in gun restrictions and in the absolute requirement of some firearm tools for rural living. It is a balance that needs to be constantly tweaked to keep up with technology. No one in Canada needs to be able to send 100 rounds a minute downrange, let alone 1000. The petty nuances to each argument really just come down to 'But I want to scream fire in a theater and watch the chaos'. and there are limits to your free speech that prohibit that unless there is one, and there are limits to how many people you can kill in a minute too. The overwhelming majority of Voters agree with these limits. Sorry to those who are in the minority, not sorry. But I do wish everyone a fine day, lets keep the dialogue healthy and try not to get an itchy trigger finger on the insults. I honestly wasn't trying to insult anybody but calling an ar-15 an assault rifle doesn't scream firearm knowledge to me. Cheers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: My conspiracy theorist friends in Chilliwack have their guns all locked up in a large safe in their bedroom. They go to the range every month. I went to the range a few times with them. My favourite one to shoot was the GLOCK pistol. Perfect aim every time and very steady... Yes your friends sound like responsible people. All this gun talk has me wanting to go to the range now. Lately my favourite has been the 1911 except 45s have been getting to expensive lately. Stupid Trudeau 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: You are free to provide stats from another source if you have them... I'm not sure if any of these directly contradict what the CCFR said but I do think I'm justified in thinking that organization might be just a little biased on this matter. Firearms and violent crime in Canada, 2022 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2024001/article/00001-eng.htm A Dialogue on Handguns and Assault Weapons https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/cnslttns/hndgn/_fls/rdcng-vlnt-crm-en.pdf Edited June 2 by Satchmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) Violent crime and gun crime are dramatically down under Trudeau? How many billions of dollars have been so far wasted on their gun registries? You guys just eat up the virtue signalling like there's no tomorrow. Edited June 2 by bolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 10 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: You would just discredit them like you did to Peteys. I just Googled "handgun shootings legal gun owners Canada" and pages of info showed up. None of it backing up your side. Even CTV didn't help you out I just googled that too. And yes I am likely to discredit much that turned up. I checked out what MediaBiasFactCheck said about a few of them and was not impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 6 minutes ago, Satchmo said: I just googled that too. And yes I am likely to discredit much that turned up. I checked out what MediaBiasFactCheck said about a few of them and was not impressed. Do you believe the RCMP? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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