Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 11 minutes ago, bolt said: You guys just eat up the virtue signalling like there's no tomorrow. It's mind boggling actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 8 minutes ago, bolt said: Violent crime and gun crime are dramatically down under Trudeau? How many billions of dollars have been so far wasted on their gun registries? You guys just eat up the virtue signalling like there's no tomorrow. I won't comment on the tenuous relationship between your first two sentences but I will comment on 'virtue signaling'. I had to look it up: noun DEROGATORY noun: virtue signalling the public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue. "it's noticeable how often virtue signaling consists of saying you hate things" What if we just honestly believed in the things we are saying without trying to demonstrate anything but that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 3 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: Do you believe the RCMP? Actually if you were to go off what the RCMP say since legal owners do 3 to 5 times less murder than ordinary citizens it would be safer if we had more legal gun owners 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 8 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: Do you believe the RCMP? Does that come from this NRA document? https://nfa.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/RCMP-ATI-Licensed-Gun-Owner-Crime-Statistics.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 40 minutes ago, Satchmo said: I'm not sure if any of these directly contradict what the CCFR said but I do think I'm justified in thinking that organization might be just a little biased on this matter. Firearms and violent crime in Canada, 2022 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2024001/article/00001-eng.htm A Dialogue on Handguns and Assault Weapons https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/cnslttns/hndgn/_fls/rdcng-vlnt-crm-en.pdf No, nothing you posted actually contradicts what the CCFR said. But you are justified in not believing what they say either. Having said that, they did provide some statistical analysis that hasn’t been refuted yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/blockade-briefly-stops-pride-parade-in-downtown-winnipeg-1.6910476 Conservatives blocking pride parades now...oh wait it's the left protesting the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) 1 hour ago, Spring Salmon said: Can you point out in that article where it said the dad had firearms license? First of all, I'm for people owning guns. However, if you improperly store a firearm at home, it shouldn't matter if the dad had a firearms license at that point. It's still negligence. The only difference would be that it would make it even worse if he doesn't have a license. That's it. I get being in the heat of a discussion, but let's not get into bad faith arguments that ignore the actual problem at hand: the negligence of the father (and this goes for both sides to be fair). I'm saying this as a full licensed gun owner. Edited June 2 by The Lock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 hour ago, Spring Salmon said: Well if you were a sport shooter and they "freeze" handgun sales it would affect you but I guess it doesn't so who cares right You have no right to bear arms in Canada. If it's so important, lots of room to the South. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: My conspiracy theorist friends in Chilliwack have their guns all locked up in a large safe in their bedroom. They go to the range every month. I went to the range a few times with them. My favourite one to shoot was the GLOCK pistol. Perfect aim every time and very steady... This is exactly what gun laws are targeting. Your friends most likely obtained their PAL illegally as they definitely did not divulge this information on the application. Their fever dreams of an armed revolution are incredibly dangerous but there isn't an easy or foolproof way to weed out the wackos like this, thus makimg a blanket law necessary. It's illegal to use a firearm for self defense in Canada no matter the scenario, yet many gun owners secretly dream of doing just that. Whether it be the government, a home intruder, and let's not pretend people aren't getting more and more unhinged these days. We need laws to protect us from all kinds of gun violence, not just gangs. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure in this scenario, imo. If strict gun laws don't work tell me why they have drastically lowered gun violence stats in countries that have implemented them? Yes we need more security at the border to stop the flow of illegal guns. We are all in agreement there, but that doesn't mean we should relax gun laws here. It means we should do it all. Personal anecdotal story so take that for what it's worth. A few years ago I was made aware of a student who was posting pictures of himself on social media holding all of his families weapons. 20 in total! He had plans to shoot up his school and even practiced with a friend. The weapons were all purchased legally but because the child had access they were all confiscated, as they should have been. That being said they were all returned after a few months of investigation, ffs. This story didn't make the news but there's most likely scenarios like this all over Canada. The only reason the RCMP found out about this one is because the kid posted it on social media and some of his friends reported it. Otherwise he'd still have access or worse. This is why we need stricter gun laws, because people can't be trusted. Many feel that what they do in their own homes is up to them. How do you get these people to follow the rules and regulations otherwise? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 12 minutes ago, bolt said: https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/blockade-briefly-stops-pride-parade-in-downtown-winnipeg-1.6910476 Conservatives blocking pride parades now...oh wait it's the left protesting the left. Sounds shitty if you only read the headline, or if you struggle with reading in general. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Just now, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said: Sounds shitty if you only read the headline, or if you struggle with reading in general. The headline is intentional for clicks. Unfortunately, many just read headlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 People need to realise guns are a hobby. They're not a need. They're a want by some people. If the purpose of guns is just to go to the shooting range, that's even more so a hobby since you're not even hunting with them. You're not even using them to get yourself meat to save money on food. However, there's also the notion of correlation and causation. Just because we have gangs with guns and gun violence happening, it does not mean it's due to the gun laws. Banning guns will not mean less gun violence because the ones who cause the violence already have them or will get them illegally anyway. In my opinion, laws should be with all of this kept in mind. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 hour ago, The Lock said: First of all, I'm for people owning guns. However, if you improperly store a firearm at home, it shouldn't matter if the dad had a firearms license at that point. It's still negligence. The only difference would be that it would make it even worse if he doesn't have a license. That's it. I get being in the heat of a discussion, but let's not get into bad faith arguments that ignore the actual problem at hand: the negligence of the father (and this goes for both sides to be fair). I'm saying this as a full licensed gun owner. I agree with you they should be stored correctly. The point is legal owners know the laws better and are more likely to follow them as they have stiffer penalties. Not sure what we are arguing about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 59 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said: This is exactly what gun laws are targeting. Your friends most likely obtained their PAL illegally as they definitely did not divulge this information on the application. Their fever dreams of an armed revolution are incredibly dangerous but there isn't an easy or foolproof way to weed out the wackos like this, thus makimg a blanket law necessary You know this sounds like a ridiculous conspiracy theory. Just WOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 hour ago, Bob Long said: You have no right to bear arms in Canada. If it's so important, lots of room to the South. No Canada is not a communist country and if people are vetted they should be allowed to own firearms. If that bothers you so much feel free to move to one of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 hour ago, Satchmo said: Does that come from this NRA document? https://nfa.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/RCMP-ATI-Licensed-Gun-Owner-Crime-Statistics.pdf That is the NFA not NRA with stats from the RCMP. Do you not believe them either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 6 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: That is the NFA not NRA with stats from the RCMP. Do you not believe them either? Oops. Sorry, you are right. It's just that I couldn't find those words anywhere else let alone in an RCMP statement. You'd think if it was a quote from the RCMP you could find the source statement. So, I remain a bit dubious. Not saying it is or isn't valid quote; just that I could find no proof that it actually comes from the RCMP. And no, I'm not sure how much I can trust these guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Association Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Satchmo said: Oops. Sorry, you are right. It's just that I couldn't find those words anywhere else let alone in an RCMP statement. You'd think if it was a quote from the RCMP you could find the source statement. So, I remain a bit dubious. Not saying it is or isn't valid quote; just that I could find no proof that it actually comes from the RCMP. And no, I'm not sure how much I can trust these guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Association Chief superintendent Marty Cheliak the director general RCMP Canadian firearms center. Click on screenshot to see it clearer Edited June 2 by Spring Salmon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 7 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: Chief superintendent Marty Cheliak the director general RCMP Canadian firearms center. Click on screenshot to see it clearer You literally debunked their entire argument as the RCMP agrees with you. This is a live look at some posters scrambling to refute the RCMP’s own words… 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Spring Salmon said: I agree with you they should be stored correctly. The point is legal owners know the laws better and are more likely to follow them as they have stiffer penalties. Not sure what we are arguing about It seemed like you were making this out to be there being a difference on whether the dad was a registered gun owner or not. Personally, I don't think we can depend on that. I had a neighbour, a registered gun owner, walk towards a school bus once, gun in hand. There's obviously more to the story than that, but even with the details of the story (going after the neighbour's dog essentially), it shows not all gun owners are smart. Needless to say the cops were called pretty quickly. The truth is, not all legal owners know better. It's like saying all politicians know better. You know that's not true so there's no point in pretending like it is. Edited June 2 by The Lock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Believe me it does not get clearer when clicked on... I went back to the document itself and clicked the link: I have so far found nothing related to that quote searching for 'Chief Supt. Marty Cheliak' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 hour ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said: This is exactly what gun laws are targeting. Your friends most likely obtained their PAL illegally as they definitely did not divulge this information on the application. Their fever dreams of an armed revolution are incredibly dangerous but there isn't an easy or foolproof way to weed out the wackos like this, thus makimg a blanket law necessary. It's illegal to use a firearm for self defense in Canada no matter the scenario, yet many gun owners secretly dream of doing just that. Whether it be the government, a home intruder, and let's not pretend people aren't getting more and more unhinged these days. We need laws to protect us from all kinds of gun violence, not just gangs. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure in this scenario, imo. If strict gun laws don't work tell me why they have drastically lowered gun violence stats in countries that have implemented them? Yes we need more security at the border to stop the flow of illegal guns. We are all in agreement there, but that doesn't mean we should relax gun laws here. It means we should do it all. Personal anecdotal story so take that for what it's worth. A few years ago I was made aware of a student who was posting pictures of himself on social media holding all of his families weapons. 20 in total! He had plans to shoot up his school and even practiced with a friend. The weapons were all purchased legally but because the child had access they were all confiscated, as they should have been. That being said they were all returned after a few months of investigation, ffs. This story didn't make the news but there's most likely scenarios like this all over Canada. The only reason the RCMP found out about this one is because the kid posted it on social media and some of his friends reported it. Otherwise he'd still have access or worse. This is why we need stricter gun laws, because people can't be trusted. Many feel that what they do in their own homes is up to them. How do you get these people to follow the rules and regulations otherwise? What exactly did they not divulge in order to get their gun licence illegally? That they are conspiracy theorists and believe in chemtrails and that the moon landing was faked? Is that enough to deny them an application for a gun licence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 minute ago, The Lock said: It seemed like you were making this out to be there being a difference on whether the dad was a registered gun owner or not. Personally, I don't think we can depend on that. I had a neighbour, a registered gun owner, walk towards a school bus once, gun in hand. There's obviously more to the story than that, but even with the details of the story (going after the neighbour's dog essentially), it shows not all gun owners are smart. Needless to say the cops were called pretty quickly. There is a difference. If he was not a legal owner then he was a criminal possessing a gun hence gun laws wouldn't have effected anything. Legal gun owners have to be extra careful with what they do because the police can seize their guns for not following the laws. I even heard of someone having trouble renewing their PAL because of excessive speeding ticket Your other post I don't really agree with either because in life the only "need" is food and water. You "need" food and water to live. Not running shoes or a car or whatever. Remember the cave men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: You literally debunked their entire argument as the RCMP agrees with you. This is a live look at some posters scrambling to refute the RCMP’s own words… Oh good one Petey. I'm crushed now. As you will know you can always just believe anything anybody says on the internet without bothering to fact check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Salmon Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: What exactly did they not divulge in order to get their gun licence illegally? That they are conspiracy theorists and believe in chemtrails and that the moon landing was faked? Is that enough to deny them an application for a gun licence? I always thought you called them "conspiracy theorists" because they didn't believe the latest thing the government/media said. That's the definition nowadays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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