Canadian Politics Thread

[RupertKBD]

Just speaking for myself, but I've got plenty of Hell left in me....

 

Hair boy's master Tax plan hasn't worked on me.

[Warhippy]

While I understand that it's an ongoing investigation and the government will not hand out names.

 

The people absolutely desrve to know who and whom these people were before the next election and by hiding or protecting the individuals it paints the current Liberal party in a seriously ugly light.

 

This isn't the Hair boy, budget balancing, pierre poo poo type crap this is serious.

 

Freeland is walking a very dangerous line here and if 10 agencies say it's wrong and borderline treasonous than these individuals need to be removed from office ASAP without hesitation and monitored heavily while having their accounts audited.  The fact that they will not commit to removing them from the liberal caucus IF they are liberal and instead would do an internal review is shameful.  The reports indicate that it is multi party between Liberal Conservative and Bloc with some former higher profile PPC candidates allegedly being involved but for anyone in office to not immediately agree to removing the individual is seriously bad optics

For all the actual whining done by Canadians, this one is probably the single highest profile issue of import since that idiot caused Harper to hide in a closet by shooting up parliament.

 

The committee said an unknown number of parliamentarians inappropriately communicated with foreign missions ahead of a political campaign and accepted money from foreign governments or their proxies.

Unnamed parliamentarians also provided foreign diplomatic officials with "privileged information on the work or opinions of fellow parliamentarians," knowing that the information could be used to manipulate some other MPs and senators, the report said.

Certain parliamentarians also responded to requests from foreign actors to "improperly influence parliamentary colleagues" to benefit another country, and disclosed confidential government information to "a known intelligence officer or foreign state," the committee said in its report, which was heavily redacted.

 

Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland told reporters Tuesday the government takes the threat of foreign political interference "very seriously" and said the country can't be "naive" about authoritarian governments seeking to undermine our democracy.

When asked if she could guarantee that the Liberals will eject from their caucus any parliamentarian found to have engaged in the activities cited in the report, Freeland would not make that commitment.

 

"The guarantee I can give to Canadians is our government takes foreign interference very, very seriously," she said. She pointed to new government legislation, Bill C-70, that would create a foreign agent registry to compel people working on behalf of foreign governments to report their dealings.

Pressed to say if she thinks Canadians should know who is supposedly working to undermine the country before the next election, Freeland said she trusts police to do their work.

As for the Liberal Party, Freeland said in French the allegations of foreign interference are "a matter of national interest of national security and as a political party we will do an internal followup."

It wasn't immediately clear what form this "internal followup" will take.

 

Public Safety Minister Dominic LeBlanc sidestepped a question about the report's conclusion that certain unnamed parliamentarians inappropriately worked with foreign actors.

"I think as a matter of principle, it's unwise to speak about specific elements that may involve individuals," LeBlanc said.

He also said the "government respectfully disagrees" with some of NSICOP's findings, without offering any specific concerns about what the committee found.

The federal Liberal government created NSICOP. The federal cabinet, based on the prime minister's recommendations, names its members, who are given security clearances to review the country's most sensitive information.

Rather than call a public inquiry into the matter of foreign interference, the government tasked NSICOP and a former judge at the Public Inquiry into Foreign Interference with investigating claims of meddling.

"The government's concerns centre around the interpretation of intelligence reports which lack the necessary caveats inherent to intelligence," LeBlanc said of NSICOP.

 

Wesley Wark, one of Canada's foremost experts on national security, said Tuesday the NSCIOP report reveals "underbelly stories" that are "nausea-inducing."

He cited one account in the report that said an unnamed MP consorted with a foreign intelligence officer, sought to arrange an overseas meeting and "provided the intelligence officer with information provided in confidence." Wark called that scenario "textbook treason."

Housing Minister Sean Fraser said he's willing to wait to learn the names of the alleged foreign conspirators.

"The obvious potential reputational damage a person might suffer if there's another side of the story, that must be considered. Those are all factors that will give me some cause to take it seriously and be patient to make sure we get this right," Fraser said.

He said Canadians can learn about who's alleged to have engaged in these activities if there's a police investigation that produces criminal charges.

Justice Minister Arif Virani said the government is concerned about the issue of foreign meddling and is taking action.

He said NSICOP's findings should be troubling "for all of us, regardless of caucus or party."

Indeed, the committee also found that foreign actors from India and the People's Republic of China allegedly interfered in more than one race for the leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada — claims the party said Monday it wasn't aware of before the NSCIOP report was released.

[Warhippy]

With numerous Conservative hopefuls sounding the alarm regarding being shut out of leadership or riding 

 

It only raises more questions.

 

 

Foreign actors from India and the People's Republic of China allegedly interfered in more than one race for the leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada, says an intelligence report tabled in the House of Commons on Monday.

The report from the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP), a key Canadian intelligence oversight body, says there were "two specific instances where [People's Republic of China] officials allegedly interfered in the leadership races of the Conservative Party of Canada."

Most of the details regarding the allegations in the NSICOP report have been redacted.

The report does not provide any further information about the nature of Beijing's alleged interference, or about which Conservative leadership races allegedly were targeted and when.

The report also reported an allegation that India interfered in a single Conservative Party leadership race.

The report says details of the allegations were removed from the report before its publication to prevent the spread of "injurious or privileged information."

 

"CSIS did not advise the Conservative Party of Canada of any intelligence suggesting there was foreign interference in the leadership contest," said Sarah Fischer, director of communications for the Conservative Party. "This is the first time we have heard about it."

Fischer said Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre's campaign received no notice of interference in his race and "has no awareness of what is referenced."

To buy a Conservative Party membership, people had to pay by personal credit card, personal cheque or personal bank draft, Fischer told CBC News in an email. She said cash and pre-paid credit cards could not be used. 

 

[Bure_Pavel]

4 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Nice words.   Got a plan to make that happen?  One with clear and concise details?

I do, but I probably wont be elected. Closer to the election more detailed plans will come out, everyone holding their cards close to their chest for now. Liberals are currently seeing how many new programs they can add into the mix before time runs out, as a last ditch attempt to boost popularity, willing to spare no expense.  

[Optimist Prime]

45 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

The Fraser Institute: Prime Minister Trudeau’s redistribution economics doesn’t add up

 

https://thehub.ca/2024/06/04/jason-clemens-jake-fuss-and-milagros-palacios-trudeaus-redistribution-economics-doesnt-add-up/

 

"Simply put, the Trudeau government’s policies, which focused on government-led prosperity and moving income around instead of growing incomes, has led to a decline in living standards and economic malaise. Canadians are struggling when we should be leading the world in growth and prosperity. The only way to reverse our economic decline is to embrace a markedly different approach to policy, focused on economic growth through entrepreneurship, investment and innovation."

 

 

I see you found the publishing wing of the Conservative Party. 

[Bure_Pavel]

5 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I see you found the publishing wing of the Conservative Party. 

The Fraser Institute is a non profit charity thinktank. They may lean a little right but is in no way the publishing wing of the Conservative Party.

 

In 2020 the Global Go To Think Tank Index Report ranked Fraser as 14th of the "Top Think Tanks Worldwide" and 1 in the "Top Think Tanks in Mexico and Canada"

 

The Fraser Institute describes itself as "an independent, non-partisan research and educational organization",^[20] and envisions "a free and prosperous world where individuals benefit from greater choice, competitive markets, and personal responsibility".

[Optimist Prime]

14 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

You can make the argument that the Ontario Police are under the jurisdiction of the Ford Government, which is fair.  But you will never convince me that the Trudeau Liberal government didn't have a hand in this

So you will never consider reality in your reaching an opinion. Good to know it isn't worth anyone's time discussing issues with you. 

 

I mean, you are acknowledging the reality and then denying that it will have any effect on your opinion.

 

I guess that is your right, it isn't illegal to choose to be ignorant.

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

3 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

So you will never consider reality in your reaching an opinion. Good to know it isn't worth anyone's time discussing issues with you. 

Confirmation bias (also confirmatory bias, myside bias,^[a] or congeniality bias^[2]) is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.^[3] People display this bias when they select information that supports their views, ignoring contrary information, or when they interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing attitudes. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs. Confirmation bias is insuperable for most people, but they can manage it, for example, by education and training in critical thinking skills.

[Optimist Prime]

17 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

The Fraser Institute is a non profit charity thinktank. They may lean a little right but is in no way the publishing wing of the Conservative Party.

 

In 2020 the Global Go To Think Tank Index Report ranked Fraser as 14th of the "Top Think Tanks Worldwide" and 1 in the "Top Think Tanks in Mexico and Canada"

 

The Fraser Institute describes itself as "an independent, non-partisan research and educational organization",^[20] and envisions "a free and prosperous world where individuals benefit from greater choice, competitive markets, and personal responsibility".

Were you aware that Preston Manning was near the top when that description was authored?

 

Also from the link you provided to your source, nothing is said about the Fraser Institute directly, among a list of hundreds of global think tanks...but this was noted about the list you are sourcing:

Quote

The Think Tanks and Civil Societies Program (TTCSP) at the University of Pennsylvania, led by James McGann, annually rates policy institutes worldwide in a number of categories and presents its findings in the Global Go-To Think Tanks rating index.^[18] However, this method of the study and assessment of policy institutes has been criticized....by the Open Society Institute.

Most former Conservative politicians of prominence go to work for the Fraser Institute between CEO gigs and Parliamentary Cabinet gigs. This is a fact. 

 

 

edit: the two co-founders of the Fraser Institute were international business moguls focusing on free markets and corporate interests.

Quote

 on Michael A. Walker: His primary concern as the Institute’s founding Executive Director was to promote the examination and use of competitive markets as a method for enhancing the lives of Canadians.

 

Quote

on T. Patrick Boyle: went on to complete his business administration studies before embarking on a highly successful business career that spanned more than 25 years in the U.S. and Canada. He served as MacMillan Bloedel’s first worldwide corporate controller before retiring in 1977 to devote his energy to the Fraser Institute. As founding chairman and long-time vice-chairman of the Institute’s Board of Directors, Mr. Boyle played a pivotal role in ensuring that the Institute’s founding principles continue to guide it to this day.

When Preston Manning was a prominent board member of the Fraser Institute, post political life, I did some research. 

[Bure_Pavel]

16 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Were you aware that Preston Manning was near the top when that description was authored?

 

Also from the link you provided to your source, nothing is said about the Fraser Institute directly, among a list of hundreds of global think tanks...but this was noted about the list you are sourcing:

Most former Conservative politicians of prominence go to work for the Fraser Institute between CEO gigs and Parliamentary Cabinet gigs. This is a fact. 

 

 

edit: the two co-founders of the Fraser Institute were international business moguls focusing on free markets and corporate interests.

 

When Preston Manning was a prominent board member of the Fraser Institute, post political life, I did some research. 

They use fact based research and information is still better than 90% of the sources posted here in that regard, as every news source lean one way or the other. I didnt see you criticizing anyone posting CBC articles. 

[Satchmo]

3 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

They use fact based research and information is still better than 90% of the sources posted here in that regard, as every news source lean one way or the other. I didnt see you criticizing anyone posting CBC articles. 

Perhaps not, but we are aware of their bias.   I think all people are doing is pointing out that the undeniably clever people at the Fraser Institute lean to the right.  Let's keep every outlets' bias in mind as we ponder what they say.

 

CBC:

LEFT-CENTER BIAS

These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias.  They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by appeals to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes.  These sources are generally trustworthy for information but may require further investigation. See all Left-Center sources.

Overall, we rate CBC as Left-Center Biased based on editorial positions that lean slightly left and High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact-check record.

 

Fraser Institute:

RIGHT-CENTER BIAS

These media sources are slightly to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor conservative causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation. See all Right-Center sources.

Overall, we rate Fraser Institute as strongly Right-Center biased based on policy positions that favor business and Mixed for factual reporting due to false and misleading claims regarding global warming.

[Optimist Prime]

19 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

They use fact based research and information is still better than 90% of the sources posted here in that regard, as every news source lean one way or the other. I didnt see you criticizing anyone posting CBC articles. 

So to get this strait in my mind: you prefer a conservative marketing group to the news?

[Bure_Pavel]

3 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Perhaps not, but we are aware of their bias.   I think all people are doing is pointing out that the undeniably clever people at the Fraser Institute lean to the right.  Let's keep every outlets' bias in mind as we ponder what they say.

 

CBC:

LEFT-CENTER BIAS

These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias.  They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by appeals to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes.  These sources are generally trustworthy for information but may require further investigation. See all Left-Center sources.

Overall, we rate CBC as Left-Center Biased based on editorial positions that lean slightly left and High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact-check record.

 

Fraser Institute:

RIGHT-CENTER BIAS

These media sources are slightly to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor conservative causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation. See all Right-Center sources.

Overall, we rate Fraser Institute as strongly Right-Center biased based on policy positions that favor business and Mixed for factual reporting due to false and misleading claims regarding global warming.

That it fair, biases definitely should be recognized. I feel it was being called out for extreme bias when poster write "I see you found the publishing wing of the Conservative Party." as similar comments can be made about almost all articles if they don't lean towards your desired stance.   

[Bure_Pavel]

3 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

So to get this strait in my mind: you prefer a conservative marketing group to the news?

I prefer research and facts to the news, its nice forming your own opinion sometimes. You don't have to read an article and agree with every point.

[Optimist Prime]

15 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

You can make the argument that the Ontario Police are under the jurisdiction of the Ford Government, which is fair.  But you will never convince me that the Trudeau Liberal government didn't have a hand in this

 

30 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

They use fact based research and information is still better than 90% of the sources posted here in that regard, as every news source lean one way or the other. I didnt see you criticizing anyone posting CBC articles. 

So, for those keeping track at home: Two of the most adamant voices here against the current government and in favour of Pierre Poilievre prefer to divorce reality from their opinions. The news aint the news, only the right wing talking points are the news. Then, even if the reality of a conservative government being in charge of the Ontario cops seeps into their craniums, that won't change their opinion that Trudeau controls the cops in Ontario. 

 

You honestly can't make this stuff up folks. They are saying it right to your face. Reality doesn't matter, only my team winning does. That seems to be the CON MAN way of doing things. 

[Ricky Ravioli]

Government won't commit to releasing names of MPs who allegedly conspired with foreign actors

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mps-foreign-interference-nsicop-1.7224132

 

This is concerning. 

 

Also pretty curious that the Liberals voted against looking into the issue. Not suspicious at all...

 

https://www.noscommunes.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/339?view=party#mip-vote-text-collapsible-text

Edited June 4 by Ricky Ravioli

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Ricky Ravioli said:

Government won't commit to releasing names of MPs who allegedly conspired with foreign actors

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mps-foreign-interference-nsicop-1.7224132

 

This is concerning. 

Sure is.  Equally concerning would be naming names of people who are suspect but not charged and eventually found to be not guilty of anything.

It's now a police matter. Let this be played out as these things should be.  If there really is something there it will be impossible to just sweep it under the rug. 

 

Of course, if they are found guilty then screw them hard.

[Optimist Prime]

10 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Sure is.  Equally concerning would be naming names of people who are suspect but not charged and eventually found to be not guilty of anything.

It's now a police matter. Let this be played out as these things should be.  If there really is something there it will be impossible to just sweep it under the rug. 

 

Of course, if they are found guilty then screw them hard.

Exactly: "they are covering this up by referring it to the proper authorities while refraining from idle gossip and speculation" just isn't the vibe I am getting. 
Let us see exactly what is up after the cops do their investigations. Like the Harper appointed seat of the Green Fund making such a mockery of it she lost her job AND her billion dollar folio was taken away and given to a different ministry alltogether. This just happened and is in the news, so it isn't worth talking about yet, lets wait for the Fraser Institute's opinion before we form a thought on it. 

[the destroyer of worlds]

I think this is the key. 

 

 

 

There may still be police investigations into these allegations, the ministers said, and details could eventually be released as part of that process.

[Bure_Pavel]

33 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

I think this is the key. 

 

 

 

There may still be police investigations into these allegations, the ministers said, and details could eventually be released as part of that process.

This investigation has been going for a long time already, and should be a CSIS matter not police. 

 

CSIS warned Prime Minister's Office in 2023 that China 'clandestinely and deceptively' interfered in elections

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pmo-briefing-leaks-1.7167090

 

The document alleges that at least 11 candidates and 13 staff members were implicated in foreign interference by the Chinese government, and that multiple political parties were involved.

 

Another CSIS document, tabled earlier in the inquiry, refers to seven Liberal candidates and four from the Conservative Party of Canada.

"We also observed online and media activities aimed at discouraging Canadians, particularly of Chinese heritage, from supporting the Conservative Party, leader Erin O'Toole, and particularly Steveston-Richmond East Candidate Kenny Chiu," says the briefing note.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

So you will never consider reality in your reaching an opinion. Good to know it isn't worth anyone's time discussing issues with you. 

 

I mean, you are acknowledging the reality and then denying that it will have any effect on your opinion.

 

I guess that is your right, it isn't illegal to choose to be ignorant.

Trust me brother, I am the furthest thing from ignorant. I acknowledged that the Ontario Police are under the guidance of the Ford government. However, considering Trudeau enacted the Emergencies Act shortly afterwards I have no doubt his hands were all over the situation as well. 
 

The fact that we are just finding out that some MP’s have committed TREASON, I am sure you can understand my distrust in politicians in general. 

Edited June 4 by Elias Pettersson

[Elias Pettersson]

I thought our elections were secure?  That’s what the government told me. What happened?

[Bob Long]

12 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I thought our elections were secure?  That’s what the government told me. What happened?

 

they are, the current inquiry has found that the meddling didn't cause any change in who won.

 

But having said that, the meddling is too serious to just brush aside,  Trudeau, Jag and Skippy need to actually work together on this to make sure this issue doesn't have any further impact.

 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Ricky Ravioli said:

Government won't commit to releasing names of MPs who allegedly conspired with foreign actors

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mps-foreign-interference-nsicop-1.7224132

 

This is concerning. 

 

Also pretty curious that the Liberals voted against looking into the issue. Not suspicious at all...

 

https://www.noscommunes.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/339?view=party#mip-vote-text-collapsible-text

 

this is where the RCMP and CSIS need to be free to do their work with no government interference of any kind.

 

I can imagine in some cases, they may be sensitive info that would do more harm than good to release, and other MPs can be rightfully raked over the coals.

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

they are, the current inquiry has found that the meddling didn't cause any change in who won.

 

But having said that, the meddling is too serious to just brush aside,  Trudeau, Jag and Skippy need to actually work together on this to make sure this issue doesn't have any further impact.

 

 

Not sure that comforts me Bob.  The fact that our elections were meddled in by a Communist country regardless of whether it changed the outcome or not should be cause for concern for everybody.  I mean if Sutherland called 25 penalties on the Canucks and we still win the game should Sutherland still not be investigated?