Canadian Politics Thread

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Respectfully,

 

If elected out first mission will be electoral reform.

 

Just saying, politicians lie

Of course politicians lie. But when it comes to abortion there is no appetite to bring it back to the forefront. Like I already said most Catholics are okay with it. My cousin even had an abortion. 
 

PP would not be able to garner any support to try and change what is already legislated. At this point, it’s just fear mongering from the progressives. 
 

I mean at this point if that’s all they got the election is going to be a whitewash the likes of which we have never seen. Worse than Mulroney. 

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

The issue is the same as that of conservatives and small c moderates.

 

The minority voices are dictating policy for the majority.  While most devout Catholics don't necessarily agree with some aspects of lgbtq lifestyles, abortion etc.  they won't raise the roof over it.

 

But

 

The minority evangelical voices that are dictating policy in the US and to an extent Canada with their grass roots campaigns for municipal level politics, are in fact speaking for the majority by influencing policy decisions.

 

That's the rub.  The squeakiest cog is getting the grease, the issue is it's a small cog getting the lions share of it

As Joe Biden would say, here’s the deal. 
 

Most Catholics are okay with the LGBTQ community, the gay lifestyle, divorce, abortions, etc. Reason why is because that is how we as a society live on a daily basis. Catholics are intertwined with the rest of society. We have friends and coworkers that are gay, that are transgender, that are divorced, that have had abortions. We don’t go to church every Sunday and tell people what to do. That hasn’t happened in like 20+ years at least. Most lay Catholics don’t even read the bible anymore or go to church. 
 

Society has changed. And religious people have changed along with it. There is no way someone like PP can change this and try to bring it to the way it was because there is no appetite for it from most lay Catholics. 
 

Bob is literally referring to the fringe minority who have zero power or influence over society. These radicals don’t speak for anyone other than themselves. 
 

The Vancouver Canucks are one of the biggest supporters of the LGBTQ community. The owner of the team is a Roman Catholic. His father Luigi literally donated all the money that was needed to rebuild the oldest Catholic Church in Vancouver. 

https://bccatholic.ca/news/catholic-van/donor-contributes-to-st-pauls-restoration

[UnkNuk]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

The hardline stances of many conservative Catholic bishops in the U.S. are not shared by a majority of lay Catholics. Most of them say abortion should be legal, favor greater inclusion of LGBT people, and oppose the denial of Communion for politicians who support abortion rights, according to a new poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research.

The poll, conducted in mid-May, shows a clear gap between the prevalent views of American Catholics and some recent high-profile actions taken by the church's leaders.

 

 

 

Let's keep in mind that the Catholic Church isn't a democracy.

 

I think the position of the Church is that abortion is wrong in almost all cases.

 

To the extent that Catholic laypeople endorse abortion, to that extent they are straying from the official faith/doctrine of the Catholic Church.

 

 

[RupertKBD]

16 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

Let's keep in mind that the Catholic Church isn't a democracy.

 

I think the position of the Church is that abortion is wrong in almost all cases.

 

To the extent that Catholic laypeople endorse abortion, to that extent they are straying from the official faith/doctrine of the Catholic Church.

 

Yeah, the thing that gets overlooked is that it doesn't really matter what the "rank and file" Christians support....it's a select few that actually make policy and their feelings don't necessarily follow those of the majority.

 

A majority of Americans support abortion, but that right has been stripped from women anyway.

 

That's why it's so important who you elect.....

Edited July 7 by RupertKBD

[Elias Pettersson]

37 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

 

Let's keep in mind that the Catholic Church isn't a democracy.

 

I think the position of the Church is that abortion is wrong in almost all cases.

 

To the extent that Catholic laypeople endorse abortion, to that extent they are straying from the official faith/doctrine of the Catholic Church.

 

 

 

Technically, this is true, but as I said most lay Catholics don't follow the bible like they used to and don't go to church for the most part unless it's like Christmas or Easter.  I'm sure we will be punished when we go to the big house in the sky, but it is what it is.

 

The Catholic Church isn't a democracy, but if millions of people aren't going to follow your lead, then they really don't have much power to do anything about it.  If the Pope were hardline most Catholics would have already been booted out of the church.  But we can all still go to church if we want to, we can have communion, do confession, get married in the church, etc.  There is no requirement that we must follow the bible in order to do all of these things.  I can literally walk into my church tomorrow for mass and get communion and do confession without a peep from the priest.  Mind you if I go to confession, I might be there awhile so probably don't want to go that far...  

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

Don't worry about it guys. Petey speaks for the entire Catholic community and he says it's going to be alright. 

[Elias Pettersson]

22 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Don't worry about it guys. Petey speaks for the entire Catholic community and he says it's going to be alright. 

 

Not the entire community, but a large chunk of it for sure.  I'm planning on having a dinner night just to confirm it though with the higher ups...   

[Bob Long]

5 hours ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Don't worry about it guys. Petey speaks for the entire Catholic community and he says it's going to be alright. 

 

Also please ignore PPs backbenchers who already have been trying to get the issue back into new law.

 

But they're just con MPs, nothing to see here right?

 

[Bob Long]

11 hours ago, Warhippy said:

The issue is the same as that of conservatives and small c moderates.

 

The minority voices are dictating policy for the majority.  While most devout Catholics don't necessarily agree with some aspects of lgbtq lifestyles, abortion etc.  they won't raise the roof over it.

 

But

 

The minority evangelical voices that are dictating policy in the US and to an extent Canada with their grass roots campaigns for municipal level politics, are in fact speaking for the majority by influencing policy decisions.

 

That's the rub.  The squeakiest cog is getting the grease, the issue is it's a small cog getting the lions share of it

 

Look at the lesson from the US: evangelicals and the politicians that are supported by them will lie to get what they want, which just happens to be eroding human rights. It's not even debatable in the US.

 

Now here, we have PP dropping pronoun dog whistles to evangelical churches.

 

We have PP backbenchers desperate to bring in new law.

 

We have PPs actual voting history.

 

But sure, nothing to see here, and something about Catholics.

 

 

[bolt]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

Look at the lesson from the US: evangelicals and the politicians that are supported by them will lie to get what they want, which just happens to be eroding human rights. It's not even debatable in the US.

 

Now here, we have PP dropping pronoun dog whistles to evangelical churches.

 

We have PP backbenchers desperate to bring in new law.

 

We have PPs actual voting history.

 

But sure, nothing to see here, and something about Catholics.

 

 

Anything to dump the current trash in office who also lie and have subsequently made Canada worse off.

Edited July 7 by bolt

[King Heffy]

7 minutes ago, bolt said:

Anything to dump the current trash in office who also lie and have subsequently made Canada worse off.

Electing vermin like Poilivre is not going to improve the country though.  Maybe raise the standards a little instead of suggest that a neo-Nazi government is a good idea.

Edited July 7 by King Heffy

[Optimist Prime]

13 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

PP can pander to whoever he wants to get votes. Doesn’t change the fact that abortion rights will never be taken away from women. Which even PP himself said as much. 
 

A Conservative government led by Pierre Poilievre would not legislate on, nor use the notwithstanding clause, on abortion, his office says.

one may have said this exact statement in America only ten years ago.

 

P.P. has also said that backbenchers can bring forward legislation and if it is the will of the house to vote it in, so be it. Not necessarily about abortion per se but one can easily imagine a Conservative majority supporting such a bill that technically could originate as a private members bill from teh backbench, and frankly that is the kind of deceptive ploy the right is known for. 

[Sapper]

It's interesting to see the fascism movement as it spreads globally.  We see it about to take power in both Canada and the USA and France.

 

UK though may be a saving grace and ray of hope for sanity.

 

The UK moved hard right during Brexit and had a few years head  start in showing others the power that can be harvested from the hate.  Now we see in the UK the pendulum racing back to the left.  Our own example here can be followed by the aftermath of both Mulroney and Harper .... Both of which were so horrible as to gift the liberals multiple election wins based solely on voters casting ballots for anyone not conservative 

 

One would think conservatives would have figured out that bending the pendulum do far to the right gives it only one way to go ..... Soaring to the left.

 

The only parties federally that pull of repeated majorities are the ones that govern from the centre.

 

 

[RupertKBD]

9 minutes ago, Sapper said:

It's interesting to see the fascism movement as it spreads globally.  We see it about to take power in both Canada and the USA and France.

 

UK though may be a saving grace and ray of hope for sanity.

 

The UK moved hard right during Brexit and had a few years head  start in showing others the power that can be harvested from the hate.  Now we see in the UK the pendulum racing back to the left.  Our own example here can be followed by the aftermath of both Mulroney and Harper .... Both of which were so horrible as to gift the liberals multiple election wins based solely on voters casting ballots for anyone not conservative 

 

One would think conservatives would have figured out that bending the pendulum do far to the right gives it only one way to go ..... Soaring to the left.

 

The only parties federally that pull of repeated majorities are the ones that govern from the centre.

 

"Racing" is exactly the way to put it. Brexit was such a huge fustercluck for Great Britain, yet somehow Farage and BoJo the Clown aren't pilloried on a daily/hourly basis for the damage they've done to the UK....

 

It's worth noting that both of these cretins are Trump supporters and almost certainly would back Pollievre as well.....

[Optimist Prime]

28 minutes ago, Sapper said:

It's interesting to see the fascism movement as it spreads globally.  We see it about to take power in both Canada and the USA and France.

 

UK though may be a saving grace and ray of hope for sanity.

 

The UK moved hard right during Brexit and had a few years head  start in showing others the power that can be harvested from the hate.  Now we see in the UK the pendulum racing back to the left.  Our own example here can be followed by the aftermath of both Mulroney and Harper .... Both of which were so horrible as to gift the liberals multiple election wins based solely on voters casting ballots for anyone not conservative 

 

One would think conservatives would have figured out that bending the pendulum do far to the right gives it only one way to go ..... Soaring to the left.

 

The only parties federally that pull of repeated majorities are the ones that govern from the centre.

 

 

professionally and personally I believe this is a larger 'death wail' of the more fascist adjacent far right movements. The pendulum will always swing, but it seems that for instance Obama's presidency was a huge swing to progressive politics..and the pushback, was a similar swing to Trump/Teaparty politics, the larger than thought resonance of that swing back is magnified in that people who otherwise wouldn't be voters, for apathetic reasons, are coming out of the woodwork in defence of more right wing policies: control of women, control of minority groups, mainaining the status quo, et cetera. Oddly in Europe, imo the french right wing is advancing because of the massive immigration levels that some would consider progressive policy, meanwhile in England, the last straw perhaps for those who would in america be teapartiers was a visible minority Prime Minister. So similar pendulum swings amplified by the resonance of rare voters coming out for a core issue: protect the status quo? Just a thought I haven't put pen to paper to fully articulate it yet, but this is my rough sketch of the concept. The death throws of the white nationalist right wingers is playing out across democracies world wide perhaps. And it is important to note I am speaking in terms of decade scale cycles, not month to month or year to year.

 

EDit: in the USA i fully expect the next 15 to 20 years to be a pretty big swing back to progressive policy, and in 2040 we will likely see two new states and 3 new Supreme Court positions as the pendulum swings back away from the ultra right and this 'death wail' finishes its cycle. 

 

2nd edit: The more moderate voters who will be attracted to Trump, P.P. and the far right in Europe will have an AHA moment in every nation where they elect a leader and government more right of themselves and have the "what have we done" moment that will push the pendulum back to progressive after 4 to 10 years, generally. The thing of it is, for thousands of years the tide has always moved in favour of progressiveness, with conservative notions historically always retreating. Thus i think we can find comfort in knowing just as the democratic world is far more progressive today than in the year 1200, the democratic world will be even more progressive in the year 2400 than today, cycles speed up with technology of course. 

 

okay that is all i got, its early and I haven't fully worked out the language of this idea yet, hahaha...maybe it will become a paper. 

[bolt]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

Electing vermin like Poilivre is not going to improve the country though.  Maybe raise the standards a little instead of suggest that a neo-Nazi government is a good idea.

Vermin like Trudeau is a proven failure, time to try something new.  

[Optimist Prime]

Just now, bolt said:

Vermin like Trudeau is a proven failure, time to try something new.  

Of course I still support our Prime Minister, but I am reminded of the saying "Politicians, like diapers, must be changed frequently and for the same reasons".

The only good policy I know of from Pierre Poilievre was his first foray into politics insisting that no elected person should be in public office for more than two terms. 
Unfortunately, he has been at the trough himself now for 20 years....sigh

[Sapper]

3 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Of course I still support our Prime Minister, but I am reminded of the saying "Politicians, like diapers, must be changed frequently and for the same reasons".

The only good policy I know of from Pierre Poilievre was his first foray into politics insisting that no elected person should be in public office for more than two terms. 
Unfortunately, he has been at the trough himself now for 20 years....sigh

The liberals themselves have contributed to enabling fascisms rise in Canada. After the second minority government result Truduea should have stepped back and made room for new leadership 

 

Politicians who value their power over the good of the country are not good for the country.  In alot of ways Truduea's desire to hold power is no less a problem than PP's thirst for power ( both men are only in it for themselves)

[bolt]

4 minutes ago, Sapper said:

The liberals themselves have contributed to enabling fascisms rise in Canada. After the second minority government result Truduea should have stepped back and made room for new leadership 

 

Politicians who value their power over the good of the country are not good for the country.  In alot of ways Truduea's desire to hold power is no less a problem than PP's thirst for power ( both men are only in it for themselves)

Trudeau is a classic narcissist.  

[Warhippy]

23 minutes ago, bolt said:

Vermin like Trudeau is a proven failure, time to try something new.  

Congratulations.

 

You're now no better than Heffy.

 

Just start calling them nazis and you won't have us able to tell the difference between the extreme rhetoric.

 

Vermin?  lol.  He's an ass in a seat in a minority government but go off

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, bolt said:

Trudeau is a classic narcissist.  

And what is Pierre?

 

If you're familiar with personality traits or disorders you should probably be able to pick out Pierre's very quickly.

[bolt]

Just now, Warhippy said:

And what is Pierre?

 

If you're familiar with personality traits or disorders you should probably be able to pick out Pierre's very quickly.

The enviable "what about" Ted talk from the Trudeau cult.  

[bolt]

4 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Congratulations.

 

You're now no better than Heffy.

 

Just start calling them nazis and you won't have us able to tell the difference between the extreme rhetoric.

 

Vermin?  lol.  He's an ass in a seat in a minority government but go off

The language King heffy understands.

Edited July 7 by bolt

[Satchmo]

Just now, bolt said:

The enviable "what about" Ted talk from the Trudeau cult.  

Just wondering how that really differs from your posts apart from the subject of the derision.

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, bolt said:

The enviable "what about" Ted talk from the Trudeau cult.  

 

We should all probably be asking "what about PP", as JT is done like dinner.

 

PP is all that matters now as he will be the next PM. 

 

I think the NDP is the only party that has got anything done lately. They should get a crack at the helm, but they wont.

The Cons are soo full of anger and PP has been in gov for a long time with a pretty weak track record from what I am hearing. Still they have the support, so they will be the next party put to the fire. So, again, we do neeed to ask...'what about PP?'