Canadian Politics Thread

[The Arrogant Worms]

Editorial: Poilievre is truly great — at pandering

 

https://niagaranow.com/opinion.phtml/editorial-poilievre-is-truly-great-at-pandering/

 

Pierre Poilievre made a stop in Niagara-on-the-Lake last Thursday.

 

Here is a leader who at first might seem informed, capable of holding rational arguments and making good points.

 

But what he’s really the best at is pandering, lying and misleading.

 

He panders to a crowd that’s so anti-Liberal, they’re willing to eat up and digest anything he says. He’s hoping that voters so dislike Justin Trudeau that they won’t see beyond his simplistic, bumper-sticker rhetoric.

 

Here are a few examples of just how good Poilievre is at spinning webs of lies that sound, to the ill-informed, like truth.

Edited August 16 by The Arrogant Worms

[Gurn]

16 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Editorial: Poilievre is truly great — at pandering

 

https://niagaranow.com/opinion.phtml/editorial-poilievre-is-truly-great-at-pandering/

 

Pierre Poilievre made a stop in Niagara-on-the-Lake last Thursday.

 

Here is a leader who at first might seem informed, capable of holding rational arguments and making good points.

 

But what he’s really the best at is pandering, lying and misleading.

 

He panders to a crowd that’s so anti-Liberal, they’re willing to eat up and digest anything he says. He’s hoping that voters so dislike Justin Trudeau that they won’t see beyond his simplistic, bumper-sticker rhetoric.

 

Here are a few examples of just how good Poilievre is at spinning webs of lies that sound, to the ill-informed, like truth.

Good read, thanks.

This Canadian version of the 'galloping gish' is eerily similar  to down in the states.

[bolt]

If Mark Carney is chosen as Liberal Leader; does he require to be a MP before being appointed as the Prime Minister? 

[The Arrogant Worms]

Alberta Premier Smith says legislation on school pronouns coming after September

EDMONTON — Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says her government will introduce legislation on pronouns in schools after classes begin in September

 

https://www.timescolonist.com/national-news/alberta-premier-smith-says-legislation-on-school-pronouns-coming-after-september-9357363

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, bolt said:

If Mark Carney is chosen as Liberal Leader; does he require to be a MP before being appointed as the Prime Minister? 

Singh took leadership of the federal NDP for over a full calendar year without a riding.  Passing up on no less than 3-4 by-elections to get one in the safest possible ridings.  

 

As such I see no reason Carney couldn't take over and lead the party without being an MP.

 

For what it's worth, for years I've called Singh a terrible leader and a coward for not stepping up in every by-election to show people he was not afraid and to give the NDP a voice in the house.

[the destroyer of worlds]

2 hours ago, bolt said:

If Mark Carney is chosen as Liberal Leader; does he require to be a MP before being appointed as the Prime Minister? 

 

40 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Singh took leadership of the federal NDP for over a full calendar year without a riding.  Passing up on no less than 3-4 by-elections to get one in the safest possible ridings.  

 

As such I see no reason Carney couldn't take over and lead the party without being an MP.

 

For what it's worth, for years I've called Singh a terrible leader and a coward for not stepping up in every by-election to show people he was not afraid and to give the NDP a voice in the house.

If/when JT resigns, there will be an interm  PM.  

 

A non Member of Parliament can be PM, but there are some duties that they wouldn't be able to do as they are not a MP.  What would likely happen is a by election would happen ASAP or the interm PM would call an election so the new leader could get elected.   I see the latter happening.  

[Bob Long]

8 hours ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

 

If/when JT resigns, there will be an interm  PM.  

 

A non Member of Parliament can be PM, but there are some duties that they wouldn't be able to do as they are not a MP.  What would likely happen is a by election would happen ASAP or the interm PM would call an election so the new leader could get elected.   I see the latter happening.  

 

Ministers in our system don't have to be elected first, so Carney for eg could become finance minister tomorrow if he wanted the job.

[Bob Long]

9 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Alberta Premier Smith says legislation on school pronouns coming after September

EDMONTON — Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says her government will introduce legislation on pronouns in schools after classes begin in September

 

https://www.timescolonist.com/national-news/alberta-premier-smith-says-legislation-on-school-pronouns-coming-after-september-9357363

 

Can we make Alberta separate? 

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, Spiked Alia said:

 

I strongly disagree with you. 

 

1. Fiscal Responsibility under Conservative Governments

• Stephen Harper's Conservative Government (2006-2015): The Harper government navigated Canada through the 2008 global financial crisis better than most other G7 nations. Under Harper, Canada maintained a relatively strong fiscal position, avoiding the worst of the global recession. By 2015, the government achieved a balanced budget, despite having to run temporary deficits during the crisis, which were necessary for economic stability.
• Tax Reductions: The Harper government implemented significant tax cuts, including the reduction of the GST from 7% to 5%, which put more money back in the hands of Canadians. This was done without significantly increasing the national debt.

2. Criticism of Liberal Fiscal Management

• Trudeau's Deficit Spending (2015-Present): Since taking office in 2015, Justin Trudeau’s Liberal government has run substantial deficits annually, even before the COVID-19 pandemic. The 2015 election promise of small, temporary deficits of $10 billion per year quickly turned into much larger deficits, with no clear plan to return to a balanced budget. As a result, Canada’s national debt has significantly increased under Trudeau.
• Fiscal Projections and Reality: The Trudeau government’s early budgets projected a return to balanced budgets by 2019. However, the government failed to meet these projections, and the deficits continued to grow, raising concerns about long-term fiscal sustainability.

 

3. Reduction of Debt-to-GDP Ratio: Under Conservative governments, there has often been a focus on reducing the debt-to-GDP ratio, an important indicator of fiscal health. For example, the Harper government consistently worked to keep Canada’s debt-to-GDP ratio lower than that of many other developed nations.

 

Harper was not great for our economy. 

 

https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/october-2016/economic-performance-and-policy-during-the-harper-years/

 

After 2010, however, in the face of a persistently slow recovery of demand, the Harper government unduly sacrificed economic growth, in particular public investment, in order to improve a debt position that was already solid.

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, Spiked Alia said:

 

I can debate at LENGTH on this but will try and keep it short. I can expand on this if you'd like, time permitting:

While critics may argue that Harper's focus on deficit reduction after 2010 slowed economic growth, the long-term benefits of maintaining fiscal stability and preventing excessive debt accumulation are significant. The decision to prioritize fiscal discipline ensured that Canada remained resilient and well-positioned to handle future economic challenges.

 

Long-Term Fiscal Stability

• Preventing Long-Term Debt Accumulation: The Harper government's decision to prioritize reducing the deficit and stabilizing the debt-to-GDP ratio after 2010 can be seen as a prudent measure to ensure long-term fiscal stability. While short-term public investment might boost immediate growth, unchecked deficits can lead to unsustainable debt levels, limiting future governments' ability to respond to economic crises. By focusing on fiscal responsibility, Harper's government positioned Canada to better withstand future economic shocks, such as the COVID-19 pandemic.

2. Global Economic Context

• Global Austerity Trends: After the 2008 financial crisis, many countries, including those in Europe, adopted austerity measures to manage rising debt levels. The Harper government’s approach was in line with global trends where fiscal restraint was necessary to maintain investor confidence and ensure economic stability. This helped Canada maintain a strong credit rating and low borrowing costs, which are crucial for long-term economic health.

3. Selective Public Investment

• Targeted Stimulus Programs: Although the Harper government focused on deficit reduction after 2010, it did not entirely neglect public investment. For example, the Economic Action Plan introduced during the recession included significant investments in infrastructure, job creation, and tax relief. These measures were designed to stimulate the economy without leading to unsustainable long-term debt.

4. Economic Resilience

• Relatively Strong Economic Performance: Despite the global economic challenges, Canada under Harper maintained relatively strong economic fundamentals compared to other G7 nations. The unemployment rate remained lower than in many other advanced economies, and Canada’s banking sector, bolstered by conservative fiscal policies, emerged as one of the strongest in the world.
• Energy Sector Growth: During Harper’s tenure, the energy sector, particularly oil and gas, saw significant growth, contributing to Canada’s overall economic performance. This sector helped balance the economy during a period when other industries were struggling due to global economic conditions.

5. Criticism of Alternatives

• Potential Consequences of High Debt: If Harper’s government had chosen to continue high levels of public spending without addressing the deficit, it could have led to a much higher debt-to-GDP ratio, increasing the risk of a fiscal crisis in the future. The choice to focus on debt reduction can be defended as a strategy to avoid such a scenario.

6. Post-Harper Economic Performance

• Comparison with Trudeau’s Deficits: Following Harper’s tenure, the Trudeau government increased deficit spending, leading to a significant rise in the national debt. This raises questions about the long-term sustainability of such an approach, especially in light of potential future economic downturns. Harper’s approach to maintaining fiscal discipline could be argued as a more sustainable long-term strategy compared to the Liberal approach of running large deficits.

 

Please quote the source of where you are posting this from.

[King Heffy]

29 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Please quote the source of where you are posting this from.

Not sure if posting a picture of his own posterior would be allowed.

[Warhippy]

Lol what the shit did I just walk into ?

 

Nope.  Absolutely not nope.  

 

[RupertKBD]

14 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Editorial: Poilievre is truly great — at pandering

 

https://niagaranow.com/opinion.phtml/editorial-poilievre-is-truly-great-at-pandering/

 

Pierre Poilievre made a stop in Niagara-on-the-Lake last Thursday.

 

Here is a leader who at first might seem informed, capable of holding rational arguments and making good points.

 

But what he’s really the best at is pandering, lying and misleading.

 

He panders to a crowd that’s so anti-Liberal, they’re willing to eat up and digest anything he says. He’s hoping that voters so dislike Justin Trudeau that they won’t see beyond his simplistic, bumper-sticker rhetoric.

 

Here are a few examples of just how good Poilievre is at spinning webs of lies that sound, to the ill-informed, like truth.

 

Now I kinda wish that editor was running for PM....

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Spiked Alia said:

 

Here are a few resources that discuss Stephen Harper’s economic policies and the broader context of his tenure as Prime Minister of Canada:

1. Books and Academic Papers:

   • "Right Here, Right Now: Politics and Leadership in the Age of Disruption" by Stephen Harper: In this book, Harper himself discusses his approach to governance, including economic policies and the importance of fiscal discipline.
   • "Harper's World: Politics and Power in the Conservative Decade" edited by Jennifer Ditchburn and Graham Fox: This book provides a comprehensive overview of Harper's decade in power, including economic strategies and their impact.

2. Articles and Reports:

   • The Fraser Institute: The Fraser Institute often publishes reports and articles on Canadian economic policies, including those of the Harper government. Their research tends to emphasize the benefits of fiscal conservatism and may provide data on the outcomes of Harper's policies.
   • Maclean’s Magazine: Maclean’s has published numerous articles over the years evaluating Harper’s economic performance, including his focus on fiscal restraint and the impact of his policies on Canada’s economy.
   • The Globe and Mail: As one of Canada’s leading newspapers, The Globe and Mail offers in-depth coverage and analysis of Canadian politics and economics, including Harper’s tenure. Search their archives for specific pieces on Harper’s fiscal policies.

3. Government and Economic Reports:

   • Department of Finance Canada: Government reports from Harper’s time in office may provide insights into the economic decisions made by his administration, including budget documents and fiscal updates.
   • Bank of Canada Reports: The Bank of Canada’s reports from the period can offer context on the broader economic environment in which Harper’s policies were implemented, including discussions of debt-to-GDP ratios and fiscal stability.

4. Think Tanks and Policy Centers:

   • C.D. Howe Institute: This think tank often produces research on Canadian economic policy, including the effects of fiscal policy during Harper’s government.
   • Institute for Research on Public Policy (IRPP): The IRPP provides balanced analysis on Canadian public policy and could have studies or papers evaluating Harper’s economic decisions and their long-term impact.

The key ideas are consistent with well-documented aspects of Harper’s policies, such as:

1. Harper’s Focus on Fiscal Discipline: This is widely recognized in discussions of his tenure, particularly his government's emphasis on reducing the deficit and stabilizing Canada’s debt-to-GDP ratio after the 2008 financial crisis.

2. Global Economic Context and Austerity: Many countries, including Canada, adopted more conservative fiscal policies post-2008 to avoid excessive debt accumulation, which was part of the global trend of austerity.

3. Targeted Stimulus Programs: Harper’s government did introduce the Economic Action Plan, which included infrastructure investment and other measures to stimulate the economy during the recession.

4. Economic Resilience: Canada’s relatively strong economic performance, particularly the stability of its banking sector and the growth of the energy sector, is well-documented during Harper’s tenure.

5. Criticism of High Debt: The potential risks associated with high levels of public debt are a common point of discussion in economic policy debates, particularly among fiscal conservatives.

 

Clam AI 

[King Heffy]

7 minutes ago, Spiked Alia said:

1.  

@King Heffy - Well, King Heffy, I guess my ‘ass’ is well-read! But seriously, if my sources are this solid, maybe it’s time to reconsider where I’m getting my information. Happy to share the reading list anytime!

They're more of a liquid consistency; the term you're looking for is verbal diarrhea.

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, Spiked Alia said:

 

Ah, King Heffy, if my arguments are ‘verbal diarrhea,’ then I must be flushing out some serious truth! But hey, at least it’s backed by facts and not just hot air. Ready to dive into the debate, or are we sticking with the bathroom humour?

I stopped finding arguing with computers entertaining years ago with Clippy in MS Word.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

I stopped finding arguing with computers entertaining years ago with Clippy in MS Word.

 

Clippy  omg, we're arguing with Clippy. 

[King Heffy]

17 minutes ago, Spiked Alia said:

 

The real reason why you won't debate me is because you know that I'm right with almost everything that I'm saying (I'm being modest here).

 

You can't debate me, and you're too proud to admit that you're a defeated man.

 

I get it bro.

 

edit - and now fellow defeated poster Bob Long has jumped into save you. It's like 90's WWE when Austin is beating Hunter Hearst Helmsley and the ref goes for the 3 count but Chyna comes in for the rescue and places Hunter's leg on the ropes to avoid the 3 count. LOL!

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Heffy, Bob and a computer walked into an argument...

 

Hippy said fuck this, I ain't doing this bullshit...

 

Rupert trying real hard to blame everything on Petey...

 

Bishop already took the computer out with an MMA kick to the head...

 

Stawns is still trying to figure out what type of computer it is...

 

Meanwhile, Petey is enjoying his vacation and just sitting back and enjoying all the fun...   

 

 

[Coconuts]

18 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

we're in good alignment on all that. 

 

One of the disappointments for me with the Trudeau years is there was so much promise of fostering new industry, but it has just been more of the same model we've had for such a long time. Take defence, e.g.. We could have easily invested so much more in our own military manufacturing, but it's just so much easier to buy from the US. Same pattern in most health products. 

 

Some of the discussions I was reading and adding to with the centre ice stuff was around this topic and I was happy to see it included in their initial platform ideas, they at least seem to get it from that pov.

 

I will stick with the Libs probably for one more election cycle particularly if Carney takes over, but tbh I'm ready to switch to try something new when they field a local candidate in my riding. 

 

 

It'd be interesting to see a party push in-country manufacturing more, not just in regards to military, but in general. 

 

Unfortunately it probably won't matter how I vote while I'm up here, I get the sense this area leans pretty conservative, but I'll probably continue to vote NDP.

 

But yeah, I'd welcome a centrist party with fresh ideas. 

[Coconuts]

16 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

A former Progressive Conservative who calls Pierre Poilievre ‘terrifying’ is launching a new political party

A new political party will appear on the ballot in two upcoming by-elections as the Canadian Future Party seeks to introduce itself officially as a centrist option for voters it argues are growing weary of an increasingly polarized environment.

 

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/a-former-progressive-conservative-who-calls-pierre-poilievre-terrifying-is-launching-a-new-political-party/article_4d9956a0-5987-11ef-9f45-232cb62f5150.html

 

Good news, I welcome this. Assuming it's a different new party than the one Bob and I were discussing. 

 

More options is better, a broader spectrum of political options is good. 

 

Hell, some of Canada's best bits have come from minority governments so if we someday reach a political climate where votes are more spread out than that may not be the worst thing. 

[Coconuts]

I've always been baffled that folks would sign up on a hockey forum to post almost exclusively in the off-topic areas, both here and on CDC. It's strange. 

[The Arrogant Worms]

7 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I've always been baffled that folks would sign up on a hockey forum to post almost exclusively in the off-topic areas, both here and on CDC. It's strange. 

When 1 troll leaves another magical appears.

[King Heffy]

18 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

It'd be interesting to see a party push in-country manufacturing more, not just in regards to military, but in general. 

 

Unfortunately it probably won't matter how I vote while I'm up here, I get the sense this area leans pretty conservative, but I'll probably continue to vote NDP.

 

But yeah, I'd welcome a centrist party with fresh ideas. 

I'd much rather we export fewer raw materials and start adding value in the supply chain, even if we have to subsidize the building of the industry.  Let's build more refineries to start with.

[RupertKBD]

20 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I've always been baffled that folks would sign up on a hockey forum to post almost exclusively in the off-topic areas, both here and on CDC. It's strange. 

 

It's almost as if they've been here before and already know about it.....