The Lock Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 2 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: While I sympathize with your reality, it's clear this isn't the norm. "In June, the employment rate fell to 46.8 per cent for returning students aged 15 to 24. Outside of June 2020, during the first year of the COVID-19 pandemic, that is the lowest rate for that age demographic since 1998. "This marks a notable decline from the recent high of 53.7 per cent observed in June 2022," the Statistics Canada survey says. "This indicates that students are facing more difficulties finding work as they enter the summer job market." https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/young-people-looking-for-jobs-are-facing-an-uphill-battle-according-to-statistics-canada-data-1.6953471 The "lowest since" does not mean it wasn't low before, it just means it's been lower lately. ' Believe me, I'm going through issues both now and back then. I haven't had the greatest time with getting jobs, but if you're going to give me a number to just say now's worse... that has nothing to do about saying it wasn't bad during Harper's government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bishopshodan Posted August 26 Popular Post Share Posted August 26 (edited) 34 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: Ah yes.....every day seems to have it's "low hanging fruit"..... I see that today's is that good old standby: Immigrants taking our jobs! Being an immigrant, I'm kinda a big fan of Immigrants. I havent read all the posts, but is that what the convo has turned to? I thought we were talking about Gurns original point For example : Timmy's revenue keeps going up, year over year. Why do they get to use TFW? If it's because they cant find any Canadian citizens to hire, raise the wages. As I have already mentioned profits are just going up, so they could pay more. Or if they have to take a cut at the top to do that, take a cut. Thats the challenge of business to me. Why are we proping up the big corps? Edit: read some posts...if were talking skilled workers like the needs in healthcare. I support that. Edited August 26 by bishopshodan 2 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 12 minutes ago, The Lock said: Like I said earlier, part of me agrees with you, but it's more complicated than just "remove the TFW" or something. If you don't care about the businesses themselves hiring these workers, then you might as well not care about the situation at all. The businesses are ultimately who you want to hire the workers; therefore it's important to put yourself in their shoes if you want to show any understanding at all of the situation. Also, if your idea is to "let them fix it", then don't expect anything to be solved. I agree, I just don't feel like many of these businesses are struggling and need to turn to TFW's. Just abusing the program is all I see. I'm also not saying just let them fix it. I'm saying if their business plan is failing, then they probably deserve to go out of business 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 8 minutes ago, The Lock said: The "lowest since" does not mean it wasn't low before, it just means it's been lower lately. ' Believe me, I'm going through issues both now and back then. I haven't had the greatest time with getting jobs, but if you're going to give me a number to just say now's worse... that has nothing to do about saying it wasn't bad during Harper's government. I think the fact you have to go all the way back to 1998 should be some cause for concern... Two things can be right at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 10 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Being an immigrant, I'm kinda a big fan of Immigrants. I havent read all the posts, but is that what the convo has turned to? I thought we were talking about Gurns original point For example : Timmy's revenue keeps going up, year over year. Why do they get to use TFW? If it's because they cant find any Canadian citizens to hire, raise the wages. As I have already mentioned profits are just going up, so they could pay more. Or if they have to take a cut at the top to do that, take a cut. Thats the challenge of business to me. Why are we proping up the big corps? Edit: read some posts...if were talking skilled workers like the needs in healthcare. I support that. Your post says basically everything I have been trying to convey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: I agree, I just don't feel like many of these businesses are struggling and need to turn to TFW's. Just abusing the program is all I see. I'm also not saying just let them fix it. I'm saying if their business plan is failing, then they probably deserve to go out of business So, in my opinion, unless if they're actually causing harm in some way, I fundamentally don't believe anyone truly "deserves" to go out of business. 95% of businesses ultimately fail in the 1st 5 years and a business failing does potentially cause hardship for the owner and employees. Assuming that a business fails because of a poor business plan ignores when it's not actually the business plan failing them. Edited August 26 by The Lock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 Just now, The Lock said: So, in my opinion, unless if they're actually causing harm in some way, I fundamentally don't believe anyone truly "deserves" to go out of business. 95% of businesses ultimately fail in the 1st 5 years and a business failing does potentially cause hardship for the owner. Assuming that a business fails because of a poor business plan ignores when it's not actually the business plan failing them. Maybe the use of the word "deserve" is a little harsh and I don't really mean that I guess. But if your business relies on paying people shit wages just to scrape and get by, it's hard for me to feel too bad. The exception is obviously small local business owners. I understand how tough those early years are. My argument is mostly in regards to the Tim Hortons and Walmarts of the world 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 3 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: I think the fact you have to go all the way back to 1998 should be some cause for concern... Two things can be right at once. I'm not saying it's not a cause for concern. Look. I get it. You only care about bashing Trudeau. Anything beyond that you don't care about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Ravioli Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 (edited) 5 minutes ago, The Lock said: I'm not saying it's not a cause for concern. Look. I get it. You only care about bashing Trudeau. Anything beyond that you don't care about. I haven't mentioned Trudeau or the liberals once? I posted an article stating how bad it is currently? I mean there's obviously a reason they are making changes to the program but I haven't even touched on that Edited August 26 by Ricky Ravioli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 8 minutes ago, Ricky Ravioli said: I haven't mentioned Trudeau or the liberals once? I posted an article stating how bad it is currently? I mean there's obviously a reason they are making changes to the program but I haven't even touched on that It was an assumption on my part. I'm obviously a little worked up from a having a lack of work and it's hard not to make such assumptions these days. I feel I could so as mention Trump to a Trumper and suddenly they're bashing Trudeau assuming I even care about the guy so it's hard not to make such assumptions at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bishopshodan Posted August 26 Popular Post Share Posted August 26 28 minutes ago, The Lock said: So, in my opinion, unless if they're actually causing harm in some way, I fundamentally don't believe anyone truly "deserves" to go out of business. 95% of businesses ultimately fail in the 1st 5 years and a business failing does potentially cause hardship for the owner and employees. Assuming that a business fails because of a poor business plan ignores when it's not actually the business plan failing them. Just want to point out that the companies using TFW are not the businesses you are thinking of, for the most part. https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/business/2024/08/12/cheap-foreign-labor-soars-in-canada-as-young-workers-are-left-jobless/#:~:text=Collectively%2C major restaurant and retail,numbered companies in government data. Collectively, major restaurant and retail chains make up the biggest group of employers using the program to hire these types of workers, but their reliance on the system is impossible to quantify due to the rampant use of numbered companies in government data. In Ontario alone, Tim Hortons hired at least 714 temporary foreign workers last year, up from 58 in 2019. But some 92% of those positions in 2023 were listed under holding companies that didn’t bear the franchise name. 2 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 Bank of Canada Seen Cutting Rates Deeper, Faster Over Next Year https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bank-canada-seen-cutting-rates-160111298.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post aGENT Posted August 26 Popular Post Share Posted August 26 2 hours ago, Bob Long said: not "fearful" just don't like to see a local restaurant have to go out of business, if its avoidable. We'll just end up with shitty chains and McD's. 1 hour ago, bishopshodan said: The major retail and restaurant chains are the ones using the cheap foreign workers though. Not so much the local restaurants. Exactly. "Shitty chains" are the worst offenders. A lot of them owned by corporations that also own the real estate they house the TFW's in, and get back a large chunk of their wages in rent. It's ridiculous. As is the sentiment this is about "anti-immigration" I'm pro immigration. We need those folks to prop up our aging/declining population and economy, in health care etc. I'm however not pro abuse of TFW programs to pad the profits of corporations while suppressing wages to actual Canadians, and exploiting immigrants. Many of whom deal with outright abuse from the those employers out of fear of being deported if they don't just shut up and do what they're told. 1 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: I'm however not pro abuse of TFW programs to pad the profits of corporations while suppressing wages to actual Canadians, and exploiting immigrants. Many of whom deal with outright abuse from the those employers out of fear of being deported if they don't just shut up and do what they're told. And so this is why it's important to call out the bad actors, like @bishopshodan did with the bloomberg quote: 12 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: In Ontario alone, Tim Hortons hired at least 714 temporary foreign workers last year, up from 58 in 2019. But some 92% of those positions in 2023 were listed under holding companies that didn’t bear the franchise name. In those types of cases, the government should come down hard on the companies that abuse the program. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 6 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said: And so this is why it's important to call out the bad actors, like @bishopshodan did with the bloomberg quote: In those types of cases, the government should come down hard on the companies that abuse the program. They absolutely should. How long should I hold my breath for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 5 minutes ago, aGENT said: They absolutely should. How long should I hold my breath for? Depends - did you donate to the political parties and/or lobby the government harder than those numbered companies? (yes, I'm being facetious - but it does show a gap in policy and enforcement that really should be bridged) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 2 hours ago, RupertKBD said: It's South Africa where I live....at least 50% of our doctors.... That was the wave before the Philippines, with a lot of docs. My dad had an awesome gp in Saskatchewan from SA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 1 hour ago, Ricky Ravioli said: I'm pro making sure our citizens have access to entry level jobs when they need the work experience or extra funds. Young people aren't the only people who need access to the health care system, so I fail to understand your position here You're blaming tfws for healthcare pressure, I'm saying prove it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 46 minutes ago, aGENT said: Exactly. "Shitty chains" are the worst offenders. A lot of them owned by corporations that also own the real estate they house the TFW's in, and get back a large chunk of their wages in rent. It's ridiculous. As is the sentiment this is about "anti-immigration" I'm pro immigration. We need those folks to prop up our aging/declining population and economy, in health care etc. I'm however not pro abuse of TFW programs to pad the profits of corporations while suppressing wages to actual Canadians, and exploiting immigrants. Many of whom deal with outright abuse from the those employers out of fear of being deported if they don't just shut up and do what they're told. Like I said, government is a blunt instrument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 57 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Just want to point out that the companies using TFW are not the businesses you are thinking of, for the most part. https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/business/2024/08/12/cheap-foreign-labor-soars-in-canada-as-young-workers-are-left-jobless/#:~:text=Collectively%2C major restaurant and retail,numbered companies in government data. Collectively, major restaurant and retail chains make up the biggest group of employers using the program to hire these types of workers, but their reliance on the system is impossible to quantify due to the rampant use of numbered companies in government data. In Ontario alone, Tim Hortons hired at least 714 temporary foreign workers last year, up from 58 in 2019. But some 92% of those positions in 2023 were listed under holding companies that didn’t bear the franchise name. 714? That's what we are arguing about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 17 minutes ago, Bob Long said: 714? That's what we are arguing about? Who's arguing? Cant help point out that those stats were from one company and one province though. I think we were just generally talking about the concept... does it make sense, whos using it, and why. Why cant these big profit making companies pay more for these jobs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 16 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Who's arguing? Cant help point out that those stats were from one company and one province though. I think we were just generally talking about the concept... does it make sense, whos using it, and why. Why cant these big profit making companies pay more for these jobs? Why can't people find a different place to work? This is pretty funny tho, those 714 extra people are going to destroy Ontario health care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Just now, Bob Long said: Why can't people find a different place to work? This is pretty funny tho, those 714 extra people are going to destroy Ontario health care From my post at the top of the page "if were talking skilled workers like the needs in healthcare. I support that." Do you think the 714 Tim Horton's employees are working in healthcare? I'm confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 3 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Why can't people find a different place to work? But the big corps could pay more for those low level jobs. They're making mad profit. And if Canadians had those jobs, wouldnt we have a bit more housing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 7 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: From my post at the top of the page "if were talking skilled workers like the needs in healthcare. I support that." Do you think the 714 Tim Horton's employees are working in healthcare? I'm confused. Just referring to Ricky's comments on tws and healthcare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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