Canadian Politics Thread

[Optimist Prime]

15 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

According to the MDI model (material deprivation index) adopted by Food Banks if a respondent can’t buy gifts or celebrate a holiday combined with one other item such as dental they are considered living under the poverty line. 
 

These are the 11 items in the index, any 3 of which classify one  as materially deprived. Turns out I spent half my life “under the poverty line” without even knowing it.

 

 

The data is a valuable tool, but the conclusion is predictably skewed towards the careers that support the people who published the study. It is kind of obvious. They had a conclusion and sought data to prove it, you know, the opposite of the scientific method.

[Optimist Prime]

10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Pretty sure if you can't afford to go to the dentist, take the bus, buy a pair of shoes, buy a gift for a friend's birthday, have $500 in reserve in the bank, buy a new shirt, have heating in your home, or pay your TELUS phone bill, you would be considered living in poverty by most people...

The part I am critical of is the findings are not at all supported by the methodology of the study.

 

"I asked 100 parrot food buyers why they aren't buying dogfood, somehow equalled dogs are too expensive for 25% of Canadians."

 

What I mean is the survey was done by food bank users, and somehow extrapolated to come up with 1 in 4 Canadians are living below the poverty line. In fairness though even the headline of the article and it is echoed deeper in the story where the director says "May be" lol. 

 

Good study, for a grade 4 science Faire.

[4petesake]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Pretty sure if you can't afford to go to the dentist, take the bus, buy a pair of shoes, buy a gift for a friend's birthday, have $500 in reserve in the bank, buy a new shirt, have heating in your home, or pay your TELUS phone bill, you would be considered living in poverty by most people...

 

Absolutely, but answer yes to any three puts you on the list.

 

Eat meat or fish every second day. Not even close.

Keep your room or house at a comfortable temperature. My first rental had a barely working oil heater and no air.

Able to buy gifts. Couldn’t even think about it until the bills were paid.

 

There, I was on the list for my first few years on my own and didn’t know I was poor.

 

 

[The Arrogant Worms]

Every McDonalds I see here on the Island is jammed packed.

 

I guess people can  afford it.

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

Absolutely, but answer yes to any three puts you on the list.

 

Eat meat or fish every second day. Not even close.

Keep your room or house at a comfortable temperature. My first rental had a barely working oil heater and no air.

Able to buy gifts. Couldn’t even think about it until the bills were paid.

 

There, I was on the list for my first few years on my own and didn’t know I was poor.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, if you answered yes to those 3 questions, me and all my friends would have considered you poor.  Not trying to be disrespectful, but just being honest.  I am sure you got out of your situation to live a better life, but the truth is that 25% of the population would answer yes to those questions.  And in a country where we are supposed to be better off than the rest of the world, it's a pretty sad state of affairs that so many people would answer yes to those questions.  

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

42 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Look at the massive reduction in prices at the pumps we were promised!  Look at it!  Just look!!

 

Ohh wait, nm it didn't even happen.

 

Ya, we all talked about this.  We knew it was gonna happen.  Can only fit one tanker through there at a shot.  So ya, good times.

 

Still pro pipeline though.

 

I can't say I'm for or against the pipeline, as once the government decided to turn it into their pet project, there was not much else anyone for or against it could do.

 

But I will say that the absence of a spill mitigation plan that has been updated to reflect the reality of the inlet now that the pipeline is ramping up to full capacity is definitely cause for alarm and concern.  If the feds don't come up with one, it'll only be a matter of time that an avoidable spill of significant size forces their hand.  But when that happens, the consequences will be longstanding and catastrophic.

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I never said the Cons had a plan.  I don't think anyone can fix this mess Bob.  We are fooked...

 

Nah, we are not. It's a hard problem but it's being addressed. 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Ricky Ravioli said:

And now grade 12 students can't even get one job... Talk about irony there.

Hey man, that's awesome that you were able to do all that. You obviously did good for yourself. You are fooling yourself if you think poverty in this country isn't serious growing concern though 

 

Like, any grade 12 students?

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Nah, we are not. It's a hard problem but it's being addressed. 

 

Again, going back to my point about the end of the baby boomers........this was always going to be a major rough patch in the evolution of our society.  This society was built by them and for them, with little thought of how we would transition beyond them.  

[Bob Long]

Just now, stawns said:

 

Again, going back to my point about the end of the baby boomers........this was always going to be a major rough patch in the evolution of our society.  This society was built by them and for them, with little thought of how we would transition beyond them.  

 

We screwed the kids because the equity bubble was like crack. No one was going to turn down an extra million or more on their west side home. 

[4petesake]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Unfortunately, if you answered yes to those 3 questions, me and all my friends would have considered you poor.  Not trying to be disrespectful, but just being honest.  I am sure you got out of your situation to live a better life, but the truth is that 25% of the population would answer yes to those questions.  And in a country where we are supposed to be better off than the rest of the world, it's a pretty sad state of affairs that so many people would answer yes to those questions.  

 

No worries, I don’t consider it disrespectful. 
I also never considered myself poor just because I didn’t check three boxes on somebody’s list. I had a job, a nice car, a roof over my head,  the girl of my dreams, and the opportunity to move to a place where I could get ahead. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, 4petesake said:

 

No worries, I don’t consider it disrespectful. 
I also never considered myself poor just because I didn’t check three boxes on somebody’s list. I had a job, a nice car, a roof over my head,  the girl of my dreams, and the opportunity to move to a place where I could get ahead. 

You lived the Canadian dream. Like many others. It’s a beautiful thing really. 
 

I’m sure you’d want that dream for all the kids today right?  Unfortunately most will never live that dream. 
 

There is lots of blame to go around no doubt. But the dream is dead for a lot of people unfortunately. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

We screwed the kids because the equity bubble was like crack. No one was going to turn down an extra million or more on their west side home. 

That’s the reality Bob. When house prices were doubling in 5 years homeowners weren’t complaining. They were taking their profits and laughing all the way to the bank. Nobody was complaining at the time. Nobody was thinking about the future. Greed took over for everyone. Nobody complains when they are making money. Only when they lose it. 
 

The sad reality is those same people screwed their kids and their neighbours kids. The only question left for them to answer is was it worth it?  

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Every McDonalds I see here on the Island is jammed packed.

 

I guess people can  afford it.

After talking about it all afternoon, we decided to have McD's for dinner. I am starting to think I fell for low key viral marketing. Hahaha, E P   you own a rotten Ronnie's?

 

Oh and I got the biggest burger on the menu with large fries and coke for 15.60, 2 bucks less than one hours minimum wage.  

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/tanker-traffic-trans-mountain-pipeline-expansion-1.7305702

 

Vancouver tanker traffic rises tenfold after TMX project

Activists, B.C. government concerned about potential oil spill as traffic through Burrard Inlet increases

 

Excerpt 1:

 

Excerpt 2:

 

Increased tanker traffic to the tune of about 1000% increase, but no confirmation of an updated spill mitigation plan.  Nothing bad could possibly come out of that, could it?  

 

 

Just wait until the Cons get in and worsen the problem by slashing the required funding to deal with said catastrophe! Yay! 

 

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I never said the Cons had a plan.  I don't think anyone can fix this mess Bob.  We are fooked...

 

Us regular people could do a LOT. Purchasing habits... likely the biggest one. Less emotional/reactionary voting. Those two things would do a LOT.

 

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I'm not denying it's a rich problem.  The middle class has been shrinking for decades.  I'm not denying that at all.

 

Well I'm glad that we can agree on that point. Now that we agree that rich folk/Neo liberalism is the real problem, let's talk about ways to minimize and/or un-"fook" ourselves.

 

Do you think continuing to vote between moderate Neo Liberal, or extreme Neo Liberal parties will help minimize or reverse our "fookedness"?

 

Do you think voting out the moderate party for the extreme one will help?

 

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I blame government period. 

 

Why? Why are we waiting for the government to save us from ourselves? Governments are slow, ponderous, blunt instruments run by people whose elections are are funded by the same wealthy Neo Liberal trouble makers causing these problems. Why would you rely entirely on them to fix the economic problems ailing us?

 

We agree corporations exist to make money, right? That's what they exist to do,  seek profit. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with that but "we" need to keep them in check with our wallets, laws, regulations etc

 

So realizing that governments are slow, ponderous, blunt instruments funded by Neo Liberal corporations bent on profit, shouldn't we just purchase and vote accordingly?

 

Where's the self responsibility in expecting everything to just get fixed for us?

 

We're the only saviors that will get us unfooked. Flip flopping from moderate to extreme Neo liberalism sure isn't going to help.

 

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

 

 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

That’s the reality Bob. When house prices were doubling in 5 years homeowners weren’t complaining. They were taking their profits and laughing all the way to the bank. Nobody was complaining at the time. Nobody was thinking about the future. Greed took over for everyone. Nobody complains when they are making money. Only when they lose it. 
 

The sad reality is those same people screwed their kids and their neighbours kids. The only question left for them to answer is was it worth it?  

 

Well, Stawns has pointed out that there will be a transfer of wealth when the boomers pass, but that's assuming that they don't spend all that money on retirement and home care.

 

We need to ramp up new models for rentals, leasehold options, and let the developers build a crap ton more units so there's more choices. Probably a deflation in valuation too at some point.

 

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

 

Just wait until the Cons get in and worsen the problem by slashing the required funding to deal with said catastrophe! Yay! 

 

 

Us regular people could do a LOT. Purchasing habits... likely the biggest one. Less emotional/reactionary voting. Those two things would do a LOT.

 

 

Well I'm glad that we can agree on that point. Now that we agree that rich folk/Neo liberalism is the real problem, let's talk about ways to minimize and/or un-"fook" ourselves.

 

Do you think continuing to vote between moderate Neo Liberal, or extreme Neo Liberal parties will help minimize or reverse our "fookedness"?

 

Do you think voting out the moderate party for the extreme one will help?

 

 

Why? Why are we waiting for the government to save us from ourselves? Governments are slow, ponderous, blunt instruments run by people whose elections are are funded by the same wealthy Neo Liberal trouble makers causing these problems. Why would you rely entirely on them to fix the economic problems ailing us?

 

We agree corporations exist to make money, right? That's what they exist to do,  seek profit. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with that but "we" need to keep them in check with our wallets, laws, regulations etc

 

So realizing that governments are slow, ponderous, blunt instruments funded by Neo Liberal corporations bent on profit, shouldn't we just purchase and vote accordingly?

 

Where's the self responsibility in expecting everything to just get fixed for us?

 

We're the only saviors that will get us unfooked. Flip flopping from moderate to extreme Neo liberalism sure isn't going to help.

 

 

I appreciate your take on these things.

 

Oh also I bought loblaws shares, they pay me a 2% dividend, so I was starting to take this personally, lmao...

[4petesake]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You lived the Canadian dream. Like many others. It’s a beautiful thing really. 
 

I’m sure you’d want that dream for all the kids today right?  Unfortunately most will never live that dream. 
 

There is lots of blame to go around no doubt. But the dream is dead for a lot of people unfortunately. 

 

 

Your worldview is a little bleaker than mine I guess.

 

I agree that parts of that dream may be  dead or close to it. As I’ve said before  most gen z’ers will likely never own their own home, at least if they stay in the lower mainland. Then again I changed provinces chasing dreams and still wound up back here so it can be done but definitely more difficult now. 
 

I’m not sure why you think dreams are dead for young people. I have lots of friends with happy kids and grandkids that are on paths to success in different ways and places. They are just learning to dream differently than we did and set different goals. In general they seem just as happy and well-adjusted as we were at those ages and considerably wiser, often with loftier goals.
 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

After talking about it all afternoon, we decided to have McD's for dinner. I am starting to think I fell for low key viral marketing. Hahaha, E P   you own a rotten Ronnie's?

 

Oh and I got the biggest burger on the menu with large fries and coke for 15.60, 2 bucks less than one hours minimum wage.  

Pfttttt, I just got back from the Keg.  I ordered the biggest steak on the menu. It was Bigly. It was so big that I couldn’t even finish it.  

[stawns]

10 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

That’s the reality Bob. When house prices were doubling in 5 years homeowners weren’t complaining. They were taking their profits and laughing all the way to the bank. Nobody was complaining at the time. Nobody was thinking about the future. Greed took over for everyone. Nobody complains when they are making money. Only when they lose it. 
 

The sad reality is those same people screwed their kids and their neighbours kids. The only question left for them to answer is was it worth it?  

 

Certainly screwed gen x and probably the millennials, but the boomers will be gone just as gen Z is hitting the prime of their lives.........in the context of housing, they'll likely be in great shape, depending on immigration numbers

[Bob Long]

14 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

You've got the same access to info I do unfortunately. I'm not even suggesting the NDP (or any other party) have the answer either. Personally I have trouble seeing ANY party that actually represents my political views, in Canada. I'm not sure they exist. Sorry, I don't have the "answers".

 

But I can tell you that whether it be moderate (Liberals) or extreme (Conservative) Neo Liberalism that we've been flip-flopping between for 40+ years, neither of them appear to have any interest in actually repairing the middle class of this country or reversing the effects (wage gaps, affordability etc) of those policies. And a healthy, thriving middle class is the foundation of any economy IMO. The prevailing "fear" that less Neo Liberal economic policies are "pie in the sky" and will "crater the economy" seems to have  less and less teeth every year those very Neo Liberal polices seem to keep... cratering the economy... themselves. But hey, let's keep trying the same things for another 40 years and see if it gets better!

 

I guess I see a couple of things here. The neo lib flip flops have also created one of the best places in the world, that still has a lot of great opportunities in it. So jumping to a new untested system is going to be a big challenge.

 

Housing affordability including rental is the biggest issue imo, I don't think ceo wage gap is that big of a deal and might be a distraction more than anything. 

 

 

14 hours ago, aGENT said:

Now, as you and I have discussed many times, a lot of this also falls on people's purchasing habits (as well as their level of political knowledge). They're arguably bigger problems to solve than who to vote for. But I don't have the answers for that either I'm afraid.

 

 

For sure people do have a lot of power. @Optimist Primewill be happy to know I still go to Loblaws.

 

 

[bishopshodan]

12 hours ago, 4petesake said:

 

No worries, I don’t consider it disrespectful. 
I also never considered myself poor just because I didn’t check three boxes on somebody’s list. I had a job, a nice car, a roof over my head,  the girl of my dreams, and the opportunity to move to a place where I could get ahead. 

 

I guess we were all 'poor' in my day but I also didnt think I was. I moved out at 18 and went to the big city chasing the rock and roll dream.

 

It was a treat for me to buy a 2l coke, a big bean and cheese burrito ( from the corner store) and a pack of smokes all at the same time on payday.

I was  busser in a club and lived off tips. I shared a place with 3 roommates. I remember budgeting for a couple beers on the weekends.

 

Once I found my dream girl, we lived in a bachelor ( 465sq ft) for 5 years! until we could save up for a down payment on our first apt. We never went on trips etc...

 

No cell phones, no new clothes, no eating at restaurants. Pizza was a once a week treat. 

 

The prices are high for homes these days but I dont see too many young folk moving heaven and earth to chase their dreams.

 

That said, I have some very successful nephews and nieces. Not from getting handouts but being raised the right way. I could list their acomplishments but i wont, however I am very proud of them. Its tough out there. 

Edited August 28 by bishopshodan

[Warhippy]

We can not tax the rich!

 

Why?

 

Because...reasons!

 

https://www.business-standard.com/world-news/world-s-top-1-gained-42-trillion-in-a-decade-taxes-at-record-lows-oxfam-124072500348_1.html

 

In the last decade, the wealth of the richest one per cent globally surged by a staggering $42 trillion, news agency AFP reported, citing global non-profit organisation Oxfam. The remarks were released ahead of the G20 summit in Brazil. This gathering, with a focus on imposing higher taxes on the ultra-wealthy, is poised to address this growing disparity, the report noted.

The $42 trillion amassed by the ‘richest’ is nearly 36 times greater than the wealth accumulated by the poorest half of the world’s population. Despite this, billionaires globally have been paying taxes amounting to less than 0.5 per cent of their wealth, Oxfam noted. Nearly 80 per cent of the world’s billionaires reside in G20 countries.

[Warhippy]

And in other news, local BC Conservative candidates in BC's Okanagan Valley are tanking their entire campaigns.

 

Loewen and Boultbee are making waves for all the wrong reasons.

 

The brand is so broken

 

Edited August 28 by Warhippy

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

We can not tax the rich!

 

Why?

 

Because...reasons!

 

https://www.business-standard.com/world-news/world-s-top-1-gained-42-trillion-in-a-decade-taxes-at-record-lows-oxfam-124072500348_1.html

 

In the last decade, the wealth of the richest one per cent globally surged by a staggering $42 trillion, news agency AFP reported, citing global non-profit organisation Oxfam. The remarks were released ahead of the G20 summit in Brazil. This gathering, with a focus on imposing higher taxes on the ultra-wealthy, is poised to address this growing disparity, the report noted.

The $42 trillion amassed by the ‘richest’ is nearly 36 times greater than the wealth accumulated by the poorest half of the world’s population. Despite this, billionaires globally have been paying taxes amounting to less than 0.5 per cent of their wealth, Oxfam noted. Nearly 80 per cent of the world’s billionaires reside in G20 countries.

 

But, but,

 

Space.