Satchmo Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 3 minutes ago, bolt said: I just see a picture of 3 things that are not very good. One is shown twice for some reason. The overall spin is not very good either so that's a fourth thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 13 minutes ago, bolt said: It's not even defensible at this point. The Liberal party is going to be completely wiped out in the next election. My prediction is they will lose official opposition status as well to the NDP. They will be a 3rd rate party whereby, similar to the Liberal party in BC, they will have to make sweeping changes and get new leadership at every level. Simply replacing Trudeau won't be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: It's not even defensible at this point. The Liberal party is going to be completely wiped out in the next election. My prediction is they will lose official opposition status as well to the NDP. They will be a 3rd rate party whereby, similar to the Liberal party in BC, they will have to make sweeping changes and get new leadership at every level. Simply replacing Trudeau won't be enough. If nothing else it will energize all those angry millennial boys, which is great for my pension, ha ha. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 3 minutes ago, Bob Long said: If nothing else it will energize all those angry millennial boys, which is great for my pension, ha ha. Mark Carney will need to start a new party with a new name. Just like in BC, I think the Liberal name is tainted now. Not sure they can even move forward with it to be totally honest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 Can't help but boil it down to this: "when white folks locked down a city against its will for a month, all hell broke loose, but when some brown folks chant words one afternoon, nothing? CANADA IS FUCKED". at the same time, I hate those Hamas and now Hezbollah sympathizers with a passion. I guess if they lock down a city against its will for a month I would certainly support crushing that insurrection if and when it happens. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 22 minutes ago, Satchmo said: True, hate speech is not permitted by our freedom of expression laws. I'm glad to se we are just talking about those who are not permanent residents now (though I'm not sure tear gas can tell the difference). And true, 'Death to Canada' crosses the line. Those are not words I hear in every clip of protesters though. Tear gas is a very underutilized tool I find in Canada, great a dispersing unruly crowds in a hurry and no it can not differentiate. Would have saved $$$$ in damages during the 2011 riots, but were very reluctant to use. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 1 minute ago, Bure_Pavel said: Tear gas is a very underutilized tool I find in Canada, great a dispersing unruly crowds in a hurry and no it can not differentiate. Would have saved $$$$ in damages during the 2011 riots, but were very reluctant to use. Fire hoses and dogs were very effective in Alabama in the 60's so there's that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 20 minutes ago, Satchmo said: I just see a picture of 3 things that are not very good. One is shown twice for some reason. The overall spin is not very good either so that's a fourth thing 95% of the Freedom Convoy were normal people protesting peacefully. The radicals were dealt with, arrested and thrown in jail. Why can't the Trudeau government do the same to the radicals chanting "Death to Canada"? Can you explain that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnkNuk Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: 95% of the Freedom Convoy were normal people protesting peacefully. The radicals were dealt with, arrested and thrown in jail. Why can't the Trudeau government do the same to the radicals chanting "Death to Canada"? Can you explain that? Is there a law against chanting "Death to Canada"? Or does such a chant, as repulsive as it is, fall under the category of free speech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 12 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Mark Carney will need to start a new party with a new name. Just like in BC, I think the Liberal name is tainted now. Not sure they can even move forward with it to be totally honest... I did hear one political consultant predict that Canada may lose its middle politically this election, which is not a good thing . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 3 minutes ago, UnkNuk said: Is there a law against chanting "Death to Canada"? Or does such a chant, as repulsive as it is, fall under the category of free speech? Is chanting "Death to Canada" not considered a death threat? Is a death threat not a criminal offence punishable by up to 5 years in prison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 Just now, Bob Long said: I did hear one political consultant predict that Canada may lose its middle politically this election, which is not a good thing . Yes, we only have left and right now, the centre party has been completely wiped out. Same as BC. That's the problem we face Bob. Carney will need to start a brand new centrist party... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnkNuk Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: Is chanting "Death to Canada" not considered a death threat? Is a death threat not a criminal offence punishable by up to 5 years in prison? Legally speaking, I don't know. Is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RupertKBD Posted October 8 Popular Post Share Posted October 8 2 hours ago, Satchmo said: I watched to the end and could not see the bit that said 'I'm Justin Trudeau and I support this message'. Is there a longer clip? There seems to be some sort of misconception that if you were someone who disagreed with the Ottawa protests, then you must agree with this one.... The two are not mutually exclusive. Oh yes, and anyone seriously making the claim that Trudeau is somehow responsible for this, or that he supports it....you're an idiot.... 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: 95% of the Freedom Convoy were normal people protesting peacefully. The radicals were dealt with, arrested and thrown in jail. Why can't the Trudeau government do the same to the radicals chanting "Death to Canada"? Can you explain that? No, except to point out that it would be the judicial system of the province where the actions took place that would deal with it. Parliament may pass a federal law to deal with it if enough of all parties agree to pass it. In that case the Trudeau government you mention would surely be involved. Maybe it's time to bring back the War Measures Act so Trudeau could do it all by himself. If we are making comparisons between the 'bad actors' of the convoy, and those just convoy participants just exercising their right to peacefully protest, and pro-Palestinian protestors, can we consider how odd it is to think that only a few convoy dudes broke the law but 'Death to Canada' is shouted at ALL pro-Palestinian protests? I would think that if it was such a common refrain you'd have already told us about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 2 minutes ago, UnkNuk said: Legally speaking, I don't know. Is it? I'm not sure either. But I'd love to see Crown Counsel challenge it and find out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 9 minutes ago, UnkNuk said: Is there a law against chanting "Death to Canada"? Or does such a chant, as repulsive as it is, fall under the category of free speech? Hate speech is not free speech. 'Death to Canada' is pretty hateful IMHO. That may sound like I'm agreeing with some of our conservative friends. Not really, because they seem to be talking about all protestors; not just these ninnies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 Shouldn't we wait and actually see what happens federally before deeming the middle wiped out? Seems like hyperbole at this point. Lot of factors are contributing to Cons riding a wave of support right now, and a big one of them one of the same reasons Harper eventually got punted, PM's with term get stale. The pendulum has historically swung back and forth between both parties to varying degrees. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 4 minutes ago, Satchmo said: No, except to point out that it would be the judicial system of the province where the actions took place that would deal with it. Parliament may pass a federal law to deal with it if enough of all parties agree to pass it. In that case the Trudeau government you mention would surely be involved. Maybe it's time to bring back the War Measures Act so Trudeau could do it all by himself. If we are making comparisons between the 'bad actors' of the convoy, and those just convoy participants just exercising their right to peacefully protest, and pro-Palestinian protestors, can we consider how odd it is to think that only a few convoy dudes broke the law but 'Death to Canada' is shouted at ALL pro-Palestinian protests? I would think that if it was such a common refrain you'd have already told us about it. When it comes to terrorism and potential terror attacks, that definitely is the responsibility of the federal government. @Bure_Pavel made a great point when he said that this type of action can lead to a terrorist attack in this country. I fully agree with that. It only takes one nut job to hear "Death to Canada" and then go out and blow up an airport... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Shouldn't we wait and actually see what happens federally before deeming the middle wiped out? Seems like hyperbole at this point. Lot of factors are contributing to Cons riding a wave of support right now, and a big one of them one of the same reasons Harper eventually got punted, PM's with term get stale. The pendulum has historically swung back and forth between both parties to varying degrees. This could have all been avoided if Trudeau had simply stepped down and let someone else run the party. Even Chretien did this when he got stale and his time was up. Term limits would definitely solve this problem. Just like the US, the maximum time should be 8 years and two full terms. Which means Trudeau would have been gone over a year ago... Edited October 8 by Elias Pettersson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said: No just sending them away if they are not permanent residents should do. Free speech does not cover "death to Canada" and "we are terrorists" chants. Maybe a little tear gas next time to break up the flag ripping/burning. Here's the thing: What if they are Canadian citizens? I've seen many studies (granted, they're usually American studies) that suggest that non-citizens are less likely to take part in these sorts of protests than citizens. They don't want to screw up their chances for permanent residency. So what then? Areest? I suppose, but would that make you all happy? Somehow I doubt it. This seems more of a "close the border!" sort of outrage to me..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: This could have all been avoided if Trudeau had simply stepped down and let someone else run the party. Even Chretien did this when he got stale and his time was up. Term limits would definitely solve this problem. Just like the US, the maximum term should be 8 years and two full terms. Which means Trudeau would have been gone over a year ago... It's been a while since I've seen anyone genuinely supporting Trudeau in this thread, the consensus seems to be exactly what you've said for a while. Term limits would help, yes. I just don't see why the Libs currently doing poorly in the polls under a stale candidate has be tied to the middle somehow being wiped out. Will the Cons win the next election? Good chance they do. Would the Libs fare better under a different candidate? Folks have been saying they would around here for a while. But all it'd take is the Cons bungling things Federally enough for the pendulum to swing back the other way during the following election. If anything a loss to the Cons could very well push the Libs closer to the middle, the NDP's done a very good job at getting some of what it wants from their current relationship with the Libs. They may have gotten less if they'd had less influence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 1 minute ago, RupertKBD said: Here's the thing: What if they are Canadian citizens? I've seen many studies (granted, they're usually American studies) that suggest that non-citizens are less likely to take part in these sorts of protests than citizens. They don't want to screw up their chances for permanent residency. So what then? Areest? I suppose, but would that make you all happy? Somehow I doubt it. This seems more of a "close the border!" sort of outrage to me..... You can always detain them and release them. I dont think you can just sit back and ignore this kinda stuff though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: When it comes to terrorism and potential terror attacks, that definitely is the responsibility of the federal government. @Bure_Pavel made a great point when he said that this type of action can lead to a terrorist attack in this country. I fully agree with that. It only takes one nut job to hear "Death to Canada" and then go out and blow up an airport... I can't help but think of our Coutts discussion in regards to terrorism and potential terror attacks but I'll just let it slide lest I get as angry as last time out. It does seem like the width of the fine lines drawn between two events are entirely up to artistic impression and artistic license. Edited October 8 by Satchmo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 11 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Shouldn't we wait and actually see what happens federally before deeming the middle wiped out? Seems like hyperbole at this point. I was just thinking the same thing... 7 days ago our Liberal party leader who is the Prime Minister of Canada enjoyed the individually cast and counted votes of 207 members of Parliament when the Conservative Leader tried to bring him down with a non confidence vote. The Conservative Leader managed 121 votes for his cause. His cause, for those who are unaware is attaining the seat of power in Canada: the Prime Minister job. A week earlier he tried it and the Prime Minister garnered 211 votes of confidence. The news of the Liberal Parties impending demise is at best inaccurate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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