Canadian Politics Thread

[Coconuts]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I don't see it quite the same way but we still share the idea that our social programs are needed and should be carried by the people and businesses that have done well. I don't view it in an us v. them way. We need everyone.

 

The really caustic division and mean way the CPC describes people outside of their circle is going to hurt people who deserve better. But frankly I think a lot of them get off on it.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand that it's a delicate balancing act of sorts. If one wants a healthy economy one also has to weigh the interests of businesses, and of those who drive capital, commerce, and the like, one can't ignore them within a capitalist system. I understand the reality of it, but I also view society as being socially stratified and lean more towards having class solidarity with those whose lived experiences fall into similar brackets, so the lower and middle class. This isn't to say I believe all folks with wealth are terrible people, or that they don't have their own problems, struggles, and whatnot, but I view them as having the resources and capabilities to get by better than those who don't. I do however believe that one typically doesn't garner excessive or exorbitant wealth without exploiting others though. 

 

 

Probably, and I expect that'll be the case if they do win power. 

[Optimist Prime]

41 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

At the very least, Trudeau should denounce and condemn this hate speech against Canada. Did he do this?  No. Did Poilievre do it?  Yes he did. I posted the video. 

 

35 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Concrete proof that JT supports this kind of thing.  Or that PP is out to please his block.   Your choice.

 

Oh, and it seems like only yesterday Trudeau did have something to say...

 

Well that outrage of yours, E.P. lasted a record 6 minutes before being debunked.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

I've said it before, I wish con voters had a party option that wasn't as right, because the current cons have embraced social conservatism and that isn't representative of all con voters. Some folks are simply more conservative fiscally, well, idealistically anyway. I wish Canada has a progressive conservative party of sorts. 

 

Problem being the modern Con party isn't even "fiscally conservative" either. We get the worst mix of social conservatism plus fiscal Neoconservatism (basically socialism for corporations and the wealthy).

 

People can hate Trudeau all they want, but I have no idea how so many people vote for that ^^^^

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

 

Problem being the modern Con party isn't even "fiscally conservative" either. We get the worst mix of social conservatism plus fiscal Neoconservatism (basically socialism for corporations and the wealthy).

 

People can hate Trudeau all they want, but I have no idea how so many people vote for that ^^^^

I am fairly sure we will see rollbacks of social supports, generally affecting families with household income under 100k (most of the households in Canada) including ten dollar a day childcare, allowing women in particular to have and maintain careers without being economically punished for having a kid or kids, stopping dental care for those folks who qualify (700 thousand have already used the dental care system). they will probably seek to end universal pharma care concepts and through pure ideology repeal contraceptives and hygiene products, and perhaps diabetes meds that are already worked into that system. I am also 100% sure we will see a backbench Conservative Members 'private' bill on limiting access to abortion in some way federally. We all know on day one he will axe the carbon rebates along with the tax and any incentives for anyone to make changes to how they use energy that is destroying our planet.  So much more to mention but I will leave it there.. hockey is on anyhow. 

[Coconuts]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Problem being the modern Con party isn't even "fiscally conservative" either. We get the worst mix of social conservatism plus fiscal Neoconservatism (basically socialism for corporations and the wealthy).

 

People can hate Trudeau all they want, but I have no idea how so many people vote for that ^^^^

 

Gotta say, I appreciate you being the only person I regularly speaking to both neoliberalism and neoconservatism. Because yeah, neoconservatives and fiscal conservatism don't have identical views of managing finances. Conservatism itself is nuanced, and there are variations of it, the same can be said of liberalism. 

 

Neither of neoliberalism of neoconservatism are appealing options, social conservatism on the other hand is antithetical to my social beliefs and I can't emphasize how much I loathe the idea of it being pushed under a political banner. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Satchmo said:

Concrete proof that JT supports this kind of thing.  Or that PP is out to please his block.   Your choice.

 

Oh, and it seems like only yesterday Trudeau did have something to say...

 

He was referring to October 7 not what happened in Vancouver in his home country. Nice try though. 

[Satchmo]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

He was referring to October 7 not what happened in Vancouver in his home country. Nice try though. 

From short term memory: Hamas is not a resistance.  They are terrorists.  And no one in Canada should be supporting them much less celebrating them.

 

I did not look at it again but I'm sure I was pretty close.  And I said Trudeau had something to say.  Which he did.   I did not say he was promising deportations (which is very trendy these days) to his potential voters without discussion of details, laws, or logistics.

 

Nice try though.

[Elias Pettersson]

43 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

 

Well that outrage of yours, E.P. lasted a record 6 minutes before being debunked.

Sorry my friend. That video was from yesterday where your BFF was referencing October 7. He said nothing about the actions of the terrorists in his home country that chanted “Death to Canada”. Meanwhile, Pierre Poilievre, your not so BFF, did exactly that. 

[Optimist Prime]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Sorry my friend. That video was from yesterday where your BFF was referencing October 7. He said nothing about the actions of the terrorists in his home country that chanted “Death to Canada”. Meanwhile, Pierre Poilievre, your not so BFF, did exactly that. 

I guess we hear different things depending on what we are listening for. Were not both sound clips from yesterday?

[Bure_Pavel]

1 hour ago, RupertKBD said:

 

So.....you didn't watch the video that @Satchmo posted?

The video is 11 months old.....

[Satchmo]

23 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

The video is 11 months old.....

And I see now - and just now when I had another look - you are correct.  My apologies/my embarrassment.  At first I saw only the day and month.

 

I still feel that JT is no lover of these riff raff protestors.  I still feel PP likely feels the same way but is all tough talk.  It's almost as if he knows what people want to hear the day after such incendiary comments from the protestors, without any talk of laws, due process, and other quite important things.   At this time, you don't have to mention HOW you will accomplish something, you just have to mention you want to do it.

 

EDIT - Yeserday;s response:

 

During question period in Parliament Tuesday, Conservative members repeatedly demanded that Samidoun be added to the terrorist list.

"If they took action, they would have listed them already," said Thornhill Conservative MP Melissa Lantsman.

"So, if burning a Canadian flag, if calling for the death of Canadians, if fomenting hate in this country, and most of all being a front for an already-listed terrorist organization is not enough to put them on the list, then what the hell is it going to take for them to ban them?"

 

Jennifer O'Connell, Parliamentary secretary to the public safety minister, said the government would not follow the Conservatives and "play politics" with the issue.

"When it comes to listing of terrorist entities, the members opposite know full well it is not a political decision," O'Connell said. "It is based on the national security services of this country.

"But it's precisely why the minister had already sent it for an urgent review, understanding that this hate is unacceptable in Canada."

 

Edited October 8 by Satchmo

[Elias Pettersson]

22 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I guess we hear different things depending on what we are listening for. Were not both sound clips from yesterday?

Trudeau was referencing the attacks of October 7. Poilievre was talking about banning the Samidoun from Canada. Two completely different things. The Samidoun were the ones chanting “Death to Canada”. They are terrorists. 
 

FYI, Eby and Rustad also condemned the hate speech along with Poilievre. What about the actual leader of the country?

 

https://vancouversun.com/news/hateful-rhetoric-bc-pro-palestinian-protest

 

The protest was organized by the pro-Palestinian group Samidoun and held on the anniversary of the Oct. 7, 2023, Hamas attack on Israel that killed about 1,200 people while triggering a war that has left about 41,000 dead in Gaza.

On social media platform X, B.C. NDP Leader David Eby responded to a post describing the speech, saying “this kind of hateful rhetoric is wrong and has no place in our province.”

B.C. Conservative Leader John Rustad said in a statement that the behaviour is “completely unacceptable,” while federal Conservatives Leader Pierre Poilievre vowed to list Samidoun as a terrorist entity if his party forms the next Canadian government.

“We’ve seen what happens when these groups aren’t taken seriously,” Poilievre’s statement said.

Rustad, whose provincial Conservatives are in a contest with Eby’s NDP in the upcoming B.C. election on Oct. 19, says in his video statement that his party would “crack down on this type of hate” if elected.

Eby says in his social media post that the province’s people “stand together against violence — and the glorification of it. And we strive for peace.”

 

EDIT: @Bure_Pavel Just let us know that the video with Trudeau was from last year. 

Edited October 8 by Elias Pettersson

[Elias Pettersson]

15 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

The video is 11 months old.....

So, Trudeau wasn’t even speaking yesterday?   

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

I am fairly sure we will see rollbacks of social supports, generally affecting families with household income under 100k (most of the households in Canada) including ten dollar a day childcare, allowing women in particular to have and maintain careers without being economically punished for having a kid or kids, stopping dental care for those folks who qualify (700 thousand have already used the dental care system). they will probably seek to end universal pharma care concepts and through pure ideology repeal contraceptives and hygiene products, and perhaps diabetes meds that are already worked into that system. I am also 100% sure we will see a backbench Conservative Members 'private' bill on limiting access to abortion in some way federally. We all know on day one he will axe the carbon rebates along with the tax and any incentives for anyone to make changes to how they use energy that is destroying our planet.  So much more to mention but I will leave it there.. hockey is on anyhow. 

 

That's likely all on the list. I can't wait for the Brexit style regret videos.

 

[RupertKBD]

32 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

The video is 11 months old.....

 

So, you're saying the problem is that Trudeau didn't condemn it..... again?

 

Sorry. You're not really convincing me that this is about the protests and not just an excuse to criticize JT....

[Bllewellyn]

On 9/27/2024 at 10:09 AM, Warhippy said:

That's a bold statement.  Erroneous and way off base but ok.

 

To say I don't care when my every statement has been the following is kind of amusing, especially as NOBODY has been named but the allegations are starting to lean one way on the political spectrum which is now lending weight to the concerns as to why the Conservative PM hopeful has not gone and gotten, but refused to get his security clearance.

 

Here's the funny thing, as of now NONE have been named but we now have 5 statements in which the levels of interference were allegedly only against Liberal candidates or to influence conservative part leadership and mp races.

 

But ok.

 

Let's say for instance that the interference from China/India/Iran was all to the benefit of the LIbs.  They need to be thrown out of office and placed in jail period.  That is essentially treason and I don't care who a person is they need to be in jail.  Zero tolerance.

 

Now, can you say the same about Polievre and his potential assistance in his leadership race?  Or this story in which a Lib was targeted for attack?  What if the actual names come out and they are a majority Conservative?  Will you be as outraged and want the same level of punishment?

Yes the punishment you have stated should be just the start for whomever is guilty. I believe it should go harsher than just jail it should involve confiscation of any assets,money etc that can be remotely traced back. It should leave them broken and embarrassed….. made an example of and a visible deterrent to others… don’t care liberals or conservatives or whomever….

[Optimist Prime]

39 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So, Trudeau wasn’t even speaking yesterday?   

wow, i will take my fellow forums members word for it, I thought it was yesterday as it was in my feed this morning. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

wow, i will take my fellow forums members word for it, I thought it was yesterday as it was in my feed this morning. 

No worries my friend. No matter how much we disagree in here, I will always respect you as a poster and your opinions and never personally attack you. Cheers. 

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

No worries my friend. No matter how much we disagree in here, I will always respect you as a poster and your opinions and never personally attack you. Cheers. 

I know your a good fella, I hate making errors in public though, i will give myself a good talking to later. 

[DSVII]

8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Why the fuck aren’t these terrorists being arrested and deported?  Trudeau and his Liberal government can also follow them out of the country. 

 

 

 

Yea deport them and add Samidoun to the terrorist org list while we're at it.

 

Keep in mind too, the people who want this amplified, this is not the norm. 

 

 

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

I am fairly sure we will see rollbacks of social supports, generally affecting families with household income under 100k (most of the households in Canada) including ten dollar a day childcare, allowing women in particular to have and maintain careers without being economically punished for having a kid or kids, stopping dental care for those folks who qualify (700 thousand have already used the dental care system). they will probably seek to end universal pharma care concepts and through pure ideology repeal contraceptives and hygiene products, and perhaps diabetes meds that are already worked into that system. I am also 100% sure we will see a backbench Conservative Members 'private' bill on limiting access to abortion in some way federally. We all know on day one he will axe the carbon rebates along with the tax and any incentives for anyone to make changes to how they use energy that is destroying our planet.  So much more to mention but I will leave it there.. hockey is on anyhow. 

 

Yup...which means vast swathes of people will be voting against their own best interest...

 

 

As I said the other day...I weep for the political literacy in this country.

Edited October 9 by aGENT

[King Heffy]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Yup...which means vast swathes of people will be voting against their own best interest...

 

 

As I said the other day...I weep for the political literacy in this country.

I'm really getting on board with the suggestion of some form of basic political literacy test being a requirement to vote.

[King Heffy]

7 hours ago, Satchmo said:

From short term memory: Hamas is not a resistance.  They are terrorists.  And no one in Canada should be supporting them much less celebrating them.

 

I did not look at it again but I'm sure I was pretty close.  And I said Trudeau had something to say.  Which he did.   I did not say he was promising deportations (which is very trendy these days) to his potential voters without discussion of details, laws, or logistics.

 

Nice try though.

Can we also preemptively ban American terrorists from entering Canada such as Carlson, Trump, ect, or is this a problem that increases with the amount of melanin for a the con supporters?

Edited October 9 by King Heffy

[Warhippy]

14 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Why the fuck aren’t these terrorists being arrested and deported?  Trudeau and his Liberal government can also follow them out of the country. 

 

 

 

14 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

This is Trudeau’s Canada, where terrorists are allowed to enter the country and burn the Canadian flag without fear of arrest. 

 

The Liberal party is going to be completely wiped out next election.  It will cease to exist…
 

 

 

13 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

"We are Hezbollah", "We are Hamas"...

 

They literally just admitted they are terrorists...

 

Chanting "Death to Canada" is hate speech and a call to arms.  Anyone who says that should be arrested and deported immediately...

 

 

 

11 hours ago, bolt said:

I love this bit of hypocrisy so much.  And before you start your incessant jumping to conclusions, I do NOT support these idiots.  I do not condone these idiots and I think they'd be better off at the bottom of Hudson bay

 

So on one hand there is an entire belief system that still think canada has "freedom of speech" who sit and blindly accept people literally calling for the attacks assaults or deaths of sitting MPs because "free speech" (not freedom of expression)

 

Who all of a sudden have an issue because*checks notes* equally crappy human beings are exercising their "free speech" 

 

Ok?  the people who support that side can be awful and some can accept and defend it, then they absolutely MUST give these pieces of trash the exact same treatment or sit down and admit you only accept the freedoms you claim are important so long as it conforms to their and ONLY their beliefs.

 

because as crappy and disgusting as it is, these idiots are still canadian by and large and are still afforded the exact same freedom they have demanded, defended and accepted from their side of the political divide.

 

So pick a lane already

 

It is freedom for all or only freedom based on privilege.

 

Edit*  Also, the flag is nothing more than a cheap piece of coloured nylon made largely in China.  Let's ignore the histrionics about how awful it is to trample on it or burn it when people accepted it being flown next to the nazi flag and union jack a few years ago because...reasons.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9 by Warhippy

[Boudrias]

Rustad and Poilievre addressed the obvious about what happened at the Court House in Vancouver yesterday. A terrorist was given a megaphone and allowed to voice hate and threats to Jews and all Canadians. She should have been arrested and shipped out of the country.

 

National security should be a over riding issue in Canada. The Liberal Party and Justin Trudeau are at the focal point. CSIS applied for a warrant on Michael Chan for his involvement with the PRC. Chan was a Cabinet Minister in the Ontario Liberal government. The CSIS warrant request sat in Minister Bill Blair's office for 56 days with no action taken. Combine that with the CSIS reports of politicians in the House of Parliament influencing policy to benefit the PRC. The names of those politicians have not been released after several months. Citizens should not wonder why Canada is now held in such low esteem and trust by allies around the world.