[signing] Forbort to Canucks

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

To be fair though, most on this board would suggest it would be smart to play Zadorov more than Cole.  Many would also suggest this with Myers although he turned things around nicely last year.

 

Is Zadorov a top 4 or a top 6?.....I think he's a top 4 on most teams.  We had a great D last year and he would not have been out of place to say he was top 4.  The bottom 4 last year were all relatively at the same level with similar minutes, so it's a bit moot, no?

He just wasn't top four with the Canucks. If Allvin and Rutherford thought so, wouldn't they have signed him and agreed to his terms? 

 

I'm guessing that their offer of 5m, basically the same as Boston's, but the term, I am willing to bet was shorter than the 6 years that Boston was willing to give. 

 

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

7 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

One strong 13 game playoff where he played on a team with injuries, old players, and a value salary defence doesn't really erase the previous ten years. 

 

There is a reason why he doesn't ever become a top 4 mainstay on the teams he's on. Much like Myers he crashes when asked to do too much. He doesn't have a great hockey IQ and his conditioning and mobility are issues as well.

 

It's possible he does this with Boston moving forward but it's not a bet I'd like to make.

Your thoughts and insight are helpful in letting big Z go… and we may be better off without him by the sounds of it…

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

5 hours ago, EdgarM said:

Who makes 6?

Myers previously made 6 annually…

[EdgarM]

18 hours ago, EdgarM said:

 

 

Is that entirely true though?

During the regular season the LD behind QH was Soucy ATOI 17:29 and Zadorov ATOI 17:04

                                                In the playoffs, it was  Soucy ATOI 16:58 and Zadorov ATOI 20:09 

 

11 hours ago, EdgarM said:

#6 ? What are you talking about?  In depth at LD last season he was basically similarto Soucy in minutes, thats a fact. 

 

9 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

 

That's 5 players with more ice time making him 6th in minutes played. That's a fact.  As you indicated, he almost played as much but less than Soucy, who is already signed at $3 mil. He's clearly not some vital top 4 piece playing big minutes.

 

Again, I indicated left defense as indicated with a "LD" in my posts. This is quite comical in the amount of effort you guys are making to prove me wrong.  

[EdgarM]

11 hours ago, Attila Umbrus said:

Fair point lol

 

But I think maybe he’s finally found a proper niche

 

I think of how Edler evolved at the end of his career. Some guys get better with age.

 

Another older dman that got better with age was Kronwall that guy just got better and better…till his hips and knees gave out from all the huge hits

 

It may be a stretch but I think Myers has always been mis cast and forced to do too much. Whether that’s because he thought he was something more than what he really was or just teams wanting something he couldn’t fully give…but the refinement in him last year was the best he’s ever been in his career. Even better than when he was more an offensive dman in Buffalo when first drafted.

 

Time will tell. But worth it at 3 mil to see what kinda runway he has left. And he actually wants to be here and to be honest left money on the table.

 

Dak wants to be here too. He took less to stay and be a part of this team. 
 

Miller did the same. Hopefully others will follow. I’m nervous how Peteys contract will age…but 100 pt players gonna get paid no matter what.

 

Anyways rambling sorry. On night shift and bored 

I don't think he took a discount to stay, he wanted to stay but we paid him 3 years at 3 million? I think many were thinking that 2.5 was the limit for him and I would have liked to see how he did this year before committing him for 3 more years. It looks like the typical contract where the player sucks for most of the contract then picks it up in the last year. His CONTRACT YEAR. 

[EdgarM]

8 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

To be fair though, most on this board would suggest it would be smart to play Zadorov more than Cole.  Many would also suggest this with Myers although he turned things around nicely last year.

 

Is Zadorov a top 4 or a top 6?.....I think he's a top 4 on most teams.  We had a great D last year and he would not have been out of place to say he was top 4.  The bottom 4 last year were all relatively at the same level with similar minutes, so it's a bit moot, no?

Thank you, we were basically Hughes/Hronek and then everyone else last year. I find it funny that we are praising Myers for having a great year when we do the exact opposite for Zadorov? 

From what I seen last year, I think they were all fairly good in the regular season but Cole faultered and Zadorov shined in the playoffs. 

Also, whatever faults Zadorov had, would Gonchar/Foote not be able to fix them the same way they helped Myers? 

What ever faults Zadorov had were nowhere near as bad as Myers faults in the past where he earned his handle, which was quite fitting before last season.

Now Boston is going to use him in their top pairing or in the very least, in the top 4, so its not too crazy to think that he is more then just a career 5/6 defenseman in this league.

[Attila Umbrus]

12 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

I don't think he took a discount to stay, he wanted to stay but we paid him 3 years at 3 million? I think many were thinking that 2.5 was the limit for him and I would have liked to see how he did this year before committing him for 3 more years. It looks like the typical contract where the player sucks for most of the contract then picks it up in the last year. His CONTRACT YEAR. 

You may be right. I’m hoping it will age well. Time will tell. 

[EdgarM]

2 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said:

You may be right. I’m hoping it will age well. Time will tell. 

 

Yes me too, at least we are no longer paying him 6 million per year. By my calculations though, he owes us for what he gave us on his last contract. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

9 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Thank you, we were basically Hughes/Hronek and then everyone else last year. I find it funny that we are praising Myers for having a great year when we do the exact opposite for Zadorov? 

From what I seen last year, I think they were all fairly good in the regular season but Cole faultered and Zadorov shined in the playoffs. 

Also, whatever faults Zadorov had, would Gonchar/Foote not be able to fix them the same way they helped Myers? 

What ever faults Zadorov had were nowhere near as bad as Myers faults in the past where he earned his handle, which was quite fitting before last season.

Now Boston is going to use him in their top pairing or in the very least, in the top 4, so its not too crazy to think that he is more then just a career 5/6 defenseman in this league.

Probably because Myers has had periods of time where he didn't suck (granted, he's also had periods of time where he was 'chaos giraffe').  Longer body of work vs the less than one season of Zadorov (though if I'm a betting man, I'd go all in on Z continuing/progressing vs Myers).  I'm guessing it came down to cap (and especially term) as the team looked to upgrade up front as well.

[Dizzle]

9 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

To be fair though, most on this board would suggest it would be smart to play Zadorov more than Cole.  Many would also suggest this with Myers although he turned things around nicely last year.

 

Is Zadorov a top 4 or a top 6?.....I think he's a top 4 on most teams.  We had a great D last year and he would not have been out of place to say he was top 4.  The bottom 4 last year were all relatively at the same level with similar minutes, so it's a bit moot, no?

he’s a top 4 on most teams….and yet has been a bottom pairing guy (granted one who could move to the middle pair when needed) on every team he’s played on, minus a 13 game stint in the playoffs?

 

1 hour ago, EdgarM said:

 

 

 

Again, I indicated left defense as indicated with a "LD" in my posts. This is quite comical in the amount of effort you guys are making to prove me wrong.  

When in his 10 year career has he been more than a bottom pairing defencemen for more than half a season? 

[EdgarM]

14 minutes ago, Dizzle said:

he’s a top 4 on most teams….and yet has been a bottom pairing guy (granted one who could move to the middle pair when needed) on every team he’s played on, minus a 13 game stint in the playoffs?

 

When in his 10 year career has he been more than a bottom pairing defencemen for more than half a season? 

 

Oh now its "more than half a season", I see. 

[The Duke]

13 hours ago, EdgarM said:

 

He is still chaos giraffe but now he has 1 good season under his belt after all the bad years. There is some apprehension that he can be a new man at 34 years of age. Foote and Gonchar are good, but they are not miracle workers. 

1 good season is false.  
 

Myers had good years in 1, 3 and 5 of his contract - and his poor years coincided with playing shutdown role on teams with overall poor structure and a weak partner. 
 

While he wasn’t worth 6 mil, he’s likely to be more valuable than the 3 he’s getting next year.  And while I’d have preferred a 2 year deal, he’s fast, in great shape and I’ve seen no signs of him slowing down due to age.  
 

Bringing him back was a no-brainer as a #4 as-is or a #5 if we can upgrade RD.

 

Meanwhile, Soucy at 3.25 x 2 is an easy choice vs Zadorov at 5 x 6.  The fact we landed Forbort for 1.5 x 1 supports that. Is Zadorov the better player?  Sure.  But not by much, especially regular season.  I’d rather have the flexibility and overall team composition with Myers and Forbort for those contracts than the Zadorov one. 
 

Desharnais is a bit of an overpay, but Foote himself said he saw some upside.  So we’ll see what he can do. Tough to argue with the results so far.

Edited July 5 by The Duke

[EdgarM]

5 minutes ago, The Duke said:

1 good season is false.  
 

Myers had good years in 1, 3 and 5 of his contract - and his poor years coincided with playing shutdown role on teams with overall poor structure and a weak partner. 
 

While he wasn’t worth 6 mil, he’s likely to be more valuable than the 3 he’s getting next year.  And while I’d have preferred a 2 year deal, he’s fast, in great shape and I’ve seen no signs of him slowing down due to age.  
 

Brining him back was a no-brainer as a #4 as-is or a #5 if we can upgrade RD.

 

Meanwhile, Soucy at 3.25 x 2 is an easy choice vs Zadorov at 5 x 6.  The fact we landed Forbort for 1.5 x 1 supports that. Is Zadorov the better player?  Sure.  But I’d rather have the flexibility and overall team composition with Myers and Forbort for those contracts than the Zadorov one. 
 

Desharnais is a bit of an overpay, but Foote himself said he saw some upside.  So we’ll see what he can do. Tough to argue with the results so far.

Wow thats a lot of speculation and excuses for the big man. I seriously thought we could have at least seen what was available in free agency before commiting so much to him, who he said he wanted to stay here anyway.

We will see how the season unfolds and if he can handle the minutes of a top 4 dman on a contending team.

[Dizzle]

11 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

Oh now its "more than half a season", I see. 

I’ll wait… 

 

[spook007]

Myers may be top 4 this season, but next season he'll likely split it with Willander for part of the season.

Edited July 5 by spook007

[NHL97OneTimer]

8 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

He just wasn't top four with the Canucks. If Allvin and Rutherford thought so, wouldn't they have signed him and agreed to his terms? 

 

I'm guessing that their offer of 5m, basically the same as Boston's, but the term, I am willing to bet was shorter than the 6 years that Boston was willing to give. 

 

you're splitting hairs there man.  He was bottom 4 if we want to be as accurate as possible.  

[Gawdzukes]

9 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

To be fair though, most on this board would suggest it would be smart to play Zadorov more than Cole.  Many would also suggest this with Myers although he turned things around nicely last year.

 

Is Zadorov a top 4 or a top 6?.....I think he's a top 4 on most teams.  We had a great D last year and he would not have been out of place to say he was top 4.  The bottom 4 last year were all relatively at the same level with similar minutes, so it's a bit moot, no?

 

I personally think he's merely a top 6 myself. I wouldn't want to trust him playing a regular important top 4 role for the next 6 years. Imo he just doesn't have the IQ and consistency of someone I want to lean on for big minutes. Many times he loses his coverage, is stagnant on coverage, and slow to make or misses reads completely. He's prone to make chaos giraffe type mistakes, and takes really bad penalties. He's still a useful player for sure but there is a reason his deployment has been what it has the past 11 years. He's not worth the money and term he got. He should be closer to a Myers or Soucy contract wise and if he was he'd be on the team.

 

45 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

 

 

Again, I indicated left defense as indicated with a "LD" in my posts. This is quite comical in the amount of effort you guys are making to prove me wrong.  

 

Haha, just having a go Eddie. No, it is kind of funny because while you try to argue he's a top 4 with your stats they indicate he's dead last in top 6 deployment and dead last as the 3rd LD in terms of the time on ice you pointed at. So ... technically you are wrong.

 

Having said that I do get your point. He's very close to Soucy and indeed all 4 of those bottom guys were similar in overall quality, although I think Soucy is the best defensively and Cole has far more pedigree. The key though is that none of those guys want big money and crazy term like Zadorov did. We also already had two LD's signed and no spending $$.

 

Now, it looks like Zads will get a big opportunity in Boston so we'll all get to see if he grabs that top 4 spot and runs with it. I hope he does well, it just didn't make sense for us. One huge difference is that Boston had holes on their left side, no Quinn Hughes obviously, a rookie in Lohrei, and plenty of cap space to go hunting for a necessity. Similar profile to Chara doesn't hurt either.  Line up combos has Boston's D as:

 

Lohrei McAvoy

Lindholm Carlo

Zadorov Peeke

[The Duke]

35 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Wow thats a lot of speculation and excuses for the big man. I seriously thought we could have at least seen what was available in free agency before commiting so much to him, who he said he wanted to stay here anyway.

We will see how the season unfolds and if he can handle the minutes of a top 4 dman on a contending team.

I’m not going to look them up, but even the stats nerds who hated the Myers signing gave him passing grades in those years. With Edler, and 1st year of OEL he did a passable job in a matchup role. Last year we just saw - and it was good. 
 

I would have been fine if they went out and landed Roy, Tanev or Pesce to upgrade RD.  However, I’d still think they would take Myers at 3x3  over Desharnais at 2x2.  (Use Poolman’s LTIR + no Desharnais + don’t sign Heinen = an extra 6.75 they could have used on the upgrade.)

Edited July 5 by The Duke

[Gawdzukes]

4 hours ago, EdgarM said:

 

Yes me too, at least we are no longer paying him 6 million per year. By my calculations though, he owes us for what he gave us on his last contract. 

 

Yeah to be honest I've been leading the get rid of Myers fan club during most of his contract. However, I have to give credit where it's due. He really turned his play around 180 degrees last year, and was very decent in a support role. I'm okay with the signing because we are cap strapped. He's come in cheaper than most options, and the coaches are comfortable with him. He's a cheapish stop gap the coaches like while we position for the future. We're in a transition period. The one thing I do wonder now is what happens with Willander if he's ready to go next year. Or does he spend a year in the AHL, or on the bench, or do we trade Desharnais?

 

2 hours ago, The Duke said:

1 good season is false.  
 

Myers had good years in 1, 3 and 5 of his contract - and his poor years coincided with playing shutdown role on teams with overall poor structure and a weak partner. 
 

While he wasn’t worth 6 mil, he’s likely to be more valuable than the 3 he’s getting next year.  And while I’d have preferred a 2 year deal, he’s fast, in great shape and I’ve seen no signs of him slowing down due to age.  
 

Bringing him back was a no-brainer as a #4 as-is or a #5 if we can upgrade RD.

 

Meanwhile, Soucy at 3.25 x 2 is an easy choice vs Zadorov at 5 x 6.  The fact we landed Forbort for 1.5 x 1 supports that. Is Zadorov the better player?  Sure.  But not by much, especially regular season.  I’d rather have the flexibility and overall team composition with Myers and Forbort for those contracts than the Zadorov one. 
 

Desharnais is a bit of an overpay, but Foote himself said he saw some upside.  So we’ll see what he can do. Tough to argue with the results so far.

 

This is an excellent post. Soucy at 3.25 x 2 is obviously so much better than Zadorov at 5 x 6 for two very comparable players. Such an easy choice if you're being even slightly responsible. Especially a team whose biggest challenge is fighting the cap situation the next couple years.

Edited July 5 by Gawdzukes

[EdgarM]

44 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

I personally think he's merely a top 6 myself. I wouldn't want to trust him playing a regular important top 4 role for the next 6 years. Imo he just doesn't have the IQ and consistency of someone I want to lean on for big minutes. Many times he loses his coverage, is stagnant on coverage, and slow to make or misses reads completely. He's prone to make chaos giraffe type mistakes, and takes really bad penalties. He's still a useful player for sure but there is a reason his deployment has been what it has the past 11 years. He's not worth the money and term he got. He should be closer to a Myers or Soucy contract wise and if he was he'd be on the team.

 

 

Haha, just having a go Eddie. No, it is kind of funny because while you try to argue he's a top 4 with your stats they indicate he's dead last in top 6 deployment and dead last as the 3rd LD in terms of the time on ice you pointed at. So ... technically you are wrong.

 

Having said that I do get your point. He's very close to Soucy and indeed all 4 of those bottom guys were similar in overall quality, although I think Soucy is the best defensively and Cole has far more pedigree. The key though is that none of those guys want big money and crazy term like Zadorov did. We also already had two LD's signed and no spending $$.

 

Now, it looks like Zads will get a big opportunity in Boston so we'll all get to see if he grabs that top 4 spot and runs with it. I hope he does well, it just didn't make sense for us. One huge difference is that Boston had holes on their left side, no Quinn Hughes obviously, a rookie in Lohrei, and plenty of cap space to go hunting for a necessity. Similar profile to Chara doesn't hurt either.  Line up combos has Boston's D as:

 

Lohrei McAvoy

Lindholm Carlo

Zadorov Peeke

Its all good, its really a matter of opinion and I think he is more then a 5/6 guy I guess we will soon find out either way. I hear they want him in the top 4 and the contract they signed indicates that as well. 

All water under the bridge and now my biggest concern is what we have remaining for our own top 4. There are just as many question marks there but I do trust this management group and there probably is something there that none of us fans are aware of. I hope. 

[N4ZZY]

9 hours ago, I.AM.THE.WALRUS said:

It's possible he does this with Boston moving forward but it's not a bet I'd like to make.

And if he doesn't live up to being a top four defenseman, that contract is going to age like milk. It's going to be a contract that Boston's going to have to pay to get rid of. Could we see Zadorov come back because of a buyout or a trade down the road? 

[Dr. Crossbar]

1 hour ago, The Duke said:

1 good season is false.  
 

Myers had good years in 1, 3 and 5 of his contract - and his poor years coincided with playing shutdown role on teams with overall poor structure and a weak partner. 
 

While he wasn’t worth 6 mil, he’s likely to be more valuable than the 3 he’s getting next year.  And while I’d have preferred a 2 year deal, he’s fast, in great shape and I’ve seen no signs of him slowing down due to age.  
 

Bringing him back was a no-brainer as a #4 as-is or a #5 if we can upgrade RD.

 

Meanwhile, Soucy at 3.25 x 2 is an easy choice vs Zadorov at 5 x 6.  The fact we landed Forbort for 1.5 x 1 supports that. Is Zadorov the better player?  Sure.  But not by much, especially regular season.  I’d rather have the flexibility and overall team composition with Myers and Forbort for those contracts than the Zadorov one. 
 

Desharnais is a bit of an overpay, but Foote himself said he saw some upside.  So we’ll see what he can do. Tough to argue with the results so far.

 

Glad to see perspective with Myers. He wasn't all bad. Context does matter. Especially when looking at the team we had during his earlier years. Pretty much our entire blueline was overcompensating, carrying double load, and playing over their heads. Couple that with his size organically being a liability than it's easy to see what was happening.

 

The team and coaching staff did the right thing, and the harder thing, in investing in him to use his size the right way and leverage his strengths in the right way.

 

It's really easy to pounce on players solely because of math. Myers became an easy outlet for angry people.

 

Also, this past offseason, my perspective is that Myers is a team first guy and easier to work with as compared to Zad who seems to be a me first guy and a bit more rigid.

 

 

 

 

[Curmudgeon]

53 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Wow thats a lot of speculation and excuses for the big man. I seriously thought we could have at least seen what was available in free agency before commiting so much to him, who he said he wanted to stay here anyway.

We will see how the season unfolds and if he can handle the minutes of a top 4 dman on a contending team.

 

Do you think that management wasn't completely aware of who would and wouldn't be available and what the potential acquisition costs would be? Of course they were, and they decided that Forbort and Desharnais fit their criteria and their budget. And when you say you want to see what was available, here's a list of UFA defencemen who signed on July 1 (not including trades): Jake Bean, Josh Brown, Joel Edmundson, Brandon Montour, Alec Martinez, T.J. Brodie, Erik Brannstrom, Calvin DeHaan, Matt Dumba, Ilya Lybushkin, Chris Tanev, Jani Hakanpaa, Brendan Smith, Brady Skjei, Pierre-Olivier Joseph, Ian Cole, Nikita Zadorov, Haydn Fleury, Sean Walker, Brett Pesce, Brenden Dillon, Matt Grzelcyk, Sebastian Aho, Matt Roy, Erik Gustafsson, Nate Schmidt, Oliver Ekman-Larsson. 

 

I may have missed a couple, but you get the idea: Whatever quality was available was going to cost too much both in dollars and in term. Players who could have been decent fits in Vancouver?

Tanev, 6 years, $4.5M. Money is okay, term is not.

Montour, 7 years, $7.12M. Money is too much, term too long.

Skjei, 7 years, $7M. Money is too much, term too long.

Zadorov, 6 years, $5M. Money is okay, Term too long.

Pesce, 6 years, $5.5M. A the top end of acceptable, given that Pesce is only 29 and not 32 or 33.

Dillon, 3 years, $4M. Acceptable, but Dillon obviously accepted his best offer.

Myers, 3 years, $3M. A bargain, wouldn't you say?

 

Maybe some of the other guys on the list could have been a fit, but most UFA signings were older guys whose best years are behind them. Vancouver was able to keep salaries reasonable and term acceptable. Even DeBrusk's seven-year deal at $5.5M was at a team-friendly salary.

[Gawdzukes]

51 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Its all good, its really a matter of opinion and I think he is more then a 5/6 guy I guess we will soon find out either way. I hear they want him in the top 4 and the contract they signed indicates that as well. 

All water under the bridge and now my biggest concern is what we have remaining for our own top 4. There are just as many question marks there but I do trust this management group and there probably is something there that none of us fans are aware of. I hope. 

 

Absolutely. I agree it's totally just opinion ... and I'm fully ready to eat some crow as no one really knows how he'll fit in there. I just don't see a cerebral player in Zads, which is one of the biggest needs in a top 4 role. I agree it looks like Boston definitely gave him a top 4 contract.

 

As you say it doesn't really matter, we have to focus on what we have gong forward. I ... as you have concerns about playing Myers as a top 4 but it looks like the plan is the same as last year the and bottom four will be a committee approach with two 2/3 defensive pairings behind Hughes and Hronek.

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, Curmudgeon said:

 

Do you think that management wasn't completely aware of who would and wouldn't be available and what the potential acquisition costs would be? Of course they were, and they decided that Forbort and Desharnais fit their criteria and their budget. And when you say you want to see what was available, here's a list of UFA defencemen who signed on July 1 (not including trades): Jake Bean, Josh Brown, Joel Edmundson, Brandon Montour, Alec Martinez, T.J. Brodie, Erik Brannstrom, Calvin DeHaan, Matt Dumba, Ilya Lybushkin, Chris Tanev, Jani Hakanpaa, Brendan Smith, Brady Skjei, Pierre-Olivier Joseph, Ian Cole, Nikita Zadorov, Haydn Fleury, Sean Walker, Brett Pesce, Brenden Dillon, Matt Grzelcyk, Sebastian Aho, Matt Roy, Erik Gustafsson, Nate Schmidt, Oliver Ekman-Larsson. 

 

I may have missed a couple, but you get the idea: Whatever quality was available was going to cost too much both in dollars and in term. Players who could have been decent fits in Vancouver?

Tanev, 6 years, $4.5M. Money is okay, term is not.

Montour, 7 years, $7.12M. Money is too much, term too long.

Skjei, 7 years, $7M. Money is too much, term too long.

Zadorov, 6 years, $5M. Money is okay, Term too long.

Pesce, 6 years, $5.5M. A the top end of acceptable, given that Pesce is only 29 and not 32 or 33.

Dillon, 3 years, $4M. Acceptable, but Dillon obviously accepted his best offer.

Myers, 3 years, $3M. A bargain, wouldn't you say?

 

Maybe some of the other guys on the list could have been a fit, but most UFA signings were older guys whose best years are behind them. Vancouver was able to keep salaries reasonable and term acceptable. Even DeBrusk's seven-year deal at $5.5M was at a team-friendly salary.

Yeah, those are interesting names. 

 

 I would've taken a shot at Jake Bean, Brannstrom, Haydn Fleury as bottom pairing defenseman for the Canucks. They probably could've helped move the puck up ice to the forwards, unless Tocchet and the coaching staff as well as management see a different way to move the puck up the ice compared to how they did it last season. I'll be interested to see how they move the puck to the forwards, especially when their bottom pairing in Forbort and Desharnais don't do it very well. 

 

Dillon always says that he's open to coming to the Canucks, but never actually comes to the Canucks. It's a farce at this point  I wouldn't take his word seriously. 

 

How are we going to be hard to play against? Because it seems that's what everyone is seemingly saying about the Canucks after these additions we've made. More physically harder to play against? More annoying?