Provost Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 6 hours ago, PureQuickness said: Both things could still be true. The market price was set high for Myers (too high in hindsight) and that Myers never ended up living up to the contract. My point was that market price does not match up with 'actual' price. Comparison is like our housing prices. The house physically is not worth 1M+. The land, however, is beyond that, so it makes even the worst house worth that much simply because of the area. We don’t know what the market price was, we only know what Benning paid. At the same time most of the hockey world was saying he was overpaid, that doesn’t lend itself to thinking we got Myers and he left money on the table. That is especially true after a bunch of overpay signings he was doing. Some local media folks speculated about prices after having it leaked that we were planning on signing Myers. We know that even after losing Trouba, Winnipeg didn’t find a way to keep Myers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureQuickness Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, Provost said: We don’t know what the market price was, we only know what Benning paid. At the same time most of the hockey world was saying he was overpaid, that doesn’t lend itself to thinking we got Myers and he left money on the table. That is especially true after a bunch of overpay signings he was doing. Some local media folks speculated about prices after having it leaked that we were planning on signing Myers. We know that even after losing Trouba, Winnipeg didn’t find a way to keep Myers. The rumour was 7M for Myers, but that wasn't just local media folks saying that. When the dust settled, the article that someone else shared was that Myers for 6M was STILL overpaid. I don't think anyone can ever defend the signing in hindsight, yet to say that 6M was NOT market price is a little unfair or inaccurate. I think for the purposes of a discussion, all of us have to acknowledge that market price =/= actual worth. We ALL understand that big named UFA players will almost always get overpaid, but there's usually some kind of 'justification' behind it. Eriksson's market price was obviously 6M, considering all other big named UFA forwards were ALSO asking for 6M. As an aside, if Myers had the right coaching staff, it might have been possible that he could've lived up the 6M pricetag, but at this point, I fully admit that this is speculative and not necessarily based on facts. The fact is that in hindsight, 6M was a bad signing for Myers. That said, we are retaining Myers for 3M now under Allvin, so that in itself is worth something in the long run. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 12 hours ago, King Heffy said: They don't. There's no substitute for actually watching the players instead of trusting some analytics dweeb who has zero understanding of the sport. I think JR was asked about analytics and I remembered his response being something I agreed with. He basically said analytics helps confirm the eye test. It's another tool / data point that helps the decision process because if they view a player's strength and weaknesses in a certain light, analytics should agree with that assessment but if it doesn't, that's when you might need to take a closer look and see why they don't jive. For instance just a few pages ago, @Corybergcompared the war charts from jfresh hockey showing that Zadorov wasn't much better than Forbort or Desharnais. That didn't jive with me because in my eyes, Zadorov was clearly the better player. So taking a closer look, I realized it's a weighted average of 3 years and Zadorov was at a major disadvantage when looking at those stats because his player card was made Nov 2023. That's when he just left a crappy flames team so basically his war chart was based on his performance on the Flames the previous 2 seasons (where by everyone's opinion including mine, he was a borderline 5D) What I would love to see is (despite a smaller sample size) what his WAR and player card shows between Dec 2023 and May 2024 because that's what we'd be using to project whether he is trending to be a 4D. That's how fancy stats should be used. To confirm our views rather than to tell us what view to take of a certain player. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 14 hours ago, spook007 said: Aye cheers amigo, My point was just, it was reported that he could get around 7x7 and thus getting him for 5x$6M wasn't bad... Again, I'm not standing up for Benning, but he wanted a top RHD and for some reason thought Myers was it... he clearly wasn't, and even as a top 4 he was the 4th... so yes in hindsight, he was vastly overpaid... But with Guddy being paid $4M as a pylon, who could throw them, But rarely did... not surprised Myers got paid.... Thing is nearly all FAs ends up looking like over payments... or just break even on their contracts... that's the down side of going into the FA market... All good. If Benning waited he could have gotten Myers for less (I assume w/o Benning's contract Myers ends up like a 4.5 Million x 5 year contract with another team). And that was the problem with Benning the contract he offers to Free Agents is either not team friendly, doesn't add surplus value with the signing, or both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo5789 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 New stud offensive dman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks curse Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 2 minutes ago, Theo5789 said: New stud offensive dman? This just shows you how bad that level is / how far it is from nhl hockey - how does this prepare or help pros get better??? brock improved when he got out of that league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain insano Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 3 hours ago, canucks curse said: This just shows you how bad that level is / how far it is from nhl hockey - how does this prepare or help pros get better??? brock improved when he got out of that league ….. life must suck eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureQuickness Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 5 hours ago, canucks curse said: This just shows you how bad that level is / how far it is from nhl hockey - how does this prepare or help pros get better??? brock improved when he got out of that league It's a fun league, or as Tocchet says, "The Bad Habits League." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 On 7/9/2024 at 11:35 PM, iinatcc said: All good. If Benning waited he could have gotten Myers for less (I assume w/o Benning's contract Myers ends up like a 4.5 Million x 5 year contract with another team). And that was the problem with Benning the contract he offers to Free Agents is either not team friendly, doesn't add surplus value with the signing, or both. lol you are clueless if you think myers would have gotten 4.5mil x 5 only from anyone else not named benning.. the defenceman ufa was weak.. alex edler got 6mil for his 8 point season.. stralman got 5.5mil.. and you think myers will only get 4.5mil?? did myers live up to his contractg? no.. but that was the market price at the time.. i swear when it comes to vancouvers player the fans here will set our players value at market minus 1.5-2mil.. and then complain about how this guy is overpaid that guy is overpaid etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 On 7/9/2024 at 9:07 AM, GuyLafleur10 said: I know nothing about all these charts and advanced stats. Well, they often have a lot of pink and blue in them, and if you disagree with the person posting them, they get to beat you with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 9 hours ago, canucks curse said: This just shows you how bad that level is / how far it is from nhl hockey - how does this prepare or help pros get better??? brock improved when he got out of that league Basically just shinny hockey for the pros. it's just for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 13 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: lol you are clueless if you think myers would have gotten 4.5mil x 5 only from anyone else not named benning.. the defenceman ufa was weak.. alex edler got 6mil for his 8 point season.. stralman got 5.5mil.. and you think myers will only get 4.5mil?? did myers live up to his contractg? no.. but that was the market price at the time.. i swear when it comes to vancouvers player the fans here will set our players value at market minus 1.5-2mil.. and then complain about how this guy is overpaid that guy is overpaid etc. to be fair ... the Athletic valued Myers around $2 million or less so it's not just us fans. 4.5 x 5 years. Sure it can happen. It's only my speculation, but the only one that really wanted Myers was Benning. Had Myers got no ideal offers in day one, he would have less leverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) 6 hours ago, iinatcc said: to be fair ... the Athletic valued Myers around $2 million or less so it's not just us fans. 4.5 x 5 years. Sure it can happen. It's only my speculation, but the only one that really wanted Myers was Benning. Had Myers got no ideal offers in day one, he would have less leverage. This is just completely wrong. Myers was the biggest UFA dman on the market. He was always getting $6 from someone. Unfortunately it was us that he preferred. Edited July 19 by Gawdzukes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks curse Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 22 hours ago, Captain insano said: ….. life must suck eh Well if you are serious about getting better how does this help ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 20 hours ago, Bob Long said: Well, they often have a lot of pink and blue in them, and if you disagree with the person posting them, they get to beat you with it. Yup. They really have no value and are produced by people who have zero understanding of the sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 On 7/18/2024 at 4:07 AM, Captain insano said: ….. life must suck eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain insano Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 On 7/18/2024 at 5:21 PM, canucks curse said: Well if you are serious about getting better how does this help ? I dunno but I’m pretty certain these pros have a better idea how to strengthen their own game than your idea on how Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 On 7/18/2024 at 5:21 PM, canucks curse said: Well if you are serious about getting better how does this help ? It's a fun, low stress league that is mostly vets and allows players to get a mental reset while still getting touches on the puck. How is there anything negative about that? Also, Forbot is 32 and has 10 years of NHL experience. At this point in his career it's much more about maintaining his enjoyment and managing his fitness level to prevent injury. It's not like Da Beauty League is the only thing these guys are doing this off-season either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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