[signing] Forbort to Canucks

[BC_Hawk]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Oddly enough, the time that Myers and Hughes played together, they had very good underlying analytics.  Small sample size, but there could be something there after Foote/Gonchar have had their time to work with Chaos Giraffe.

If you want Hughes to wheel a bit, it creates a bit of chaos for his partner. My fear is that we would see the old Myers if we tried that. In addition, he has a very hard time playing HUGE minutes. We rode him hard a couple years back (22/23 before Tocchet), and the guy was just beat tired all the time. This would noty have gotten better with 2 years of age.

 

Canucks are short one Top 4 Dman (LHD or RHD). I am ok with Zad leaving, but they needed to replace him; they did not.

Edited Tuesday at 04:24 PM by BC_Hawk

[Jester13]

1 hour ago, Ohthehumanity said:

I'm concerned about moving the puck out from our backend. After Hughes and Hronek, the other D parings play was to go glass and out, and then the other team just kept coming back in for more. That really needs to be addressed.

The'll work on breakouts a ton. Plus, Hronek can be tested to drive his own line, and we have guys like Friedman, Juulsen, and McWard who can get the puck out pretty well. For games where we want big D, Big V can slot in and push guys around while our forwards swoop in to grab the puck and get it out. 

[EdgarM]

4 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

If you want Hughes to wheel a bit, it creates a bit of chaos for his partner. My fear is that we would see the old Myers if we tried that. In addition, he has a very hard time playing HUGE minutes. We rode him hard a couple years back (22/23 before Tocchet), and the guy was just beat tired all the time. This would noty have gotten better with 2 years of age.

 

Canucks are short one Top 4 Dman (LHD or RHD). I am ok with Zad leaving, but they needed to replace him; they did not.

 

I agree , I would have been OK with that too. Equal or better would have sufficed. That did not happen.

[BC_Hawk]

3 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

I am really concerned with this line up. With Soucy and Forbort injury prone and Myers just "Myers Prone", I have some serious doubts.

The Zadorov signing was a no brainer, we have now put our toughness in the bottom pairing and we got slower and less skilled.

We are becoming to look a lot like the Benning approach in filling our roster with plugs instead of filling specific roles. 

Sorry but resigning Myers and a couple of 3rd pairing D is not the answer if we are looking at contending or at least, continuing and improving from last year.

 

 

With the 2m on Des and the 2.5-3m more would have been enough for Zadorov.

 

In a perfect world, this is what I would have done with our dcore:

 

Hughes-UFA/trade

Zadorov-Hronek

Soucy -UFA/trade/call up

PA had two options at 5m to stabilize the D for 4 years; Roy or Zads.

 

Sign Zads

 

Hughes-Hronek

Zad-Myers (Willander in a few years)

Soucy (D Petterson in a couple Years)-Juulsen/FA/Friedman/etc

 

Same D as last year.....more competition for 3rd pair RHD with inhouse dudes

 

Sign Roy

 

Hughes-Roy

Soucy-Hronek

D Petterson/Friedman/FA/Juulsen/??-  Myers (Willander in a couple years)

 

Solidify RHD side for 4-5 years; create competition on bottom pair (wheer it should be)

 

What we did

 

Hughes-Hronek

Soucy-Myers

Forbort-Des/Juulsen/Friedman/etc

 

Forced to maintain Hughes-Hronek; less talent on LHD; no longterm (3-5 year) solidity. Boooo

 

 

In the end, the money was there......PA spent it on some magic beans.

[BC_Hawk]

7 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

The'll work on breakouts a ton. Plus, Hronek can be tested to drive his own line, and we have guys like Friedman, Juulsen, and McWard who can get the puck out pretty well. For games where we want big D, Big V can slot in and push guys around while our forwards swoop in to grab the puck and get it out. 

Hronek can't drive his own line bc you never got a Dman that can skate nor play the minutes with Hughes.

[IBatch]

 

Allvin.  

On 7/1/2024 at 12:21 PM, Theo5789 said:

Boston fans were ripping into him quite frequently. Hopefully our coaching staff can get more out of him.

Boston Van 

 

No more to say about this.   We know who got fleeced of their free agents.    We have a much improved forward group.   Our D however is looking not as inspiring.    At least we've got "long defense". 

Edited Tuesday at 04:57 PM by IBatch

[NewbieCanuckFan]

8 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 

Allvin.  

Boston Van 

 

No more to say about this.   We know who got fleeced of their free agents.    We have a much improved forward group.   Our D however is looking not as inspiring.    At least we've got "long defense". 

I know I said this before but Petey at 100% in the post-season is better than pretty much any free agent forward signing thus far in the entire league (imho).

[Jester13]

33 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

Hronek can't drive his own line bc you never got a Dman that can skate nor play the minutes with Hughes.

Hughes made Schenn serviceable, so Juulsen and McWard can fill in when testing it out.

[Artemus]

2 hours ago, BC_Hawk said:

Then who plays with Hughes 25 min a night? Myers and Huighes don't gel well...all the other RHD guys don't have great wells.

 

Nux need a Top 4 Dman.

 

I believe that Quinn's TOI is a little less under Tocchet but still a lot of minutes.

Have to take into account that Hughes might, on average, play 5 to 10 minutes a night on the PP. His D partner is typically not playing these minutes with him.

 

 

 

[Artemus]

18 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

and they're slow. 

 

 

 

It's been a few years since I last saw Forbort in game action but I recall that he skated very well for a big man.

 

 

[Blitz-Pix]

4 hours ago, Bell said:

I kinda think Alvin believes D Petey will be in the line up opening night

 

D-Petey is a big, puck moving defenseman that can skate and by most accounts has a great first pass.

If he comes into camp and pushes for a spot then great, if not he'll be close by in Abby getting lots of minutes

playing in all situations. I wouldn't be surprised if we see him in Vancouver this season spotting in for injured players.

 

Kinda expecting him to take Derek Forbort's spot the following season when Forbort's contract is up. 

 

Edited Tuesday at 07:37 PM by Blitz-Pix

[Bell]

4 minutes ago, Blitz-Pix said:

 

D-Petey is a big, puck moving defenseman that can skate and by all accounts has a great first pass.

If he comes into camp and pushes for a spot then great, if not he'll be close by in Abby getting lots of minutes

playing in all situations. I wouldn't be surprised if we see him in Vancouver this season spotting in for injured players.

 

Kinda expecting him to take Derek Forbort's spot the following season when Forbort's contract is up. 

 

And he has the nasty streak 

[CanucksJay]

3 hours ago, BC_Hawk said:

PA had two options at 5m to stabilize the D for 4 years; Roy or Zads.

 

Sign Zads

 

Hughes-Hronek

Zad-Myers (Willander in a few years)

Soucy (D Petterson in a couple Years)-Juulsen/FA/Friedman/etc

 

Same D as last year.....more competition for 3rd pair RHD with inhouse dudes

 

Sign Roy

 

Hughes-Roy

Soucy-Hronek

D Petterson/Friedman/FA/Juulsen/??-  Myers (Willander in a couple years)

 

Solidify RHD side for 4-5 years; create competition on bottom pair (wheer it should be)

 

What we did

 

Hughes-Hronek

Soucy-Myers

Forbort-Des/Juulsen/Friedman/etc

 

Forced to maintain Hughes-Hronek; less talent on LHD; no longterm (3-5 year) solidity. Boooo

 

 

In the end, the money was there......PA spent it on some magic beans.

Huge fan of this management team but I'd have to agree with you here. 

I would be much more confident going into this season with your 1 options. 

 

I wonder what pissed off Z to go sign in Boston for not that much... 

 

Did we really dig our heels in at 4 and say take it or leave it? 

[JayDangles]

3 hours ago, BC_Hawk said:

PA had two options at 5m to stabilize the D for 4 years; Roy or Zads.

 

Sign Zads

 

Hughes-Hronek

Zad-Myers (Willander in a few years)

Soucy (D Petterson in a couple Years)-Juulsen/FA/Friedman/etc

 

Same D as last year.....more competition for 3rd pair RHD with inhouse dudes

 

Sign Roy

 

Hughes-Roy

Soucy-Hronek

D Petterson/Friedman/FA/Juulsen/??-  Myers (Willander in a couple years)

 

Solidify RHD side for 4-5 years; create competition on bottom pair (wheer it should be)

 

What we did

 

Hughes-Hronek

Soucy-Myers

Forbort-Des/Juulsen/Friedman/etc

 

Forced to maintain Hughes-Hronek; less talent on LHD; no longterm (3-5 year) solidity. Boooo

 

 

In the end, the money was there......PA spent it on some magic beans.

Jesus,

 

why is this still so hard for people to figure out....

 

you...cannot...force...a...player...to...sign...in...Vancouver.

 

Clearly Zadorov wanted Boston, and who knows whether we even had a shot at Roy. Stop assuming Management shit the bed because they didnt get a player. Players aren't owned, hence the term "Unrestricted Free Agent" they have the right to chose where they sign.

[King Heffy]

5 hours ago, BC_Hawk said:

If you want Hughes to wheel a bit, it creates a bit of chaos for his partner. My fear is that we would see the old Myers if we tried that. In addition, he has a very hard time playing HUGE minutes. We rode him hard a couple years back (22/23 before Tocchet), and the guy was just beat tired all the time. This would noty have gotten better with 2 years of age.

 

Canucks are short one Top 4 Dman (LHD or RHD). I am ok with Zad leaving, but they needed to replace him; they did not.

They've never looked good when paired together.  Myers really needs a defensive defenceman as a partner.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

6 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

Huge fan of this management team but I'd have to agree with you here. 

I would be much more confident going into this season with your 1 options. 

 

I wonder what pissed off Z to go sign in Boston for not that much... 

 

Did we really dig our heels in at 4 and say take it or leave it? 

 

He wants a top four role. He wasn't getting that role given to him here just like almost every other situation he has been in thus far in his career. He went to Boston because the Canucks were not paying $ 5m per for a bottom pair defenseman. Its that simple.

 

 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

4 hours ago, King Heffy said:

They've never looked good when paired together.  Myers really needs a defensive defenceman as a partner.

 

We have two pairs that have worked well together in Hughes & Hronek along with Soucy & Myers.

 

Would love to have added a more traditional puck mover on the 3rd pair but we shall see.

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

 

We have two pairs that have worked well together in Hughes & Hronek along with Soucy & Myers.

 

Would love to have added a more traditional puck mover on the 3rd pair but we shall see.

Any "puck mover" that is willing to sign for 3rd paring money is going to be a massive liability in the defensive zone.  We have hopefully learned from Hunt, Larsen, Weber, Pouliot, Del Zotto, and understand that this type of player is worse than useless.  Reliable, safe guys on the third pairing with some size is perfect.

[The Duke]

Management wants to bank cap space if they can, so I think they’ll look for an upgrade on D via trade but they should be comfortable starting the year as-is. You don’t need the cup winning roster in October - you need it in May and June.
 

Lots of different options if the bottom 4 struggle to move the puck.  Of the ones not mentioned, maybe McWard or Wolanin leapfrog some of the bigger boys to pair with Forbort or Desharnais/Juuslen.

 

If they can stay out of LTIR relief it’ll go a long way towards having the room for a big name acquisition at the deadline. We all know deals are easier to make if you don’t have to send back too much (or any) cap.

[CanucksJay]

11 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

 

He wants a top four role. He wasn't getting that role given to him here just like almost every other situation he has been in thus far in his career. He went to Boston because the Canucks were not paying $ 5m per for a bottom pair defenseman. Its that simple.

 

 

I just don't see why he couldn't get a top 4 role... 

His icetime during the playoffs would indicate that he s pretty much playing a top 4 role

 

I just find it funny that we discount his playoff performance when in fact, it's a much more intense brand of hockey and its pressure filled where we see a lot of good players wilt. What's even more odd is that his regular season was pretty good too. So we discount that too and we look at his career ice time instead of what we've seen him so in a canucks jersey since he got here midway last season. 

We then give a career inconsistent guy like debrusk max term and 5.5m and say look at his playoff performance... 

Ironic isn't it? 

That being said, I'm sure RT will have Jake playing better and more consistently. If he does, it could be a bargain Miller 2.0 

Edited Wednesday at 01:50 PM by CanucksJay

[CanucksJay]

11 hours ago, The Duke said:

Management wants to bank cap space if they can, so I think they’ll look for an upgrade on D via trade but they should be comfortable starting the year as-is. You don’t need the cup winning roster in October - you need it in May and June.
 

Lots of different options if the bottom 4 struggle to move the puck.  Of the ones not mentioned, maybe McWard or Wolanin leapfrog some of the bigger boys to pair with Forbort or Desharnais/Juuslen.

 

If they can stay out of LTIR relief it’ll go a long way towards having the room for a big name acquisition at the deadline. We all know deals are easier to make if you don’t have to send back too much (or any) cap.

Yup and some teams with good D may fall out of the playoffs and make a trade sooner than later like  Zadorov. We got him so cheap because we had the space to take him without Calgary retaining while other offers might have been comparable or better (Toronto) 

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

I just don't see why he couldn't get a top 4 role... 

His icetime during the playoffs would indicate that he s pretty much playing a top 4 role

 

I just find it funny that we discount his playoff performance when in fact, it's a much more intense brand of hockey and its pressure filled where we see a lot of good players wilt. What's even more odd is that his regular season was pretty good too. So we discount that too and we look at his career ice time instead of what we've seen him so in a canucks jersey since he got here midway last season. 

We then give a career inconsistent guy like debrusk max term and 5.5m and say look at his playoff performance... 

Ironic isn't it? 

That being said, I'm sure RT will have Jake playing better and more consistently. If he does, it could be a bargain Miller 2.0 

I actually would have liked to have seen him play right along side of Hughes, but he never got that chance. It seems Boston has the same idea too. Yes he had defensive lapses but so does every other defenseman, does anybody remember our top defenseman for years, Edler? He had a few "ooops" moments. So did Jovonovski, Ohlund, Bieksa etc.etc.etc.

I agree with the double standard with Debrusk too. I remember when Petey was tearing it up in the beginning of last season and the predictions were going up and up with every good game he had. I remember he was being compared to the elite in the league and he should be getting paid 13m+. 

I have said before I really don't care what a guy does in the regular season because the real season doesn't start until the playoffs begin. 

That is why I am not a fan of the smaller, less physical players because their performance drops and the bigger , physical players usually take over anyway. Nowadays you have to be big and be able to skate. 

I also think Debrusk is going to be good for us, he plays the type of game which suits playoff hockey. As does the other forwards we recently acquired. 

Forbort should be good to , if he can keep up skating wise.

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, EdgarM said:

I actually would have liked to have seen him play right along side of Hughes, but he never got that chance. It seems Boston has the same idea too. Yes he had defensive lapses but so does every other defenseman, does anybody remember our top defenseman for years, Edler? He had a few "ooops" moments. So did Jovonovski, Ohlund, Bieksa etc.etc.etc.

I agree with the double standard with Debrusk too. I remember when Petey was tearing it up in the beginning of last season and the predictions were going up and up with every good game he had. I remember he was being compared to the elite in the league and he should be getting paid 13m+. 

I have said before I really don't care what a guy does in the regular season because the real season doesn't start until the playoffs begin. 

That is why I am not a fan of the smaller, less physical players because their performance drops and the bigger , physical players usually take over anyway. Nowadays you have to be big and be able to skate. 

I also think Debrusk is going to be good for us, he plays the type of game which suits playoff hockey. As does the other forwards we recently acquired. 

Forbort should be good to , if he can keep up skating wise.

Im most nervous about the lack of foot speed on D. Skating is the biggest weakness for both Forbort and Desharnais. 

We got faster on forward but slower on D. Forbort is a downgrade on Cole and Desharnais is a big downgrade on Z. 

That being said, we didn't have Z until mid season last year. We have cap space and time to find the right guy on D but there no way we will roll into the playoffs as is. We should keep faith in the management. They've been so good so far. 

Who knows, we might get a true 2-3D at the deadline a la Hronek 

[Attila Umbrus]

15 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Any "puck mover" that is willing to sign for 3rd paring money is going to be a massive liability in the defensive zone.  We have hopefully learned from Hunt, Larsen, Weber, Pouliot, Del Zotto, and understand that this type of player is worse than useless.  Reliable, safe guys on the third pairing with some size is perfect.

YUCK 

 

This is honestly the perfect time for Hirose to shine.

 

Last year he was injured a lot. Hopefully he comes in healed and healthy and gets a full summer of training for him.

 

He needs to pack on some muscle. If he can add 10 lbs he could have a crack at the opening day lineup.

 

He has sublime skill, he’s our most affordable option for a puck moving defender.

 

Rooting for him! I may even pick him as my dark horse next year…maybe…lol

[Artemus]

31 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Im most nervous about the lack of foot speed on D. Skating is the biggest weakness for both Forbort and Desharnais. 

We got faster on forward but slower on D. Forbort is a downgrade on Cole and Desharnais is a big downgrade on Z. 

That being said, we didn't have Z until mid season last year. We have cap space and time to find the right guy on D but there no way we will roll into the playoffs as is. We should keep faith in the management. They've been so good so far. 

Who knows, we might get a true 2-3D at the deadline a la Hronek 

 

Interesting observations. Quite different than mine. I think that our D-corps with the addition of Forbort and Desharnais is faster than last year's version or at least on par.

 

Ian Cole was not fleet of foot. I think that Desharnais will prove to be more effective. Not to mention cheaper. Probably a staple on the PK.

 

Zadorov was mobile for a big man. I really liked Big Z.

Forbort, though he doesn't have the upside and the intangibles that Z brought, he is a better skater than Zadorov.

It's been a few years since I watched Forbort play but what I remember about him was his high end skating.

The trick for Forbort will be staying healthy. IIRC, Forbort much like Soucy, spends a fair bit of time in sick bay.

 

Then we have the four holdovers on defence from last year. Hughes, Hronek, Myers and Soucy.

Hughes is a very good skater.

Hronek, IMO, is an above average skater.

Myers and Soucy both skate well for big men.

 

I don't believe that our defence corps is as good as the one that we finished last year with but I am not nervous about a lack of foot speed.