Mass Shootings/Guns Thread

[D.B Cooper]

16 minutes ago, greenbean30 said:

I'm a gun owner, I like my guns, they are used for hunting and target shooting and I don't think all guns should be banned. I also agree with gun control and the need for rules to be in place.

 

Being a gun owner, I think this is absolutely stupid...

I was just about to say this exact thing.  
 

Guns are awesome.  
Not all guns are necessary and not everyone should have them. 
This vending machine is unnecessary access and is dumb af. 

[the destroyer of worlds]

Still faces civil liabilities.   

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/12/arts/rust-trial-pause-alec-baldwin-shooting.html?unlocked_article_code=1.6k0.cWfX.dL7pv3n3oLtH&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Rust’ Case Against Alec Baldwin Is Dismissed Over Withheld Evidence

The involuntary manslaughter case against Mr. Baldwin fell apart after an envelope of ammunition that the prosecution had not shown the defense was brought into the courtroom.

[Ghostsof1915]

On 7/10/2024 at 11:52 AM, Bob Long said:

 

I want our Canadian gun rights regulars to square this one up for me. 

You have to show your firearms licence, be it a gun store, or Canadian Tire to buy ammo, in Canada.

Pretty sure you'll never see a vending machine like that here.

Unless they have a scanner, then what's next? Beer, Vodka Cooler machines that gives you a can only if your ID scans and you are 19+?

The order in council is not stopping gun violence in Canada. Because people will just smuggle arms and ammo from the US.

Just put more money into mental health, weapons smuggling, and tip lines for when people buy a large domestic sedan and paint it to look like a cop car. And have friends and family buy ammo and weapons for unhinged people.

 

 

 

[nuckin_futz]

2 hours ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

Still faces civil liabilities.   

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/12/arts/rust-trial-pause-alec-baldwin-shooting.html?unlocked_article_code=1.6k0.cWfX.dL7pv3n3oLtH&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Rust’ Case Against Alec Baldwin Is Dismissed Over Withheld Evidence

The involuntary manslaughter case against Mr. Baldwin fell apart after an envelope of ammunition that the prosecution had not shown the defense was brought into the courtroom.

 

 

[Gurn]

I'd say within 5 minutes of the decision from the Judge, the legal team for Hannah Gutierrez-Reed,  were on the way to file an appeal of her 18 month sentence.

Honestly was not a fan of them going after Baldwin.

I kind of wonder if his portrayals of a certain orange guy, ticked off someone up the food chain, enough to put their finger on the scale of justice?

[Sharpshooter]

1 hour ago, Gurn said:

I'd say within 5 minutes of the decision from the Judge, the legal team for Hannah Gutierrez-Reed,  were on the way to file an appeal of her 18 month sentence.

Honestly was not a fan of them going after Baldwin.

I kind of wonder if his portrayals of a certain orange guy, ticked off someone up the food chain, enough to put their finger on the scale of justice?

From what I’ve read. It was Procedural. 
 

By the book. Prosecutors can’t withhold evidence ever. Full disclosure always. 
 

They fucked up. 

[Ghostsof1915]

11 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

From what I’ve read. It was Procedural. 
 

By the book. Prosecutors can’t withhold evidence ever. Full disclosure always. 
 

They fucked up. 

You'd think after OJ, the manuals on handling evidence were pretty comprehensive?

[Kootenay Gold]

17 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

By the book. Prosecutors can’t withhold evidence ever. Full disclosure always. 
 

They fucked up. 

So; the question in my mind is whether it was accidental or intentional to withhold that evidence. Makes one wonder.

 

[RupertKBD]

In the many times I have argued with pro-gun folks, something that often gets brought up is the "slippery slope" argument...the claim being that if you take away assault rifles, you'll next be coming for hunting rifles.....

 

Of course this is fear mongering nonsense, but as it happens, there is something to the slippery slope argument.....it just "slips" in the opposite direction. At least, it does in the US....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/kansas-judge-throws-out-machine-gun-possession-charge-cites-second-amendment/ar-AA1pk9rf?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=7d45814bc4ee4569bb6b2f053d0bb80f&ei=40

 

A federal judge in Kansas has tossed out a machine gun possession charge and questioned if bans on the weapons violate the Second Amendment.

If upheld on appeal, the ruling by U.S. District Judge John W. Broomes in Wichita could have a sweeping impact on the regulation of machine guns, including homemade automatic weapons that many police and prosecutors blame for fueling gun violence.

Broomes, an appointee of President Donald Trump, on Wednesday dismissed two machine gun possession counts against Tamori Morgan, who was indicted last year. Morgan was accused of possessing a model AM-15 .300-caliber machine gun and a machine gun conversion device known as a “Glock switch” that can make a semi-automatic weapon fire like a machine gun.

“The court finds that the Second Amendment applies to the weapons charged because they are ‘bearable arms’ within the original meaning of the amendment,” Broomes wrote. He added that the government “has the burden to show that the regulation is consistent with this nation’s historical firearm regulation tradition.”

As of Friday, no appeal had been filed. A spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney's Office in Wichita declined comment.

Federal prosecutors in the case said in earlier court filings that the “Supreme Court has made clear that regulations of machineguns fall outside the Second Amendment.”

A June 2022 Supreme Court ruling in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen was seen as a major expansion of gun rights. The ruling said Americans have a right to carry firearms in public for self-defense.

Jacob Charles, an associate law professor at Pepperdine University who tracks Second Amendment cases, said the Kansas ruling is direct fallout from the Bruen decision.

“It gives lower court judges the ability to pick and choose the historical record in a way that they think the Second Amendment should be read,” Charles said.

Charles expects Broomes' ruling to be overturned, citing Supreme Court precedent allowing for regulation of machine guns.

Eric Ruben, a fellow at the Brennan Center and an associate law professor of Southern Methodist University, agreed.

“As far as I know, this is the first time in American history that a machine gun ban has been found unconstitutional in its application,” Ruben said.

[Satchmo]

5 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

In the many times I have argued with pro-gun folks, something that often gets brought up is the "slippery slope" argument...the claim being that if you take away assault rifles, you'll next be coming for hunting rifles.....

 

Of course this is fear mongering nonsense, but as it happens, there is something to the slippery slope argument.....it just "slips" in the opposite direction. At least, it does in the US....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/kansas-judge-throws-out-machine-gun-possession-charge-cites-second-amendment/ar-AA1pk9rf?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=7d45814bc4ee4569bb6b2f053d0bb80f&ei=40

 

A federal judge in Kansas has tossed out a machine gun possession charge and questioned if bans on the weapons violate the Second Amendment.

If upheld on appeal, the ruling by U.S. District Judge John W. Broomes in Wichita could have a sweeping impact on the regulation of machine guns, including homemade automatic weapons that many police and prosecutors blame for fueling gun violence.

Broomes, an appointee of President Donald Trump, on Wednesday dismissed two machine gun possession counts against Tamori Morgan, who was indicted last year. Morgan was accused of possessing a model AM-15 .300-caliber machine gun and a machine gun conversion device known as a “Glock switch” that can make a semi-automatic weapon fire like a machine gun.

“The court finds that the Second Amendment applies to the weapons charged because they are ‘bearable arms’ within the original meaning of the amendment,” Broomes wrote. He added that the government “has the burden to show that the regulation is consistent with this nation’s historical firearm regulation tradition.”

As of Friday, no appeal had been filed. A spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney's Office in Wichita declined comment.

Federal prosecutors in the case said in earlier court filings that the “Supreme Court has made clear that regulations of machineguns fall outside the Second Amendment.”

A June 2022 Supreme Court ruling in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen was seen as a major expansion of gun rights. The ruling said Americans have a right to carry firearms in public for self-defense.

Jacob Charles, an associate law professor at Pepperdine University who tracks Second Amendment cases, said the Kansas ruling is direct fallout from the Bruen decision.

“It gives lower court judges the ability to pick and choose the historical record in a way that they think the Second Amendment should be read,” Charles said.

Charles expects Broomes' ruling to be overturned, citing Supreme Court precedent allowing for regulation of machine guns.

Eric Ruben, a fellow at the Brennan Center and an associate law professor of Southern Methodist University, agreed.

“As far as I know, this is the first time in American history that a machine gun ban has been found unconstitutional in its application,” Ruben said.

The second amendment (1791) did not foresee machine guns.   Can I carry a small nuclear device in Kansas?  If I can fit it in my arms I should be ok right? 

[RupertKBD]

17 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

The second amendment (1791) did not foresee machine guns.   Can I carry a small nuclear device in Kansas?  If I can fit it in my arms I should be ok right? 

 

Exactly my point. AFAIK, Machine guns have been banned for years....now conservative judges want to change that.....

 

Hence my "slippery slope" comment. If Machine guns are now okay, does that mean rocket launchers next?  Grenades?

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

38 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

The second amendment (1791) did not foresee machine guns.   Can I carry a small nuclear device in Kansas?  If I can fit it in my arms I should be ok right? 

People were still jamming balls wrapped in rags down their muskets at this point. The modern bullet wasn't invented till almost 100 years later. The second amendment folks wouldn't have had a clue about what was to come as far as advances in weaponry. But one would hope they would have had the common sense to adjust the amendment once they did. 

[Satchmo]

2 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

People were still jamming balls wrapped in rags down their muskets at this point. The modern bullet wasn't invented till almost 100 years later. The second amendment folks wouldn't have had a clue about what was to come as far as advances in weaponry. But one would hope they would have had the common sense to adjust the amendment once they did. 

They could have at least sent it to a professional editor for a touch up.   Even a high school English teacher could have made the required improvements to clear the ambiguity.

 

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

Some state-ratified versions, such as Maryland's, omitted the first or final commas:[31][33][25]

 

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

The ratification acts from New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and South Carolina contained only one comma, but with differences in capitalization.

 

Pennsylvania's act states:[34]

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.[35][36]

 

The ratification act from New Jersey has no commas:[31]

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

 

Commas or no commas we are still left wondering WTF does it mean?

[RupertKBD]

15 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

They could have at least sent it to a professional editor for a touch up.   Even a high school English teacher could have made the required improvements to clear the ambiguity.

 

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

Some state-ratified versions, such as Maryland's, omitted the first or final commas:[31][33][25]

 

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

The ratification acts from New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and South Carolina contained only one comma, but with differences in capitalization.

 

Pennsylvania's act states:[34]

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.[35][36]

 

The ratification act from New Jersey has no commas:[31]

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

 

Commas or no commas we are still left wondering WTF does it mean?

 

One thing we know for sure....."well regulated" seems to have been omitted in all of these pro-gun rulings.

 

Instead, all of these judges interpret is as "unregulated".....

[Gurn]

Hey, kids, welcome back to school.

Hope most of you make it to graduation;

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/apalachee-high-school-shooting-georgia-09-04-24/index.html

At least two people were killed in the shooting at Apalachee High School in Winder, Georgia, on Wednesday, a law enforcement source briefed on the latest from the scene told CNN.

One person is in custody, according to a statement from the Barrow County Sheriff’s Office.

----------------------------------

more at link- multiple stories.

[Gurn]

4 dead, 9 injured:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/four-killed-nine-injured-in-shooting-at-apalachee-high-school-in-georgia/ar-AA1pZZdh?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=71edeaccac2b45b99bd47c99e7a464e4&ei=13

"

Four people were killed and an additional nine were injured in a shooting on Wednesday at a high school in Georgia, in an area outside Atlanta, the New York Post reported.

At around 17:30 IDT, multiple law enforcement agencies were sent to the Apalachee High School in Winder following reports of an active shooting incident. After approximately an hour, law enforcement was able to fully secure the area and allow students to leave the school.

-------------------------------

Thoughts and prayers have been given---- so at least the dead and injured have that going for them.

 

[24K]

Well guess school is back in session. 

[-dlc-]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/school-shooting-georgia-apalachee-high-school/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab4c&eid=23fb5a24dfa62b6a8089ea89c6520ae4a5fd6481

 

My good God, make it stop. Those students who were lucky enough to survive will carry the shock of this with them and be forever changed.

 

[RupertKBD]

3 hours ago, -dlc- said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/school-shooting-georgia-apalachee-high-school/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab4c&eid=23fb5a24dfa62b6a8089ea89c6520ae4a5fd6481

 

My good God, make it stop. Those students who were lucky enough to survive will carry the shock of this with them and be forever changed.

 

 

I'm reluctant to turn this into a religious discussion, but it drives me crazy that this kid credits God for saving his life....

 

If "God" actually GAF about the lives of these kids, he'd intervene before the shooting starts, FFS....

[Gurn]

28 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I'm reluctant to turn this into a religious discussion, but it drives me crazy that this kid credits God for saving his life....

 

If "God" actually GAF about the lives of these kids, he'd intervene before the shooting starts, FFS....

Trump did the same- but apparently god didn't give a fuck about

the firefighter that died, when trump did not

or the 2 students and 2 teachers that did die.

 

Given it is a kid speaking, and having gone through some major trauma- I get it, but..... it does kind of get me to.

[Alflives]

35 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

I'm reluctant to turn this into a religious discussion, but it drives me crazy that this kid credits God for saving his life....

 

If "God" actually GAF about the lives of these kids, he'd intervene before the shooting starts, FFS....

Exactly! God should whisper to the crazies in government down there that He wants guns banned. But God only tells these people what they want to hear, of course. 

[BabyCakes]

On 8/23/2024 at 1:21 PM, Satchmo said:

The second amendment (1791) did not foresee machine guns.   Can I carry a small nuclear device in Kansas?  If I can fit it in my arms I should be ok right? 

I've had this very discussion with (Canada) pro second amendment rights supporters who say that since the right to bear arms has to do with defending yourself from the government and as their technology gets better so should yours, it's fair game.  I think it's still a crazy misrepresentation but that's how they justify it

[the destroyer of worlds]

59 minutes ago, BabyCakes said:

I've had this very discussion with (Canada) pro second amendment rights supporters who say that since the right to bear arms has to do with defending yourself from the government and as their technology gets better so should yours, it's fair game.  I think it's still a crazy misrepresentation but that's how they justify it

Sad thing is the 2nd has nothing to do with defending yourself from the government.  It's actually the opposite.   It's about securing the State.  It was about ensuring there were citizens who could bring their muskets when called to serve in the militia.  You know, the first part of the 2nd that current gun nuts and the gun lobby has pushed to ignore.

 

The whiskey rebellion is where the militia system was used.  Washington led them.  Gun nuts love to ignore that.

[the destroyer of worlds]

 

[stawns]

7 hours ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

 

 

None of it matters, they'll never waver and kids will go on getting killed at alarming rates