Kevin Biestra Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 (edited) In recent years the HHOF has corrected some slights that went unaddressed for many years, in some cases decades. Rogie Vachon, Doug Wilson, Pierre Turgeon, Jeremy Roenick, Mike Vernon, Tom Barrasso, etc. And possibly lowering the bar below some of my candidates with Kevin Lowe. I'm just ignoring for now the influx of new candidates that will enter eligibility in the years ahead... Corey Perry, Sid the Old Man, Ovechkin the Grey, Stamkos, etc. We'll induct four a year until the situation is corrected and equilibrium has been attained. I'll add my cases for the later years but I am just posting this unfinished so I don't lose all the work... Anyway, have at it ladies and gents. Agree, disagree, tear it apart... YEAR 1 Bernie Nicholls - GP: 1127. Points: 1209. - One of only about a half a dozen players to ever score 70 goals in a season and the same for 150 points. Three 100 point seasons and two more with 95 or more. Randy Carlyle (D) - GP: 1055. Points: 647. - One of very few Norris winners to not be in the Hall. Also one of pretty few defensemen to ever score 80 points in a season. 1st Team All Star. JC Tremblay (D) - NHL GP: 796. NHL Points: 363. WHA GP: 454. WHA Points: 424. Combined Games and Points: 1250, 787. - 5 Stanley Cups, Norris finalist twice (five seasons in top 5), 1st Team and 2nd Team NHL All Star, then the best defenseman in WHA history (2 of their Norris Trophies and 4x post season All Star). John Ross Roach (G) - GP: 491. W: 219. - The longest slighted player on the list and maybe of all time, Roach played from 1921 to 1935. He was 5'5". Led the NHL in wins twice, was a 1st Team All Star when that was the Vezina Trophy, was a Hart Trophy finalist and won one Stanley Cup. YEAR 2 - the year of the Flyer Ron Hextall (G) - GP: 608. Wins: 296. - Vezina Trophy, Conn Smythe Trophy and the only goalie NHL to be his team's enforcer. Never mind the goal scoring as well. Guy was one of a kind. Tim Kerr - GP: 655. Points: 674. - A member of the Lindros / Bure / Neely club where injuries shortened his career massively...but not enough that he shouldn't be in the Hall. Four straight 50 goal seasons, Masterton Trophy for dealing with his litany of injuries. Three straight years voted top three at his position in the NHL. His Flyers went to the Cup final in 1985 and 1987. Brian Propp - GP: 1016. Points: 1004. - He was right there with Tim Kerr and also went to the 1980 Final with the Flyers. And 1990 and 1991, five times in all. A playoff legend...if you acquired him that season, you were going to the final. 148 career playoff points. Also part of the Canada Cup teams in the 80s. Rick Tocchet - GP: 1144. Points: 952. PIM: 2970. - Along with Tiger Williams one of extremely few players to score ~30 goals and have ~300 penalty minutes in the same season. 109 points in 1992-93 and also a Stanley Cup in 1992. YEAR 3 Dale Hunter - GP: 1407. Points: 1020. PIM: 3565. - Nobody comes close to his combined achievements in points and penalty minutes (2nd all time). He has suffered long enough for the Pierre Turgeon hit. Rod Brind'Amour - GP: 1484. Points: 1184. - Rod the Bod. That many points AND two Selke Trophies as best defensive forward in the NHL. And captained the Hurricanes to a Stanley Cup. Dave Taylor - GP: 1111. Points: 1069. - Member of the legendary Triple Crown Line with Marcel Dionne. When Gretzky was traded to the Kings he insisted on being the assistant captain to Dave Taylor. Two 100 point seasons, five with 90 or more. Won the Clancy and Masterton Trophies. Mike Liut (G) - GP: 663. Wins: 293. - One of the only players to ever beat prime Wayne Gretzky for the NHL MVP, winning the Pearson / Lindsay Award in 1981, voted better than Gretzky by the NHL players. Was a goalie for Team Canada in the Canada Cup days. Hart finalist twice. Post-season All Star Team twice. The 1st All Star Team was what we had instead of the Vezina Trophy back when he had that honor in 1981. Eight seasons where he received Hart, Vezina or post-season All Star Team votes. YEAR 4 Alexander Mogilny - GP: 990. Points: 1032. - Very few players have ever matched his 76 goals in one season. Post-season all star team twice, a Lady Byng Trophy and a Stanley Cup. Rick Middleton - GP: 1005. Points: 988. - Bruins legend who bridged the gap between Orr / Esposito and Bourque / Neely. Two 100 point seasons and a Lady Byng Trophy (and a finalist five times). Theoren Fleury - GP: 1084. Points: 1088. - Should be in the Hall of Fame just for making it to the NHL at his height and what he went through in junior. Twice in the top 5 for the Hart Trophy. One Stanley Cup. Was one of the most recognizable faces of the NHL during his career. Ivan Hlinka - GP: 137. Points: 123. - Like Vaclav Nedomansky or Vladislav Tretiak, he gets in primarily for his foreign work, a true legend of Czechoslovakian hockey. However in the NHL he had a run to the Cup final with the Canucks in 1982 and also held the team's rookie scoring record for a long time. YEAR 5 Neal Broten - GP: 1099. Points: 923. - Easily a first ballot US Hall of Fame guy but an eventual Hockey HOF guy. The best player to come from the 1980 Olympics Miracle on Ice team that beat Tretiak and the Soviets, Broten went on to a great NHL career. Had 105 points in 1985-86 and was instrumental in winning the 1995 Stanley Cup with the Devils. Bobby Smith - GP: 1077. Points: 1036. - Calder Trophy winner in 1979, Cup winner in 1986 and two more runs to the finals with North Stars. 114 points in 1981-82. 160 career playoff points. Doug Jarvis - GP: 964. Points: 403. - About the closest thing to Bob Gainey that wasn't Bob Gainey. A Selke and Masterton Trophy winner and for decades the NHL's ironman record holder with 964 straight games. Also part of the Canadiens dynasty with four straight Stanley Cups. Steve Larmer - GP: 1006. Points: 1012. - For many years the only man to really challenge the Jarvis ironman record with 884 straight games. Cup winner with the Rangers in 1994. YEAR 6 Reggie Leach - GP: 934. Points: 666. - This guy should have been in ages ago. Led the NHL with 61 goals one year, then set the record for playoff goals in one year with 16, winning the Conn Smythe Trophy as well. Also may have been the first First Nations superstar in the NHL. Chris Osgood (G) - GP: 744. Wins: 401. Curtis Joseph (G) - GP: 943. Wins: 454. Tiger Williams - GP: 962. Points: 513. PIM: 3971. - The NHL's career penalty minute record holder with a bullet. But also an NHL All Star. 35 goals and way over 300 penalty minutes one year. More career goals than Henrik Sedin. No floodgates will be opened because he was literally one of a kind and there will never be another. In his own way, was the face of the NHL. YEAR 7 Peter Bondra - GP: 1081. Points: 892. Goals: 503. - Twice led the NHL in goals with what would have been Rocket Richard Trophies a few years later. Two 50 goal seasons and one more that would have been but for the shortened year due to the 1994-95 labor dispute. Also led the league in PPG, SHG and GWG. John Tonelli - NHL GP: 1028. NHL Points: 836. WHA GP: 224. WHA Points: 150. Total Games and Points: 1252, 986. - Twice received Hart Trophy votes (as the player most valuable to his team in the NHL) with the Islanders dynasty on a team that had Bossy, Trottier, Potvin etc. 100 points in 1985-86. 2nd Team All Star twice. Four Stanley Cups. Was voted the best forward ahead of prime Gretzky at the Canada Cup. Marc Tardif - NHL GP: 517. NHL Points: 401. WHA GP: 446. WHA Points: 666. Total GP and Points: 963, 1067. - The first player to be inducted primarily for his work in the underappreciated WHA. He led the league in scoring twice, with 148 and 154 points in one season (one with 71 goals). His mantle is covered with year end trophies from the WHA...two of their Hart Trophies, two of their Art Ross. Also two Stanley Cups and one AVCO Cup (the WHA's Stanley Cup). Real Cloutier - NHL GP: 318. NHL Points: 344. WHA GP: 369. WHA Points: 566. Total GP and Points: 687, 910. - Joins Marc Tardif with the same honor. The thing with Cloutier is...he was an elite NHLer. He had 89 and 97 points in NHL seasons...and in both of those seasons played only 67 games. Both would have easily crested 100 points with room to spare. Led the WHA in scoring twice (141 and 129 points) and had another 129 point season, and a season with 75 goals. WHA post-season All Star Team and 100 points four times in a row. YEAR 8 Vladimir Krutov - NHL GP: 61. NHL Points: 34. USSR GP: 438. USSR Points: 503. - Soviet seasons were about 45 games so you have to more or less double his USSR totals to understand what they mean relative to the NHL (by comparison Larionov at a lesser 434 points in 457 USSR games for his career). Krutov is the only member of the famed KLM Line not to be in the Hockey HOF, though is already in the IIHF HOF. Tretiak is in the HOF with no NHL games. A mediocre single season shouldn't hurt Krutov compared to not playing at all in the league, and he wasn't awful by any means. Just didn't set the NHL on fire like Larionov and Makarov. Two Olympics golds and a silver, five WC golds and also gold at the 1981 Canada Cup, beating the hosts including Gretzky. Charlie Simmer - GP: 712. Points: 711. - The final member of the Kings' famous Triple Crown Line to be inducted. A Masterton Trophy adds to his case, bolstering his career statistics which would have him in the Bure / Neely / Lindros shortened career club. Back to back 56-goal (and 100 point) seasons and 1st Team All Star berths. Also part of the 1982 Miracle on Manchester where the Kings made perhaps the greatest comeback in NHL history to beat Gretzky's Oilers in the playoffs. Rick Martin - GP: 685. Points: 701. - The first winger from the famous French Connection line to join Gilbert Perreault in the Hall of Fame. Back to back 52 goal seasons and three more with 44-49 goals. 1st Team All Star twice, 2nd Team All Star twice. Very few players have made the post-season All Star Teams four times and not been enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Markus Naslund - GP: 1117. Points: 869. - Even more rare perhaps to not be in the Hall is a player who was a post-season All Star three times and also won an NHL MVP award. Almost everyone who wins the Pearson or Hart at some point gets in. Naslund was also a three-time 1st Team All Star (in a row). Peaked at 104 points. The longtime Canucks captain is a bit short on career numbers though not horribly so, but is missing out on playoff success and could have used some Olympic medals too. We are getting to the borderline cases with Markus and Simmer / Martin above who have Neely / Bure type career numbers without quite the same run of dominance. YEAR 9 Bobby Smith - GP: 1077. Points: 1036. Playoff Points: 160. - The one stat that really seems to get overlooked in these discussions in playoff points. Bobby Smith (1979 Calder Trophy Winner) retired over 30 years ago and is still 23rd all time in playoff points (tied with Gordie Howe and Mike Bossy), and was probably in the top ten when he retired. Won the Stanley Cup with the Canadiens and made three more runs to the final with the North Stars and Montreal. Andre Lacroix - NHL GP: 325. NHL Points: 198. WHA GP: 551. WHA Points: 798. Total GP and Points: 876, 996. - The third player to be elected based primarily on his work in the WHA, where he retired as the league's all time leader scorer, in addition to winning two of their Art Ross Trophies. Had an incredible season 1974-75 with 106 assists and 147 points. He was also 5th for the Calder Trophy in his rookie year in the NHL before joining the WHA and becoming its greatest scorer. Glenn Resch (G) - GP: 571. Wins: 231. - A two time 2nd Team All-Star in the NHL and 3rd in voting a 3rd time. This was when this was the Vezina Trophy, so effectively a three time finalist. Had one career as the starter for the Islanders leading up to their dynasty and then a second career as the veteran leader around whom the New Jersey Devils were built when the team first appeared in the NHL. Kind of like Vegas and Marc Andre Fleury. Resch won the Masterton Trophy in this role and also received Hart Trophy votes as an aging goalie backstopping the Devils. Twice led the NHL in Save Percentage, and an additional time in the playoffs. Finished second for the Calder Trophy as rookie of the year. Had eight different seasons where he received votes for the Vezina, Hart or post-season All Star Team. Gary Suter (D) - GP: 1145. Points: 844. - He still sits 15th all time in NHL defensemen scoring and is part of an even shorter list of defensemen to score >90 points in one season. He was the closest thing perhaps to Scott Stevens that wasn't Scott Stevens in his day. Only he and Sergei Gonchar are defensemen with 800 points who aren't in the Hall of Fame, and the proportion of those in the Hall wit 600 points or more is pretty high...a third maybe once you get to 600. Was a Norris Finalist, a 2nd Team All Star, A Calder Trophy winner, a Stanley Cup winner in 1989 and also a finalist in 1986. Yeah the Gretzky hit sucked but so did Dale Hunter's on Pierre Turgeon and we forgave him eventually. Also an excellent career in all of Olympics, World Cups and Canada Cups. YEAR 10 Ken Hodge (Sr.) - GP: 880. Points: 800. - The best of the Bobby Orr Bruins who is not in the Hall of Fame. Hodge was a two-time 1st Team All Star and there for both of Boston's Cups. Also two 100-point seasons and his son Ken Jr. was an absolutely terrific rookie in around 1990 or so (but flamed out of the league afterward). Led the league in playoff goals for one of those Stanley Cups (and penalty minutes). John LeClair - GP: 967. Points: 819. - A member of the Legion of Doom line with Eric Lindros, it is not often considered that Lindros made the post-season All Star Team twice in his career. LeClair was named to it FIVE times (two 1sts and three 2nds). Pretty hard to say he was not the league's best left wing during that time, though it was a tight race between him, Paul Kariya and Keith Tkachuk. Also won the last Canadian Stanley Cup in 1993 with Montreal before really making his name with the Flyers. People don't really think of LeClair in the same echelon as most Hall of Famers but...come on, five times as top two in the league at his position. Keith Tkachuk - GP: 1201. Points: 1065. PIM: 2219. - One of the great power forwards during the league's golden era for that kind of player. Twice a post-season All Star and led the league with 52 goals one year (would be a Rocket Richard Trophy if it had existed then and they should probably be retroactively awarded). One of the all time greats with Dale Hunter, Gary Roberts, Rick Tocchet etc. in terms of meeting major thresholds in both points and penalty minutes. Sergei Gonchar (D) - GP: 1301. Points: 811. - He and Gary Suter would leave no defensemen with 800 points outside the Hall of Fame. Twice a 2nd Team All Star as a top four defenseman in the NHL. Five seasons in the top six for the Norris Trophy. I figure you have to multiply a defenseman's points by about 1.5 to compare them to forwards (Orr and Coffey now start to compete with Gretzky for a season, as do Coffey and Bourque for career). So Gonchar would be at about 1200 if he were a forward and that with two All Star Team berths would be a no brainer. YEAR 11 Butch Goring - GP: 1107. Points: 888. - I figure this key member of the Islanders dynasty probably has a bit of a better case than Kevin Lowe. Lowe was a solid part of the Oilers' many Cups without any one great individual regular season. Well, that's forward Butch Goring except he won the Conn Smythe Tropht as the Playoff MVP in 1981 and also has a Lady Byng and a Masterton Trophy. That's three major trophies (one of them among the kings of trophies) and four consecutive Stanley Cups. He also had five years in the top four in voting for the Lady Byng. Brad McCrimmon (D) - GP: 1222. Points: 403. - McCrimmon is 10th all time in NHL history in career +/- at +448. Like Rod Langway, he had some offensive ability but would be in primarily for his work as a defensive defenseman. He was +86 for the season in 1985-86, was a 2nd Team All Star in 1987-88 (and led the league in +/-) and won the Stanley Cup with Calgary in 1989, though he is largely remembered for his runs to the final with the Flyers. Died in the tragic Russian KHL plane crash as the head coach some years ago. Craig Ramsay - GP: 1070. Points: 672. - I'm going way off book with this recommendation. The 1984-85 Selke Trophy winner as the league's best defensive forward, Ramsay was a Selke finalist six times, which is the same number of finalist appearances as Hall of Famer Guy Carbonneau and is the 2nd most in NHL history, trailing only Patrice Bergeron. Ramsay finished 2nd for the Selke Trophy three times in addition to his win. His ironman streak of 776 games was also a legendary accomplishment and +324 for his career has him among the NHL's all time leaders. It's a travesty that his jersey isn't retired in Buffalo. Anders Hedberg - NHL GP: 465. NHL Points: 397. WHA GP: 286. WHA Points: 458. Total GP and Points: 751, 855. - Probably the last inductee to enter based primarily on his work in the WHA. In his four WHA seasons he was a 1st Team All Star three times and a 2nd Team All Star once, and also won the Rookie of the Year. In all four seasons he had at least 50 goals, including leading the league with 70 one year. He also led the league with +60 one season and was +60 another year, never dipping below +38. His point totals ranged from 100 points in a season to 131 and he won two AVCO Cups (the WHA's Stanley Cup). In the NHL he also won the Masterton Trophy. YEAR 12 Jean-Guy Talbot (D) - GP: 1066. Points: 265. Playoff GP: 151. Playoff Points: 30. - A 1st Team All Star and Norris Trophy finalist, Talbot holds the all time NHL record for games played in the Stanley Cup Final by a defenseman with 55, which ties him with Gordie Howe for 6th all time by any player. He also has 7 Stanley Cup rings. And played in 6 All Star Games. Claude Provost - GP: 1005. Points: 589. Playoff Games: 126. Playoff Points: 63. - This guy is even more slighted and overlooked than Talbot. Nine Stanley Cup rings and 11 All Star Games. In addition to which he was also a 1st Team All Star and won the Masterton Trophy. Charlie Huddy (D) - GP: 1017. Points: 453. Playoff Games: 183. Playoff Points: 85. - If Kevin Lowe is in, he should be in. Kevin Lowe had 6 Stanley Cups and peaked at 5th for the Norris Trophy. Huddy has 5 Cups and was 6th for the Norris twice. He led the NHL in +/- with +61 in 1982-83, and he is third all time in NHL history in career playoff +/- which is basically a three horse race for 1st place between Huddy, Kurri and Larry Robinson. Claude Lemieux - GP: 1215. Points: 786. Playoff GP: 234. Playoff Points: 158. Playoff Goals: 80. - Can you get in just for being a playoff beast? He peaked in the regular season at 41 goals and 81 points...but won 4 Stanley Cups and one Conn Smythe Trophy as playoff MVP of the league. He also led the league in playoff goals twice. Come playoff time, this guy has the equivalent of two Rocket Richard Trophies and a Hart. He is 5th on the all time list in NHL history for playoff games played, one game less than Mark Messier. His 80 playoff goals are 9th all time. Names who got pretty close for one or more reasons... Vladimir Konstantinov (two legendary seasons as a top 2-4 defenseman in the NHL, and some great showings for Russia at the World Championships. He was just cut down in his career a little too soon and joined the NHL fairly young without a complete Hall of Fame body of work already behind him in Russia like Fetisov or Larionov or Makarov) Rene Robert (last member of the legendary French Connection line) Kent Nilsson (easily the best season in Flames history...a forgotten name but a scoring legend) Paul Henderson (his international work needs no introduction) Vincent Damphousse (stealthily put up some Andreychuk style career numbers just with consistency, and an All Star Game MVP) Tim Thomas (all he had to do was play a few more seasons, even badly, just doesn't have the career numbers at all. Still an amazing run for a guy whose career basically started at 30) John Vanbiesbrouck Rick MacLeish (Bill Barber sort of opens the door, he led the entire league in playoff scoring for BOTH of the Bobby Clarke Flyers Cups, had a 50 and a 49 goal season) Andy Moog (similar career arc to Glenn Resch but became more elite as a starter in Boston in his second act) Brian "You're a Titfucker" Bellows Kirk Muller (the guy picked right after Mario Lemieux, like Mario captained a team to a Stanley Cup win) Gary Roberts (probably the best third act of a career ever after being completely written off to career ending injury...maybe Patrick Kane will give him a run now, and way up there with guys like Tocchet and Dale Hunter in terms of points + PIMs) Pete Mahovlich (way better than you think for "Frank's Brother") Dennis Hull (way better than you think for "Bobby's Brother") Pat Verbeek (the numbers really added up Andreychuk style for the Little Ball of Hate) Pete Peeters Dennis Maruk (stealthily had one of the greatest seasons in NHL history) Kevin Stevens (incredible peak as a player on a line with Lemieux...how much credit do we give Stevens though and is that unfair) Bill White (he was very much like a Rod Langway of the 1970s, a repeat Norris finalist and all star entirely on the basis of defensive play on the blueline) Rick Vaive (three straight 50 goal seasons and did it in Toronto, with career numbers getting close to the bar needed) Jere Lehtinen (three Selke Trophies) Ulf Nilsson (a WHA legend) Blaine Stoughton (had a 50 goal season in the WHA and two in the NHL including leading the league with 56 one year. Might be in Pavel Bure style without huge career totals if his whole career had at least been in the NHL) Danny Gare (two 50 goal seasons and 46 another year, including leading the league with 56 one time) Mike Rogers (had three straight 100 point seasons in the NHL and was the rare beast who scored at a higher rate in the NHL than he did in his WHA career, also won the WHA's version of the Lady Byng Trophy. He is one of only four players to score 100 points in his first three NHL seasons...the others being Peter Stastny, Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky) Some Canucks who are Closer than You Might Think... Trevor Linden (wasn't out of the running for the Hall of Fame and a very Rod Brind'Amour-esque career before his knee went in the middle of his career in 1996 or so) Kirk McLean (two time Vezina finalist plus the 1994 run where he set NHL records for goalies in the playoffs) Richard Brodeur (really has a case when you add the WHA and junior as well, first ever Memorial Cup MVP). Charlie Hodge (look this guy up...he was a legend when he took the Canucks crease as their veteran goalie in the team's first ever season) Pit Martin Ivan Boldirev Dave Babych (retired in the top 20 or so of all time NHL defensemen in terms of scoring, got as high as 6th for the Norris Trophy) Paul Reinhart (similar to Dave Babych and was an unbelievable playoff scoring monster for Calgary in the 80s) Gary Smith (came close to winning the Hart Trophy for Vancouver, played >70 games when it was quite rare, won the final AVCO Cup in the WHA) Cliff Ronning Barry Pederson (the guy we got for Cam Neely and was forever known for not being Cam Neely, he was basically a lock for the HOF after his first three seasons before his shoulder went and he was reduced to just a point a game guy) Esa Tikkanen (he was kind of like the Charlie Huddy of forwards during the Oilers dynasty) Guys who were Robbed by Injuries and Circumstance... Wayne Babych (Dave's brother, scored 50 goals very early on and then was cut down by injuries shortly thereafter) Pelle Lindbergh (Flyers goalie of the 80s was looking like a Hall of Fame lock after three seasons when he died suddenly in a car crash) Barry Pederson (mentioned above, the Hall of Fame was a done deal after three full seasons, then his shoulder went) Vladimir Konstantinov (mentioned above) Edited August 5 by Kevin Biestra 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Fuck those new kids! Haha, in all seriousness, I love the acknowledgments of the old guys who didn't maybe get the attention they deserve, but I feel like it's important to also acknowledge the current stars who are changing the game, breaking records, and making names for themselves. One of the coolest things about hockey history is seeing it being written write in front of our eyes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 Just now, -AJ- said: Fuck those new kids! Haha, in all seriousness, I love the acknowledgments of the old guys who didn't maybe get the attention they deserve, but I feel like it's important to also acknowledge the current stars who are changing the game, breaking records, and making names for themselves. One of the coolest things about hockey history is seeing it being written write in front of our eyes! Oh no doubt...McDavid, Stamkos, Draisaitl, Kucherov etc. are all in even if they retired tomorrow. And it is wild to see people getting 100 assists and 150 points again. I never thought those days would return when the Art Ross was being won a few years back with less than 90 points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyBoeser Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Dan Cloutier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 25 minutes ago, -AJ- said: Fuck those new kids! Haha, in all seriousness, I love the acknowledgments of the old guys who didn't maybe get the attention they deserve, but I feel like it's important to also acknowledge the current stars who are changing the game, breaking records, and making names for themselves. One of the coolest things about hockey history is seeing it being written write in front of our eyes! Maybe hockey should do something similar to the Veterans' Committee in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancan Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 20 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: In recent years the HHOF has corrected some slights that went unaddressed for many years, in some cases decades. Rogie Vachon, Doug Wilson, Pierre Turgeon, Jeremy Roenick, Mike Vernon, Tom Barrasso, etc. And possibly lowering the bar below some of my candidates with Kevin Lowe. I'm just ignoring for now the influx of new candidates that will enter eligibility in the years ahead... Corey Perry, Sid the Old Man, Ovechkin the Grey, Stamkos, etc. We'll induct four a year until the situation is corrected and equilibrium has been attained. I'll add my cases for the later years but I am just posting this unfinished so I don't lose all the work... Anyway, have at it ladies and gents. YEAR 1 Bernie Nicholls - GP: 1127. Points: 1209. - One of only about a half a dozen players to ever score 70 goals in a season and the same for 150 points. Three 100 point seasons and two more with 95 or more. Randy Carlyle (D) - GP: 1055. Points: 647. - One of very few Norris winners to not be in the Hall. Also one of pretty few defensemen to ever score 80 points in a season. 1st Team All Star. JC Tremblay (D) - NHL GP: 796. NHL Points: 363. WHA GP: 454. WHA Points: 424. Combined Games and Points: 1250, 787 - 5 Stanley Cups, Norris finalist twice (five seasons in top 5), 1st Team and 2nd Team NHL All Star, then the best defenseman in WHA history (2 of their Norris Trophies and 4x post season All Star). John Ross Roach (G) - GP: 491. W: 219. - The longest slighted player on the list and maybe of all time, Roach played from 1921 to 1935. He was 5'5". Led the NHL in wins twice, was a 1st Team All Star when that was the Vezina Trophy, was a Hart Trophy finalist and won one Stanley Cup. YEAR 2 - the year of the Flyer Ron Hextall (G) - GP: 608. Wins: 296. - Vezina Trophy, Conn Smythe Trophy and the only goalie NHL to be his team's enforcer. Never mind the goal scoring as well. Guy was one of a kind. Tim Kerr - GP: 655. Points: 674. - A member of the Lindros / Bure / Neely club where injuries shortened his career massively...but not enough that he shouldn't be in the Hall. Four straight 50 goal seasons, Masterton Trophy for dealing with his litany of injuries. Three straight years voted top three at his position in the NHL. His Flyers went to the Cup final in 1985 and 1987. Brian Propp - GP: 1016. Points: 1004. - He was right there with Tim Kerr and also went to the 1980 Final with the Flyers. And 1990 and 1991, five times in all. A playoff legend...if you acquired him that season, you were going to the final. 148 career playoff points. Also part of the Canada Cup teams in the 80s. Rick Tocchet - GP: 1144. Points: 952. - Along with Tiger Williams one of extremely few players to score ~30 goals and have ~300 penalty minutes in the same season. 109 points in 1992-93 and also a Stanley Cup in 1992. YEAR 3 Dale Hunter - GP: 1407. Points: 1020. PIM: 3565. - Nobody comes close to his combined achievements in points and penalty minutes (2nd all time). He has suffered long enough for the Pierre Turgeon hit. Rod Brind'Amour - GP: 1484. Points: 1184. - Rod the Bod. That many points AND two Selke Trophies as best defensive forward in the NHL. And captained the Hurricanes to a Stanley Cup. Dave Taylor - GP: 1111. Points: 1069. - Member of the legendary Triple Crown Line with Marcel Dionne. When Gretzky was traded to the Kings he insisted on being the assistant captain to Dave Taylor. Two 100 point seasons, five with 90 or more. Won the Clancy and Masterton Trophies. Mike Liut (G) - GP: 663. Wins: 293. - One of the only players to ever beat prime Wayne Gretzky for the NHL MVP, winning the Pearson / Lindsay Award in 1981, voted better than Gretzky by the NHL players. Was a goalie for Team Canada in the Canada Cup days. Hart finalist twice. Post-season All Star Team twice. The 1st All Star Team was what we had instead of the Vezina Trophy back when he had that honor in 1981. Eight seasons where he received Hart, Vezina or post-season All Star Team votes. YEAR 4 Alexander Mogilny - GP: 990. Points: 1032. - Very few players have ever matched his 76 goals in one season. Post-season all star team twice, a Lady Byng Trophy and a Stanley Cup. Rick Middleton - GP: 1005. Points: 988. - Bruins legend who bridged the gap between Orr / Esposito and Bourque / Neely. Two 100 point seasons and a Lady Byng Trophy. Theoren Fleury - GP: 1084. Points: 1088. - Should be in the Hall of Fame just for making it to the NHL at his height and what he went through in junior. Twice in the top 5 for the Hart Trophy. One Stanley Cup. Was one of the most recognizable faces of the NHL during his career. Ivan Hlinka - GP: 137. Points: 123. - Like Vaclav Nedomansky or Vladislav Tretiak, he gets in primarily for his foreign work, a true legend of Czechoslovakian hockey. However in the NHL he had a run to the Cup final with the Canucks in 1982 and also held the team's rookie scoring record for a long time. YEAR 5 Neal Broten - GP: 1099. Points: 923. - Easily a first ballot US Hall of Fame guy but an eventual Hockey HOF guy. The best player to come from the 1980 Olympics Miracle on Ice team that beat Tretiak and the Soviets, Broten went on to a great NHL career. Had 105 points in 1985-86 and was instrumental in winning the 1995 Stanley Cup with the Devils. Bobby Smith - GP: 1077. Points: 1036. - Calder Trophy winner in 1979, Cup winner in 1986 and two more runs to the finals with North Stars. 114 points in 1981-82. 160 career playoff points. Doug Jarvis - GP: 964. Points: 403. - About the closest thing to Bob Gainey that wasn't Bob Gainey. A Selke and Masterton Trophy winner and for decades the NHL's ironman record holder with 964 straight games. Also part of the Canadiens dynasty with four straight Stanley Cups. Steve Larmer - GP: 1006. Points: 1012. - For many years the only man to really challenge the Jarvis ironman record with 884 straight games. Cup winner with the Rangers in 1994. YEAR 6 Reggie Leach - GP: 934. Points: 666. - This guy should have been in ages ago. Led the NHL with 61 goals one year, then set the record for playoff goals in one year with 16, winning the Conn Smythe Trophy as well. Also may have been the first First Nations superstar in the NHL. Chris Osgood (G) - GP: 744. Wins: 401. Curtis Joseph (G) - GP: 943. Wins: 454. Tiger Williams - GP: 962. Points: 513. PIM: 3971. - The NHL's career penalty minute record holder with a bullet. But also an NHL All Star. 35 goals and way over 300 penalty minutes one year. More career goals than Henrik Sedin. No floodgates will be opened because he was literally one of a kind and there will never be another. In his own way, was the face of the NHL. YEAR 7 Peter Bondra - GP: 1081. Points: 892. Goals: 503. - Twice led the NHL in goals with what would have been Rocket Richard Trophies a few years later. Two 50 goal seasons and one more that would have been but for the shortened year due to the 1994-95 labor dispute. Also led the league in PPG, SHG and GWG. John Tonelli - NHL GP: 1028. NHL Points: 836. WHA GP: 224. WHA Points: 150. Total Games and Points: 1252, 986. - Twice received Hart Trophy votes (as the player most valuable to his team in the NHL) with the Islanders dynasty on a team that had Bossy, Trottier, Potvin etc. 100 points in 1985-86. 2nd Team All Star twice. Four Stanley Cups. Was voted the best forward ahead of prime Gretzky at the Canada Cup. Marc Tardif - NHL GP: 517. NHL Points: 401. WHA GP: 446. WHA Points: 666. Total GP and Points: 963, 1067. - The first player to be inducted primarily for his work in the underappreciated WHA. He led the league in scoring twice, with 148 and 154 points in one season (one with 71 goals). His mantle is covered with year end trophies from the WHA...two of their Hart Trophies, two of their Art Ross. Also two Stanley Cups and one AVCO Cup (the WHA's Stanley Cup). Real Cloutier - NHL GP: 318. NHL Points: 344. WHA GP: 369. WHA Points: 566. Total GP and Points: 687, 910. - Joins Marc Tardif with the same honor. The thing with Cloutier is...he was an elite NHLer. He had 89 and 97 points in NHL seasons...and in both of those seasons played only 67 games. Both would have easily crested 100 points with room to spare. Led the WHA in scoring twice (141 and 129 points) and had another 129 point season, and a season with 75 goals. WHA post-season All Star Team and 100 points four times in a row. I'm not to sure if Perry should be included in that infux of future candidates soon to be inducted. I'd say his ex-team mate Getzlaf would be a comparable. Jonathan Toews, Pat Kane, Kopitar, just to name a few before Perry. Not saying he wont get in, but will be a ways a way yet. Main reason I wanted to reply is the fact the HHF is kind of a joke. They seem to forget it is the "Hockey" hall of fame, not the "NHL" hall of fame. There are a ton of international players that should easily be in there, but unless your name is Tretiak, without NHL on the resume, your likely not getting in. Plus the politics and the hush, hush they have. Prime example; Theoren Fleury- Won a Stanley cup, consistently over a point a game player, gold medals in the Canada cup, world Juniors, Olympic games. What part of that contribution does not say your a shoe in for the hall?? Yes I get his substance abuse and blew an estimated 60 million on hookers, coke, and gambling. Everyone knew of his demons, but still sent him to NY and Chicago, wow nothing bad can happen to an addict living in those markets.... Biggest reason for his demons was being sexually assaulted by his jr coach for years. So instead of inducting someone who has way more of a right to be there, and admit there is more the league could have done, and understand why he went down that path, they choose to just pretend his career did not exist, and induct players with way less credentials. I'm not a Flurey or a Flames fan, but a fan of what is right and wrong. Tell me this is not complete bull shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 54 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: In recent years the HHOF has corrected some slights that went unaddressed for many years, in some cases decades. Rogie Vachon, Doug Wilson, Pierre Turgeon, Jeremy Roenick, Mike Vernon, Tom Barrasso, etc. And possibly lowering the bar below some of my candidates with Kevin Lowe. I'm just ignoring for now the influx of new candidates that will enter eligibility in the years ahead... Corey Perry, Sid the Old Man, Ovechkin the Grey, Stamkos, etc. We'll induct four a year until the situation is corrected and equilibrium has been attained. I'll add my cases for the later years but I am just posting this unfinished so I don't lose all the work... Anyway, have at it ladies and gents. Agree, disagree, tear it apart... Excellent, detailed and thoughtful work. I have no preferences, but I always remember what Ray Ferraro said, "It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of the Really Good." There is a case to be made for each of the players you've listed. I'll leave it to others to argue. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 10 minutes ago, Vancan said: I'm not to sure if Perry should be included in that infux of future candidates soon to be inducted. I'd say his ex-team mate Getzlaf would be a comparable. Jonathan Toews, Pat Kane, Kopitar, just to name a few before Perry. Not saying he wont get in, but will be a ways a way yet. Main reason I wanted to reply is the fact the HHF is kind of a joke. They seem to forget it is the "Hockey" hall of fame, not the "NHL" hall of fame. There are a ton of international players that should easily be in there, but unless your name is Tretiak, without NHL on the resume, your likely not getting in. Plus the politics and the hush, hush they have. Prime example; Theoren Fleury- Won a Stanley cup, consistently over a point a game player, gold medals in the Canada cup, world Juniors, Olympic games. What part of that contribution does not say your a shoe in for the hall?? Yes I get his substance abuse and blew an estimated 60 million on hookers, coke, and gambling. Everyone knew of his demons, but still sent him to NY and Chicago, wow nothing bad can happen to an addict living in those markets.... Biggest reason for his demons was being sexually assaulted by his jr coach for years. So instead of inducting someone who has way more of a right to be there, and admit there is more the league could have done, and understand why he went down that path, they choose to just pretend his career did not exist, and induct players with way less credentials. I'm not a Flurey or a Flames fan, but a fan of what is right and wrong. Tell me this is not complete bull shit. Fleury is not in for the same reason as Curt Schilling isn't in the baseball Hall of Fame: He doesn't know when to shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancan Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 1 minute ago, King Heffy said: Fleury is not in for the same reason as Curt Schilling isn't in the baseball Hall of Fame: He doesn't know when to shut up. So the Hull's, Roenick, Shultz, Shore, Pronger, even Pat Quinn who spoke there minds and never gave a shit of repercussions should not be there? Way more to his story than being outspoken. Its about not trying to tarnish the NHL. Once again its the hockey hall, not the NHL hall... Or its supposed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancan Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 25 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Fleury is not in for the same reason as Curt Schilling isn't in the baseball Hall of Fame: He doesn't know when to shut up. Fleury opening his mouth was also a big reason James was convicted. It is widely speculated Sakic was also a victim of James, but never came out and obviously held it in. I guess knowing when to shut up does get you into the NHL hall of fame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 32 minutes ago, Vancan said: So the Hull's, Roenick, Shultz, Shore, Pronger, even Pat Quinn who spoke there minds and never gave a shit of repercussions should not be there? Way more to his story than being outspoken. Its about not trying to tarnish the NHL. Once again its the hockey hall, not the NHL hall... Or its supposed to be. I wouldn't be opposed to booting Bobby Hull for his character issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancan Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 15 minutes ago, King Heffy said: I wouldn't be opposed to booting Bobby Hull for his character issues. Its hockey! This is not tennis, golf or some other prim and proper sport. I mean were not uncontrolled savages, but come on! Of all the big 4 major North America leagues the NHL is heads and tails above the others when it comes to character. The Golden Jet smoked cigarettes, drank beer, worked his farm in the off season, and said what should be said, but everyone was scared to. He never Pete Rose'd it and bet on his sport, failed drug tests, etc. He never said or did anything racist, sexist, etc. Fleury should be in the hall with his international play alone. (Golds in the Olympics, Canada cup, and world Juniors). Just proves the NHL has the final say with who gets in, and does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 12 minutes ago, Vancan said: Its hockey! This is not tennis, golf or some other prim and proper sport. I mean were not uncontrolled savages, but come on! Of all the big 4 major North America leagues the NHL is heads and tails above the others when it comes to character. The Golden Jet smoked cigarettes, drank beer, worked his farm in the off season, and said what should be said, but everyone was scared to. He never Pete Rose'd it and bet on his sport, failed drug tests, etc. He never said or did anything racist, sexist, etc. Fleury should be in the hall with his international play alone. (Golds in the Olympics, Canada cup, and world Juniors). Just proves the NHL has the final say with who gets in, and does not. https://www.chicagotribune.com/1998/08/26/bobby-hull-to-moscow-paper-hitler-had-some-good-ideas/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolschram/2023/01/30/bobby-hull-hockey-hall-of-famer-dies-at-84/ Saying Hitler "just went a little too far" isn't racist and beating the shit out of your wife isn't sexist? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancan Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 6 minutes ago, King Heffy said: https://www.chicagotribune.com/1998/08/26/bobby-hull-to-moscow-paper-hitler-had-some-good-ideas/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolschram/2023/01/30/bobby-hull-hockey-hall-of-famer-dies-at-84/ Saying Hitler "just went a little too far" isn't racist and beating the shit out of your wife isn't sexist? He was alleged to have beat his wife. I was with a girl years ago that called the cops on me once a month for abuse. They showed up with my shirt ripped off and a black eye. Among many other things. I am not saying domestic violence is not a huge issue, and absolutely needs to be taken seriously. But there are times, where the other partner accusing is just nuts. He was never convicted with any accusations, and actually re married one he supposedly "beat the shit out of". So should we believe something a Russian reporter says? I mean after all theses years still to this day there are lying to there own civilians, and only letting them hear what they want them to hear. However if either of these did actually happen, them i am on the boot Bobby Hull for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 28 minutes ago, Vancan said: He was alleged to have beat his wife. I was with a girl years ago that called the cops on me once a month for abuse. They showed up with my shirt ripped off and a black eye. Among many other things. I am not saying domestic violence is not a huge issue, and absolutely needs to be taken seriously. But there are times, where the other partner accusing is just nuts. He was never convicted with any accusations, and actually re married one he supposedly "beat the shit out of". So should we believe something a Russian reporter says? I mean after all theses years still to this day there are lying to there own civilians, and only letting them hear what they want them to hear. However if either of these did actually happen, them i am on the boot Bobby Hull for sure. https://www.chicagotribune.com/2002/05/21/show-gives-unflattering-view-of-hawks-great/ I agree that I wouldn't trust a Russian reporter, but I do trust his own daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancan Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 5 minutes ago, King Heffy said: https://www.chicagotribune.com/2002/05/21/show-gives-unflattering-view-of-hawks-great/ I agree that I wouldn't trust a Russian reporter, but I do trust his own daughter. I'm starting to dislike this man, the more I read. Thanks for shedding some new light. My bad for just replying without doing some research. Full discloser, I am not, nor ever have been a Hull family expert or had much interest in them. Just started due to my thoughts regarding the HHF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 20 hours ago, King Heffy said: Maybe hockey should do something similar to the Veterans' Committee in baseball. They used to have one a couple decades ago but they retired it. I think the Veterans Committee is a great idea. Got two of my all time favorites Tim Raines and Harold Baines into the Baseball Hall and still leaves things open perhaps for my homie Willie "E.T." McGee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 18 hours ago, Vancan said: I'm starting to dislike this man, the more I read. Thanks for shedding some new light. My bad for just replying without doing some research. Full discloser, I am not, nor ever have been a Hull family expert or had much interest in them. Just started due to my thoughts regarding the HHF. You know the thing about Hitler, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don't care for him. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 5 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: You know the thing about Hitler, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don't care for him. Norm! No not this one this one 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olli Juolevi Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 On 7/6/2024 at 4:35 PM, Kevin Biestra said: You know the thing about Hitler, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don't care for him. The worst thing about Hitler was the hypocrisy. Excellent post though, you really know you stuff. I'm 30 years old so I didn't really watch much of the guys who played pre-2000. I'd never heard of Dennis Maruk before. He had the great back to back years of 50 and 60 goals but other than that his numbers are mostly just "solid but unspectacular". What was the story with him? Injuries, personal problems, bad teams/linemates, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 (edited) 13 hours ago, Olli Juolevi said: The worst thing about Hitler was the hypocrisy. Excellent post though, you really know you stuff. I'm 30 years old so I didn't really watch much of the guys who played pre-2000. I'd never heard of Dennis Maruk before. He had the great back to back years of 50 and 60 goals but other than that his numbers are mostly just "solid but unspectacular". What was the story with him? Injuries, personal problems, bad teams/linemates, etc. Dennis Maruk...I don't recall any bad injuries that did him in and took him out of the HOF like with Dave's brother Wayne Babych or Barry Pederson or a few other guys like that (Tim Kerr was a stone cold guarantee). I think Maruk just kind of had his two big years like Gary Leeman or Jimmy Carson but had a higher peak and a higher baseline...just didn't quite hit the career statistics mark. And he played in markets people didn't care about too much...Capitals back then, North Stars, and defunct teams like the Cleveland Barons and California Golden Seals. It seems to be kind of a crap shoot who actually stays "famous" some years later and who achieved great things and then gets forgotten. Kent Nilsson, Dennis Maruk, Rick Vaive, Reggie Leach, Al Secord, Danny Gare etc. all did pretty big things and are mostly unknowns now. Some guys are complete unknowns now like Mike Rogers, who had three straight 100 point seasons in the NHL, and he isn't even known now among Rangers fans where he did some of his best work. Who knows if the Hartford faithful remember their legends like Rogers, Ray Ferraro, Pat Verbeek, Dave Babych, Mike Liut, Greg Millen, Blaine Stoughton etc. Pierre Larouche, Stoughton, all kinds of guys do some really good stuff and aren't even really remembered where they played. Kind of like how Canucks fans now don't really know Ron Sedlbauer (first 40 goal scorer), Gary Smith (almost won the Hart Trophy for the Canucks in the 70s in net). Dennis Ververgaert, Dennis Kearns, Darcy Rota... Hell even King Richard seems to be somewhat forgotten now. Great players like Paul MacLean and Gerard Gallant are mostly only known because they are coaches now. Edited July 11 by Kevin Biestra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 (edited) On 7/5/2024 at 7:33 PM, Vancan said: I'm not to sure if Perry should be included in that infux of future candidates soon to be inducted. I'd say his ex-team mate Getzlaf would be a comparable. Jonathan Toews, Pat Kane, Kopitar, just to name a few before Perry. Not saying he wont get in, but will be a ways a way yet. Main reason I wanted to reply is the fact the HHF is kind of a joke. They seem to forget it is the "Hockey" hall of fame, not the "NHL" hall of fame. There are a ton of international players that should easily be in there, but unless your name is Tretiak, without NHL on the resume, your likely not getting in. Plus the politics and the hush, hush they have. Prime example; Theoren Fleury- Won a Stanley cup, consistently over a point a game player, gold medals in the Canada cup, world Juniors, Olympic games. What part of that contribution does not say your a shoe in for the hall?? Yes I get his substance abuse and blew an estimated 60 million on hookers, coke, and gambling. Everyone knew of his demons, but still sent him to NY and Chicago, wow nothing bad can happen to an addict living in those markets.... Biggest reason for his demons was being sexually assaulted by his jr coach for years. So instead of inducting someone who has way more of a right to be there, and admit there is more the league could have done, and understand why he went down that path, they choose to just pretend his career did not exist, and induct players with way less credentials. I'm not a Flurey or a Flames fan, but a fan of what is right and wrong. Tell me this is not complete bull shit. I think Perry kind of fast tracked himself with this third act of his career where whoever picks him goes to the Cup final. He's like the new Brian Propp. I'd say he was pretty comparable to Getzlaf before all these late career Cup runs. As for Theoren Fleury...he should have been in ages ago. All the actual stuff he should be in the Hall of Fame for in terms of statistics and trophies, plus being a midget that made the NHL, plus the Punch Up in Piestany, plus overcoming Graham James etc. He was more than the Pierre Turgeon or Jeremy Roenick or Bernie Federko of his era. Too bad his personal problems probably robbed him of 300 points or so but he still had over 1000. Edited July 11 by Kevin Biestra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 On 7/5/2024 at 6:34 PM, Kevin Biestra said: Vladimir Krutov - NHL GP: 61. NHL Points: 34. USSR GP: 438. USSR Points: 503. - Soviet seasons were about 45 games so you have to more or less double his USSR totals to understand what they mean relative to the NHL (by comparison Larionov at a lesser 434 points in 457 USSR games for his career). Krutov is the only member of the famed KLM Line not to be in the Hockey HOF, though is already in the IIHF HOF. Tretiak is in the HOF with no NHL games. A mediocre single season shouldn't hurt Krutov compared to not playing at all in the league, and he wasn't awful by any means. Just didn't set the NHL on fire like Larionov and Makarov. Two Olympics golds and a silver, five WC golds and also gold at the 1981 Canada Cup, beating the hosts including Gretzky. Like a guy who's been in prison all his life (ok, I'm not talking from personal experience ), he was basically institutionalized under the Soviet Communist system. Being told what to do & when to do it all his life. Sure, his life more far more privileged in that systems compared to say, the typical steel worker but still strictly regimented. A literal 'fish out of water' when suddenly getting all that "freedom" playing in the NHL in a foreign country/customs. Larionov, being the more 'wordly' person (his wife was also a former Olympic athlete so she was more 'wordly' as well), was able to adapt far more easily. Smyl & his wife did their best to try & get the Krutov's "acclimated" (even simple things such as grocery shopping - the Krutov's were used to the lineups back in Russia so they stockpiled everything like it was 'food rationing times lol'). In hindsight, the club probably should've hired a full-time person(s) to handle that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 15 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said: It seems to be kind of a crap shoot who actually stays "famous" some years later and who achieved great things and then gets forgotten. Kent Nilsson, Dennis Maruk, Rick Vaive, Reggie Leach, Al Secord, Danny Gare etc. all did pretty big things and are mostly unknowns now. Some guys are complete unknowns now like Mike Rogers, who had three straight 100 point seasons in the NHL, and he isn't even known now among Rangers fans where he did some of his best work. Who knows if the Hartford faithful remember their legends like Rogers, Ray Ferraro, Pat Verbeek, Dave Babych, Mike Liut, Greg Millen, Blaine Stoughton etc. I have some vague recollections (heh, it was a LONG time ago after all) of Secord one tough @#$@#$er/fighter before the arrival of Denis Savard? Secord developed into a legit star power forward (such as they were then). Not quite the transformation of Mikita (who was a pretty dirty player at first but changed to a far more "cleaner" player. I *think* the story goes that he changed his game because of his daughter questioning "why does daddy spend so much time sitting in that area (penalty box)". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 2 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: I have some vague recollections (heh, it was a LONG time ago after all) of Secord one tough @#$@#$er/fighter before the arrival of Denis Savard? Secord developed into a legit star power forward (such as they were then). Not quite the transformation of Mikita (who was a pretty dirty player at first but changed to a far more "cleaner" player. I *think* the story goes that he changed his game because of his daughter questioning "why does daddy spend so much time sitting in that area (penalty box)". Rick Vaive (former Canuck) had a sort of similar statistical trajectory...went from a 200+ penalty minute machine to a 3x 50 goal scorer. We got Tiger Williams for him but man he would have looked nice taking passes from Gradin. I can picture Tanti sniping on one line and Vaive on the other. Oh well, I'll take Tiger and the 1982 run over some gawdy individual stats that didn't create any great memories for Maple Leafs fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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