[Discussion] What to do with the Brock Boes Monster...

[KesLord]

6 hours ago, Alflives said:

You don’t want Brock to play well and produce? 
We no longer have Benning (the moran). We have competent management again. Brock will okay great. We will make McWhiner Baby cry. Brock will sign a reasonable, and team friendly extension. 

Not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying if we want him long term, now would be the best time to sign it because he will be cheaper now then if he produces again like he did last season.

 

if we extend him now, I imagine it would be around 6M AAV. If he produces and we want to extend him later in the year, he could cost at least 2M more.

[KesLord]

30 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

I'd bet Boeser will iron out a new contract with Alvin sooner then later. My bet would be 7 million per year, for 4 years. However, he may want a no=trade clause

on that, and I think that's fine.

May his age and injury history there’s no way he can take less then 6 years

[Bob Long]

43 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

He improved his all around game this year, no doubt about that.  However, his all around game has been pretty ugh up until now.  I give him full credit for doing the work, for sure.

 

Again, lazy posters just want to say I don't like Boeser and that's fine and I didn't like his game for what he's been paid in his career so far, but he played to his contract this year.........but, I put the team before any individual player and I have a way I think the team should operate to have sustained, long term success and loading up on high priced, long term, trade protected contracts isn't it.  

 

I have absolutely nothing personal against Boeser, I just think this team is going to have to change lanes somewhere along the way if they want to maintain success beyond the next 3 years.

 

Historically, this org has been in a cycle of boom or bust........they're great for a few years and then awful for 5+ years and after 50 years of being a fan, I want something better because that isn't working.

 

A big part of it for me is the quality of people on the team, I think making a big bet on a quality person is the right way to go. 

 

If we had a team full of Evander Kanes I probably wouldn't watch.

 

It all comes down to whether or not Brock will take a reasonable number to stay, if he's going for the full bag we should probably think about getting an asset back while we can, and if things are going that way its much better to do it in the offseason.

 

My preference is to keep him but not at a dumb price.

[DrJockitch]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

Would you try to trade him this offseason or just let him walk next year? 

Generally would say trade but if we are leading division again and looking like contender may just roll the dice. Also if looks like Lekk needs time that changes the calculation somewhat. 
Also, depends if they seem an unreasonable distance apart.

[-dlc-]

I'm tired of the speed/youth is the key, it's more about balance and you NEED some of the older veterans on a team.

 

What matters as much as just age is how a team gels, plays within the system, etc. Health/lifestyle (guys in their 30's can be fitter than some in their 20's if they live the right way).

 

We heard this blahblahblah with Miller. "Old" "Slow". Yeah, whatever.

 

Yet some of the most productive players are proving to be the ones with experience on their side.

 

Kucherov (31)

Miller (31)

MacKinnon (turning 29 soon )

Panarin (turning 33 soon)

 

A lot of "young guys" won't turn out as projected.

 

Speed can be generated through quick passing and decisions as well as foot speed.

 

There's so much more to it than just "gather/hoard" young players.

[-dlc-]

44 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

A big part of it for me is the quality of people on the team, I think making a big bet on a quality person is the right way to go. 

 

My preference is to keep him but not at a dumb price.

Nailed it.

[iinatcc]

17 hours ago, Pears said:

I think he'll come in between $7.5M-$8M. We finally saw what he was capable of when he wasn't dealing with injuries or anything like that. 

 

Guentzel got $9 million x 7 years and is seen as a more accomplished player than Brock, albiet Brock is a bit younger. So yeah, if it's for an 8 year deal that number like that. But if there's a deal that can be made trading Brock while making the team better, I wouldn't mind trading him too.

 

On the topic of injuries though, we have to take that into consideration. When he's not injured, he's on. But he's been injured quite often. 

 

Edited July 7 by iinatcc

[spook007]

18 hours ago, KesLord said:

If he scores 40 again, I don't see him getting locked up for only 7.5M. Likely 8M or more. Jeff Skinner got 9Mx8 after his only 40 goal season.

t's unfortunate that his history likely will force us to have to wait to see how he produces. 

• If he regresses, he could be a player that could fetch around 5M for 7-8 years...
• If he becomes a 40G scorer again, then he's likely getting 8M+ (likely around 9M+ in free agency).
• If we trade him now, we are accepting that the team will regress and playoffs become a question mark. However, his value now could be higher than ever. If he regresses, then his value plummets and playoffs are a question mark either way. 

Signing him now could make him an insane bargain for the next 7 years (if he continues to produce like this season), or kill our cap situation for the next 7 years. 

If he scores 40 again its a great problem to have...

Do you pay him, what he is worth, or do we trade him for a good haul?... 

 

Its definitely a great problem to have compared Boeser sucking...

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

 

Guentzel got $9 million x 7 years and is seen as a more accomplished player than Brock, albiet Brock is a bit younger. So yeah, if it's for an 8 year deal that number like that. But if there's a deal that can be made trading Brock while making the team better, I wouldn't mind trading him too.

 

On the topic of injuries though, we have to take that into consideration. When he's not injured, he's on. But he's been injured quite often. 

 

 

Guentzal scored 30 last year and Boeser 40.......if he continues next season, it's likely he gets more than JG

[Ghostsof1915]

13 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

I'm tired of the speed/youth is the key, it's more about balance and you NEED some of the older veterans on a team.

 

What matters as much as just age is how a team gels, plays within the system, etc. Health/lifestyle (guys in their 30's can be fitter than some in their 20's if they live the right way).

 

We heard this blahblahblah with Miller. "Old" "Slow". Yeah, whatever.

 

Yet some of the most productive players are proving to be the ones with experience on their side.

 

Kucherov (31)

Miller (31)

MacKinnon (turning 29 soon )

Panarin (turning 33 soon)

 

A lot of "young guys" won't turn out as projected.

 

Speed can be generated through quick passing and decisions as well as foot speed.

 

There's so much more to it than just "gather/hoard" young players.

There seems to be a lot of fans who think hockey is like the stock market, or real estate.

Or just want to have the "big splash" with a high end draft pick. Or high scoring players.

Sadly there seems to be a portion of this fanbase that could care less about winning. They just want a high scoring "exciting" team.

I'm the opposite. I want a balanced team, that works hard, and wins a cup. It's not sexy, or flashy, I just want results.

Because the last Stanley Cup shows, you need to defend as well as score goals.

 

Or as in the Untouchables pointed out. "I get nowhere unless the team wins..."

 

[KesLord]

54 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

My preference is to keep him but not at a dumb price.

Agreed.

 

I think the only way to keep him at a reasonable price is to lock him up now. But that also is scary because he may regress this year. 
 

I think if we wait and he becomes a 40 goal scorer again, the price could be dumb. 
 

 

[iinatcc]

1 minute ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

There seems to be a lot of fans who think hockey is like the stock market, or real estate.

Or just want to have the "big splash" with a high end draft pick. Or high scoring players.

Sadly there seems to be a portion of this fanbase that could care less about winning. They just want a high scoring "exciting" team.

I'm the opposite. I want a balanced team, that works hard, and wins a cup. It's not sexy, or flashy, I just want results.

Because the last Stanley Cup shows, you need to defend as well as score goals.

 

Or as in the Untouchables pointed out. "I get nowhere unless the team wins..."

 

 

I wouldn't blame the fanbase doing a "big splash" if you look at the last two cup winners. Vegas and Florida they both did some big splash moves. For the case of Vegas the acquired Eichel via trade and signed Pietrangelo via free agency and Florida acquired Tkachuk. 

 

 

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

There seems to be a lot of fans who think hockey is like the stock market, or real estate.

Or just want to have the "big splash" with a high end draft pick. Or high scoring players.

Sadly there seems to be a portion of this fanbase that could care less about winning. They just want a high scoring "exciting" team.

I'm the opposite. I want a balanced team, that works hard, and wins a cup. It's not sexy, or flashy, I just want results.

Because the last Stanley Cup shows, you need to defend as well as score goals.

 

Or as in the Untouchables pointed out. "I get nowhere unless the team wins..."

 

 

 I want a team that has a plan for long term success and that requires some of succession plan which means you put the team over attachments to individual players.  I agree you need balance.......that's why you can't have a top heavy roster full of aging players on high salary, long term contracts.

Edited July 7 by stawns

[KesLord]

3 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

There seems to be a lot of fans who think hockey is like the stock market, or real estate.

Or just want to have the "big splash" with a high end draft pick. Or high scoring players.

Sadly there seems to be a portion of this fanbase that could care less about winning. They just want a high scoring "exciting" team.

I'm the opposite. I want a balanced team, that works hard, and wins a cup. It's not sexy, or flashy, I just want results.

Because the last Stanley Cup shows, you need to defend as well as score goals.

 

Or as in the Untouchables pointed out. "I get nowhere unless the team wins..."

 

Yes and no. You also need a balanced roster. If we pay Boeser big $$, then it weakens another portion of the lineup. 
 

Prospects are worth it because they could be high-end players at a reasonable price. Dallas was able to dominate for much of the season because of their young guys like Johnston, Stankoven, and Harley. 

[-dlc-]

2 minutes ago, KesLord said:

Agreed.

 

I think the only way to keep him at a reasonable price is to lock him up now. But that also is scary because he may regress this year. 
 

I think if we wait and he becomes a 40 goal scorer again, the price could be dumb. 
 

 

Thing is, ALL players come with that risk and there are no guarantees. 

 

I do agree that you can't pay him a ridiculous amount. With that, he seems like a guy who'd take a bit of a discount to be/stay here. This is his Dad's legacy here too and this is the only hockey home Brock's known. He and Miller are establishing some nice chemistry together. 

 

I bet he stays.

[-dlc-]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

 I want a team that has a plan for long term success and that requires some of succession plan which means you put the team over attachments to individual players.  I agree you need balance.......that's why you can't have a top heavy roster full of aging players on high salary, long term contracts.

You don't sacrifice short term goals/success FOR long term either. 

 

But I do agree...balance is the key.

[KesLord]

12 hours ago, stawns said:

 

Do you disagree that he hasn't played up to his $6.65m aav until this season?  He had 18 goals last year

Agreed. We couldn’t find any suitors last year at the 6.65M. He couldn’t either. 
 

Now hes a steal at that price, but I’m not sure I’d give him that much again

[Rip The Mesh]

Believe it or not, I am of the opinion that Brock Boeser would take less then he could get on the open market, to stay in Vancouver for say four years.

I don't think that's unreasonable. Something along the lines of 7.5..

After that; I think he'll stay in hockey, but not as a player. 

[spook007]

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Guentzal scored 30 last year and Boeser 40.......if he continues next season, it's likely he gets more than JG

Don't think it'll be in Vancouver, if he is wanting more than Guentzel... the money won't be there to pay a kings ransom for Brock... 

I just don't see Brock squeezing the club.... but stranger things has happened... time will tell... 

[stawns]

Just now, spook007 said:

Don't think it'll be in Vancouver, if he is wanting more than Guentzel... the money won't be there to pay a kings ransom for Brock... 

I just don't see Brock squeezing the club.... but stranger things has happened... time will tell... 

 

I don't think he'll "squeeze" them, but he'll want a fair, market value contract and if he picks up where he left off last season, it's not going to be a small number 

[stawns]

14 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Believe it or not, I am of the opinion that Brock Boeser would take less then he could get on the open market, to stay in Vancouver for say four years.

I don't think that's unreasonable. Something along the lines of 7.5..

After that; I think he'll stay in hockey, but not as a player. 

 

You think he's going to retire at 30-31?

[KesLord]

It sounds like:

 

Win/Win/Win: Boeser signs a contract now (around 6M for 7-8 years). He performs like he did this previous season for majority of the years, and we’re all happy.

 

Lose/Win/Win: We trade Boeser for picks and prospects. He regresses to his 2022/23 form and PA looks genius. 

Win/Lose/Lose 1: We trade Boeser for picks/prospects. He continues to perform like this year causing Canucks to lose a 40g scorer in a key window. 

 

Win/Lose/Lose 2: Boeser signs a contract now (around 6M for 7-8 years). He regresses to his 2022/23 form and we have an albatross contract. Everyone is sad until 2032.

Win/Lose/Win: We wait on Boeser. He turns in another 40g performance and now wants 9M. We sign him and he continues to be this player for the foreseeable future.

 

Win/Lose/Lose 3: We wait on Boeser. He turns in another 40g performance. We sign him to a long term contract for 9M… but then he regresses and we have a Jeff Skinner situation on our hands.

Lose/Lose/Win 1: We wait on Boeser. He regresses, and we extend him to a cheaper contract (5M for 7-8 years). 
 

Lose/Kindve win: We wait on Boeser, he regresses. We retain some salary to get a mid-tier pick/prospect back. 
 

Lose/Lose/LOSE: We wait on Boeser. He turns in another 40g performance making his price too high to extend but the team is doing too well to trade him at the deadline. We lose him for nothing in the off-season. 
*From Canucks history… this is the likely scenario 

 

 

I spelt lose so many times I now am questioning if that’s the proper spelling. 

[Dizzle]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

 

I advocate moving anyone if it makes the team better.  

thats not what this is about. You’ve rarely, if ever, given Brock credit as a player. Again, not shocking you’re one of the first to pipe up on moving him. 

[Johnny]

11 hours ago, stawns said:

 

It all depends on his season pre-tdl goes.  If he's scoring like he did last season, you'd have to think he's looking at more than Guentzal money 

 

Ultimately, if this team wants any staying power, they can't keep piling up long term, big money deals 

A decent comparable but I think Boeser comes in at 85-90% of Guentzal

[sbriggs]

12 hours ago, Johnny said:

This makes no sense for Ottawa, there are much better packages that can be put together

 

 

Well who says what our package is? Not one for one