stawns Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 20 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: He's only been on his current deal for two years, so are you referring just to that first year? What about when he scored 29 goals and 26 goals making $925k? Was he overpaid then too? For a big portion of his career, Boeser has actually been UNDERPAID if you look at his production in his first 4 years. Are purposefully ignoring the 3 year deal at $5m+ where he also underperformed? He absolutely played up to his deal this year and I had no issues. However, BB at 31, 32, 33, 34 at $8m+.........I'm not so sure 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 21 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: He's only been on his current deal for two years, so are you referring just to that first year? What about when he scored 29 goals and 26 goals making $925k? Was he overpaid then too? For a big portion of his career, Boeser has actually been UNDERPAID if you look at his production in his first 4 years. Spot on, and at no time has he behaved like an entitled kid... Why would Lekkerimaki mean good bye to Brock? I don't see anyone on Peteys RW, so there is plenty of room for both... This is all about the worry of losing garland for some, cause money has to be found somewhere.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 minute ago, stawns said: Are purposefully ignoring the 3 year deal at $5m+ where he also underperformed? He absolutely played up to his deal this year and I had no issues. However, BB at 31, 32, 33, 34 at $8m+.........I'm not so sure This is obviously, where PA has to find his crystal ball, and figure out if it will be possible... The same argument there was about Miller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KesLord Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 30 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: He's only been on his current deal for two years, so are you referring just to that first year? What about when he scored 29 goals and 26 goals making $925k? Was he overpaid then too? For a big portion of his career, Boeser has actually been UNDERPAID if you look at his production in his first 4 years. I mean he got bonuses, but it’s also why we were so excited about him. The only time he’s really improved on his production from his first season was this year though… every other season was comparable or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 5 minutes ago, spook007 said: This is obviously, where PA has to find his crystal ball, and figure out if it will be possible... The same argument there was about Miller. My argument about miller was more into his mid to late 30's........when he'll still be faster than boeser is now. BZb had a great year, absolutely played to his contract and definitely rounded out hus game. But, he is still average to below average in the speed dept and that is almost surely going to age poorly, imo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KesLord Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 7 minutes ago, spook007 said: This is obviously, where PA has to find his crystal ball, and figure out if it will be possible... The same argument there was about Miller. A LOT wanted to trade Miller but now, at his price, he’s a massive steal. Probably will say the opposite in 6 years 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KesLord Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 4 minutes ago, stawns said: My argument about miller was more into his mid to late 30's........when he'll still be faster than boeser is now. BZb had a great year, absolutely played to his contract and definitely rounded out hus game. But, he is still average to below average in the speed dept and that is almost surely going to age poorly, imo Miller is also extremely consistent. He’s been a top 3 player for us since we got him. Boes has been a top 3 forward sometimes… and other times no team wants to touch him with a 10-foot pole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 3 minutes ago, KesLord said: A LOT wanted to trade Miller but now, at his price, he’s a massive steal. Probably will say the opposite in 6 years And that is just it... these are the decisions JR/PA are paid to make with their massive front office... They have done this before and been around the block more than just a few times... If you look back at the Pens teams, there was lots of changes made... they don't hand around and outside Crosby, Malkin and Letang nobody seemed safe at any stage... As for saying the opposite in 6 years, it is a balanced estimate that he will earn his contract over the 8 years, and so far he certainly have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 8 minutes ago, KesLord said: Miller is also extremely consistent. He’s been a top 3 player for us since we got him. Boes has been a top 3 forward sometimes… and other times no team wants to touch him with a 10-foot pole I know it triggers people, but if I could go back, I'd still advocate for moving Miller because I think the assets they could have got for him fit the timeline better and add much needed youth into the org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 12 minutes ago, stawns said: My argument about miller was more into his mid to late 30's........when he'll still be faster than boeser is now. BZb had a great year, absolutely played to his contract and definitely rounded out hus game. But, he is still average to below average in the speed dept and that is almost surely going to age poorly, imo That is very likely, so its up to PA to figure out if they think he can help us out or not... I don't see them trading him now, as this window is NOW... next year and the year after it will be about solidifying the team, and then once OEL penalty goes down to $2M again, be ready to get aggressive again... We could easily end up in a situation, where neither Brock nor Garland is on the team after next season... They represent a decent amount of cap space, and with $5M is cap penalty that will be important.... Demko and Hughes needs pay rises as well over the coming years... Its the prize of success... PS. Looking at Pens under JR... nobody was safe, and they had zero issue pulling the trigger... It will be the same here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 4 minutes ago, stawns said: I know it triggers people, but if I could go back, I'd still advocate for moving Miller because I think the assets they could have got for him fit the timeline better and add much needed youth into the org Big question is then how long do we wait? would we have gotten a much better deal for Miller than Bo? I think they played that one excellently, especially since they wanted the team to become competitive fast... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) 16 minutes ago, spook007 said: That is very likely, so its up to PA to figure out if they think he can help us out or not... I don't see them trading him now, as this window is NOW... next year and the year after it will be about solidifying the team, and then once OEL penalty goes down to $2M again, be ready to get aggressive again... We could easily end up in a situation, where neither Brock nor Garland is on the team after next season... They represent a decent amount of cap space, and with $5M is cap penalty that will be important.... Demko and Hughes needs pay rises as well over the coming years... Its the prize of success... PS. Looking at Pens under JR... nobody was safe, and they had zero issue pulling the trigger... It will be the same here... No, they're not trading him I agree. But, we can say they're in win now mode, and obviously they're trying to get there, but I don't see it in the next 2 years, at the very least. My very real concern is that Miller is going to start a significant decline right around the time they should be in the prime if their window and that's really only going to give them a year or two when they are really serious contenders. Miller has decent speed now, but he's not a fast player, imo. If his feet go, he becomes significantly less effective Then if youvd locked BB into a large, long term deal, you've really painted yourself into a corner Edited July 7 by stawns 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 32 minutes ago, stawns said: No, they're not trading him I agree. But, we can say they're in win now mode, and obviously they're trying to get there, but I don't see it in the next 2 years, at the very least. My very real concern is that Miller is going to start a significant decline right around the time they should be in the prime if their window and that's really only going to give them a year or two when they are really serious contenders. Miller has decent speed now, but he's not a fast player, imo. If his feet go, he becomes significantly less effective Then if youvd locked BB into a large, long term deal, you've really painted yourself into a corner JT was still pretty damn fast this past year. I don't see that changing for a couple of years, though he needs to get off the ice when his shift is over. Looks like Rick will probably keep him with Boeser, though Hoglander may not be the ideal line mate. There are options now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzle Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 4 hours ago, stawns said: That's so lazy This response doesn’t even make sense. You love to rag on Boeser…. You are back to wanting to move in. Everyone is shocked. Guy has been just fine for the contracts he’s been under. Especially giving context any level of weight in the discussion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 8 minutes ago, Dizzle said: This response doesn’t even make sense. You love to rag on Boeser…. You are back to wanting to move in. Everyone is shocked. Guy has been just fine for the contracts he’s been under. Especially giving context any level of weight in the discussion. It's lazy just to chalk it up to "not liking boeser", when not once have I ever said that. I'm not a huge fan of his game, for very legitimate reasons, but mostly because I try to look at things through the lens of what I think is best for the team in the bigger picture. It's lazy because you disagree and it's easier just to say I "rag" on boeser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 17 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said: JT was still pretty damn fast this past year. I don't see that changing for a couple of years, though he needs to get off the ice when his shift is over. Looks like Rick will probably keep him with Boeser, though Hoglander may not be the ideal line mate. There are options now. He's above average, but it's certainly not what his game is based on, imo. I agree, he's going to be very effective gor a couple years, no argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dizzle Posted July 7 Popular Post Share Posted July 7 5 minutes ago, stawns said: It's lazy just to chalk it up to "not liking boeser", when not once have I ever said that. I'm not a huge fan of his game, for very legitimate reasons, but mostly because I try to look at things through the lens of what I think is best for the team in the bigger picture. It's lazy because you disagree and it's easier just to say I "rag" on boeser. It’s not lazy, it’s true. You do rag on Boeser. You have for years. You’re constantly critical of his play without good reason. he has been just fine for the contracts he has been under, and - surprise, surprise - had a fantastic year that was well above contract value when some of the things that have (very legitimately) plagued him are further in the past. 1 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 2 hours ago, 4petesake said: This is for players having appeared in at least one game by Oct 19 2018 but I’m guessing rates would be similar for today. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. Undrafted Skaters 261 107 54 44 42 36 17 1 0 82 Goalies. 11 8 9 5 6 4 3 1 2 13 Notable: After the first round (40.5 percent) and second round (16.6 percent), undrafted players account for the third-biggest segment of the NHL’s population at 12.7 percent (82 out of 644). Columbus’ Artemi Panarin likely takes the crown as the league’s most talented undrafted player, while Tampa Bay unearthed both Tyler Johnson and Yanni Gourde. Defensemen Mark Giordano, Chris Tanev, Andy Greene and Nikita Zaitsev never heard their name called at the draft, but made it to the NHL anyway. It’s also interesting when you consider that there’s 13 undrafted goalies in the NHL, which is more than the first round (11) – or any other round – has provided. Six of the 13 undrafted goalies are the starter for their team, most notably two-time Vezina Trophy winner Sergei Bobrovsky in Columbus. I find it interesting the number of undrafted players is very similar to the number of players from 5th-7th rounds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 2 minutes ago, Dizzle said: It’s not lazy, it’s true. You do rag on Boeser. You have for years. You’re constantly critical of his play without good reason. he has been just fine for the contracts he has been under, and - surprise, surprise - had a fantastic year that was well above contract value when some of the things that have (very legitimately) plagued him are further in the past. Without good reason? I think a lot of people think with good reason. And yes, it is lazy.......a shortcut to actual thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, KesLord said: I mean he got bonuses, but it’s also why we were so excited about him. The only time he’s really improved on his production from his first season was this year though… every other season was comparable or worse. That’s not true. In 2919-2020 he played 56 games and had 49 points. That was a full season during the lockout. That was a pace of 93 points. It was literally his best season ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dlc- Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, stawns said: Are purposefully ignoring the 3 year deal at $5m+ where he also underperformed? He absolutely played up to his deal this year and I had no issues. However, BB at 31, 32, 33, 34 at $8m+.........I'm not so sure You said the same thing about Miller though. How about wait and see? A 22, 23, 24 year old could falter too and at least we KNOW what Brock and Miller are capable of and are reaping the rewards, even if it doesn't carry all the way through. Besides, $8 isn't over the top these days and the cap will continue to go up. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dlc- Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 25 minutes ago, Dizzle said: It’s not lazy, it’s true. You do rag on Boeser. You have for years. You’re constantly critical of his play without good reason. he has been just fine for the contracts he has been under, and - surprise, surprise - had a fantastic year that was well above contract value when some of the things that have (very legitimately) plagued him are further in the past. Some here would've ditched Miller and Boeser awhile ago. Honestly shows what they know. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzle Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 32 minutes ago, stawns said: Without good reason? I think a lot of people think with good reason. And yes, it is lazy.......a shortcut to actual thinking rather than trying to wiggle out of what I’ve actually said multiple times by calling me lazy, why don’t you try and tell me what you think a guy who averaged 63 points (over 30 of those being goals) per 82 games played was worth? Maybe try and back it up with a comparable or two. Unless that’s too much work for you….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 3 minutes ago, Dizzle said: rather than trying to wiggle out of what I’ve actually said multiple times by calling me lazy, why don’t you try and tell me what you think a guy who averaged 63 points (over 30 of those being goals) per 82 games played was worth? Maybe try and back it up with a comparable or two. Unless that’s too much work for you….. Wiggle out? I've explained my stance ad nauseam and it's deeper than "ragging on BB. But, I suppose it's too much to ask of you to actually put some comprehension effort in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 50 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: That’s not true. In 2919-2020 he played 56 games and had 49 points. That was a full season during the lockout. That was a pace of 93 points. It was literally his best season ever. If he had less points, than games played, he would have needed more than 93 games to get 93 points, would he not? His pace, that year, would be about about 71.25 points over 82 games. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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