[Discussion] What to do with the Brock Boes Monster...

[Rip The Mesh]

I'm done; Made up my mind.  Know all the positives and the negatives.  

 

I think the Canucks should offer Boeser five extra years and 7.8 per, to go with it.

I would also task him with helping the younger, and those yet to come, down the road a ways.

You have to take advantage of that great personality as well..

[-dlc-]

26 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

You think after scoring 40 goals, the cap rising significantly and his next contract being the biggest of his career, hez going to take less than $400k raise?

This is his father's team. Some things factor in beyond just $$$ and he scored 40 goals with guys who he had chemistry with and he'd likely want to stay with (JT).

 

So....yes.

 

Remember JT also took a discount and some here thought he'd chase the money to go "home". He decided this is home.

 

Players don't always go for the most they can make...they consider other things as well. Brock is a guy who would likely take a bit less to be happy and feel at home. He's had a rough go and being "settled" is likely important to him. He's just really getting that level of comfort and may not want to rock the boat too much.

[higgyfan]

4 hours ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

Canucks Likely to Hold off On Brock Boeser Extension 

 

Canucks Likely to Hold off On Brock Boeser Extension

 

 

Perhaps they don't want Petey 2.0, but they may just get it

 

I like that they are taking their time to see that he can follow up on his last season.  The Canucks have

been very patient with Brock and have supported him through a few years of inconsistent play due to

injuries or dealing with the agonizing illness and death of his father.  Brock is clearly an important

player for this team; both as a player and as a young man who has a great connection to the players,

the management/coaching and the fans.  Regardless, the management has to be certain that Brock

can measure up to the $ and term that they offer. 

.

[Guntrix]

I’d be bummed if we didn’t resign Brock.

 

I’d even get rid of Petey before getting rid of Boeser. 

[Rip The Mesh]

9 hours ago, Guntrix said:

I’d be bummed if we didn’t resign Brock.

 

I’d even get rid of Petey before getting rid of Boeser. 

In some ways, yah.

[IBatch]

On 7/7/2024 at 12:17 PM, -dlc- said:

I'm tired of the speed/youth is the key, it's more about balance and you NEED some of the older veterans on a team.

 

What matters as much as just age is how a team gels, plays within the system, etc. Health/lifestyle (guys in their 30's can be fitter than some in their 20's if they live the right way).

 

We heard this blahblahblah with Miller. "Old" "Slow". Yeah, whatever.

 

Yet some of the most productive players are proving to be the ones with experience on their side.

 

Kucherov (31)

Miller (31)

MacKinnon (turning 29 soon )

Panarin (turning 33 soon)

 

A lot of "young guys" won't turn out as projected.

 

Speed can be generated through quick passing and decisions as well as foot speed.

 

There's so much more to it than just "gather/hoard" young players.

It's kind of ironic, hoarding young players so we can have their best seasons, the 26-33 band (34 for D's),  but then once you get a good one in that range want to start the process all over again.

 

It takes some balance, but the teams cycle and best chance to win is when the core is in that age range.  

 

Get the concern about the cap and term given it's a team sport.   You can bet that management wants to keep him too.  Strategically,  doubt the team will be able to find a better same cost player through free agency.    And why break up that Miller line anyways.   It's on its way to becoming one of the best lines the teams ever had.    Hope they give them another top six forward (DeBrusk).   It was fun watching McBaby getting owned last season playing against those two.    Suter Miller Brock  ... Hyman McDavid Draisatl.    Wasn't just them, Tochett challenged them from game one to go head to head against other teams top lines.  +17, +32, +23 respectively.     That's no small task.  Against the McKinnon,  Kucherov, McDavids of the league plus, well whatever else a club can line up against us. 

Edited July 15 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 7/14/2024 at 2:36 AM, Guntrix said:

I’d be bummed if we didn’t resign Brock.

 

I’d even get rid of Petey before getting rid of Boeser. 

11.6 x 8 versus 7.5 x 8.     Is EP really 65% better?   Nah.  It's incredible how much more the blue chip stars get paid.    Sure hope we get the real alien next season.    The one who can take a KHL guy and make him a 40 goal scorer.     Reality is we need both these guys signed for long term deals that are reasonable.   

Edited July 15 by IBatch

[MikeyD]

I feel for the money we'd have to pay him, there'd be a plethora of better options at his cap hit. He's a good goal scorer but he's a supporting player who needs good linemates. Anything 7 and above (which is likely what he gets) and we should move him. Need more speed, consistency, defense and line driving for that cap hit. I'd take a versatile 25 goal scorer over a 1-dimensional 40 goal scorer. 

[MikeyD]

On 7/15/2024 at 3:46 AM, IBatch said:

11.6 x 8 versus 7.5 x 8.     Is EP really 65% better?   Nah.  It's incredible how much more the blue chip stars get paid.    Sure hope we get the real alien next season.    The one who can take a KHL guy and make him a 40 goal scorer.     Reality is we need both these guys signed for long term deals that are reasonable.   

EP is better in point totals, passing, play-driving, skating, forechecking, goal variety and defense. So yes, I'd say he's 65% better. Also has higher g/gp than Boeser on career average. 

[MikeyD]

On 7/13/2024 at 7:10 PM, higgyfan said:

 

I like that they are taking their time to see that he can follow up on his last season.  The Canucks have

been very patient with Brock and have supported him through a few years of inconsistent play due to

injuries or dealing with the agonizing illness and death of his father.  Brock is clearly an important

player for this team; both as a player and as a young man who has a great connection to the players,

the management/coaching and the fans.  Regardless, the management has to be certain that Brock

can measure up to the $ and term that they offer. 

.

I'm glad management is using their head and not throwing out extensions after career seasons like many idiot teams do. 

[higgyfan]

It will be tough going trying to sign Brock, as the first 2 years of the contract will be effected by the

Mik/OEL dead cap $5.4m and $4.5m.  Hogs will also require a new contract and Demko the next year.

 

Unfortunately, there isn't much salary in the UFAs that will be walking at the end of the coming season,

so they will be relying on the Salary Cap continuing to increase, but that won't be enough for Hogs/Brock

contracts.

[Canuckleheads Fan]

You don't extend him before you are certain as to the future of this blood clotting disorder, is it something he will have for the rest of his life? Will it affect his play and availability? You take a wait and see approach. You also don't resign him until you are sure that last season is repeatable and not an aberration. If halfway through the season his health is good and he's on a pace no worse than 30/60, you begin negotiations. 

[Gawdzukes]

On 7/17/2024 at 12:27 PM, higgyfan said:

It will be tough going trying to sign Brock, as the first 2 years of the contract will be effected by the

Mik/OEL dead cap $5.4m and $4.5m.  Hogs will also require a new contract and Demko the next year.

 

Unfortunately, there isn't much salary in the UFAs that will be walking at the end of the coming season,

so they will be relying on the Salary Cap continuing to increase, but that won't be enough for Hogs/Brock

contracts.

 

Most likely have to move Garland to sign him. Garland only has one year after this one anyway. I think Boeser will be more valuable to this management group if it comes down to one or the other. Hoglander is a good move candidate as well and this season will be interesting for him. His defence and jam is lacking so I'm not sure where he would fit in future wise and what we could pay him. Demko obviously needs to be re-signed, but hopefully after an injury free season

[Coconuts]

On 7/16/2024 at 12:50 PM, MikeyD said:

EP is better in point totals, passing, play-driving, skating, forechecking, goal variety and defense. So yes, I'd say he's 65% better. Also has higher g/gp than Boeser on career average. 

 

Boeser's next deal will also be 8M+ imo, so the salary gap will close as well 

[Devron]

On 7/13/2024 at 2:33 PM, stawns said:

 

You think after scoring 40 goals, the cap rising significantly and his next contract being the biggest of his career, hez going to take less than $400k raise?

[Pure961089]

On 7/6/2024 at 3:04 PM, KesLord said:

Saw an article that reminded me that this is the last year of BB6's current contract... and I'm curious what the plans with him are going forward. It's hard to gauge exactly the contract we should give him based on his history:
Career timeline:

2017/18 season - Runner up for ROTY

March 2018 - Massive Back injury

2018-2020 - Regresses in production
2020-21 season - Starts coming back to form and nearly a PPG player (49 points in 56 games)

2021-22 season - Father's is succumbed to Parkinson's disease and cancer, which takes a massive toll on Brock emotionally and mentally and his production declines again. 

2022-23 season - Brock struggles to produce (18 goals), and is given permission to seek trade, but there are no takers.

2023-24 season - Brock's best season to date. 40 goals and 73 points. The most healthy he's been in a season as well. 
2024 playoffs - Brock is a point per game player in the playoffs. 
May 2024 - Blood clots force Brock out for the rest of playoffs 

Injury history:
2018 - Boeser suffered a non-displaced fracture of his back (season ending injury)
2018 - Groin injury keeps him in and out of lineup until early November. Forced to miss all of November to recover. 
2019 - Suffered a concussion from a hit by Tierny, only missed preseason but took him awhile to get back to form
2020 - Suffered a broken rib in February that kept him out for 6 weeks. 
2021 - Undisclosed injury forced him to miss a few games at the start of the season
2021 - Contracts COVID that kept him out for several weeks
2022 - Undisclosed Upper Body injury forces him to miss 2 weeks
2022 - Hand surgery from a Training camp injury
2024 - Blood clots

 

To say that the odds are STACKED against Boeser is putting it lightly. He's the longest standing Canucks and I'd love to see him stay in Blue for the foreseeable future as Miller and Boeser the most deadly combo we have seen in a long time. 

We're not sure the Boeser we're going to get after these blood clots... I know we're all praying for the 2023/24 Boeser to return, but I know there's fear that he will regress again. At this point in his career, there's no doubt that Boeser is going to want to sign a short-term contract but will be looking for the 7-8 year guaranteer many players at his age are looking for. So I'm curious do you:
A) Extend Boeser this summer
- This is a high risk/high reward scenario. If we sign him now, it means that we could potentially get him cheaper then we would in the future if he has another season similar to this one. But how much do you try to sign him for over the 6-8 years? 

B) Wait until the end of the season to decide 
- This can also be seen as a high risk/high reward scenario. Boeser could produce like this previous season, forcing his price to go up (forcing us to spend 8M+ to keep him around). Alternatively, poor play could allow his price to drop. This also opens up the potential for Boeser to hit free agency. 

C) Decide at the trade deadline
- If he regresses, trade him for a mid-round pick. If he continues to excel, attempt to extend him at a higher price than he would be currently. 

D) Trade Boeser while his value is high
- This means we would be trading Boeser this summer. But what would that package look like? 
- This would also force the team to regress next year unless we can obtain a player similar to Boeser's skill level. 

I think there's a lot of unknown with Boes but expecting him to sign anything less then a 6 year contract is unrealistic.
If we extend him, I'd have mixed feelings. I love the player, but what if his production drops again and suddenly we have him for 8 seasons at an albatross contract. Is that a risk you're willing to take, or is it time to move on from BB6? 

 He's a 40 goal scorer now, even if he has a rough start next year his 40 goals can't be undervalued.  A late 1st rounder minimum in return but I think Alvin would prefer a 20 something prospect that's coachable, that can be built into a top 6 goal scorer. Management has put a great deal of faith in our coaching and player development staff. Look at what they've done with Dakota Joshua.der doesn't fit into the Canucks windowed timeline as cup contender.  

Also, Boeser had a wrist injury in his sophomore season with UND in 2016-17

Edited August 9 by Pure961089

[Pure961089]

On 7/13/2024 at 2:59 PM, -dlc- said:

This is his father's team. Some things factor in beyond just $$$ and he scored 40 goals with guys who he had chemistry with and he'd likely want to stay with (JT).

 

So....yes.

 

Remember JT also took a discount and some here thought he'd chase the money to go "home". He decided this is home.

 

Players don't always go for the most they can make...they consider other things as well. Brock is a guy who would likely take a bit less to be happy and feel at home. He's had a rough go and being "settled" is likely important to him. He's just really getting that level of comfort and may not want to rock the boat too much.

I remember when the media was saying the only way to trade players like Garland, Myers and Boeser was if we added a sweetener.  Boeser goes on to score 40, and the media in Vancouver looked like clowns...once again.  The Canucks organization stuck with him throughout all the injuries and remained loyal to Brock and his family.  I think that loyalty goes a long way and I don't think Boeser wants to go anywhere.  There's a deal to be made where both sides are happy.  

[EastCoastExpress]

On 7/17/2024 at 3:27 PM, higgyfan said:

It will be tough going trying to sign Brock, as the first 2 years of the contract will be effected by the

Mik/OEL dead cap $5.4m and $4.5m.  Hogs will also require a new contract and Demko the next year.

 

Unfortunately, there isn't much salary in the UFAs that will be walking at the end of the coming season,

so they will be relying on the Salary Cap continuing to increase, but that won't be enough for Hogs/Brock

contracts.

 

9 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Most likely have to move Garland to sign him. Garland only has one year after this one anyway. I think Boeser will be more valuable to this management group if it comes down to one or the other. Hoglander is a good move candidate as well and this season will be interesting for him. His defence and jam is lacking so I'm not sure where he would fit in future wise and what we could pay him. Demko obviously needs to be re-signed, but hopefully after an injury free season

They have 2.5 Million coming off the books with Poolman contract. Considering they are already bursting at the seams with players, they dont need to put Poolman in LTIR, so there is room for Boeser and Hoglander contracts.

The Value in signing Boeser to an 8 year deal NOW rather than later, is the fact we keep 4 LEGIT top forwards (2 duo's) for the next 6 years when JT contract expires.

that is

EP 11.4

JT 8.0

JD 5.5

BB 8.4

for a total of 33.5 million till 2030! Other teams paying over 40 million NOW (see toronto)

[EastCoastExpress]

On 7/7/2024 at 5:31 PM, stawns said:

 

My argument about miller was more into his mid to late 30's........when he'll still be faster than boeser is now.

 

BZb had a great year, absolutely played to his contract and definitely rounded out hus game.  But, he is still average to below average in the speed dept and that is almost surely going to age poorly, imo

Jeez, Joshua just had his best season ever a year older than Boeser. Joshua is "fast" compared to what you think of Brock, but Brock scored more than twice the goals.

Mikheylev was also twice as fast as Boeser. What friggin good did that do?

Boeser quietly gets open and overlooked by "slowing down" and playing smart. Its one thing to be fast but its another thing to score when you get the shot.

Watch Ovetchkin highlights. Brock knows what he is doing.

[higgyfan]

20 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Most likely have to move Garland to sign him. Garland only has one year after this one anyway. I think Boeser will be more valuable to this management group if it comes down to one or the other. Hoglander is a good move candidate as well and this season will be interesting for him. His defence and jam is lacking so I'm not sure where he would fit in future wise and what we could pay him. Demko obviously needs to be re-signed, but hopefully after an injury free season

 

Garland's contract would even out the dead cap.  I'm guessing the salary cap will go up, just like it

has been doing the last couple of years, so I guess some of that could go towards Brock's increase.

I'm guessing that there will be 2 or 3 prospects joining the ranks, so that would be helpful.

 

Canucks are low on RW talent (other than Lekky), with just Karlsson and Klimovich (who is not even

close to NHL ready).  Unless they trade Garly + Hogs for a cheaper top 6 RW, Brock is probably your guy.

 

It really depends on how much $ x term he wants. 

[EastCoastExpress]

2 hours ago, higgyfan said:

 

Garland's contract would even out the dead cap.  I'm guessing the salary cap will go up, just like it

has been doing the last couple of years, so I guess some of that could go towards Brock's increase.

I'm guessing that there will be 2 or 3 prospects joining the ranks, so that would be helpful.

 

Canucks are low on RW talent (other than Lekky), with just Karlsson and Klimovich (who is not even

close to NHL ready).  Unless they trade Garly + Hogs for a cheaper top 6 RW, Brock is probably your guy.

 

It really depends on how much $ x term he wants. 

Poolman's contract falling off covers the OEL increase cap hit, so if Brock is the only one needing a raise next year, they have the Cap increase to do it with.

Brady Tkachuk's contract is a close representation of what Boeser is worth (8.2mx8), and locked in for long term its going to age well, like we have seen with JT's contract.

Still would leave a few million in the bank for some rentals, and planning for Demko's contract.... Hughes after that....

 

If we lock in BB06 till 2031 our window goes from win it all this year to win it all for 4 or 5 years. Can even keep Garlund!

[canucks curse]

Obviously what they are doing - wait to see how he does and what he is asking for 

[canucks curse]

6 minutes ago, EastCoastExpress said:

Poolman's contract falling off covers the OEL increase cap hit, so if Brock is the only one needing a raise next year, they have the Cap increase to do it with.

Brady Tkachuk's contract is a close representation of what Boeser is worth (8.2mx8), and locked in for long term its going to age well, like we have seen with JT's contract.

Still would leave a few million in the bank for some rentals, and planning for Demko's contract.... Hughes after that....

 

If we lock in BB06 till 2031 our window goes from win it all this year to win it all for 4 or 5 years. Can even keep Garlund!

Neither Tkachuk is a comparable for BB6

[EastCoastExpress]

10 minutes ago, canucks curse said:

Neither Tkachuk is a comparable for BB6

Well obviously, Boeser has way better hair and the nicest guy around the league. Lady Bing in the future for sure. The only Brock haters out there seem to be Canucks fans!

[Gawdzukes]

14 hours ago, EastCoastExpress said:

 

They have 2.5 Million coming off the books with Poolman contract. Considering they are already bursting at the seams with players, they dont need to put Poolman in LTIR, so there is room for Boeser and Hoglander contracts.

The Value in signing Boeser to an 8 year deal NOW rather than later, is the fact we keep 4 LEGIT top forwards (2 duo's) for the next 6 years when JT contract expires.

that is

EP 11.4

JT 8.0

JD 5.5

BB 8.4

for a total of 33.5 million till 2030! Other teams paying over 40 million NOW (see toronto)

 

We also need to upgrade RD eventually, and LD for that matter. Plus a legit 3C, and re-upping Demko. Honestly I don't see the money available you are. Hoglander needs to serve a specific purpose... he shouldn't just be signed as a spare part. His salary is going up.

 

3 hours ago, higgyfan said:

 

Garland's contract would even out the dead cap.  I'm guessing the salary cap will go up, just like it

has been doing the last couple of years, so I guess some of that could go towards Brock's increase.

I'm guessing that there will be 2 or 3 prospects joining the ranks, so that would be helpful.

 

Canucks are low on RW talent (other than Lekky), with just Karlsson and Klimovich (who is not even

close to NHL ready).  Unless they trade Garly + Hogs for a cheaper top 6 RW, Brock is probably your guy.

 

It really depends on how much $ x term he wants. 

 

Yep, super low on RW. I just don’t really know how we keep Garland unless we want to keep dancing around the cap and continue icing compromised line-ups. Do trust this group though do we'll see what they do.