Climate Change Thread

[4petesake]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

China is actually doing fat more than we are developing technology to deal with it.

 

 

53 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Seeing as they are one of the top polluters in the world; they should be leading the rest of the world in finding solutions. The US and India should also be at the head of the pack in that regard.

 

 

How China Became the World’s Leader on Renewable Energy

China has achieved stunning growth in its installed renewable capacity over the last two decades, far outpacing the rest of the world. But to end its continued dependence on fossil fuels, it must now move ahead with planned reforms to its national electricity system.

BY ISABEL HILTON • MARCH 13, 2024

 

 

https://e360.yale.edu/features/china-renewable-energy

 

 

How China Became the World’s Clean Tech Giant 

Analyzing China’s dominance in the wind, solar, and electric vehicle sectors.

 

By Rakshith Shetty

April 27, 2024

 

 

https://thediplomat.com/2024/04/how-china-became-the-worlds-clean-tech-giant/

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Seeing as they are one of the top polluters in the world; they should be leading the rest of the world in finding solutions. The US and India should also be at the head of the pack in that regard.

 

 

true, but we all own a little piece of that smog cloud with all the stuff we buy from them. 

[The Lock]

4 hours ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Seeing as they are one of the top polluters in the world; they should be leading the rest of the world in finding solutions. The US and India should also be at the head of the pack in that regard.

 

I honestly don't think it should matter who's leading. What should matter is everyone doing their part. Ideally, everyone should be leading.

 

This whole who's leading and who's not is nothing more than deflection of the problem at hand.

Edited August 26 by The Lock

[flat land fish]

5 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

China is actually doing fat more than we are developing technology to deal with it.

 

Hoe many coal fire power plants have they opened in the last 5 years compared to Canada, USA and Europe?  We have offshored emissions to China in a major way even selling them the coal to burn there instead of locally 

[Kootenay Gold]

1 hour ago, The Lock said:

 

I honestly don't think it should matter who's leading. What should matter is everyone doing their part. Ideally, everyone should be leading.

 

This whole who's leading and who's not is nothing more than deflection of the problem at hand.

I agree that all should be doing their part but the bottom line is that those countries that are creating the most CO2 emissions should be striving the hardest to find viable solutions.

 

Canada could be a CO2 zero emitter but it would make very little difference to the overall problem. One area that we do not hear much about is global shipping. It creates more CO2 emissions than all of Canada. Whose responsibility is that attached to?

 

Edited August 27 by Kootenay Gold

[The Lock]

8 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

I agree that all should be doing their part but the bottom line is that those countries that are creating the most CO2 emissions should be striving the hardest to find viable solutions.

 

How about this: the countries that are creating the most CO2 are the countries that need to be held accountable the most if they are not keeping up with everyone else.

 

(Edit: typed help instead of held)

Edited August 27 by The Lock

[Kootenay Gold]

Just now, The Lock said:

 

How about this: the countries that are creating the most CO2 are the countries that need to be help accountable the most if they are not keeping up with everyone else.

I can live with that.

 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, flat land fish said:

Hoe many coal fire power plants have they opened in the last 5 years compared to Canada, USA and Europe?  We have offshored emissions to China in a major way even selling them the coal to burn there instead of locally 

 

We are 3% of their population.

[Spur1]

9 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

We are 3% of their population.

Good thing as we are among the top polluters per capita. 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Spur1 said:

Good thing as we are among the top polluters per capita. 

 

That is an interesting statistic. 

[UnkNuk]

There are good reasons why China is to top emitter of greenhouse gases.  They have a huge population that is also relatively poor and so they are trying to improve their living standards.

 

Problem is, it doesn't matter whether greenhouse gases are being emitted for good reasons or bad reasons.  What matters is that they are being emitted.  And China is emitting a lot of greenhouse gases.

 

 

[Kootenay Gold]

1 hour ago, Spur1 said:

Good thing as we are among the top polluters per capita. 

If you take into consideration the vast size of Canada and its sparse population relative to many other countries it makes sense that we pollute more as we have a predominately cold climate and great distances between our larges cities.

[Spur1]

1 hour ago, Kootenay Gold said:

If you take into consideration the vast size of Canada and its sparse population relative to many other countries it makes sense that we pollute more as we have a predominately cold climate and great distances between our larges cities.

Not to mention the toys. I see quads and side by sides. Golf clubs and trips. Kayaks and boats of all descriptions. Dirt bikes, Harleys, fancy trucks. At least 5% of cars I see on the road are over $100,000.  Not to mention trucks and winter trips to Mexico. Yup we are broken. 
No worries 

[Kootenay Gold]

29 minutes ago, Spur1 said:

Not to mention the toys. I see quads and side by sides. Golf clubs and trips. Kayaks and boats of all descriptions. Dirt bikes, Harleys, fancy trucks. At least 5% of cars I see on the road are over $100,000.  Not to mention trucks and winter trips to Mexico. Yup we are broken. 
No worries 

My big splurge was buying a kayak when I retired. Lots of small lakes within 30 miles or less where I live. Never owned a Motorbike, ATV or fancy truck or boat. Drove 2 of my vehicles for 17 years each. Also drive less than 10,000 km / yr.

[Spur1]

1 hour ago, Kootenay Gold said:

My big splurge was buying a kayak when I retired. Lots of small lakes within 30 miles or less where I live. Never owned a Motorbike, ATV or fancy truck or boat. Drove 2 of my vehicles for 17 years each. Also drive less than 10,000 km / yr.

That is how we got by. I just live up the road from you just under 2hrs.  Grew up with no power or running water in the house for the first few years. I remember going to the creek with my sisters to get pails of water to boil in the cook stove for drinking and washing. We got running water and a fuel oil furnace when I was 10. 

[6YPE]

9 hours ago, flat land fish said:

Hoe many coal fire power plants have they opened in the last 5 years compared to Canada, USA and Europe?  We have offshored emissions to China in a major way even selling them the coal to burn there instead of locally 

 

Canada sells coal but the liberal government doesn't want anything to do with selling LNG, a much cleaner alternative, to help bring emissions down to countries that could use it. Funny how they say LNG is bad while they sell coal 

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds-not-interested-in-investing-in-lng-facilities-energy-minister-1.6828149

Edited August 27 by 6YPE

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, 6YPE said:

 

Canada sells coal but the liberal government doesn't want anything to do with selling LNG, a much cleaner alternative, to help bring emissions down to countries that could use it. Funny how they say LNG is bad while they sell coal 

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds-not-interested-in-investing-in-lng-facilities-energy-minister-1.6828149

IMHO LNG and oil producers should get carbon credits when they export their production overseas and replace higher carbon usage. Also do not believe that native and environmental activist should be able to tie up energy projects in the courts for extended periods. 

[MattJVD]

7 hours ago, 6YPE said:

 

Canada sells coal but the liberal government doesn't want anything to do with selling LNG, a much cleaner alternative, to help bring emissions down to countries that could use it. Funny how they say LNG is bad while they sell coal 

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds-not-interested-in-investing-in-lng-facilities-energy-minister-1.6828149

I got a different take away from that article. It says there are 8 export oriented LNG facilities under construction in Canada, that they support LNG displacing carbon-heavier fuel sources, but they are done with using (federal) public money to subsidize them. Provinces can still work with the private sector to start new projects of they want.

 

Edit: Industry Canada says that 59% of coal exports are metallurgical coal, used as the carbon additive to make steel. Unfortunately, (as far as I know) we don't have a cleaner steel making process yet.

Edited August 27 by MattJVD

[4petesake]

7 hours ago, 6YPE said:

 

Canada sells coal but the liberal government doesn't want anything to do with selling LNG, a much cleaner alternative, to help bring emissions down to countries that could use it. Funny how they say LNG is bad while they sell coal 

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds-not-interested-in-investing-in-lng-facilities-energy-minister-1.6828149

 

Good, LNG should be for the private sector like the plant in Kitimat set to begin production in 2025? LNG Canada is the largest private sector investment in Canadian history with more than 30,000 Canadians having worked on the project and 9000 workers locally in Kitimat. It is expected to more than double BC’s natural gas royalties to $1.43B by 2027. Emissions are 35% lower than the world’s best performing facilities and 60% lower than the global weighted average. 
 

The impacts are already being felt. More than 30,000 Canadians have worked on our project to date, with almost 9,000 Canadians employed at our Kitimat site in January this year alone. The cumulative value of our project’s contracts and subcontracts to local, Indigenous and other businesses in B.C. has already exceeded $4.7 billion and includes more than $3.8 billion to Indigenous-owned and local area businesses.

It also includes a $500 million contract with HaiSea Marine, a joint venture between the Haisla Nation and North Vancouver-based Seaspan that will provide harbour and escort tugboat services to LNG Canada with its innovative fleet of battery-powered and low emissions vessels.

[Bob Long]

4 hours ago, Boudrias said:

IMHO LNG and oil producers should get carbon credits when they export their production overseas and replace higher carbon usage. Also do not believe that native and environmental activist should be able to tie up energy projects in the courts for extended periods. 

 

this part is really sad to me, the elected bands want these projects.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

18 minutes ago, MattJVD said:

Industry Canada says that 59% of coal exports are metallurgical coal, used as the carbon additive to make steel. Unfortunately, (as far as I know) we don't have a cleaner steel making process yet.

 

"Carbon-free" or "fossil-fuel-free" steelmaking is already a thing.  Industrial output quantities expected to be available around 2026:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrvetter/2021/08/19/how-sweden-delivered-the-worlds-first-fossil-fuel-free-steel/

 

 

[Warhippy]

7 hours ago, 6YPE said:

 

Canada sells coal but the liberal government doesn't want anything to do with selling LNG, a much cleaner alternative, to help bring emissions down to countries that could use it. Funny how they say LNG is bad while they sell coal 

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds-not-interested-in-investing-in-lng-facilities-energy-minister-1.6828149

Pretty sure that article only says they don't want to subsidize LNG with tax dollars, not that they don't want LNG at all

[MattJVD]

20 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

"Carbon-free" or "fossil-fuel-free" steelmaking is already a thing.  Industrial output quantities expected to be available around 2026:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrvetter/2021/08/19/how-sweden-delivered-the-worlds-first-fossil-fuel-free-steel/

 

 

Cool! Thanks for the link. That's news to me

[Gurn]

17 hours ago, Kootenay Gold said:

 

 

 One area that we do not hear much about is global shipping. It creates more CO2 emissions than all of Canada. Whose responsibility is that attached to?

 

On time shipping- is a big issue. Need to have things in a port on a certain day.

Sad- as from a tech stand point it would be relatively easy to build sail powered freighters, with a diesel-or electric battery 'kicker'-for days of no wind.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

22 minutes ago, Gurn said:

On time shipping- is a big issue. Need to have things in a port on a certain day.

Sad- as from a tech stand point it would be relatively easy to build sail powered freighters, with a diesel-or electric battery 'kicker'-for days of no wind.

 

I remember when my wife was scrambling to get supplies over the course of the pandemic - stuff like masks (surgical and KN94), stationery (she makes cards as a hobby), and other items only available in HK.  At one point, there was no air traffic available to provide airmail services, so stuff had to be shipped by sea cargo.

 

"On time" in that context was anything but.

You could catch the shipping cut-off in HK but there was no guarantee the item would make it on the boat.

Your item could make it on the ship, but there was no guarantee the ship would be on schedule.

Your ship could be on schedule, but no guarantee it wouldn't capsize or attacked by pirates and the goods forever lost.

Your ship could make it to port, but no guarantee people would process it on arrival in port.

Your item could be processed in port, but no guarantee it would be shipped out of the port.

Your item could make it out of port for land transport, but no guarantee the driver won't hit an overpass after leaving port, no guarantee trains will actually run, and no guarantee the item won't get stranded by the results of climate change.

 

I can't remember the exact timeframe of one of the shipments (it was in 2021, I think), but the confluence of a number of the items listed above formed the "perfect storm" that caused her items to take more than a half year to get from HK to our home in the lower mainland that would've taken a few days if by plane or about a month by ship.  I'm sure in that particular case (given the large number of boxes of KN94 masks that formed the basis of that shipment) she would've loved "on time shipping" to actually be "on time" for once.  

 

But yes, shipping can be done cleaner.  I think the main problem is the cost of retrofitting the ships with modern technology, and the associated (unknown) maintenance costs after retrofitting.  Most companies are run by bean counters who would rather keep running older, dirtier technology because the costs are much less (and much more predictable).