Climate Change Thread

[aGENT]

On 8/26/2024 at 5:15 PM, Kootenay Gold said:

One area that we do not hear much about is global shipping. It creates more CO2 emissions than all of Canada. Whose responsibility is that attached to?

 

Consumers, AKA: us.

[Kootenay Gold]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Consumers, AKA: us.

Very true but how do you convince the masses to change their buying habits? Almost an impossible task when they can buy cheap Chinese made consumer goods than they can buy home made items.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

1 minute ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Very true but how do you convince the masses to change their buying habits? Almost an impossible task when they can buy cheap Chinese made consumer goods than they can buy home made items.

 

It can be done, just depends on the willingness to consciously act consistently on it.

Any item that shows as "made in prc" is already something that I will seek alternates for, whether it be made locally or made by allied countries.  For those items that say "assembled in Canada using domestic and imported items", there's not much I can do about those if they choose not to disclose their source, but I will try to avoid those items as well if I can find a suitable alternate that is locally produced.

 

Took a while for me to get into the habit, but it can be done.

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Very true but how do you convince the masses to change their buying habits? Almost an impossible task when they can buy cheap Chinese made consumer goods than they can buy home made items.

 

Education? People are addicted to cheap crap and caught in the downward spiral of race to the bottom wages that force them to buy more cheap crap from the worst companies, get groceries from the Walmarts and Loblaws rather than supporting local farmers, stores etc, etc...

 

It's honestly baffling to me the willful ignorance the masses have to their own purchasing choices. Buy local/domestic/continental. Support companies who compensate/treat employees fairly. Support companies that respect the environment. Suddenly a lot of our economic and environmental problems start to shrink. 

 

People keep waiting for governments/corporations to fix things. WE NEED TO BE THE ONES TO CHANGE.

Edited August 28 by aGENT

[Kootenay Gold]

10 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

It can be done, just depends on the willingness to consciously act consistently on it.

Any item that shows as "made in prc" is already something that I will seek alternates for, whether it be made locally or made by allied countries.  For those items that say "assembled in Canada using domestic and imported items", there's not much I can do about those if they choose not to disclose their source, but I will try to avoid those items as well if I can find a suitable alternate that is locally produced.

 

Took a while for me to get into the habit, but it can be done.

I do this as well but most do not. Hard to change that mindset. Families struggling to get by are more likely to buy the cheapest item that they want or need. I am retired with a good work and Canada pension so I can afford to pay extra for better quality home made goods.

[Bob Long]

11 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Education? People are addicted to cheap crap and caught in the downward spiral of race to the bottom wages that force them to buy more cheap crap from the worst companies, get groceries from the Walmarts and Loblaws rather than supporting local farmers, stores etc, etc...

 

It's honestly baffling to me the willful ignorance the masses have to their own purchasing choices. By local/domestic/continental. Support companies who compensate/treat employees fairly. Support companies that respect the environment. Suddenly a lot of our economic and environmental problems start to shrink. 

 

People keep waiting for governments/corporations to fix things. WE NEED TO BE THE ONES TO CHANGE.

 

Maybe part of this is we need to find good, not perfect solutions?

 

Loblaws does pretty good, much of the time. Walmart is a bad thing more of the time. 

 

Sometimes try a farmers market.

 

I think sometimes the more people chase idealism the more the world looks like shit, when really shifting a few simple things some of the time is actually really powerful.

 

[MattJVD]

14 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Education? People are addicted to cheap crap and caught in the downward spiral of race to the bottom wages that force them to buy more cheap crap from the worst companies, get groceries from the Walmarts and Loblaws rather than supporting local farmers, stores etc, etc...

 

It's honestly baffling to me the willful ignorance the masses have to their own purchasing choices. By local/domestic/continental. Support companies who compensate/treat employees fairly. Support companies that respect the environment. Suddenly a lot of our economic and environmental problems start to shrink. 

 

People keep waiting for governments/corporations to fix things. WE NEED TO BE THE ONES TO CHANGE.

Liking the cheap crap is part of it, sure. But there are plenty of people who can only afford the cheap crap too. I don't blame them if they buy the $40 Chinese toy for their kid, rather than the $120 Danish toy. Food and clothes too, lots of young families can't afford a $40 union-made pair pants for their 3 year old when you can get a similar pair at Superstore for $7. That's the difference between having toys and clothes or not having them for a lot of families and kids out there.

 

[MattJVD]

10 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Maybe part of this is we need to find good, not perfect solutions?

 

Loblaws does pretty good, much of the time. Walmart is a bad thing more of the time. 

 

Sometimes try a farmers market.

 

I think sometimes the more people chase idealism the more the world looks like shit, when really shifting a few simple things some of the time is actually really powerful.

 

For people with kids: Mine love those mixed fruit and vegetable sauce pouches. Superstore sells certified organic, no sugar added pouches for $1 each. Comparable products are like $3+ each at other grocery stores. Even the lower quality one are at least $1.99 at most other grocery stores. I highly recommend giving the President's Choice ones a try if your kids like that kind of thing. 

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, MattJVD said:

For people with kids: Mine love those mixed fruit and vegetable sauce pouches. Superstore sells certified organic, no sugar added pouches for $1 each. Comparable products are like $3+ each at other grocery stores. Even the lower quality one are at least $1.99 at most other grocery stores. I highly recommend giving the President's Choice ones a try if your kids like that kind of thing. 

 

you have to look around and figure it out, but yep there are good deals out there. I think we did 3 stores when my daughter was going to school to get all of it. 

 

Once its in your routine its not that hard.

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, MattJVD said:

Liking the cheap crap is part of it, sure. But there are plenty of people who can only afford the cheap crap too. I don't blame them if they buy the $40 Chinese toy for their kid, rather than the $120 Danish toy. Food and clothes too, lots of young families can't afford a $40 union-made pair pants for their 3 year old when you can get a similar pair at Superstore for $7. That's the difference between having toys and clothes or not having them for a lot of families and kids out there.

 

 

But that's exactly the spiraling race to the bottom I was referring to. Why can't they afford those things? Because we don't have enough well paying jobs here, for products made here, because we've offshored so much of that production and those jobs elsewhere to be "competitive". Therefore you can no longer afford to shop at your neighbours store and support local businesses and products, so they can in turn buy products from the company you work for and on and on it goes. 

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

But that's exactly the spiraling race to the bottom I was referring to. Why can't they afford those things? Because we don't have enough well paying jobs here, for products made here, because we've offshored so much of that production and those jobs elsewhere to be "competitive". Therefore you can no longer afford to shop at your neighbours store and support local businesses and products, so they can in turn buy products from the company you work for and on and on it goes. 

 

productivity is also an issue here as well: https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2024/03/time-to-break-the-glass-fixing-canadas-productivity-problem/

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly that we need to bring back more manufacturing and push for people buying higher quality whenever possible. Despite what the oil guys will tell you, Canada does have a pretty decent manufacturing base we can build from.

 

[aGENT]

17 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

productivity is also an issue here as well: https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2024/03/time-to-break-the-glass-fixing-canadas-productivity-problem/

 

Yes, and a lack of competition being one of the bigger obstacles there. Yet we keep seeing things like the recent Shaw/Rogers merger, which I find completely baffling.

 

17 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly that we need to bring back more manufacturing and push for people buying higher quality whenever possible. Despite what the oil guys will tell you, Canada does have a pretty decent manufacturing base we can build from.

 

 

As an added bonus, besides the obvious economic, wage etc benefits, in the event of another pandemic or conflict driven supply chain issues, having domestic manufacturing, food production etc would be a HUGE insulator for inflation. But again, that means consumers have to choose to purchase better quality, locally/domestically made/grown/sold products over cheaper, foreign alternatives. Globalization in many ways has been great, but it also sold people the false idea that we have to get cheaper, and cheaper and offshore etc. We need to get off the race to the bottom.

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Yes, and a lack of competition being one of the bigger obstacles there. Yet we keep seeing things like the recent Shaw/Rogers merger, which I find completely baffling.

 

 

As an added bonus, besides the obvious economic, wage etc benefits, in the event of another pandemic or conflict driven supply chain issues, having domestic manufacturing, food production etc would be a HUGE insulator for inflation. But again, that means consumers have to choose to purchase better quality, locally/domestically made/grown/sold products over cheaper, foreign alternatives. Globalization in many ways has been great, but it also sold people the false idea that we have to get cheaper, and cheaper and offshore etc. We need to get off the race to the bottom.

 

we don't have to make everything, just more things. 

 

We want to be a net export country, which means we have to make concessions to sell to the rest of the world, so globalization is here to stay.

 

But why we aren't making more of our own produce is a head scratcher. But look at the recent failure of BC Fruit and the lack of support to keep that going. 

 

[Spur1]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Yes, and a lack of competition being one of the bigger obstacles there. Yet we keep seeing things like the recent Shaw/Rogers merger, which I find completely baffling.

 

 

As an added bonus, besides the obvious economic, wage etc benefits, in the event of another pandemic or conflict driven supply chain issues, having domestic manufacturing, food production etc would be a HUGE insulator for inflation. But again, that means consumers have to choose to purchase better quality, locally/domestically made/grown/sold products over cheaper, foreign alternatives. Globalization in many ways has been great, but it also sold people the false idea that we have to get cheaper, and cheaper and offshore etc. We need to get off the race to the bottom.

I am very lucky to live in an area that has Farm to the Table delivery in the summer. We have been enjoying locally grown produce delivered once a week with online ordering for a reasonable price. The small amount extra price is more than made up for with the quality and taste. We also waste less because it lasts longer not having being already shipped across the continent. 
The farm uses solar panels for the greenhouses. 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

9 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

But why we aren't making more of our own produce is a head scratcher. But look at the recent failure of BC Fruit and the lack of support to keep that going. 

 

Probably because: 1. it's a lot less work and a bit more profitable to be either doing wines or repurposing the land for tourism instead of agriculture (or if you're that guy on this site who claims he's knowledgeable about real estate, converting ALR lands to townhouses and apartments that are ultimately priced outside of the affordability of local residents), and 2. economy of scale makes it less expensive to ship from the other side of the country/continent/globe to places in Canada than it is for the smaller farms that we have to get their quality produce to grocery stores and ultimately tables locally (not to mention that there's probably also a lot of anti-competitive actions by grocers who choose to block out local farmers in favour of their established suppliers).

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Probably because: 1. it's a lot less work and a bit more profitable to be either doing wines or repurposing the land for tourism instead of agriculture (or if you're that guy on this site who claims he's knowledgeable about real estate, converting ALR lands to townhouses and apartments that are ultimately priced outside of the affordability of local residents), and 2. economy of scale makes it less expensive to ship from the other side of the country/continent/globe to places in Canada than it is for the smaller farms that we have to get their quality produce to grocery stores and ultimately tables locally (not to mention that there's probably also a lot of anti-competitive actions by grocers who choose to block out local farmers in favour of their established suppliers).

 

so no help for our BC fruit producers? just let it go? 

[aGENT]

9 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

we don't have to make everything, just more things. 

 

We want to be a net export country, which means we have to make concessions to sell to the rest of the world, so globalization is here to stay.

 

But why we aren't making more of our own produce is a head scratcher. But look at the recent failure of BC Fruit and the lack of support to keep that going. 

 

 

No certainly not everything, we're unlikely to start manufacturing smart phones or TV's for instance. But there's LOT of capacity for other things, especially food, as you said, that we simply aren't anywhere close to taking advantage of. Buy local/domestic should be a far more engrained concept.

 

2 minutes ago, Spur1 said:

I am very lucky to live in an area that has Farm to the Table delivery in the summer. We have been enjoying locally grown produce delivered once a week with online ordering for a reasonable price. The small amount extra price is more than made up for with the quality and taste. We also waste less because it lasts longer not having being already shipped across the continent. 
The farm uses solar panels for the greenhouses. 

 

Same, live in the Cowichan Valley and we're blessed with a bounty of amazing local produce, dairy, meat etc. Happy to spend a bit more for the fresher, tastier, longer lasting quality we get while supporting local businesses and polluting less. It is harder to get stuff in the winter though and we end up back at the local stores unfortunately but yes, we should be encouraging things like solar powered greenhouses so that these wonderful, local folks can supply us with delicious locally sourced food for more of the year!

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

(not to mention that there's probably also a lot of anti-competitive actions by grocers who choose to block out local farmers in favour of their established suppliers).

 

This.

 

It's sad and embarrassing how little local produce/products I see at our local chain stores. The entire grocery system is setup so bass-akwards from environmental and quality and anti-competitive it's embarassing.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

so no help for our BC fruit producers? just let it go? 

 

I have to admit that I don't know the answer to that question by reason of the fact that I'm not in that industry and am unaware of what has transpired prior to and what the fallout and possible consequences of this unanticipated failure would be.  I mean, I can buy more BC fruit, as can you, our neighbours, and our neighbours' neighbours could - but unless and until there's a more industry-wide consensus approach through some degree of self-organization and some degree of grocers' willingness to stock their product, any sort of local action to support them is kind of limited.  Not to mention that part of the issue with BC Fruit (the organization) was the secondary manufacturing and distribution sides of things that will now need to be handled individually by each and every farm serviced by BC Fruit.

[Bob Long]

Just now, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

I have to admit that I don't know the answer to that question by reason of the fact that I'm not in that industry and am unaware of what has transpired prior to and what the fallout and possible consequences of this unanticipated failure would be.  I mean, I can buy more BC fruit, as can you, our neighbours, and our neighbours' neighbours could - but unless and until there's a more industry-wide consensus approach through some degree of self-organization and some degree of grocers' willingness to stock their product, any sort of local action to support them is kind of limited.  Not to mention that part of the issue with BC Fruit (the organization) was the secondary manufacturing and distribution sides of things that will now need to be handled individually by each and every farm serviced by BC Fruit.

 

the gov't could have stepped in with funding to save the co-op, but chose not to. 

 

So to @aGENT's point, until we're smarter about this, we'll probably lose more local products and farmers. 

 

[The Arrogant Worms]

Certified organic

Statements made in connection with the requirement to declare the name of the certification body, including but not limited to "certified by", "certified organic by", "certified organic" and "organic certified", are acceptable provided they are immediately followed by the name of the certification body, or included as part of the certification body logo. As the purpose is to communicate who certified the product, these statements should not be displayed more prominently than the name of the certification body.

"Certified organic" and other similar claims are not acceptable and are considered misleading if they are used without being in connection to the name of the certification body, as it implies that products without this claim are not certified. For example, such claims should not be made in association with the product name (such as "certified organic apples").

[aGENT]

32 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

the gov't could have stepped in with funding to save the co-op, but chose not to. 

 

So to @aGENT's point, until we're smarter about this, we'll probably lose more local products and farmers. 

 

 

Maybe we need something akin to CanCon regs in the grocery industry...

[Bob Long]

12 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Maybe we need something akin to CanCon regs in the grocery industry...

 

thats a great idea, not sure what the grocery rules are, tbh I've never looked into it. 

 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

52 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

the gov't could have stepped in with funding to save the co-op, but chose not to. 

 

So to @aGENT's point, until we're smarter about this, we'll probably lose more local products and farmers. 

 

 

Again, I don't know enough of the industry to know whether or not it'd be feasible for the government to intervene sufficiently to "save" things.

 

As for that 2nd sentence... the petty self-interest part of me is wondering if farmland prices will cave enough for me to consider buying my own acreage for retirement, so that I can eventually sit on the porch in a rocking chair, with my pooch beside me, beer in one hand, and a super-soaker (or whatever newfangled hand-held device that can push water out with enough pressure that it could be mistaken for a fire hose) in the other hand while yelling out, "git off muh property!" 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Again, I don't know enough of the industry to know whether or not it'd be feasible for the government to intervene sufficiently to "save" things.

 

As for that 2nd sentence... the petty self-interest part of me is wondering if farmland prices will cave enough for me to consider buying my own acreage for retirement, so that I can eventually sit on the porch in a rocking chair, with my pooch beside me, beer in one hand, and a super-soaker (or whatever newfangled hand-held device that can push water out with enough pressure that it could be mistaken for a fire hose) in the other hand while yelling out, "git off muh property!" 

 

as long as I can still buy apricots, you chase that porch dream.