Climate Change Thread

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Gurn said:

When you car is not using gas, what is it using for power?

Iirc it is electricity- so you are using a partial electric car?

If partial electric cars are better than ice, wouldn't totally electric cars be better than that?

It uses both gas and electricity.   It uses gas only when it needs to - climbing a big hill say - and electricity as often as it can.   The turning of the wheels is constantly generating more electricity.   Mine is an 2008 Prius we've had since 2009.   God knows how much I've saved on gas in that time.  My wife's Prius is a 2017 we got in about 2019.    Both have required very little maintenance dollars.   I think they are great cars and it seems most cab companies agree.  Not a very cool ride but I'm long past caring about that.

 

Sorry, but I don't understand this line:  If partial electric cars are better than ice, wouldn't totally electric cars be better than that?

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, Satchmo said:

Sorry, but I don't understand this line:  If partial electric cars are better than ice, wouldn't totally electric cars be better than that?

If a totally electric car uses no gas, then it has zero emissions, is that not better than a car that sometimes  use gas, and that sometimes has emissions?

or as ole Shell Busey used to say

"Better, better, best"

[MattJVD]

1 hour ago, Gurn said:

When you car is not using gas, what is it using for power?

Iirc it is electricity- so you are using a partial electric car?

If partial electric cars are better than ice, wouldn't totally electric cars be better than that?

Some hybrids coming out now constantly run a small gas engine at it's most efficient RPM stictly for electicity generation. Then use an EV motor to actually drive the wheels. It's a pretty good set up from what I've heard

[Maniwaki Canuck]

5 hours ago, 5forFighting said:

Studies paid for by the EV companies. 

b.s.

[Satchmo]

Just now, Gurn said:

If a totally electric car uses no gas, then it has zero emissions, is that not better than a car that sometimes  use gas, and that sometimes has emissions?

or as ole Shell Busey used to say

"Better, better, best"

Yes, I'm sure it's better.   I'm now thinking that I should have explained why I'd get another Prius before an EV.   I guess I still have some questions on the current state of EV technology, but it's mostly my age, life style, and budget.  I'm old, retired, and, while comfortable enough, certainly on a fixed income.  No more newer cars for me.   

[Heretic]

14 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Firstly, you're using American numbers, whereas I used Canadian numbers.

 

Secondly, none of this backs up your claim that a single EV charge uses up to 10 times as much power as an average household uses in a day. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/ev-electric-vehicle-carbon-footprint-1.5394126

Miss quote?

"Some EV batteries today pack 10 times as much power as an average household uses in a day. And often, those electric vehicles are being charged at home."

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Heretic said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/ev-electric-vehicle-carbon-footprint-1.5394126

Miss quote?

"Some EV batteries today pack 10 times as much power as an average household uses in a day. And often, those electric vehicles are being charged at home."

 

Just a bad one. They are apparently looking at the smallest home use vs the largest possible EV battery size, it's very misleading.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

Just a bad one. They are apparently looking at the smallest home use vs the largest possible EV battery size, it's very misleading.

 

Media never does that! Why would you look at context?

 

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Media never does that! Why would you look at context?

 

 

The resistance to EVs is really fascinating. The apparent like of hydrogen combustion engines is just a delay tactic imo. 

 

I'd happily drive one when/if they ever get used in passenger vehicles but the storage issues make that unlikely for a while.

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

The resistance to EVs is really fascinating. The apparent like of hydrogen combustion engines is just a delay tactic imo. 

 

I'd happily drive one when/if they ever get used in passenger vehicles but the storage issues make that unlikely for a while.

I mean we're probably going to need more than one technology to transition off fossil fuels... And that likely includes continuing to refine the ICE, and using it in hybrids, PHEVs, running them on hydrogen (fleet vehicles?) etc for a while.

 

But yeah, EV's are available right now... Though personally, I'm waiting for solid state, that's apparently just on the horizon. Going to be a game changer.

 

That, and the recession are probably the two biggest reasons for any slow down in EV sales.

[Bob Long]

9 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I mean we're probably going to need more than one technology to transition off fossil fuels... And that likely includes continuing to refine the ICE, and using it in hybrids, PHEVs, running them on hydrogen (fleet vehicles?) etc for a while.

 

But yeah, EV's are available right now... Though personally, I'm waiting for solid state, that's apparently just on the horizon. Going to be a game changer.

 

That, and the recession are probably the two biggest reasons for any slow down in EV sales.

 

Solid state will be a big deal for sure. 

 

For now I'm enjoying my PHEV. Much cheaper to operate and a little full EV is nice. 

 

I'd go full electric but I'd lose too much value right now in a trade in, maybe in 2 years or so it'll work financially.

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

Solid state will be a big deal for sure. 

 

For now I'm enjoying my PHEV. Much cheaper to operate and a little full EV is nice. 

 

I'd go full electric but I'd lose too much value right now in a trade in, maybe in 2 years or so it'll work financially.

 

Eventually, I'll likely have an EV, or whatever tech is around at the time, if I need a vehicle. For now though, it doesn't make sense for my use case. Prince George's kind of isolated and the EV ranges aren't there yet so travelling would kind of suck still. I do see some EV's around though. My guess is that a lot of them don't use them for long distances but I could be wrong.

[5forFighting]

23 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

I'd add:

 

Doing the right thing. Being a global leader in next gen technology (design, manufacturing, infrastructure, resources etc). Jobs (that all those thing create). Exporting those things to the countries that are worse than us and will make a bigger dent on the global problem...

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/icbc-scraps-2022-electric-car-after-owners-faced-with-60000-bill-to-replace-damaged-battery-8015038

[The Lock]

39 minutes ago, 5forFighting said:

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/icbc-scraps-2022-electric-car-after-owners-faced-with-60000-bill-to-replace-damaged-battery-8015038

 

This is definately the current elephant in the room. Until the battery costs gets fixed, EV's will have a harder time being adopted by everyone.

[5forFighting]

1 hour ago, The Lock said:

 

This is definately the current elephant in the room. Until the battery costs gets fixed, EV's will have a harder time being adopted by everyone.

Not just the cost. Efficiency in weather, charge holding, environmental disaster making them, what to do with them once they fail. 

 

I like the concept of EVs, but there are so many things wrong with them. From the mining of the materials to stories like the above. Out of curiosity, I called to see what the replacement cost outside of the warranty for the batteries on a Tesla X would be. $16,000 each, $32,000 total. That's ridiculous. 

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, 5forFighting said:

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/icbc-scraps-2022-electric-car-after-owners-faced-with-60000-bill-to-replace-damaged-battery-8015038

 

Not sure what that has to do with what I posted but that certainly looks like a "right to repair" issue, and less so a "battery cost" issue. The replacement cost quoted for just the battery is roughly the equivalent of the price of the entire car. Brand new. Are we to believe Hyundai's giving people free cars with the purchase of a battery?

 

Similar problem to the way appliances are built now. Your 3-4 year old, $600 clothes dryer craps out and they want to charge you $150 (+25 shipping) to replace one of the three $10 circuit boards that may be causing the issue. $450 (+$25) if you order all three boards. Or you can just buy a new one for a bit more and at least have a warranty. With all the environmental damage that comes along with it.

 

We badly need right to repair laws that protect consumers from their price gouging and continuing cycle of consumerism and it's corresponding environmental damage.

Edited December 29, 2023 by aGENT

[Spur1]

15 hours ago, 5forFighting said:

Not just the cost. Efficiency in weather, charge holding, environmental disaster making them, what to do with them once they fail. 

 

I like the concept of EVs, but there are so many things wrong with them. From the mining of the materials to stories like the above. Out of curiosity, I called to see what the replacement cost outside of the warranty for the batteries on a Tesla X would be. $16,000 each, $32,000 total. That's ridiculous. 

I can’t help but think the future of EVs depends on batteries that can be swapped out in minutes at a station and pay a fee per exchange much like fueling up. It would solve a lot of the downside issues including battery life and recharging/range issues. 

[Heretic]

Well this is interesting:  "Sodium-ion batteries have lower density but are cheaper and perform better in cold weather."

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/the-first-ev-with-a-lithium-free-sodium-battery-hits-the-road-in-january-214828536.html?guccounter=1




https://www.gep.com/blog/strategy/lithium-ion-vs-sodium-ion-battery

[Bob Long]

5 hours ago, Heretic said:

Well this is interesting:  "Sodium-ion batteries have lower density but are cheaper and perform better in cold weather."

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/the-first-ev-with-a-lithium-free-sodium-battery-hits-the-road-in-january-214828536.html?guccounter=1




https://www.gep.com/blog/strategy/lithium-ion-vs-sodium-ion-battery

 

 

Issues with cycling tho: https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2022/02/engineers-reveal-cause-key-sodium-ion-battery-flaw

 

There are a number of interesting potential technologies out there, but right now lithium ion and fuel cell are by far the most reliable. Could change down the road though, we'll see. 

 

[RupertKBD]

On 12/28/2023 at 8:31 AM, Bob Long said:

The resistance to EVs is really fascinating. The apparent like of hydrogen combustion engines is just a delay tactic imo. 

 

I'd happily drive one when/if they ever get used in passenger vehicles but the storage issues make that unlikely for a while.

 

It's interesting to see how the arguments have evolved....

 

Not too long ago on CDC, posters like Forsberg and Strome were arguing that CC was a "hoax". The scientists that called it settled were either fakes, or they were just saying it to maintain their funding....

 

These days, nobody is foolish enough to try and argue the "hoax", or even the "overblown" position, so the go-to gambit against CC mitigation methods is always about finding reasons that they won't work.

 

I fully expect those positions to look equally as foolish as the "hoax" position in a few years.....hopefully it's not too late by that time.

 

[4petesake]

40 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

It's interesting to see how the arguments have evolved....

 

Not too long ago on CDC, posters like Forsberg and Strome were arguing that CC was a "hoax". The scientists that called it settled were either fakes, or they were just saying it to maintain their funding....

 

These days, nobody is foolish enough to try and argue the "hoax", or even the "overblown" position, so the go-to gambit against CC mitigation methods is always about finding reasons that they won't work.

 

I fully expect those positions to look equally as foolish as the "hoax" position in a few years.....hopefully it's not too late by that time.

 

 

It has a similar smell to the argument against any gun legislation in the US. 

-a background check wouldn’t have prevented this school shooting 

-this shooting would have happened even if we had 10 day wait to buy a gun

-red flag laws are an infringement on my rights & criminals will always get guns

-blah, blah, blah

 

Any excuse to do nothing instead of taking any small steps to try and accomplish something.  Deadlines have led to battery technology evolving and improving almost daily. Yes there will be missteps and course corrections as there always is with any new tech.

 

 

[5forFighting]

6 hours ago, Spur1 said:

I can’t help but think the future of EVs depends on batteries that can be swapped out in minutes at a station and pay a fee per exchange much like fueling up. It would solve a lot of the downside issues including battery life and recharging/range issues. 

While that makes sense, look what cell phone companies have done with their batteries. you used to be able to replace batteries and now more and more  you cannot, you end up having to buy a new phone. These companies are not in it to save the environment, they are doing it to make money. I hope people are never fooled by this. 

[5forFighting]

49 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

It's interesting to see how the arguments have evolved....

 

Not too long ago on CDC, posters like Forsberg and Strome were arguing that CC was a "hoax". The scientists that called it settled were either fakes, or they were just saying it to maintain their funding....

 

These days, nobody is foolish enough to try and argue the "hoax", or even the "overblown" position, so the go-to gambit against CC mitigation methods is always about finding reasons that they won't work.

 

I fully expect those positions to look equally as foolish as the "hoax" position in a few years.....hopefully it's not too late by that time.

 

There is lots of data showing the climate is changing, as it always has been. New data is coming out that humans don't have the impact they think they do. 

 

All while some countries destroy their economy in the name of social betterment and others decide not to take part at all. 

 

There needs to be balance. Don't move away from gas and diesel until something better and more reliable is available. 

[4petesake]

3 minutes ago, 5forFighting said:

While that makes sense, look what cell phone companies have done with their batteries. you used to be able to replace batteries and now more and more  you cannot, you end up having to buy a new phone. These companies are not in it to save the environment, they are doing it to make money. I hope people are never fooled by this. 

 

You’re not wrong. I think @aGENT referred to “right to repair “ laws earlier. We need to keep pushing for this.

[RupertKBD]

3 minutes ago, 5forFighting said:

There is lots of data showing the climate is changing, as it always has been. New data is coming out that humans don't have the impact they think they do. 

 

All while some countries destroy their economy in the name of social betterment and others decide not to take part at all. 

 

There needs to be balance. Don't move away from gas and diesel until something better and more reliable is available. 

 

Which countries have destroyed their economies?

 

Since you're so into "data", you might want to take a look at how much is being spent of mitigating the fires and floods that are the result of CC. You might find that we can't afford to do nothing....