Nooks Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 18 minutes ago, aGENT said: First - As others pointed out, nobody is suggesting this happen "overnight". Second - How do you think the oil industry (which whether you like it or not IS a sunset industry) became such an important part of this country's economy? Toothpaste, Parachutes, Helmets, Skis, Lifejackets, Guitar Strings, Paint, Sweeteners, Bicycles, Basketballs, Aspirin, Carpet, Antibiotics, Insulin, Heart Valves, Food Preservatives, Ink, Perfume, Contact lenses, Laptops, Piping, Tires, Deodorant, Nylons, Vitamins, Roofing, Nail Polish, Shampoo, Paint, Shoes, Medical Equipment, Batteries (), Asphalt, Carbon fibre, Circuit boards + at least 6000 others Gunna be one hell of a sunset. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 15 minutes ago, Nooks said: Toothpaste, Parachutes, Helmets, Skis, Lifejackets, Guitar Strings, Paint, Sweeteners, Bicycles, Basketballs, Aspirin, Carpet, Antibiotics, Insulin, Heart Valves, Food Preservatives, Ink, Perfume, Contact lenses, Laptops, Piping, Tires, Deodorant, Nylons, Vitamins, Roofing, Nail Polish, Shampoo, Paint, Shoes, Medical Equipment, Batteries (), Asphalt, Carbon fibre, Circuit boards + at least 6000 others Gunna be one hell of a sunset. Did I suggest it wasn't used in things other than fuel? By the way, you forgot lubricants. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Nooks said: Toothpaste, Parachutes, Helmets, Skis, Lifejackets, Guitar Strings, Paint, Sweeteners, Bicycles, Basketballs, Aspirin, Carpet, Antibiotics, Insulin, Heart Valves, Food Preservatives, Ink, Perfume, Contact lenses, Laptops, Piping, Tires, Deodorant, Nylons, Vitamins, Roofing, Nail Polish, Shampoo, Paint, Shoes, Medical Equipment, Batteries (), Asphalt, Carbon fibre, Circuit boards + at least 6000 others Gunna be one hell of a sunset. Those are all useful things that are likely to be kept hanging around. None of them will be burned on a regular basis. Edited January 1 by Satchmo correction 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, Nooks said: Toothpaste, Parachutes, Helmets, Skis, Lifejackets, Guitar Strings, Paint, Sweeteners, Bicycles, Basketballs, Aspirin, Carpet, Antibiotics, Insulin, Heart Valves, Food Preservatives, Ink, Perfume, Contact lenses, Laptops, Piping, Tires, Deodorant, Nylons, Vitamins, Roofing, Nail Polish, Shampoo, Paint, Shoes, Medical Equipment, Batteries (), Asphalt, Carbon fibre, Circuit boards + at least 6000 others Gunna be one hell of a sunset. Where are you getting the idea that petroleum will be abandoned completely? Nobody is advocating for that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, aGENT said: Did I suggest it wasn't used in things other than fuel? By the way, you forgot lubricants. Which is why it hurts so much, BTW.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nooks Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 3 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: Where are you getting the idea that petroleum will be abandoned completely? Nobody is advocating for that. That was exactly my point. aGENT saying “oil whether you like it or not a sunset industry” is a pretty ridiculous claim to make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, Nooks said: That was exactly my point. aGENT saying “oil whether you like it or not a sunset industry” is a pretty ridiculous claim to make Not really. AFAIK, a sunset industry is simply one that is declining. I think @aGENT's statement is accurate. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 BTW: For those that say anything we as Canadians do will be "pointless" unless China fixes their issues, this was posted by @UnkNuk in the Happy Things thread. I think it's especially germane to the CC thread: https://futurecrunch.com/goodnews2023/?utm_source=join1440&utm_medium=email&utm_placement=newsletter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Also, from the same article: 21. Battery technology made some big leaps forward CATL, the world's biggest battery maker, announced a new battery with double the density of Tesla's batteries which it said would go into mass production imminently, Toyota, the world's largest carmaker, claimed it had developed a solid state battery with over 1,000 km of range (and then got trumped by Chinese EV maker NIO which pulled off an actual demo of 1,000 km battery) and Swedish manufacturer Northvolt announced a breakthrough in sodium batteries, an element that's cheaper, more abundant, and more sustainable than lithium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 hours ago, RupertKBD said: Not really. AFAIK, a sunset industry is simply one that is declining. I think @aGENT's statement is accurate. Straight from Cambridge dictionary @Nooks: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/sunset-industry sunset industry noun [ C ] FINANCE & ECONOMICS specializedUK /ˌsʌn.set ˈɪn.də.stri/ US /ˌsʌn.set ˈɪn.də.stri/ Add to word list an industry that has existed for a long time and that is less successful and making less profit than previously: Steel and shipbuilding were designated as sunset industries. Fewer examples Oil and gas extraction, despite its importance to the economy, is seen as a "sunset industry" in the United States. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Here's a $17 billion dollar question. With Canada having like the 3rd largest oil reserve in the world, and with the push to greener alternatives, why on earth are we still importing oil? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJVD Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 6 minutes ago, Heretic said: Here's a $17 billion dollar question. With Canada having like the 3rd largest oil reserve in the world, and with the push to greener alternatives, why on earth are we still importing oil? Geography, local options. Some parts of the country (Quebec, I think) it's easier to bring a tanker in from the Atlantic than ship oil over land into Quebec. Canada still exports 10x more than they import Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Just now, MattJVD said: Geography, local options. Some parts of the country (Quebec, I think) it's easier to bring a tanker in from the Atlantic than ship oil over land into Quebec. Canada still exports 10x more than they import True, it may be easier from a cost point of view, but it's also "easier" to own a gasoline powered vehicle. Is Canada is to be a true leader in the environment, I just think it's time to stop importing oil when we already produce about twice as much as we use - and that difference should increase with the move to greener solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Just now, Heretic said: True, it may be easier from a cost point of view, but it's also "easier" to own a gasoline powered vehicle. Is Canada is to be a true leader in the environment, I just think it's time to stop importing oil when we already produce about twice as much as we use - and that difference should increase with the move to greener solutions. Green is OK by me as long as the cost both real and implied are discussed. The idea that exported oil does not receive a carbon credit by displacing dirty production elsewhere is a head scratcher. I would also like to have a better understanding of what C02 emissions contribute to global warming versus solar flares. The world has experienced periods of cooling and warming that predates human C02 emissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 16 hours ago, aGENT said: By the way, you forgot lubricants. Rookie mistake 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, Heretic said: Here's a $17 billion dollar question. With Canada having like the 3rd largest oil reserve in the world, and with the push to greener alternatives, why on earth are we still importing oil? Type of oil. Most of our refining capacity is built for sweet crude. Our oil reserves are locked in oil sands, requiring either upgrading of the bitumen to something that can be fed into existing refineries, or construction of new refineries to handle the bitumen. Obviously, no company wants to spend the kind of capital necessary to do either - not in this (business) environment. (Pun intended.) So we ship out our lower grade diluted bitumen and import sweet crude. Yay us. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 2 hours ago, Heretic said: Here's a $17 billion dollar question. With Canada having like the 3rd largest oil reserve in the world, and with the push to greener alternatives, why on earth are we still importing oil? Because those eastern bastards can freeze in the dark. https://jacobin.com/2021/10/canada-pierre-trudeau-nep-oil-economic-planning-fossil-fuels Edited January 1 by aGENT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Well it is official. 2023 was the hottest year since records have been recorded. Possibly the hottest in 125 thousand years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5forFighting Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 12/31/2023 at 3:18 PM, aGENT said: First - As others pointed out, nobody is suggesting this happen "overnight". Second - How do you think the oil industry (which whether you like it or not IS a sunset industry) became such an important part of this country's economy? 2035 is overnight. The second part is because we have glorious amounts of the natural resource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 25 minutes ago, 5forFighting said: 2035 is overnight. The second part is because we have glorious amounts of the natural resource. As the dollar signsroll in your eyes. Meanwhile your friends and family wilt in the beating sun and drought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, 5forFighting said: 2035 is overnight. The second part is because we have glorious amounts of the natural resource. -It's more than a decade away. Not overnight. And as another poster (and myself) noted, we still need oil for things other than just fuel. -It's also been gloriously subsidized by tax payers for decades. Just like we should be doing with emerging green tech so it can become an important part of our economy and replace oil in its sunset stage. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 18 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said: Type of oil. Most of our refining capacity is built for sweet crude. Our oil reserves are locked in oil sands, requiring either upgrading of the bitumen to something that can be fed into existing refineries, or construction of new refineries to handle the bitumen. Obviously, no company wants to spend the kind of capital necessary to do either - not in this (business) environment. (Pun intended.) So we ship out our lower grade diluted bitumen and import sweet crude. Yay us. The major refiners in the west, Shell, Suncor and Esso all process upgraded oil sands crude. Not sure what the co-ops run. Maybe in the east they import sweet crude. Irving? Irving used to have the largest refinery in Canada but Shell Scotford might be bigger now. Shipping heavy crude is necessary as domestic demand is already met. The Americans have bid that price down for decades. With the completion of TransMountain Canadian heavy can be exported abroad. The entire western oil complex will benefit as bidding will improve pricing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5forFighting Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 5 hours ago, Boudrias said: The major refiners in the west, Shell, Suncor and Esso all process upgraded oil sands crude. Not sure what the co-ops run. Maybe in the east they import sweet crude. Irving? Irving used to have the largest refinery in Canada but Shell Scotford might be bigger now. Shipping heavy crude is necessary as domestic demand is already met. The Americans have bid that price down for decades. With the completion of TransMountain Canadian heavy can be exported abroad. The entire western oil complex will benefit as bidding will improve pricing. Sounds like someone who knows the industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 6 hours ago, Boudrias said: The major refiners in the west, Shell, Suncor and Esso all process upgraded oil sands crude. Not sure what the co-ops run. Maybe in the east they import sweet crude. Irving? Irving used to have the largest refinery in Canada but Shell Scotford might be bigger now. Shipping heavy crude is necessary as domestic demand is already met. The Americans have bid that price down for decades. With the completion of TransMountain Canadian heavy can be exported abroad. The entire western oil complex will benefit as bidding will improve pricing. So are you in agreement that completing tmx was the right call? Because it wasn't going to happen privately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 20 hours ago, Spur1 said: Well it is official. 2023 was the hottest year since records have been recorded. Possibly the hottest in 125 thousand years. I'd love to know when the last below average temp year occurred. It's likely been a while. I mean, dec 2023 average Temps in most of the US were well above "normal". Nope, Climate change is a hoax. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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