[proposal] - The Vancouver Canucks need a Top Pairing RD on a short-term contract before Willander is ready to step-up [don't make any moves right now]

[aGENT]

14 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Maybe Ilya Lyubushkin would be considered an upgrade on Myers?  (and a half-decent worthy pairing for Hughes?).  My gut feeling says, "no" but who knows.  

 

Overall? probably not, though it's getting closer as Myers gets older. Defensively...probably a slight upgrade. Value for contract...HUGE upgrade. Play style/roster fit...also an arguable upgrade.

 

I've been saying for a while that's the type of trade we should target though... Myers, $1m retained (+a mid pick/lesser prospect) for Lyubushkin...is basically a wash for them personnel wise (a bit more offense vs defense) but saves them almost $2m in actual cash and still gives them an asset to retain on/sell at the TDL (while adding the pick/prospect from us).

 

It saves us $2.25m of cap...which might just be enough to weasel under the cap without using Poolman's LTIR...allowing us to both bank cap space, and utilize Poolman's LTIR at the TDL if we want. While also getting us a younger, likely better fitting player (who we could also likely extend for 2-3 years as a stop gap for Willander).

 

Then Tandem Lyubushkin/Bear with Hughes/3rd pair for the rest of the season. Even better if we manage to pick up a Bjork/Pachal/Coghlan via trade/waivers for now.

 

Alternately, I hope we look at him this summer as a stop gap UFA option there as well.

[Sativika]

On 9/27/2023 at 6:25 AM, canucks curse said:

agree, need top pairing d man for this team to really have a solid shot

 

JR when he spoke nailed it, if everything goes pretty well they are a playoff team.

 

Dumba makes sense even for PHX to move for a gig like Myers who is owed way less and has similar TDL value

but I would maybe go bigger - Dhillon, Pionk, Morrissey, JJ Moser...

 

I'm being hopeful here. Glass 1/2 full type deal. As JR stated above, we will make playoffs. I'm guessing that we'll squeak into a playoff position via a wildcard scenario. Given that everything does go well with minimal affects from JR's said scenarios, we might even get in without having to deal with wildcard races, but that's not really how things go throughout an 82 game season huh. We'll see I guess.

 

On 9/27/2023 at 8:07 AM, -AJ- said:

Honestly, counting on Willander to become the 1RD is a gamble. Even more is assuming a short term deal will be enough time for him to become that player. Even if he becomes that good, it's likely he doesn't make the NHL until at least 20 or 21 and even then, it would likely take until 22 to 24 to hit his potential. Even if he becomes that player, it's probably at least four years away.

 

Of course it's a gamble. Most draft players are. That being said..........................

It's obvious that a legit RD partner to play with Huggy is gonna cost. Especially one that meets management's age profile for our roster. The aforementioned players named above are definitely costly and IMHO not easily acquired. A definite NO on Dumba. 

 

On 10/2/2023 at 3:30 PM, cripplereh said:

Me maybe 3 years ago as Tanev is getting old and I'd rather go with what we have

 

 

I'm sure Tanev, if acquired by us in some way or another, would be a more than useful RD for us. Yea. He is older and has injury history. Otherwise................

Can he play big minutes? Surely he'd be the defacto RD partner for Huggy, but is he able to stay relatively injury free? Maybe sheltered minutes and such would aid in his appearance for a playoff run for us. All hypothetical of course!

[Sativika]

Apologies. Double post!

Edited October 4, 2023 by Sativika
Apologies. Double post.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Curious who you guys think would be an ideal partner for Hughes and players of that mold?

[vermette9]

We gotta go for Brett Pesce sign and trade somehow. Hahaha

He'd be perfect with Hughes.

 

Podz, beuviller, Rathbone and 2024 2 

For Brett Pesce sign 6 years 7.5mil

Edited October 4, 2023 by vermette9

[Ryan Strome]

I say Weegar. Calgary implodes within four weeks of the regular season and weegar wants out. That's our guy.

[Jeremy Hronek]

1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said:

I say Weegar. Calgary implodes within four weeks of the regular season and weegar wants out. That's our guy.

 

What would the asking price be?  

[Jeremy Hronek]

5 hours ago, vermette9 said:

We gotta go for Brett Pesce sign and trade somehow. Hahaha

He'd be perfect with Hughes.

 

Podz, beuviller, Rathbone and 2024 2 

For Brett Pesce sign 6 years 7.5mil

 

I don't think Carolina agrees to that deal.  Podz and Rathbone are almost reclamation projects at this stage (Rathbone basically is a reclamation project), while Beauvillier and a 2nd are pretty underwhelming.  I can't see Carolina agreeing to this.  

[Jeremy Hronek]

6 hours ago, Rusty Shackleford said:

Curious who you guys think would be an ideal partner for Hughes and players of that mold?

 

Realistically, maybe someone like Ryan Pulock from the Islanders? But I can't see the Canucks and Islanders being a good trading partner for this piece.  JT Miller going the other way would rob us of our depth down the middle.   

 

The Canucks need another #3 calibre defenseman (or a "2B" type).

 

Here is what the Canucks currently have in my opinion:

 

1. Hughes

2. Hronek

4. Soucy

5. Cole

5B. Myers

6. Wolanin, 

 

Fans won't like what I'm about to say but I think the only way we get that legit partner for Hughes is by trading Kuzmenko for said piece.  

[Jeremy Hronek]

Updated post #2:  

 

Another idea that I had was the following:

 

1) Trade Andrei Kuzmenko for a #2A or #3 calibre defenseman that can play with Hughes.

 

2) With Kuzmenko gone, take a calculated gamble on guys like Garland, Hoglander, Beauvillier, etc., "stepping up" with more responsibilities and ice-time.  

 

Now obviously, it's not ideal to move Kuzmenko but lets face facts:

 

-Guys like Garland, Boeser, and Beauvillier aren't going to fetch you a right-handed defenseman that wouldn't look out of place on a top pairing.  

 

-The Canucks are in no position to be moving prospects and/or draft picks to land a short-term piece.

 

Mikheyev-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Miller-Garland

PDG-Suter-Beauvillier

Aman-Bluegar-Joshua

 

Hughes-[KuzmenkoReturn]

Soucy-Hronek

Cole-Myers

 

Demko

DeSmith

 

My personal thought to this is that it's a bit risky and that it might stretch us a little too thin up front.....especially if there are injuries. I would have been more comfortable with the above had Podkolzin been ready but now I'm not so sure.  

 

Now having said that, I think the Canucks would potentially be in a stronger position for NEXT season if we made the above deal.  

 

1) We'd have our top 4 defensemen pretty much set.  

2) We can let Myers walk without apology.  

3) For next season, I think there would be a far greater likelihood in guys like Raty and Podkolzin (knock on wood), being ready to make the team than a guy like Willander (who will likely need more time to develop).   

Edited October 5, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[Jeremy Hronek]

5 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Updated post #2:  

 

Another idea that I had was the following:

 

1) Trade Andrei Kuzmenko for a #2A or #3 calibre defenseman that can play with Hughes.

 

2) With Kuzmenko gone, take a calculated gamble on guys like Garland, Hoglander, Beauvillier, etc., "stepping up" with more responsibilities and ice-time.  

 

Now obviously, it's not ideal to move Kuzmenko but lets face facts:

 

-Guys like Garland, Boeser, and Beauvillier aren't going to fetch you a right-handed defenseman that wouldn't look out of place on a top pairing.  

 

-The Canucks are in no position to be moving prospects and/or draft picks to land a short-term piece.

 

Mikheyev-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Miller-Garland

PDG-Suter-Beauvillier

Aman-Bluegar-Joshua

 

Hughes-[KuzmenkoReturn]

Soucy-Hronek

Cole-Myers

 

Demko

DeSmith

 

My personal thought to this is that it's a bit risky and that it might stretch us a little too thin up front.....especially if there are injuries. I would have been more comfortable with the above had Podkolzin been ready but now I'm not so sure.  

 

Now having said that, I think the Canucks would potentially be in a stronger position for NEXT season if we made the above deal.  

 

1) We'd have our top 4 defensemen pretty much set.  

2) We can let Myers walk without apology.  

3) For next season, I think there would be a far greater likelihood in guys like Raty and Podkolzin (knock on wood), being ready to make the team than a guy like Willander (who will likely need more time to develop).   

 

To what extent can both Pettersson and Miller help elevate Boeser, Mikheyev, Beauvillier, Garland, and Hoglander with more increased ice-time and responsibilities in the absence of Kuzmenko?   

 

 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

They are not going to move Kuzmenko to add a defenseman. They acquired Hronek last year, that is the big top pair dman you are looking for. The fact Tocchet will have them spread out over two pairs most of the time doesn't change Hronek as being that top righty.

 

Cole seems to fit well with Hronek, someone will fit with Hughes. 

 

 

[Jeremy Hronek]

19 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

 

 

Cole seems to fit well with Hronek, someone will fit with Hughes. 

 

 

 

But you nailed it right there. Who?  Which someone?  Soucy is a #4 calibre defenseman while Myers at this stage is a 5b or a 6.    

 

Can Hughes elevate these guys?  (as he did with Luke Schenn). Of course he can, but it would be risky..........and again, we are saying all of this under the assumption that all 6 of our top defensemen stay healthy.   If someone gets injured, do you really want to see Cole on your top pairing?  (or the dissimilar Hughes and Hronek playing together with one another?).   

 

So for me?   I'm not sure.....I'm not sure I'm sold.  On the forward side of things, I see it being more likely that guys like Garland, Boeser, Mikheyev, Beauviller, and Hoglander step up in the absence of a Kuzmenko as opposed to any one of our defensemen (outside of Hronek) truly being able to step up and forming a worthy top pairing if someone got injured.  

 

On the prospects side of things, I think guys like Raty and Podkolzin are "closer" to being NHL ready than guys like McWard, Woo, etc.  

 

For me, it's not about someone "fitting" with Hughes.  It's about someone playing alongside Hughes and forming a dominant pairing.  Like a Muzzin to a Drew Doughty.  Or a Seidenberg to a Chara.  

[Jeremy Hronek]

Update:  

 

-Islanders need scoring and could probably use better wingers than Palmieri and Engvall.    

-Pulock (6.1 million cap hit) has been replaced by Dobson as the Top RD.

-Kuzmenko for Pulock would make sense would it not?   

[higgyfan]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Update:  

 

-Islanders need scoring and could probably use better wingers than Palmieri and Engvall.    

-Pulock (6.1 million cap hit) has been replaced by Dobson as the Top RD.

-Kuzmenko for Pulock would make sense would it not?   

 

Losing Kuzy would likely have a negative effect on the team scoring.   Boeser is not a replacement

for Kuzy and the Miller line is not really a 2nd line anymore with Hogs/Miller/Garland.

 

I don't know that Pulock has been replaced by Dobson.  He may not have the offence that Dobson

has, but his defensive game is much better.  Besides, Pulock is signed for another 7yrs for a

similar amount that Hornek will get and Pete's contract will be due as well.

 

I am hopeful that the plan is to re-sign Bear to a 'show me' contract in Dec.  He understands what

is required to support Hughes' game and Quinn likes having him as his righty.  He could share the

role with the 4th (Juulsen? McWard?). 

 

I think the offseason additions to this team have improved the overall defensive game, as well as

the PK.  Adding a solid backup goalie will take the pressure off Demko, which will allow him the

time off he needs.

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Peeke looks like he's 6th or 7th on CBJ's depth chart. They have 3M in cap and Peeke costs 2M. Beau and Garland are 4-5M and they need scoring help. Soucy just went down injured. Simple move for Allvin. Throw them Rathbone or any other bottom fringe NHL defenceman too.

 

If they valued Peeke more he'd be playing more than Boqvist or Blakenberg but he's not and he's not cracking that studded top-4 now. Werenski and Provorov are already logging massive minutes. Don't see what their plan for Peeke is.

 

He's not great, he's no Pulock but he's a mini project, decent physicality and a good replacement for Soucy and then when everyone's healthy look-out. Big upgrade on McWard or Juulsen.

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Peeke looks like he's 6th or 7th on CBJ's depth chart. They have 3M in cap and Peeke costs 2M. Beau and Garland are 4-5M and they need scoring help. Soucy just went down injured. Simple move for Allvin. Throw them Rathbone or any other bottom fringe NHL defenceman too.

 

If they valued Peeke more he'd be playing more than Boqvist or Blakenberg but he's not and he's not cracking that studded top-4 now. Werenski and Provorov are already logging massive minutes. Don't see what their plan for Peeke is.

 

He's not great, he's no Pulock but he's a mini project, decent physicality and a good replacement for Soucy and then when everyone's healthy look-out. Big upgrade on McWard or Juulsen.

Peeke is certainly a winner. He won a Green Jacket last season. 

[Mac]

On 10/4/2023 at 10:19 PM, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

Realistically, maybe someone like Ryan Pulock from the Islanders? But I can't see the Canucks and Islanders being a good trading partner for this piece.  JT Miller going the other way would rob us of our depth down the middle.   

 

The Canucks need another #3 calibre defenseman (or a "2B" type).

 

Here is what the Canucks currently have in my opinion:

 

1. Hughes

2. Hronek

4. Soucy

5. Cole

5B. Myers

6. Wolanin, 

 

Fans won't like what I'm about to say but I think the only way we get that legit partner for Hughes is by trading Kuzmenko for said piece.  

Yeah...no thanks then. Can't gut scoring for D as you are just moving the problem around. Either use prospects and high picks for a trade or wait for UFA. Trading Kuzzy would just be stupid.

[Mac]

On 10/6/2023 at 7:28 AM, Jeremy Hronek said:

Update:  

 

-Islanders need scoring and could probably use better wingers than Palmieri and Engvall.    

-Pulock (6.1 million cap hit) has been replaced by Dobson as the Top RD.

-Kuzmenko for Pulock would make sense would it not?   

Nope...just moving a hole around...does nothing for us. 

 

 

[toochmahgooch]

11 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Peeke looks like he's 6th or 7th on CBJ's depth chart. They have 3M in cap and Peeke costs 2M. Beau and Garland are 4-5M and they need scoring help. Soucy just went down injured. Simple move for Allvin. Throw them Rathbone or any other bottom fringe NHL defenceman too.

 

If they valued Peeke more he'd be playing more than Boqvist or Blakenberg but he's not and he's not cracking that studded top-4 now. Werenski and Provorov are already logging massive minutes. Don't see what their plan for Peeke is.

 

He's not great, he's no Pulock but he's a mini project, decent physicality and a good replacement for Soucy and then when everyone's healthy look-out. Big upgrade on McWard or Juulsen.

Agreed 

[toochmahgooch]

On 10/6/2023 at 7:28 AM, Jeremy Hronek said:

Update:  

 

-Islanders need scoring and could probably use better wingers than Palmieri and Engvall.    

-Pulock (6.1 million cap hit) has been replaced by Dobson as the Top RD.

-Kuzmenko for Pulock would make sense would it not?   

If you said Dobson I'd say yes. Pulock is a big no. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

4 hours ago, toochmahgooch said:

If you said Dobson I'd say yes. Pulock is a big no. 

 

Pettersson for Horvat and Dobson.  

[MeanSeanBean]

On 10/4/2023 at 3:17 PM, Rusty Shackleford said:

Curious who you guys think would be an ideal partner for Hughes and players of that mold?

Chris Tanev is and was the exact ideal partner for Hughes, and we let him walk. Hughes doesn't need some big lug stay at home defensive Dman. Hughes needs a reliable defensive player with good enough skating, puck skills, and first pass that he can get Quinn Hughes the puck to break out as frequently as possible.

Edited October 8, 2023 by MeanSeanBean

[CaptainQuin]

15 hours ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Chris Tanev is and was the exact ideal partner for Hughes, and we let him walk. Hughes doesn't need some big lug stay at home defensive Dman. Hughes needs a reliable defensive player with good enough skating, puck skills, and first pass that he can get Quinn Hughes the puck to break out as frequently as possible.

hronek says “ hold my beer”

[MeanSeanBean]

7 hours ago, CaptainQuin said:

hronek says “ hold my beer”

We'll see. Hronek has the opportunity to be a good partner, but imo not perfect. My best bud is a diehard wing and gave me the 411 on Hronek when we traded him. So far he's lined up with that report. But that report said he's decent defensively and not an ace like we would prefer. 

 

Imo Hronek is better offensively and worse defensively then the ideal Quinn partner.