[proposal] - The Vancouver Canucks need a Top Pairing RD on a short-term contract before Willander is ready to step-up [don't make any moves right now]

[Canucklehead44]

Hughes Hronek 25 minutes

Cole Myers 21 minutes

Soucy McWard 14 minutes

 

Soucy plays a few extra minutes than McWard on the PK.

 

In games where we have a big lead, are down by a lot, or need a shakeup we probably see McWard with Hughes and Soucy with Hronek. For example, against  Calgary Juulsen played with Hughes for the third. 
 

Hughes and Hronek also stay together for 1st PP and 2nd PK. 
 

I think this is what we will end up seeing. 1st unit PK is Cole-Soucy. 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Canucklehead44

[Devron]

Islanders hate offence they won’t do that 

[Jeremy Hronek]

On 10/7/2023 at 3:00 AM, higgyfan said:

 

Losing Kuzy would likely have a negative effect on the team scoring.   Boeser is not a replacement

for Kuzy and the Miller line is not really a 2nd line anymore with Hogs/Miller/Garland.

 

 

 

 

I know it's just a one-game sample, but what if we truly have seen the return of elite Brock Boeser? 

 

Kuzmenko's value is sky-high right now given his production last year.  

 

Would I trade Kuzmenko right now?  Probably not but the idea is intriguing......to me at least.  

 

What defenseman out there could you get for Kuzmenko?   

 

Would Kuzmenko + Myers in "a hockey deal" warrant some interest?  (obviously, we'd have to take cap back our way).   

[Alflives]

Sure looks like Hronek is our much needed top pairing partner for Hughes. What an incredible steal of a trade by Allvin. 

[Bob Long]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Sure looks like Hronek is our much needed top pairing partner for Hughes. What an incredible steal of a trade by Allvin. 

 

But Allvin must be wrong because Yzerman.

[Jeremy Hronek]

31 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Sure looks like Hronek is our much needed top pairing partner for Hughes. What an incredible steal of a trade by Allvin. 

 

Although these guys aren't a good fit on paper, I hope they make it work.  Having any combination of Cole, Myers, and Soucy as a 2nd pairing isn't completely ideal, but it's somewhat passable (probably a 2nd and a half pairing calibre as opposed to a 2nd pairing calibre).  But still - this above set-up is much better than having any one of Soucy, Myers, or Cole playing with Hughes on a top pairing.  

[Alflives]

24 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

But Allvin must be wrong because Yzerman.

Yup. Yzerman allowed his lust for the potential the Islanders’ first would role over as unprotected to 2024 get the best of him.  He literally gave us his best player. He can keep Slo Mo. 

2 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

Although these guys aren't a good fit on paper, I hope they make it work.  Having any combination of Cole, Myers, and Soucy as a 2nd pairing isn't completely ideal, but it's somewhat passable (probably a 2nd and a half pairing calibre as opposed to a 2nd pairing calibre).  But still - this above set-up is much better than having any one of Soucy, Myers, or Cole playing with Hughes on a top pairing.  

Hronek is a good fit (on paper) with Hughes. They are both great players. Great players will mesh well. Hughes can fit with any partner. Hronek can fit with any partner. That’s what great players do. 

[Bob Long]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup. Yzerman allowed his lust for the potential the Islanders’ first would role over as unprotected to 2024 get the best of him.  He literally gave us his best player. He can keep Slo Mo. 

 

we definitely got a good one. 

 

Looking at the stats, Huggy and Hronek played about just under 12  minutes 5 on 5 together, and dominated possession and chances. 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Bob Long

[IBatch]

On 9/27/2023 at 11:07 AM, -AJ- said:

Honestly, counting on Willander to become the 1RD is a gamble. Even more is assuming a short term deal will be enough time for him to become that player. Even if he becomes that good, it's likely he doesn't make the NHL until at least 20 or 21 and even then, it would likely take until 22 to 24 to hit his potential. Even if he becomes that player, it's probably at least four years away.

Yes.   Earliest likely is two full seasons, and if we are lucky maybe see him get some games draft plus two, in the Spring to gauge where he is or to rest the regulars, maybe both.   QHs could have joined us right away but glad he didn't.   Pretty sure Makar had two full years before joining COL, which he also needed as well.    Not worth the gamble of rushing him.    OJs trajectory is more the norm, and of course when he got his chance it didn't work out.  

 

Hronek replaces Myers in the depth chart now, but Myers should be on the third pairing.    Garland and Beau's salary is what Seth Jones is getting, if we want to win now, that's something the team could consider.   Looks like a potential OEL deal but do the right side ... CHI retains  on Jones down to 7 million, takes Beau and Garland on, and we give them our first.   

Edited October 19, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 10/12/2023 at 8:04 AM, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

I know it's just a one-game sample, but what if we truly have seen the return of elite Brock Boeser? 

 

Kuzmenko's value is sky-high right now given his production last year.  

 

Would I trade Kuzmenko right now?  Probably not but the idea is intriguing......to me at least.  

 

What defenseman out there could you get for Kuzmenko?   

 

Would Kuzmenko + Myers in "a hockey deal" warrant some interest?  (obviously, we'd have to take cap back our way).   

Kuzmenko is the obvious player we could use in a hockey trade to improve our D.    
 

Just made a JB proposal above.   Garland, Beau for Seth Jones (CHI retains around 2.5 to bring it down to 7 for us), they get our first.   Another option for them is Garland and Myers, they get a serviceable player in Garland,  Myers is their secret tank weapon (they will need someone to play there) we get Seth Jones,  doesn't cost us anything but no retention either.    He'd have to waive which maybe is possible.   Sure they'd like to get out of that contract. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

22 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Kuzmenko is the obvious player we could use in a hockey trade to improve our D.    
 

Just made a JB proposal above.   Garland, Beau for Seth Jones (CHI retains around 2.5 to bring it down to 7 for us), they get our first.   Another option for them is Garland and Myers, they get a serviceable player in Garland,  Myers is their secret tank weapon (they will need someone to play there) we get Seth Jones,  doesn't cost us anything but no retention either.    He'd have to waive which maybe is possible.   Sure they'd like to get out of that contract. 

 

I was originally onboard with a Seth Jones acquisition but I'm not sure if it would work from a cap perspective given OEL's ugly cap penalty in 2/3 years.  Pettersson will probably get around 11 million AAV from us as well and there's definitely going to be some cap challenges for us.

 

But yes, if the Canucks could make all of the work even with Seth Jones being on the books, then I'd definitely be for it.  

 

Hughes-Jones

Cole-Hronek

 

Would be a monstrous top 4.   

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that we have Willander waiting in the wings and so a lot of our moves will depend on how long we think it will take Willander to become an elite NHL defenseman.  

 

As far as Kuzmenko goes, I think he could be a perfect case for selling high on.  Dude's coming off a 40 goal season and is now playing under a structured Rick Tocchet system.  Kuzmenko should be able to land one that #3 calibre RD to play with Quinn Hughes (which would allow the #2 calibre Hronek to carry the 2nd pairing).   

 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[Hogs and Podz]

52 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Kuzmenko is the obvious player we could use in a hockey trade to improve our D.    
 

Just made a JB proposal above.   Garland, Beau for Seth Jones (CHI retains around 2.5 to bring it down to 7 for us), they get our first.   Another option for them is Garland and Myers, they get a serviceable player in Garland,  Myers is their secret tank weapon (they will need someone to play there) we get Seth Jones,  doesn't cost us anything but no retention either.    He'd have to waive which maybe is possible.   Sure they'd like to get out of that contract. 

Jones is hot garbage at his cap hit... Even at 7 mill.  Don't know what happened to him but, he's not the player he was in his first three seasons playing for blue jackets.

[Jeremy Hronek]

13 minutes ago, Hogs and Podz said:

Jones is hot garbage at his cap hit... Even at 7 mill.  Don't know what happened to him but, he's not the player he was in his first three seasons playing for blue jackets.

Is he though? (hot garbage), or is he just a victim of being on an incredibly bad team?  

 

How would he look playing alongside Quinn Hughes?  How would he look under a more structured Rick Tocchet system?  

[Nucker67]

No way Kuzmenko scores 39 again, or more, but at least he's only being paid $5.5. He also seems like a good team guy, good for marketing etc. His game doesn't seem to be as effective this year though, so my guess is he drops to a paltry 26 goals this year. 

 

Beauvillier and Garland need to go, neither one will hit 20. 

 

 

[Hogs and Podz]

14 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Is he though? (hot garbage), or is he just a victim of being on an incredibly bad team?  

 

How would he look playing alongside Quinn Hughes?  How would he look under a more structured Rick Tocchet system?  

I'll reframe the comment.  Hot garbage wasn't the right descriptor.  Jones was on a trajectory to be a perennial top say, 5-8 defensemen in the NHL.  Very dynamic skater when he came un the league, with size, and an elite shot.  Yes he was traded to the rebuilding blackhawks.... And that's where his game fell off a cliff (but I will say, the previous 2 seasons with Columbus, his numbers were dropping and his plus minus was regressing).  But he just doesn't look good.  At least not like a player even close to being worth his salary.  Very similar to OEL.  OEL is a decent defenseman just not for his salary... Not even close.  Not to mention the games that I've watched, jones seems not engaged and effort level appears low.  Yah, don't think a good fit for a Tocc run team.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Hogs and Podz

[Jeremy Hronek]

57 minutes ago, Nucker67 said:

No way Kuzmenko scores 39 again,

 

 

Which again, makes me wonder if the smart move here would be to sell high on Kuzmenko and get that #2A or #3 calibre d-man to play with Hughes (and then possibly walk away from said player once Willander is ready to take the reigns).   The calculated gamble here would be to bank on guys like Boeser, Hoglander, Beauvillier, Mikheyev, and now "staying" Conor Garland to step up offensively in the absence of Kuzmenko.  Even if they wouldn't be able to completely fill Kuzmenko's shoes, the massive gain on defense would likely outweigh the drop on offence would it not?

 

Hughes-[KuzmenkoReturn]

Cole-Hronek

Soucy-Myers

 

Is a pretty solid defense (top 10?)

 

Demko + DeSmith = Top 10 goaltending

 

Mikheyev-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Miller-Garland

PDG-Suter-Beauviller

Joshua-Bluegar-Studnicka

 

Isn't an ideal forward group but wouldn't exactly be considered a weakness.  

Edited October 19, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[Hogs and Podz]

33 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Mikheyev-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Miller-Garland

PDG-Suter-Beauviller

Joshua-Bluegar-Studnicka

Where's Lafferty?

 

 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Hogs and Podz said:

I'll reframe the comment.  Hot garbage wasn't the right descriptor.  Jones was on a trajectory to be a perennial top say, 5-8 defensemen in the NHL.  Very dynamic skater when he came un the league, with size, and an elite shot.  Yes he was traded to the rebuilding blackhawks.... And that's where his game fell off a cliff (but I will say, the previous 2 seasons with Columbus, his numbers were dropping and his plus minus was regressing).  But he just doesn't look good.  At least not like a player even close to being worth his salary.  Very similar to OEL.  OEL is a decent defenseman just not for his salary... Not even close.  Not to mention the games that I've watched, jones seems not engaged and effort level appears low.  Yah, don't think a good fit for a Tocc run team.

Edler led the league in plus minus 39 at 27 (yikes!!!) in 63 games.   That's what happens when your team sucks and you're up against the best.   Not a great stat without context is it?   Does that make him "hot garbage"?    Not suggesting Seth Jones is the answer.    But the team does need to make a trade.   Also OEL had a better career then Seth Jones at his age ... so yes scary. 

 

And agree with the OP, Kuzmenko (at least last year) might be the trade chip.   

Edited October 19, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Hogs and Podz said:

Where's Lafferty?

 

 

In the washroom? 

[Jeremy Hronek]

11 hours ago, Hogs and Podz said:

Where's Lafferty?

 

 

 

I forgot about him.  

 

Mikheyev-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Miller-Garland

Suter-Lafferty-Beauviller

PDG-Bluegar-Joshua

[J-23]

On 10/4/2023 at 4:11 PM, vermette9 said:

We gotta go for Brett Pesce sign and trade somehow. Hahaha

He'd be perfect with Hughes.

 

Podz, beuviller, Rathbone and 2024 2 

For Brett Pesce sign 6 years 7.5mil

 

I agree but it would probably cost a 1st plus. I would keep Podkolzin for now, his work ethic is there just needs to make better hockey reads. Good start in the AHL as well so far. I am more open to moving Hoglander. 

 

It would be nice to have Pesce and then do something around Garland for Peeke. The right side would look nice. Unfortunately we are in no position to do that. 

 

Hughes - Pesce

Cole - Hronek

Soucy - Peeke

[IBatch]

20 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

I was originally onboard with a Seth Jones acquisition but I'm not sure if it would work from a cap perspective given OEL's ugly cap penalty in 2/3 years.  Pettersson will probably get around 11 million AAV from us as well and there's definitely going to be some cap challenges for us.

 

But yes, if the Canucks could make all of the work even with Seth Jones being on the books, then I'd definitely be for it.  

 

Hughes-Jones

Cole-Hronek

 

Would be a monstrous top 4.   

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that we have Willander waiting in the wings and so a lot of our moves will depend on how long we think it will take Willander to become an elite NHL defenseman.  

 

As far as Kuzmenko goes, I think he could be a perfect case for selling high on.  Dude's coming off a 40 goal season and is now playing under a structured Rick Tocchet system.  Kuzmenko should be able to land one that #3 calibre RD to play with Quinn Hughes (which would allow the #2 calibre Hronek to carry the 2nd pairing).   

 

 

Kuzmenko, might need to go sooner then later if we intend to create a real top four.   Soucy anchors our bottom pairing ... Seattle sucks without him lol.   So far anyways.   Not sure why they wouldn't try and keep him, maybe they did.   QHs of course is legit, guys a star.     QHs Hronek is legit too.   We don't have a second pairing.  Or we have 3 halves of 1,2,3. 

 

OEL.   Is counting his cash but also probably peeved.   Lost 1/3 of his contract because, well he sucked enough to warrant it.   Personally feel that if players sign those type of deals and produce so poorly a team has to consider a buy-out,  that they should bring it down even further to 50%.    

Edited October 20, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, J-23 said:

 

I agree but it would probably cost a 1st plus. I would keep Podkolzin for now, his work ethic is there just needs to make better hockey reads. Good start in the AHL as well so far. I am more open to moving Hoglander. 

 

It would be nice to have Pesce and then do something around Garland for Peeke. The right side would look nice. Unfortunately we are in no position to do that. 

 

Hughes - Pesce

Cole - Hronek

Soucy - Peeke

Funny how that works.   When guys are outperforming their contracts, teams want to keep them.   Kuzmenko is the obvious player worthy of a trade.  Mikheyev is a bit of a wild card for us.     EPs line will get a huge boost when he's back.    All Kuzmenko needs to do is have a hatty or a couple multi-goal games and he's back to a highly desirable commodity, including us.  39 goals is no small thing.   He's getting paid for around 50 points and 25 goals right now ...  

 

This team has needed a couple Pat Quin like trades for awhile now.    Back then he had solid character guys a lot of teams wanted (some were part of the 82 final)...we had Horvat, turned him into Hronek, but nobody else really, until ....    Kuzmenko was like finding a stack of hundreds you hid on yourself after a drunken poker game and found in an old jacket, and saving it for a rainy day.   This and next year sadly is this cores peak cap chance.   We need to pick a lane.   Standing still is a lane.   No risk, no reward though.   A JT Miller like trade right now would do wonders to this team.   A mid range guy who's never had a proper chance, who comes in and well outperforms his cap hit,  we need that badly.   

 

That means targeting a 4-5th D on a deep team.   Around 25/26 under contract for four years likely in the 5.5 million range.   Who comes in and plays as well or better, on a top pairing, then the guys making 8-10 plus.   Not easy, but 500% worth a future first.    

 

Beau and Myers will cover EP, Hronek and a guy like that's wage with cap going up minus OEL...6-7 for Hronek and EP, 5.5 for ??!  

Edited October 20, 2023 by IBatch

[Jeremy Hronek]

What about Kuzmenko for Rasmus Andersson?

 

The Flames already have Weeger and Tanev on their right side D.  

 

With Huberdeau not being able to "get it up" so to speak, combined with Lindholm having to play with gimps like Ruzicka and Coronato on the 1st line, this is where a guy like Kuzmenko could really help them.   

 

Now what's in it for Vancouver?  We get a solid partner for Hughes while allowing Hronek to anchor the 2nd pairing.  

 

We then take a calculated risk that Pettersson can carry guys like Boeser and whomever (Mikheyev) on that 1st line while Miller can carry guys like Garland (who rescinds his trade request now that he'd be given more opportunity with AKs departure), Beauviller, Hoglander, etc. 

 

Mikheyev-Pettersson-Boeser 

Hoglander-Miller-Garland

Beauviller-Suter-Lafferty

PDG-Bluegar-Joshua

 

[One or more of Podkolzin, Lekkerimaki, and Raty possibly ready to step in next season]

 

Hughes-Andersson

Cole-Hronek

Soucy-Friedman

 

[Willander eventually steps into the line-up at some point and eventually becomes a top 4 calibre d-man.......perhaps right around the time that Andersson becomes a UFA].

 

Demko [replaced by Silovs in 3 years or less]

DeSmith

Edited October 23, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[Jeremy Hronek]

On 10/20/2023 at 12:07 AM, Jeremy Hronek said:

Which again, makes me wonder if the smart move here would be to sell high on Kuzmenko and get that #2A or #3 calibre d-man to play with Hughes (and then possibly walk away from said player once Willander is ready to take the reigns).   The calculated gamble here would be to bank on guys like Boeser, Hoglander, Beauvillier, Mikheyev, and now "staying" Conor Garland to step up offensively in the absence of Kuzmenko.  Even if they wouldn't be able to completely fill Kuzmenko's shoes, the massive gain on defense would likely outweigh the drop on offence would it not?

 

Hughes-[KuzmenkoReturn]

Cole-Hronek

Soucy-Myers

 

Is a pretty solid defense (top 10?)

 

Demko + DeSmith = Top 10 goaltending

 

Mikheyev-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Miller-Garland

PDG-Suter-Beauviller

Joshua-Bluegar-Studnicka

 

Isn't an ideal forward group but wouldn't exactly be considered a weakness.  

 

Now - don't get me wrong - I'm often wrong a LOT, but can you imagine if the Canucks had done this at the time when I created this post? (October 20th)