[Rumour] Crosby and Pens working on extension

[Allegend]

Rankings are difficult:  Different eras, longevity, individual awards, team success, etc.

Where do the top defensemen and goalies rank overall? Getting a lot of points is nice, 

but what about being a great two-way player? Where does a player like Dionne, who

never came close to winning a Cup, rank? Top 20? Top 30? Bourque was an outstanding

defenseman, but was only on one Cup-winning team, when he joined a loaded Colorado

team at the end of his career. Is he a top 5 defensemen? Probably. Top 30 player overall?

Maybe.

[Bob Long]

Sid's been a force and a leader for a long time. Not sure about the placement in some kind of all time list, but if he didn't make the top 10 all time I don't know who else would. 

 

He's still the modern standard for C's. 

[Coconuts]

34 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

Sid's been a force and a leader for a long time. Not sure about the placement in some kind of all time list, but if he didn't make the top 10 all time I don't know who else would. 

 

He's still the modern standard for C's. 

 

Ranking across eras is hard, and opinions and rankings are pretty subjective, but it's hard to argue that he's not the best overall player to have their career began this century.

 

I'd personally have him in the top 5. Durability plays a role in rankings, but what Crosby's accomplished when you consider that he lost much of the 10-11, 11-12, and 12-13 seasons due to injury during what would likely have been some of his peak years is nuts. Even if you averaged out the numbers of his games played for his previous Pens seasons he'd probably still be sitting at about 1800ish points right now if you were to err on the conservative side. 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

 

Ranking across eras is hard, and opinions and rankings are pretty subjective, but it's hard to argue that he's not the best overall player to have their career began this century.

 

I'd personally have him in the top 5. Durability plays a role in rankings, but what Crosby's accomplished when you consider that he lost much of the 10-11, 11-12, and 12-13 seasons due to injury during what would likely have been some of his peak years is nuts. Even if you averaged out the numbers of his games played for his previous Pens seasons he'd probably still be sitting at about 1800ish points right now if you were to err on the conservative side. 

 

yep, when you see what Sid dealt with, the cheap shots, the head shots, etc. it just lessens my opinion of guys like McDavid who have never dealt with the level of physical push back Sid worked through. 

 

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

yep, when you see what Sid dealt with, the cheap shots, the head shots, etc. it just lessens my opinion of guys like McDavid who have never dealt with the level of physical push back Sid worked through. 

 

 

Hard to say where McDavid finishes, but he's also benefitted from playing during a period that has seen a resurgence of offense in general 

 

Crosby (and Ovi) had to play through some of the muck of the 2000's, and through the transition phase that was the 2010's 

 

It wasn't the high scoring 80's, nor was it the dead puck 90's, but the 2000's and earlier 2010's still held some similarities to those eras imo 

 

The game has changed quite a bit since Sid and Ovi broke into the league 

[Bob Long]

Just now, Coconuts said:

 

Hard to say where McDavid finishes, but he's also benefitted from playing during a period that has seen a resurgence of offense in general 

 

Crosby (and Ovi) had to play through some of the muck of the 2000's, and through the transition phase that was the 2010's 

 

It wasn't the high scoring 80's, nor was it the dead puck 90's, but the 2000's and earlier 2010's still held some similarities to those eras imo 

 

The game has changed quite a bit since Sid and Ovi broke into the league 

 

oh totally. At that time we had guys like Matt Cooke running around dishing out harm in those days, that kind of crap would never go over today. 

 

The Sedins had to find their way through being pushed around at this time too. I wonder what they'd be if they started today, maybe it was that toughness that molded them into what they were? it certainly did Sid. 

 

[Coconuts]

9 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

oh totally. At that time we had guys like Matt Cooke running around dishing out harm in those days, that kind of crap would never go over today. 

 

The Sedins had to find their way through being pushed around at this time too. I wonder what they'd be if they started today, maybe it was that toughness that molded them into what they were? it certainly did Sid. 

 

 

Aye. I know we've had this conversation before, but I genuinely view the early 2010's Kings and Bruins as old school hockey's last gasp. Hell, the Blues team that won it all could be considered a throwback. 

 

That late 2000's/early 2010's period was largely the last hurrah for enforcer type players for example. Fighting has remained part of the game, but generally become less of a factor as time has gone on. We can argue til we're blue in the face about the disciplinary bit regularly getting it wrong, dirty hits being in the game and so on, but there aren't as many cheap shot artists anymore. Guys like Cooke, they aren't as big a factor now as they were then. Crosby had to play through all that, Ovi too, the younger and prime aged stars of today haven't played through that sort of regular season hockey. 

 

Crosby's arguably the most talented grinder ever, I think some of that stems from having entered the league when he did, but also how the minor leagues he played in were influenced by what kind of leagues the NHL and AHL were when he was a kid/teenager as well. Same can probably be said of the twins, they had to be tough, they played most of the 2000's as players with primarily offense geared skill sets.

 

If they'd began their careers when McDavid did their numbers would likely be bigger on a consistent basis. The game has changed and so has training, equipment, stats, analytics, how the game is reffed, and so on. I think they'd benefit from a less punishing league for sure. I think their hockey IQ's would still have them towards the top of the league, their hockey sense was off the charts. 

Edited July 8 by Coconuts

[Bob Long]

14 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Aye. I know we've had this conversation before, but I genuinely view the early 2010's Kings and Bruins as old school hockey's last gasp. Hell, the Blues team that won it all could be considered a throwback. 

 

yep I'd agree with that 

 

14 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

That late 2000's/early 2010's period was largely the last hurrah for enforcer type players for example. Fighting has remained part of the game, but generally become less of a factor as time has gone on. We can argue til we're blue in the face about the disciplinary bit regularly getting it wrong, dirty hits being in the game and so on, but there aren't as many cheap shot artists anymore. Guys like Cooke, they aren't as big a factor now as they were then. Crosby had to play through all that, Ovi too, the younger and prime aged stars of today haven't played through that sort of regular season hockey. 

 

Crosby's arguably the most talented grinder ever, I think some of that stems from having entered the league when he did, but also how the minor leagues he played in were influenced by what kind of leagues the NHL and AHL were when he was a kid/teenager as well. Same can probably be said of the twins, they had to be tough, they played most of the 2000's as players with primarily offense geared skill sets.

 

If they'd began their careers when McDavid did their numbers would likely be bigger on a consistent basis. The game has changed and so has training, equipment, stats, analytics, how the game is reffed, and so on. I think they'd benefit from a less punishing league for sure. I think their hockey IQ's would still have them towards the top of the league, their hockey sense was off the charts. 

 

the Sedins are such rare specimens, truly driven guys who also seem to be genuinely nice people. Sid doesn't strike me as a guy who has a massive ego either. 

 

MacKinnon seems like a bit more full of himself, but he's another one I'd still put in the good guy camp. 

 

[Coconuts]

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

yep I'd agree with that 

 

 

the Sedins are such rare specimens, truly driven guys who also seem to be genuinely nice people. Sid doesn't strike me as a guy who has a massive ego either. 

 

MacKinnon seems like a bit more full of himself, but he's another one I'd still put in the good guy camp. 

 

 

I'd agree on Mac, but I also think the list of players more driven to succeed than him around the league is probably pretty small. He's basically his generation's Crosby when it comes to being a fitness/health nut. 

 

The twins were like that too, their fitness was legendary in the same sense way Chara's was, and I'm spitballing but I'd venture that fitness and diet have been increasingly taken more seriously over the last 20-25 years. Gary Roberts is a guy who stands out as far as that shift goes. 

 

Sid's never struck me as an egomaniac, I wouldn't even say Nate strikes me that way. What really impresses me about Mac is his drive, he genuinely wants to be the best, which makes his friendship with Sid all the more neat, it's quite obvious that MacKinnon thinks the world of Crosby. 

 

The twin's fitness still holds up today, just differently. They're still nuts.

 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/sedins-finish-ahead-canucks-prospect-grouse-grind

 

 

[Dizzle]

3 hours ago, Integra250 said:

So he's not coming to Vancouver???

 

Obvious sign and trade...

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

2 hours ago, -AJ- said:

He turns 37 this summer and will be 38 when his extension takes effect (assuming he gets one).

 

...so you're saying he'll lobby the league to waive the 8 year max term requirement for him, and allow him to sign a 49-year extension at 8.7 million per year so that he'll play until he's 87, ja?  

[Warhippy]

Crosby has missed around 4.48 total seasons in his career due to injury "covid" etc

 

At an average of around 92 points per season that's around 412 points estimated he has not banked for his play which would put him over 2000 total points in his career.  He should be third to only Jagr who basically sluffed off 5+ total seasons in the NHL due to playing in europe and lockouts and the great one himself.

 

While people called him a cry baby etc, the guy has arguably been one of the most complete centers in our time missing only a single Selke to complete his award collection.

 

Him finishing his career in Pittsburgh is the right thing to do.  Only 127 points behind Mario for 8th all time and 1st all time as a Penguin

Edited July 8 by Warhippy

[Salacious Crumb]

6 hours ago, Diamonds said:

Yep, clearly a very superstitious guy. Born in '87, wears 87, has pretty much always made 8.7M.

Born 8/7/87. August 7, 1987

[wai_lai416]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Same as what we did with the Sedins.  Once Crosby retires, Pittsburgh will go into a full rebuild.  They will be like Chicago.  Probably get the #1 overall pick at some point and the next Crosby...

sure but the sedins didn't really hamper the canucks that much in terms of getting high picks lol they drafted 6 23 5 and 5? and considering the last year we were 2nd worse and fell 2 spot.. i doubt pittsburgh as long as crosby is playing will be able to draft anywhere in the top 10.. 2 of those picks from the latter sedin years are at least still part of the core

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Crosby has missed around 4.48 total seasons in his career due to injury "covid" etc

 

At an average of around 92 points per season that's around 412 points estimated he has not banked for his play which would put him over 2000 total points in his career.  He should be third to only Jagr who basically sluffed off 5+ total seasons in the NHL due to playing in europe and lockouts and the great one himself.

 

While people called him a cry baby etc, the guy has arguably been one of the most complete centers in our time missing only a single Selke to complete his award collection.

 

Him finishing his career in Pittsburgh is the right thing to do.  Only 127 points behind Mario for 8th all time and 1st all time as a Penguin

You can't do injuries.   If we did that every player gets adjusted.  Sakic missed 1.5  years to lockout.   Yzerman half a season.    Right now if he retired after 19 seasons, would have him somewhere with them.    He didn't have to do dead puck era either.   Sakic with over 100 points at 37, post lockout when Sid was just starting.    Think we can not get too far ahead of ourselves.   

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

sure but the sedins didn't really hamper the canucks that much in terms of getting high picks lol they drafted 6 23 5 and 5? and considering the last year we were 2nd worse and fell 2 spot.. i doubt pittsburgh as long as crosby is playing will be able to draft anywhere in the top 10.. 2 of those picks from the latter sedin years are at least still part of the core

Pretty sure we had the 2 overall pick in the 2017 draft and fell to 5. I think we fell 2 spots in 2016 as well, from 3 to 5. 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

I'd agree on Mac, but I also think the list of players more driven to succeed than him around the league is probably pretty small. He's basically his generation's Crosby when it comes to being a fitness/health nut. 

 

The twins were like that too, their fitness was legendary in the same sense way Chara's was, and I'm spitballing but I'd venture that fitness and diet have been increasingly taken more seriously over the last 20-25 years. Gary Roberts is a guy who stands out as far as that shift goes. 

 

Sid's never struck me as an egomaniac, I wouldn't even say Nate strikes me that way. What really impresses me about Mac is his drive, he genuinely wants to be the best, which makes his friendship with Sid all the more neat, it's quite obvious that MacKinnon thinks the world of Crosby. 

 

The twin's fitness still holds up today, just differently. They're still nuts.

 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/sedins-finish-ahead-canucks-prospect-grouse-grind

 

 

If fitness and diet is so much better, why did Tochett call our guys out?   That's baloney. 

[wai_lai416]

41 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Pretty sure we had the 2 overall pick in the 2017 draft and fell to 5. I think we fell 2 spots in 2016 as well, from 3 to 5. 

ya something like that as old as the penguins are i don't think they'll ever be a lottery team as long as crosby is there.. similar situation but not quite coz we were lottery team with the sedins haha

[DeNiro]

44 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Pretty sure we had the 2 overall pick in the 2017 draft and fell to 5. I think we fell 2 spots in 2016 as well, from 3 to 5. 

The 2016 draft was always a doomed draft for us.

 

Had we kept the third spot we probably would have traded it to Montreal for Subban.
 

Had we moved back to 4 we probably would have taken the consensus pick and taken Puljujarvi. 

 

And at 5 we all know how they valued Juolevi.

[Elias Pettersson]

21 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

The 2016 draft was always a doomed draft for us.

 

Had we kept the third spot we probably would have traded it to Montreal for Subban.
 

Had we moved back to 4 we probably would have taken the consensus pick and taken Puljujarvi. 

 

And at 5 we all know how they valued Juolevi.

 

We should have moved down to 6 so that Benning was forced to take Tkachuk...

[Provost]

9 hours ago, Coconuts said:

As if he was ever gonna play anywhere else

 

 

I will wait to see the actual deal.  Pens fans don’t seem to believe this report by and large as he apparently has a history of pulling stuff out of his ass.

[DeNiro]

22 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

We should have moved down to 6 so that Benning was forced to take Tkachuk...

Flames still take Tkachuk at 5 and we take Juolevi at 6.

 

Benning gets a 2nd round pick out of the deal that he trades for a 34 year old bottom 6 forward…

[PeteyBoeser]

For 87 years 

[AnthonyG]

13 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

We should have moved down to 6 so that Benning was forced to take Tkachuk...

Yes!!! then Tkachuk comes in a has a direct impact on the standings like he did in Calgary. Then we drop in the 2017 draft 10 spots like Calgary did and we take Erik Brannstrom instead of Pettersson and then your user name is Erik Brannstrom instead of Elias Pettersson (thank god) then the following year we either trade our picks away to get whoever instead of keeping our pick and not getting Hughes or we keep our picks and draft 11th because Calgary went up in the draft 4 spots from the previous season ZOMG THEY WERE CLIMBING UP THATS AMAZING THEY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE TRUE CUP CONTENDERS IN NO TIME!! So after drafting 15th we would then draft 11th in 2018 which funny enough is directly in the middle of Hughes at 7, Denisenko at 15 and we would take Wahlstrom at 11th and have the greatest blue line of all time ZOMG and then to complete our forward group we would trade Tkachuk because he tells us to and we land Huberdeau and Weegar and our blue line yet again GETS BETTER ZOMG THIS IS SO EXCITING!!! So then we sign Huberdeau to that 11mil deal, better yet we sign him to that Loui Eriksson 6x6 deal during rebuilding years that did nothing to hurt our far from any realistic chance hopes of winning a cup and then we watch Florida win the cup and we’re complete!! We did it!! We used 20/20 vision successfully!! Holy fuck we are soooooo sooooooooo smrt!

 

 

seriously move on it’s been nearly 10 fucking years. And the best part of not picking Juolei IS THAT OUR CORE IS STILL INTACT AND NOW CONTENDING, how is Calgary doin???? How’d that Tkachuk selection work out??? How far have they been in the playoffs?

Edited July 9 by AnthonyG

[NewbieCanuckFan]

13 hours ago, DeNiro said:

The 2016 draft was always a doomed draft for us.

 

Had we kept the third spot we probably would have traded it to Montreal for Subban.
 

Had we moved back to 4 we probably would have taken the consensus pick and taken Puljujarvi. 

 

And at 5 we all know how they valued Juolevi.

Seems as silly to dwell too long on the many Jim Benning errors (like "Mike Gillis" destroyed the franchise for X years).  Time to move on imho.  The Vancouver Canucks are far, far, far better off today with neither of those two involved with the franchise anymore.